Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 16th Nov 2019, 09:01
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,091
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post


Cry me a river - paid leave over Xmas. Whatever their salary, it was bargained for - and remunerated according to their role. If they want to earn what a pilot does? Become a pilot.
My surgeon mate is on $750K - don’t begrudge him at all - I’m not a surgeon..

As for the 2% - Qantas Grouo all took some pay freezes previously. Time to pay up while “the getting is good”.

Bring on the fight - enough is enough.

Good luck and stay strong.



Exactly.

As for the argument that We can’t pay pilots more, because then all the staff would want more, What a shallow cynical argument that is.

Bravo Arthur D, it’s clowns like you who continue to devalue our profession.

Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 16th Nov 2019 at 09:39.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2019, 21:38
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 5
When can Jetstar, QF Shorthaul and QF Longhaul take PIA?
Predator Jock is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 00:36
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Predator Jock View Post
When can Jetstar, QF Shorthaul and QF Longhaul take PIA?
QF pilots aren't parties to the agreement so they won't be able to participate in any protected industrial action.

AFAP must first apply to the FWC for a protected action ballot order. I don't know if that's been started yet but that process won't happen overnight.

Once granted, AFAP need to hold a ballot of members to determine if they are in favour of taking industrial action. I imagine that AFAP will have some rules about notice to members for running ballots so there's likely to be a delay there. The Australian Electoral Commission normally runs those ballots so that's not going to happen overnight either.

If the ballot is successful AFAP then need to give JQ a minimum of three business days notice of their intentions.

Long story short, it'll be a minimum of a few weeks till anyone can down tools.
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 03:51
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Airborne
Posts: 4
okay boomer
[/QUOTE]

This new saying has got to be one of the dumbest comments to make in a debate. It is pretty arrogant to disregard an entire generation due to their age. Labor tried it earlier this year and lost an election because of it.

And no, Iím not a boomer.
duffman_84 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 06:37
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by Predator Jock View Post
When can Jetstar, QF Shorthaul and QF Longhaul take PIA?

In


12345678
maggot is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 11:41
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: AYQ
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by duffman_84 View Post
This new saying has got to be one of the dumbest comments to make in a debate. It is pretty arrogant to disregard an entire generation due to their age. Labor tried it earlier this year and lost an election because of it.

And no, Iím not a boomer.
It was literally in response to someone dismissing them because of their age, so quite fitting in context.

What was this thread about again?
ajax58 is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2019, 04:57
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Cuckoos nest
Posts: 10
I didnít dismiss them because of their age. I dismissed them because of their their childish comments. That they came from a young person just happened to explain why they were childish comments.

For a sledge to work there has to be some truth to it. Calling someone a boomer when theyíre not is a poor sledging attempt.
A little birdie is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2019, 05:29
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 35
Who called who what is irrelevant get over it.
Ragnor is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 06:09
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Where it don't rain
Posts: 44
I wonder why Jetstar did not object to the AFAPís Fair Work application for a PIA ballot?
rowdy trousers is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 08:05
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 158
I wonder why Jetstar did not object to the AFAPís Fair Work application for a PIA ballot?
Because they are not concerned by it. They will already have contigency plans in place for whatever is agreed to. Remember that all that has happened is that the AFAP has been given legal approval to have a ballot conducted of what form the PIA is to take. If the JQ AFAP pilots think that they will be walking off the job and teaching JQ Management a lesson then they don't understand that the current industrial system is skewed entirely in managements favour. All that will happen at the end of the PIA will be the union reps will sit down with the company reps and the first word spoken will be "Right where were we?"
Lookleft is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 10:29
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,623
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Because they are not concerned by it. They will already have contigency plans in place for whatever is agreed to. Remember that all that has happened is that the AFAP has been given legal approval to have a ballot conducted of what form the PIA is to take. If the JQ AFAP pilots think that they will be walking off the job and teaching JQ Management a lesson then they don't understand that the current industrial system is skewed entirely in managements favour. All that will happen at the end of the PIA will be the union reps will sit down with the company reps and the first word spoken will be "Right where were we?"
Real wages falling in western economies is not an accident.

Fair Work is fair in name only..

Kabuki theatre the lot of it.
Rated De is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 22:11
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 166
With PIA approved by FWA, Jetstar will probably not want to continue talking with the AFAP until the action is either over or cancelled beforehand. I believe PIA voting requirements mean it could get up with a relatively small number of yes votes.
Arctaurus is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 00:57
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ballarat
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Because they are not concerned by it. They will already have contigency plans in place for whatever is agreed to. Remember that all that has happened is that the AFAP has been given legal approval to have a ballot conducted of what form the PIA is to take. If the JQ AFAP pilots think that they will be walking off the job and teaching JQ Management a lesson then they don't understand that the current industrial system is skewed entirely in managements favour. All that will happen at the end of the PIA will be the union reps will sit down with the company reps and the first word spoken will be "Right where were we?"
So your point is what, give up and take a paycut for offering even more efficiencies, greater capability's and accepting even further responsibility? All whilst management pays themselves further record amounts?

PIA isn't about 'teaching JQ a lesson'. Its about trying to beat some common sense into a set of very recalcitrant executives who view JQ as their own personal ATM machine, pocketing vast sums of money previously earned by the people who do the actual work. The effects of the payfreeze will be felt compounding for the rest of peoples careers, and in the meantime crew are expected to operate the largest narrow body fleet of any airline in the country, most passengers, longest sectors, most sectors, fewest days off and highest approach capability (soon to include 0.1 RNP) , all for the lowest pay by a mile.

What is being asked for is hardly unreasonable. Indeed, should the company offer what they have been running around telling the media in a blatantly dishonest smear campaign, ie, 305k for 75 hours a month, the whole EBA would be signed within a week.
Paddleboat is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 01:43
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OZZZZZZZZZZZ
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
All that will happen at the end of the PIA will be the union reps will sit down with the company reps and the first word spoken will be "Right where were we?"
Well youíre clearly an AIPA member!

What you said is exactly what DIDNT happen in the last round.
Gear in transit is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 01:54
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 649
Well thatís exactly it. I thought that was going to play out at Tiger. How we were very wrong.

They were hostile and didnít give in at all to Tiger. I had not seen this sort of behaviour before. I think itís a fair statement that Pilots at the low cost carriers in this country have been taken for a ride of late. There was no negotiation. What they asked for from the get go was essentially given to them, albeit a few minor tweaks as expected. It was very simple. This is what we are after, if not itís PIA. This occurred each meeting. I think they were up to 10 strikes at this points and 10 million in the red.

The same language and activity is happening here so Iím quite confident Simon will get this one across the line also.

Simon is very clear in that Jetstar are the lowest paid drivers in this country. I canít see him signing a deal that maintains this argument.

You need to to start looking past all the QF rubbish that has occurred across the years. I sense fear in many voices on here in regards to taking on the company in trying to get this across the line?

You need to start playing like a Tiger, not acting like a Kangaroo.
wheels_down is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 04:18
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 158
Well you’re clearly an AIPA member!

What you said is exactly what DIDNT happen in the last round.
And you are clearly an AFAP member, there you go one all. So tell us from your side of the fence what you think will happen? What would type of PIA would you like to see and what do you want to see as a result of it? From what I have seen from those agitating for PIA they just want to vent and let of steam because AJ gets 24m a year! No one has said or discussed what they want to be the result of PIA they just want PIA. After the PIA the agreement still has to be finalised and from what I can tell that stage hasn't been reached. So what happens after PIA and you don't like the agreement, do you then go through the laborious process of applying for PIA again? Just to be clear no Jetstar pilot is going on strike over Christmas be they AFAP or AIPA so the question is, what is the point?
Lookleft is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 06:10
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: OZZZZZZZZZZZ
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
And you are clearly an AFAP member, there you go one all. So tell us from your side of the fence what you think will happen? What would type of PIA would you like to see and what do you want to see as a result of it? From what I have seen from those agitating for PIA they just want to vent and let of steam because AJ gets 24m a year! No one has said or discussed what they want to be the result of PIA they just want PIA. After the PIA the agreement still has to be finalised and from what I can tell that stage hasn't been reached. So what happens after PIA and you don't like the agreement, do you then go through the laborious process of applying for PIA again? Just to be clear no Jetstar pilot is going on strike over Christmas be they AFAP or AIPA so the question is, what is the point?
What do I think will happen? One of two things.... depending on what is around the corner with the intro of the 321LR. (What that is will be anyones guess)
If JQ management have some sh!t sandwich they want to the crew to swallow with the rollout of this fleet, they will want an agreement quickly before it arrives. No good having an open EBA that could allow the troops to facilitate conditions that doesn't fit with the business model. Thus it will force Jq management to come up something quickly.

Other option (more likely) this will drag out as a protracted, 'greedy pilots,' 'we can't afford,' 'the QF wages policy,' 'headwinds on the horizon,' 'rising fuel costs,' 'Lionair are coming,' 'Air asia are coming,' 'unsustainable claims' and so on we've all heard before.

If you were only half listening to the crew, I would probably agree with you that
"No one has said or discussed what they want to be the result of PIA they just want PIA'
however if you have a listen to the rest of the story, it would reveal that most people just want the company to negotiate fairly and without the bulls!t QF policies that have been made up on the fly and are only there when convenient to disadvantage. If its ever a QF policy to our advantage, the answer is 'No, your low cost.'
The company negotiators are utter muppets that have no authority, bargaining ability or say in any future of the agreement. They are merely there is stalwarts who aren't actually allowed to make any decisions, hence the reaction that your getting from the crew.

So what happens after PIA and you don't like the agreement, do you then go through the laborious process of applying for PIA again?
In a word, probably.
I think most people are expecting to get locked out, as AJ has done before. If they aren't, they should be.
The QF dispute was put to bed after FWA conceded 'fears that an extended period of grounding would do significant damage to the national economy, especially with regards to the tourism and mining sectors.' I highly doubt the same could be said for JQ, but hey you never know.
Gear in transit is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 06:22
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 158
however if you have a listen to the rest of the story, it would reveal that most people just want the company to negotiate fairly and without the bulls!t QF policies that have been made up on the fly and are only there when convenient to disadvantage. If its ever a QF policy to our advantage, the answer is 'No, your low cost.' The company negotiators are utter muppets that have no authority, bargaining ability or say in any future of the agreement. They are merely there is stalwarts who aren't actually allowed to make any decisions, hence the reaction that your getting from the crew.
I don't disagree with any of that statement and it has certainly been the case with all the JQ EBA's. It is unfortunately standard QF Group HR practise to send in the clowns then when actual decisions need to be made those with authority come in. Have a chat to the EBA cc about how their latest agreement was negotiated. In my view however it makes the current application for PIA even less effective than the usual ineffectiveness of PIA.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 22:24
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 70
Posts: 850
Here’s an idea for your PIA , wear orange ties and orange armbands and make inane PA’s to the passengers .
It worked for mainline didn’t it ?
blow.n.gasket is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 22:54
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 158
Hereís an idea for your PIA , wear orange ties and orange armbands and make inane PAís to the passengers .
It worked for mainline didnít it ?
Yep but if you look at the Fair Work Act Division 6óSuspension or termination of protected industrial action by the FWC then you can get a bit of an understanding why the PIA taken by pilots is very limited in scope. The economic harm that a CEO can inflict however is not covered. So the call for "strike action" is merely 70's rhetoric as it has effectively been made illegal and the FWC has the power to stop it.So my question still is, what industrial action do JQ pilots want to take that they think will be effective in getting management to change their mind about the log of claims?
Lookleft is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.