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Old 28th Jul 2021, 21:59
  #6601 (permalink)  
 
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Simple, if you’re in a car crash, they wheel the most recent COVID sick anti-Vaxer into the car park and you take their bed.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 22:07
  #6602 (permalink)  
 
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People who were able to get vaccinated but refused should get nothing but palliative care.

How many small businesses need to fail because some idiots refuse to get vaccinated? I’m through playing with these morons: their choice, their consequences.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 22:27
  #6603 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aviation_enthus
Why can’t this be dealt with like the flu vaccine?

A new version of the flu vaccine is currently released every 6 months to coincide with the Northern and Southern Hemisphere winters. No reason why a COVID booster couldn’t be released along the same time frame in the future.
Well there is a reason, we might not be able to do it, That is over simplifying the miracle of modern science, just a tad.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 22:44
  #6604 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Mick, I will choose one just to show how wrong you are.



Try 1142 road deaths in the last twelve months. Double your figure. Should we lock down cars to prevent deaths?

https://www.bitre.gov.au/publication...thly_bulletins
Careful Icarus!

I will go back to your question just to show you that I answered it correctly and accurately. Your question was

Originally Posted by Icarus2001
... how many people have died this year from flu, diabetes, car crashes, suicides, allergies?

This year. Not the past twelve months, this year. And the numbers that I provided were for year to date, this year.

Given that we're a bit past halfway through the current year, little wonder that the figure I gave you is roughly half the rolling 12 month total.


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Old 28th Jul 2021, 22:57
  #6605 (permalink)  
 
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There is a tipping point when Australians will want to get vaccinated . Countries that where hit hard and people experienced family and friends struggle on ventilators have %80+ vaccination rates . Poor countries having seen family die in hospital hallways will accept any type of vaccination . Australia being the lucky country we don’t have these motivators to assist our vaccination uptake . Australians love houses so maybe raffle a house with views of Sydney harbour , to enter you must be vaccinated . Vaccine passports , without it , no restaurants, no travel , no beaches and no footy .
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 22:58
  #6606 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
So, on your estimates of the 'financial' and 'non-financials' back then were: $450 billion 'spent' by governments collectively and $40 billion in 'non-financial costs'.

What does 40,000 lives saved (to go the extremes of the estimate) times $5 million add up to? Maybe we're mixing US billions with Australian billions?
40,000 x $5,000,000 = $200,000,000,000. That number, 200 with nine zeroes after it, would be called $200 billion regardless of whether you were in the US or Australia. OECD, World Bank, IMF, EU, US Treasury, HM Treasury, etc all use the convention that 1 billion is 1000 million or a 1 with nine zeroes after it.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:09
  #6607 (permalink)  
 
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Mick, nice wriggle, financial year, calendar year or this last year. So are we locking down cars?
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:22
  #6608 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Mick, nice wriggle, financial year, calendar year or this last year. ...
Wriggle? How about just basic written comprehension. The wonderful thing about the English language is its capacity for precision and concision. You asked a question about this year, I answered it - drawing directly from the data that is downloadable from the BITRE website you posted a link to (it's Table 1.2 field 018 for reference) - and then you launched on me to show that I was wrong. I wasn't.

It would appear that having the humility to say, 'Oops, my mistake', is a rare commodity around here.

Originally Posted by Icarus2001
So are we locking down cars?
Well, I make a habit of locking mine. You do you.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:24
  #6609 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105
40,000 x $5,000,000 = $200,000,000,000. That number, 200 with nine zeroes after it, would be called $200 billion regardless of whether you were in the US or Australia. OECD, World Bank, IMF, EU, US Treasury, HM Treasury, etc all use the convention that 1 billion is 1000 million or a 1 with nine zeroes after it.
Rightyho then...

On your figures, we're paying $490 billion in 'real' costs (I reckon at $40 billion you're still underestimating the value of the non-financial costs) in order to save $200 billion (the value of 40,000 'statistical' lives, with the 40,000 being an over-estimate). I reckon it's closer to $600 billion 'spent' to save $100 billion in lives. And that $490 or $600 billion or whatever it happens to be now, is increasing by 100s of millions every DAY half the country's population is locked down.

Sooner or later...

("concision"? And you often don't 'get' sarcasm. Hmmm. Methinks you're not from 'around here'.)
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:35
  #6610 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torukmacto
There is a tipping point when Australians will want to get vaccinated . Countries that where hit hard and people experienced family and friends struggle on ventilators have %80+ vaccination rates . Poor countries having seen family die in hospital hallways will accept any type of vaccination . Australia being the lucky country we don’t have these motivators to assist our vaccination uptake . Australians love houses so maybe raffle a house with views of Sydney harbour , to enter you must be vaccinated . Vaccine passports , without it , no restaurants, no travel , no beaches and no footy .
Hell yeah. I can hardly wait to move to Sydney.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:40
  #6611 (permalink)  
 
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Not comparing apples with apples but ... as has been mentioned many times before, perhaps the reason for lockdowns is to ‘save’ the health system (and lives in general) not just from Covid.

Japans hospital system is allegedly close to ‘collapse’

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...pics/100323570
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:42
  #6612 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WingNut60
Hell yeah. I can hardly wait to move to Sydney.
I see you're from Indonesia. Are you there now, how are you getting along, the stats are not looking pleasant over there. My thoughts are with Indonesia.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:43
  #6613 (permalink)  
 
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Reported in the Australian, seems to be no explanation as to why given NSW has gone no where near as hard as DA lockdown methods. Also reported the C-19 vaccine (which one is not reported) is definitely working and doing as expected. Out of 2500 cases only 6 in aged care reported out of those 6 there is 5 vaccinated and have not reported any serious illness to the virus.


STEPHEN LUNN2 HOURS AGO | 7.50AMSydney spread slower than Melbourne, despite Delta

Sydney’s growth of new Covid-19 infections is running at a little more than half of that experienced by Melbourne last year at the same stage of its outbreak despite the fact NSW is grappling with a more infectious strain.

Victoria’s seven-day average of new Covid-19 cases stood at 10.1 on June 17 last year. By July 19 last year the seven day average of new Covid-19 infections had ballooned to 287.1.

Over the same 33-day period Sydney’s seven-day average of new cases has risen from 12.6 on June 26, when a lockdown was imposed on four Sydney local government areas, to 151.7 on Wednesday when Gladys Berejiklian extended Greater Sydney’s lockdown for 28 days.

Over the same comparable period 19 people had died in Victoria compared with 11 in Sydney.

The rate of growth in the two outbreaks was broadly similar for the first three weeks. Victoria’s seven-day moving average passed 100 on day 21 (102.3 on July 7, last year). While Sydney’s seven-day average of new cases jumped into the nineties on day 22 (96 on July 17) and stayed in the nineties until day 27, July 22.

Once Melbourne’s seven-day average had passed 100 it doubled over the next six days.

Sydney’s seven-day moving average has gone up by about 50 per cent in the six days since it passed a seven-day average of new cases of 100 – from 105 on July 22 to 151 on Wednesday
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 23:47
  #6614 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Rightyho then...

On your figures, we're paying $490 billion in 'real' costs (I reckon at $40 billion you're still underestimating the value of the non-financial costs) in order to save $200 billion (the value of 40,000 'statistical' lives, with the 40,000 being an over-estimate). I reckon it's closer to $600 billion 'spent' to save $100 billion in lives. And that $490 or $600 billion or whatever it happens to be now, is increasing by 100s of millions every DAY half the country's population is locked down.

Sooner or later...

("concision"? And you often don't 'get' sarcasm. Hmmm. Methinks you're not from 'around here'.)
$450 billion, $600 billion - call it $525 as an estimate with ±15 percent error bars. Is the spend more than the value of statistical life figure? Yes, most assuredly. Is it 'orders of magnitude higher'? No, most assuredly not.

Looking ahead, the data out of the UK (still somewhat early days) and Israel seems to be illustrating that 55-60 percent of the population fully vaccinated gets you out of the woods, relatively. We should hit that around early November.
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 00:08
  #6615 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105
$450 billion, $600 billion - call it $525 as an estimate with ±15 percent error bars. Is the spend more than the value of statistical life figure? Yes, most assuredly. Is it 'orders of magnitude higher'? No, most assuredly not.

Looking ahead, the data out of the UK (still somewhat early days) and Israel seems to be illustrating that 55-60 percent of the population fully vaccinated gets you out of the woods, relatively. We should hit that around early November.

except Gladys has very very foolishly stated 80% which we won’t get to until this time next year if then. There will be a plateauing once we get to around 65%.

so she needs to stfu about 80% seeing as no major country is near that now and many are opening up already like the uk at around 60%. I think scomo when he mentions Christmas is on the money. Like you said we should be around 65% by then , 55% or 60 sometime in November
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 00:15
  #6616 (permalink)  
 
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As of this morning the UK has 88.1% of all adults with their first vaccination and 71.1% have had both - but they opened up with (I think) 80 & 66%-ish. Source

I would be very surprised to see Australia, not just NSW, get close to 80% in any reasonable timeframe, both due to vaccine hesitancy and Scotty's mishandling of the rollout.
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 00:32
  #6617 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator
As of this morning the UK has 88.1% of all adults with their first vaccination and 71.1% have had both - but they opened up with (I think) 80 & 66%-ish. Source

I would be very surprised to see Australia, not just NSW, get close to 80% in any reasonable timeframe, both due to vaccine hesitancy and Scotty's mishandling of the rollout.
On the basis that Joe and Joanne Six-pack aren't already befuddled enough, when it comes to vaccination rates and targets there are, of course, at least two different measures - vaccinations per total population and vaccinations per adult population. 80 percent of the adult population is roughly 60 percent of the total population. I suspect that Gladys was talking about 80 percent of the adult population, which should be doable before year end.
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 00:33
  #6618 (permalink)  
 
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As Sco Mo keeps saying on numerous occasion even as late as this morning “high vaccination rates won’t stop lockdowns” so it does not matter whether 70% 80% or 90% is reached lockdowns will o our moving forward.

Also strong word over 200 will be announced for NSW today, lucky construction workers are allowed back on site from Saturday they have been hit extremely hard not being able to work for 14 days.
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 00:41
  #6619 (permalink)  
 
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Out of today's Oz, vaccine hesitancy data out of the Melbourne Institute ...


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Old 29th Jul 2021, 00:55
  #6620 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
I see you're from Indonesia. Are you there now, how are you getting along, the stats are not looking pleasant over there. My thoughts are with Indonesia.
No. I'm back in Perth.
Still have friends and family in Indonesia.

Outer areas (lower population) are still half liveable. Larger cities, particularly on Java and Bali, are in a terrible position.
I have a niece who is a doctor at a large hospital in Bali. Her accounts are frightening; while at the same time doing her best to conceal her own fear.

She has mentioned a broad feeling that the Sinovac vaccine is proving to be of little use.
Personally, from a long residency in the country, I would suspect that the biggest problem with the vaccine would be knowing whether you had actually been vaccinated at all.

Of course, as with other less-developed countries, the biggest problem with measures to limit social inter-action and movements is that, without the ability to earn money for sustenance, people will die of starvation, not Covid.



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