Australian pilots can work for US regionals.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 231
Likes: 45
From: In the soup
I'd take $66k AUD in the US over $120K AUD in Aus any day of the week. Plus the 18 days off a month. Plus the United travel benefits. Plus the opportunity to actually advance your career. Plus the chance to fly to more than just 6 capital cities for the rest of your life. And that's just in your first year.
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 382
Likes: 70
From: US via Oz, Honkers & Blighty.
Oh and it’s “per diem”. Singular, not plural.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 231
Likes: 45
From: In the soup
The day is coming where a career destination airline is going to land in Sydney and run roadshows on Qantas' door step. Whoever does it first also won't be the last. When that day comes, every carrier in Aus will finally have to compete on a global market for Australian pilots.
If you choose to stay in Aus, that's cool. But I hope the strides we are making will help lead to you also having a more rewarding career at home too.
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 70
Likes: 13
From: Sydney
Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking !!!! money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.
Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is !!!! when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.
But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept !!!! conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
How is going to the US and taking !!!! money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.
Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is !!!! when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.
But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept !!!! conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking !!!! money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.
Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is !!!! when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.
But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept !!!! conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
How is going to the US and taking !!!! money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.
Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is !!!! when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.
But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept !!!! conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 231
Likes: 45
From: In the soup
Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking !!!! money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.
Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is !!!! when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.
But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept !!!! conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
How is going to the US and taking !!!! money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.
Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is !!!! when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.
But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept !!!! conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
Aight, let's do this.
Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.
Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?
Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.
Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.
What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 481
Likes: 58
From: USA
Aight, let's do this.
Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.
Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?
Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.
Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.
What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.
Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.
Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?
Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.
Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.
What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 382
Likes: 70
From: US via Oz, Honkers & Blighty.
And Kenny - don't ever put purile !!!! on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.
Do us all a favour and step away from the keyboard, any further posts from you will simply dig an even deeper hole.
Oh and I did learn Latin, so the correction was far from meaningless. It was me schooling you on an inaccuracy in your post, after you’d tried to school all of us, on something you know absolutely nothing about.
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Annecy
E3 visa - relationship to AUSFTA
It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 987
Likes: 197
From: Mexico City
457 work visas we're already available to Americans at the time of E3 implementation so no need to create a special visa for US citizens to work in Australia.
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 382
Likes: 70
From: US via Oz, Honkers & Blighty.
Not that it’s a big deal but it came out of the agreement for Australia to buy the F35. The only country that did so when it was still on the drawing board and had yet to fly.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 273
Likes: 53
From: Australia
Notwithstanding the incoherent ramblings above, for anyone who is actually watching and considering the move, multiplying monthly guarantee by hourly rate is the lowest you can possibly be paid, and seldom actually happens.
Most make much, much more, as there is a big difference between credit hour and block hour.
This month I'm flying 23 actual hours, 6 days total, and making 75 hours for the trouble. Granted it's an outlier and I still can't believe I'm gonna pull it off, but it's a good example.
Most of the time at most places, you fly way less than what you credit, and make way more than MDG.
Most make much, much more, as there is a big difference between credit hour and block hour.
This month I'm flying 23 actual hours, 6 days total, and making 75 hours for the trouble. Granted it's an outlier and I still can't believe I'm gonna pull it off, but it's a good example.
Most of the time at most places, you fly way less than what you credit, and make way more than MDG.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 83
Likes: 54
From: Somewhere better soon
A question for the guys who are over there - what position in Australia would you trade your spot in the US for, or if you already had it, would you not consider going to the US?
For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?
I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.
For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?
I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 382
Likes: 70
From: US via Oz, Honkers & Blighty.
A question for the guys who are over there - what position in Australia would you trade your spot in the US for, or if you already had it, would you not consider going to the US?
For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?
I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.
For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?
I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.
How long do you want to stay?
If you decide long term, do you end up at a legacy.
Regardless of where you end up, if you stay, how many years do have before retirement?
What responsibilities do you have tying you to Oz? Kids, wife, home…..
etc, etc, etc.
Im not going to get into specifics because I can’t be bothered with those that will assume I’m simply trying to advertise the size of my d!ck but from a financial POV, getting hired at a legacy in the US was financially, the smartest thing I’ve ever done. After 7 years here, I’m now earning 3x what I earn’t as a 73 FO at VA. The only reason that’s not 5x is because I’m delaying my 73 command because I have small kids and I’d rather spend more time at home. And by the time I retire, I’m planning to have 4-5 times in my 401k, than I would’ve had in my Super.
Now personally, the cons are long..Not least of which is that my kids have American accents and I have to continually correct their grammar. Well that and the aforementioned lack of sausage rolls.
Last edited by Kenny; 18th May 2022 at 20:41.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 83
Likes: 54
From: Somewhere better soon
This would extremely tricky for anyone to answer with any accuracy. Simply because there are so many variables……
How long do you want to stay?
If you decide long term, do you end up at a legacy.
Regardless of where you end up, if you stay, how many years do have before retirement?
What responsibilities do you have tying you to Oz? Kids, wife, home…..
etc, etc, etc.
Im not going to get into specifics because I can’t be bothered with those that will assume I’m simply trying to advertise the size of my d!ck but from a financial POV, getting hired at a legacy in the US was financially, the smartest thing I’ve ever done. After 7 years here, I’m now earning 3x what I earn’t as a 73 FO at VA. The only reason that’s not 5x is because I’m delaying my 73 command because I have small kids and I’d rather spend more time at home. And by the time I retire, I’m planning to have 4-5 times in my 401k, than I would’ve had in my Super.
Now personally, the cons are long..Not least of which is that my kids have American accents and I have to continually correct their grammar. Well that and the aforementioned lack of sausage rolls.
How long do you want to stay?
If you decide long term, do you end up at a legacy.
Regardless of where you end up, if you stay, how many years do have before retirement?
What responsibilities do you have tying you to Oz? Kids, wife, home…..
etc, etc, etc.
Im not going to get into specifics because I can’t be bothered with those that will assume I’m simply trying to advertise the size of my d!ck but from a financial POV, getting hired at a legacy in the US was financially, the smartest thing I’ve ever done. After 7 years here, I’m now earning 3x what I earn’t as a 73 FO at VA. The only reason that’s not 5x is because I’m delaying my 73 command because I have small kids and I’d rather spend more time at home. And by the time I retire, I’m planning to have 4-5 times in my 401k, than I would’ve had in my Super.
Now personally, the cons are long..Not least of which is that my kids have American accents and I have to continually correct their grammar. Well that and the aforementioned lack of sausage rolls.
Thanks for the reply Kenny, I appreciate that there are many variables.
So let’s say someone mid career, a kid or two, and (maybe I assume incorrectly) at the moment an E3 has no realistic prospect of joining a major so would top out with Spirit or the likes.
I would think that if you’re young and uncommitted it’s definitely the way to go. Also if you haven’t got much seniority and the family is keen. Mid career and on a decent, though deteriorating wicket, it’s trickier.
The temptation for me is that the hits to our contract and QoL in Aus are coming harder and faster. In a few years it’ll be too late - opportunity is knocking.
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 382
Likes: 70
From: US via Oz, Honkers & Blighty.
Thanks for the reply Kenny, I appreciate that there are many variables.
So let’s say someone mid career, a kid or two, and (maybe I assume incorrectly) at the moment an E3 has no realistic prospect of joining a major so would top out with Spirit or the likes.
I would think that if you’re young and uncommitted it’s definitely the way to go. Also if you haven’t got much seniority and the family is keen. Mid career and on a decent, though deteriorating wicket, it’s trickier.
The temptation for me is that the hits to our contract and QoL in Aus are coming harder and faster. In a few years it’ll be too late - opportunity is knocking.
So let’s say someone mid career, a kid or two, and (maybe I assume incorrectly) at the moment an E3 has no realistic prospect of joining a major so would top out with Spirit or the likes.
I would think that if you’re young and uncommitted it’s definitely the way to go. Also if you haven’t got much seniority and the family is keen. Mid career and on a decent, though deteriorating wicket, it’s trickier.
The temptation for me is that the hits to our contract and QoL in Aus are coming harder and faster. In a few years it’ll be too late - opportunity is knocking.
Now, going by what my mates that are CA’s at LCC’s tell me, they are making more than enough and they’re happy. So, it’s not all bad, if you don’t get to the majors. Personally, the financial reward at United, Delta or American is simply due in large part, to the extent they’re affected by any and all geopolitical situations that may or may not happen, at any time around the world. It doesn’t take much for things to go to sh!t and thousands get furloughed for a year or more. It’s happened before and at some stage, will likely happen again.
Let me put it like this. I have an Aussie mate, mid 40’s, ex CX skipper who quit and up-stakes to the US within days of getting his GC via the lottery. No kids but he is as happy a pilot as I’ve ever seen. And we are not the easiest bunch to keep happy.
Last edited by Kenny; 18th May 2022 at 21:34. Reason: Seppling
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 794
Likes: 177
From: tossbagville
The most interesting contrast. between the two countries pilot cohorts:
For some insane reason, Australian pilots are agreeing to reduced terms to keep jobs with one of the biggest recruiting drives on the doorstep.
For some insane reason, American pilots are agreeing to increased terms due to one of the biggest recruiting drives on the doorstep.
Most of the regionals have increased their terms in an attempt to stabilise the pilot ranks, it's not working unfortunately, due to one of the biggest recruiting drives in history.
For some insane reason, Australian pilots are agreeing to reduced terms to keep jobs with one of the biggest recruiting drives on the doorstep.
For some insane reason, American pilots are agreeing to increased terms due to one of the biggest recruiting drives on the doorstep.
Most of the regionals have increased their terms in an attempt to stabilise the pilot ranks, it's not working unfortunately, due to one of the biggest recruiting drives in history.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 61
Likes: 33
From: North of Perth
A question for the guys who are over there - what position in Australia would you trade your spot in the US for, or if you already had it, would you not consider going to the US?
For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?
I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.
For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?
I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.
Am a somewhat senior A320 FO - I’d hazard a guess at ~5 years max to command, 787 FO within next 2 years (unless I wanted Sydney which would be right now).
I and at least 3 captains I fly with are seriously looking at Spirit and Atlas at this stage. And to an extent Breeze but not properly done the figures.
Would make more at either after 4 or 5 years there as an FO than I ever will as a Captain where I am. If I somehow managed to score a green card (don’t think wife would approve of me marrying into one..) then the opportunities are endless. Even if I didn’t, once you have an E3 approved with a company there’s a few extras you can move into with it in hand (Frontier for example).
Life isn’t all about money, but we’re getting to the pointy end here. Do I want to do it for the rest of my career (~30 years) and be pushing !!!! up an industrial hill every few years? I don’t think so. I love the job I do and the people I work with, but is that enough to satisfy me the rest of my career? Also probably not. My logic is I better strike while the iron’s hot. Then if it all doesn’t work out I’ll try my best to return to the back seat of some QF metal.. or even return here, honestly don’t feel like at this stage am giving up all that much to give it a crack much to many of my colleagues chagrin (an Australian narrowbody command opportunity, you’re nuts!!!)
QF Captain or long haul FO I wouldn’t be going anywhere. I’d be pushing 45+ by the time I even had a look in at those positions though.