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Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

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Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

Old 15th May 2022, 18:24
  #2081 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brakerider
would you mind sharing some negatives or things you didn’t enjoy? As you said, this forum makes it out all rosy..
I’d suggest then you go back and read the posts again. It’s been said countless times, that it’s not for everyone and for a myriad of reasons, not least of which is that you’ll be far away from friends, family and home. If you can honestly look in the mirror and be sure you’ll come with an open mind, I think the pros outweigh the cons. If you come with the expectation that everything will be what you’re used to, you’ll simply fall into the trap of being a nasally Oztranaught, who complains about how “that’s not what we do in Australia” and to be honest, I wouldn’t put up with that anymore than I know the locals will.

50 years I’ve moved around this planet, chasing perfection and all I can say is that it simply doesn’t exist. You love flying. It’s the career that you want but it’s a minefield in Oz. Oz is home. It’s where your nearest and dearest are but the options for a flying career are limited in comparison to the US. See what I mean? The good thing with the E3 option, is that it’s not permanent. Look at it as an adventure you can try and leave behind at some point, if you want.

Last edited by Kenny; 16th May 2022 at 13:47.
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Old 15th May 2022, 18:31
  #2082 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DropYourSocks
And lastly, my biggest pet peeves here. It doesn't matter where you go, but the supermarket bbq chickens here are just not the same as you get from Coles or Woolies.
Lol. My biggest pet peeves have always been the horrible bread and terrible bacon. Oh and Meat pies with tomato sauce, it’s the greatest gift to mankind. How they’ve not traversed the pacific, is beyond me. I do need to try the place in Chicago and see if they’re up to snuff.
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Old 15th May 2022, 18:39
  #2083 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kenny
Lol. My biggest pet peeves have always been the horrible bread and terrible bacon. Oh and Meat pies with tomato sauce, it’s the greatest gift to mankind. How they’ve not traversed the pacific, is beyond me. I do need to try the place in Chicago and see if they’re up to snuff.
and sausage rolls.

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Old 15th May 2022, 18:45
  #2084 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by havick
and sausage rolls.
Sh!t, forgot about that. Yep, those too. Just got a big shipment of bacon and sangas from the British food place in PA, waiting for me at home. If you don’t hear from me for a while, it’s because I’ve gorged myself and I’m in a meat coma.
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Old 16th May 2022, 02:37
  #2085 (permalink)  
 
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Even here in the middle of the ocean our Costco has pretty good Canadian bacon and Japanese white bread that tastes like home.
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Old 17th May 2022, 16:41
  #2086 (permalink)  
 
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Appears GoJet has added a section to their pilot-recruiting website that advertises for E3 candidates. It doesn't give a lot of specifics but I think it's a new section on the page. Scroll down the page:

https://www.gojetairlines.com/pilots

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Old 17th May 2022, 23:50
  #2087 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, with 75 hrs min guarantee and perdiems, a wordly $66,000 AUD per year. Rock on
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Old 18th May 2022, 02:14
  #2088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
Wow, with 75 hrs min guarantee and perdiems, a wordly $66,000 AUD per year. Rock on
But you don't need to be an Oztronaut to get a job there.
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Old 18th May 2022, 03:19
  #2089 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
Wow, with 75 hrs min guarantee and perdiems, a wordly $66,000 AUD per year. Rock on
I'd take $66k AUD in the US over $120K AUD in Aus any day of the week. Plus the 18 days off a month. Plus the United travel benefits. Plus the opportunity to actually advance your career. Plus the chance to fly to more than just 6 capital cities for the rest of your life. And that's just in your first year.
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Old 18th May 2022, 04:33
  #2090 (permalink)  
 
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Good onya socksie - keep that race to the bottom alive mate. Few more guys like you and
we might sneak it under $50k.
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Old 18th May 2022, 05:08
  #2091 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
Good onya socksie - keep that race to the bottom alive mate. Few more guys like you and
we might sneak it under $50k.
You either didn’t understand or read his reply correctly, did you? Or any of the posts here….there’s always one.

Oh and it’s “per diem”. Singular, not plural.
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Old 18th May 2022, 05:39
  #2092 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
Good onya socksie - keep that race to the bottom alive mate. Few more guys like you and
we might sneak it under $50k.
It's easy to sling mud. What's harder is trying to make a positive change to the career path available to Australian pilots. I'd like to think that not only myself, but the great many others here in the US have made a positive impact. What's more is that with every success we have in the US, it puts pressure on the operators at home to lift their game.

The day is coming where a career destination airline is going to land in Sydney and run roadshows on Qantas' door step. Whoever does it first also won't be the last. When that day comes, every carrier in Aus will finally have to compete on a global market for Australian pilots.

If you choose to stay in Aus, that's cool. But I hope the strides we are making will help lead to you also having a more rewarding career at home too.
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Old 18th May 2022, 06:31
  #2093 (permalink)  
 
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Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking **** money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.

Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is **** when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.

But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept **** conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
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Old 18th May 2022, 07:02
  #2094 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking **** money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.

Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is **** when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.

But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept **** conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
Mate I’d bet it was fun flying next to you!
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Old 18th May 2022, 07:14
  #2095 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking **** money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.

Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is **** when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.

But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept **** conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.

Aight, let's do this.

Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.

Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?

Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.

Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.

What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.
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Old 18th May 2022, 14:18
  #2096 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DropYourSocks
Aight, let's do this.

Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.

Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?

Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.

Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.

What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.
I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with someone that literally has no concept of how things work in the US regarding soft pay etc.
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Old 18th May 2022, 14:57
  #2097 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
Jesus H…..I’m not even sure where to begin with this fine example of incoherent, uneducated and completely ignorant ranting. You’re either a child, who’s daddy never gave him enough approval or some bitter twisted old man, angry at the world for a less than stellar career, who now numbs what’s left of his non-existent self esteem by drinking too much wine out of a box.

Do us all a favour and step away from the keyboard, any further posts from you will simply dig an even deeper hole.

Oh and I did learn Latin, so the correction was far from meaningless. It was me schooling you on an inaccuracy in your post, after you’d tried to school all of us, on something you know absolutely nothing about.


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Old 18th May 2022, 17:15
  #2098 (permalink)  
 
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E3 visa - relationship to AUSFTA

Originally Posted by DropYourSocks

Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country.
Not quite. It was a by-product of the trade agreement talks, but it's not part of the agreement.

It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.
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Old 18th May 2022, 17:18
  #2099 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bellthorpe
Not quite. It was a by-product of the trade agreement talks, but it's not part of the agreement.

It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.
457 work visas we're already available to Americans at the time of E3 implementation so no need to create a special visa for US citizens to work in Australia.
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Old 18th May 2022, 18:50
  #2100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bellthorpe
Not quite. It was a by-product of the trade agreement talks, but it's not part of the agreement.

It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.
Not that it’s a big deal but it came out of the agreement for Australia to buy the F35. The only country that did so when it was still on the drawing board and had yet to fly.
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