Qantas Engineering redundances - Advice required!!!
QF94:
Since you asked:
1. I intensly dislike workplace cruelty wherever I see it and the behaviour of Qantas management in its treatment of engineers and perhaps other staff is just disgusting - the deliberate maximising of fear uncertainty and doubt for the pleasure of the management.
2. As for unions, my experience is that management gets the union it deserves. I also remember when unions ran roughshod over the general publics rights in the 1970's.
3. If Qantas was managed by humans and interested in providing a genuine value proposition for Australians NOT living in Sydney, I would use it. I gave up around 2002 after a particularly bad business class trip to the USA.
4. Favourite airline? Not Emirates. BA used to be pretty good, United, Singapore and of course Virgin.
Sunfish, since when did you become a supporter of unions and QANTAS employees?
I recall you being a staunch advocate of never flying QANTAS and being one of the 82% who choose not to fly QANTAS, making AJ's figures look plausible in justifying his cuts to QANTAS workers. You want a company to survive, support it instead of giving sideline advice and sounding all so knowledgeable, while supporting your favoured foreign airline of choice, namely Emirates.
I recall you being a staunch advocate of never flying QANTAS and being one of the 82% who choose not to fly QANTAS, making AJ's figures look plausible in justifying his cuts to QANTAS workers. You want a company to survive, support it instead of giving sideline advice and sounding all so knowledgeable, while supporting your favoured foreign airline of choice, namely Emirates.
1. I intensly dislike workplace cruelty wherever I see it and the behaviour of Qantas management in its treatment of engineers and perhaps other staff is just disgusting - the deliberate maximising of fear uncertainty and doubt for the pleasure of the management.
2. As for unions, my experience is that management gets the union it deserves. I also remember when unions ran roughshod over the general publics rights in the 1970's.
3. If Qantas was managed by humans and interested in providing a genuine value proposition for Australians NOT living in Sydney, I would use it. I gave up around 2002 after a particularly bad business class trip to the USA.
4. Favourite airline? Not Emirates. BA used to be pretty good, United, Singapore and of course Virgin.
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Forstaff are just doing as they please and disregarding the terms of the EBA.
They aren't telling us so we have lodged for FWA intervention for breach of
agreement.
They aren't telling us so we have lodged for FWA intervention for breach of
agreement.
Put it in perspective. We all know AVV has a limited future. The knife has told us all already. Potentially AVV will be kept on a limited lifeline doing the remaining 747's and 767 overflow work. The 747's will be a fleet of 9 in the near future and the 767's are done in Brisbane along with the 330's and 737's.
They have already clearly stated that the 787's and 380's won't be done in Australia come hell or high water. The state and federal governments don't care enough about aircraft maintenance to warrant them putting in any funds at all to keep the industry alive unlike the doomed car industry. Qantas even played the Victorian and Queensland governments off against each other at the beginning of 2012 to see how much more they could squeeze out of the state to line their filthy corporate pockets. Victoria has been bled dry and so has Queensland. So they went to the facility that was already servicing aircraft that will be around longer then the 747.
Pessimistic but true.
They have already clearly stated that the 787's and 380's won't be done in Australia come hell or high water. The state and federal governments don't care enough about aircraft maintenance to warrant them putting in any funds at all to keep the industry alive unlike the doomed car industry. Qantas even played the Victorian and Queensland governments off against each other at the beginning of 2012 to see how much more they could squeeze out of the state to line their filthy corporate pockets. Victoria has been bled dry and so has Queensland. So they went to the facility that was already servicing aircraft that will be around longer then the 747.
Pessimistic but true.
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Throw in a Lib Fed Gov into this mess, come election time at the end of the year, with Abbott, Hockey & Co. and a voila......hello work choices and goodbye redundancy payouts or any entitlements, voluntary or compulsory.
Issues need to be sorted as soon as possible, whatever the outcome may be.
Government of any level or thereof cannot be relied on for any purpose at all.
Issues need to be sorted as soon as possible, whatever the outcome may be.
Government of any level or thereof cannot be relied on for any purpose at all.
600 ft lb.
..............And when the Australian dollar falls through the floor and China shows its displeasure over our defence ties to America, as it soon will, the folly of offshore maintenance will be revealed for what it always was.
"Right thinking people" before the Franco Prussian, First and Second World wars believed that war and turmoil would not come because it was economically stupid as "international trade" was far too important in their globalized world.
They were wrong.
They have already clearly stated that the 787's and 380's won't be done in Australia come hell or high water.
"Right thinking people" before the Franco Prussian, First and Second World wars believed that war and turmoil would not come because it was economically stupid as "international trade" was far too important in their globalized world.
They were wrong.
They have already clearly stated that the 787's and 380's won't be done in Australia come hell or high water. The state and federal governments don't care enough about aircraft maintenance to warrant them putting in any funds at all to keep the industry alive unlike the doomed car industry.
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Sunfish,
There would have to be catastrophic event for the Australian dollar to "fall through the floor" (North Korea and Iran's nueclear ambitions ) and this would result in the costs of running an airline skyrocketing. Those airlines with high debt would collapse as people drastically reduced their travelling on top of that.
Maintenance being done offshore for Qantas would be cut back as the fleet scales back. This would exacerbate the current situation unfortunately.
But there appears to be no likelihood of the dollar doing that just yet, ( as much as it would benefit the national economy) nor in the short term, and in fact, any drop is going to be quite slow so perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you think that this is about to happen.
Pull up Terrain,
Katter's bill, unfortunately, will not get up.
He just doesn't generate enough support among other pollies despite being right. I've never liked his approach to many issues, but on this issue I agree in principle, and he needs to refine the delivery of the message to the right people to have a chance.
There would have to be catastrophic event for the Australian dollar to "fall through the floor" (North Korea and Iran's nueclear ambitions ) and this would result in the costs of running an airline skyrocketing. Those airlines with high debt would collapse as people drastically reduced their travelling on top of that.
Maintenance being done offshore for Qantas would be cut back as the fleet scales back. This would exacerbate the current situation unfortunately.
But there appears to be no likelihood of the dollar doing that just yet, ( as much as it would benefit the national economy) nor in the short term, and in fact, any drop is going to be quite slow so perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you think that this is about to happen.
Pull up Terrain,
Katter's bill, unfortunately, will not get up.
He just doesn't generate enough support among other pollies despite being right. I've never liked his approach to many issues, but on this issue I agree in principle, and he needs to refine the delivery of the message to the right people to have a chance.
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The beauty or otherwise of Bob Katters delivery methods matter not when it comes to his passion regarding Qantas and its maintenance. The truth is he just cannnot offer exclusive club membership to the ALP rotters that put themselves before the country.
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I DO like his passion, but passion is not enough for something such as this.
The niceties and hallway lobbying of politics are not his strengths and demonstrate how his political history will work against him.
I wish him luck.
The niceties and hallway lobbying of politics are not his strengths and demonstrate how his political history will work against him.
I wish him luck.
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It's called mitigation, they want to retrench Sydney line LAME's and VR wasn't fully subscribed, so after asking around some Brissie line blokes put their hand up and their positions were back filled by some Sydney line blokes thereby mitigating to some degree the ultimate number of Sydney blokes who will be given their marching orders. I believe the same process should work for AVV blokes with Brisbane heavy.
Thanks for the reply company spy.
However, why are the line and base maintenance lameys treated as completely separate groups? Why does it necessarily have to be that sydney lameys go to BNE line only and AVV lames go to BNE base only??
There are lameys in BNE Base that have put their hand up for a redundancy but have recently been told they will not receive it.
Why can't sydney lames backfill into BNE base maintenance?
I was under the impression that the company wanted to reduce lame numbers on the line, so why would they do backfills into BNE line when there is a need in BNE base?
However, why are the line and base maintenance lameys treated as completely separate groups? Why does it necessarily have to be that sydney lameys go to BNE line only and AVV lames go to BNE base only??
There are lameys in BNE Base that have put their hand up for a redundancy but have recently been told they will not receive it.
Why can't sydney lames backfill into BNE base maintenance?
I was under the impression that the company wanted to reduce lame numbers on the line, so why would they do backfills into BNE line when there is a need in BNE base?
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The head of LMO GH has provided numberous updates on the mitigation process over the last several months. Because of the rediculous amount of time the process has been going on, you might not recall that expressions of interest were called for from all LMO ports and BNE Heavy.
Another memo had some unreadable table that identified dozens of position available in the BNE big house.
If you submitted an EOI for the mitigation process then QE Transitions would also have also attempted to identify the positions available.
Excuse my ignorance, but when did Heavy maint become Base maint and Base maint become line maint, guessing that crackpot Cox had something to with it and the stupid ACS banner.
Another memo had some unreadable table that identified dozens of position available in the BNE big house.
If you submitted an EOI for the mitigation process then QE Transitions would also have also attempted to identify the positions available.
Excuse my ignorance, but when did Heavy maint become Base maint and Base maint become line maint, guessing that crackpot Cox had something to with it and the stupid ACS banner.
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There are lameys in BNE Base that have put their hand up for a redundancy but have recently been told they will not receive it.
We suspect but Qantas keep denying that they are understaffed in Bne Heavy.
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Fedsec, could you elaborate on the numbers? originally 204? or now 240?
how many have VR'ed and how many to relocate? How many mitigation EOI's received from each Port? Maybe an update memo for the members?
So many questions.
Unfortunately i also feel there could be a safety issue having several hundred front line people directly in charge of safety critical tasks working in the current environment. The uncertainty of this process, playing on the affected guys minds, over several months, HAS become another hole in cheese.
how many have VR'ed and how many to relocate? How many mitigation EOI's received from each Port? Maybe an update memo for the members?
So many questions.
Unfortunately i also feel there could be a safety issue having several hundred front line people directly in charge of safety critical tasks working in the current environment. The uncertainty of this process, playing on the affected guys minds, over several months, HAS become another hole in cheese.
Last edited by buttmonkey1; 19th Feb 2013 at 05:13.
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We have sought a copy of the risk assessments from Forstaff and Qantas in relation to the uncertainty. They refuse to provide them though and yes, this is a real issue unlike the lockout they proposed. Losing pay for a couple of days is nothing like losing your job.
Numbers? It changes on a daily basis so hard to pin a notice on it. They did tell us as of last Thu (Sorry no AME numbers, they won't share that with us) -
98 Syd LAMEs to go (this has not changed)
9 are gone already through attrition
12 have or are taking VR
3 are to be redeployed through the first round offers
74 still left to be acquitted.
There are 45 positions available in other ports.
20 Qf LAMEs to go from Avalon.
Latest was that 7 more need to find work.
Qf told us that any of them who want a job in Bne Heavy can have one.
6 have applied for Mel Line jobs in first round.
ALAEA has advised Qantas that their first round preferences should be processed now if they pass the Line interview process.
Numbers? It changes on a daily basis so hard to pin a notice on it. They did tell us as of last Thu (Sorry no AME numbers, they won't share that with us) -
98 Syd LAMEs to go (this has not changed)
9 are gone already through attrition
12 have or are taking VR
3 are to be redeployed through the first round offers
74 still left to be acquitted.
There are 45 positions available in other ports.
20 Qf LAMEs to go from Avalon.
Latest was that 7 more need to find work.
Qf told us that any of them who want a job in Bne Heavy can have one.
6 have applied for Mel Line jobs in first round.
ALAEA has advised Qantas that their first round preferences should be processed now if they pass the Line interview process.
Last edited by ALAEA Fed Sec; 19th Feb 2013 at 06:09.
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Thanks fedsec, just one more number then? How many lames are
working with this 'slow bake' burden hanging over them.
might as well include the 45 others who have put in eoi's.
Large companies terminate hundreds of staff weekly, you can read
about it almost daily, how do our half baked managers look compared
to others. Surely they don't make their workforces endure this crap.
working with this 'slow bake' burden hanging over them.
might as well include the 45 others who have put in eoi's.
Large companies terminate hundreds of staff weekly, you can read
about it almost daily, how do our half baked managers look compared
to others. Surely they don't make their workforces endure this crap.
