Qantas Engineering redundances - Advice required!!!
Since this next cull in 3 months is no secret does anyone know what it entails.
Fed Sec do you have any more info of the next blood letting?
If it is the case, then it would seem that this first cull of 200 wont be over when the next round is announced.
I know of people who have put their hand up for this round but have asked to stay until the end of June.
Fed Sec do you have any more info of the next blood letting?
If it is the case, then it would seem that this first cull of 200 wont be over when the next round is announced.
I know of people who have put their hand up for this round but have asked to stay until the end of June.
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Inducement.......
Baah Baah, Black sheep......
You have bleeted on and on, for days now.
Post after post you have induced, antagonised, beckoned, and pleaded for somebody, just one body, to impune themselves. To utter the words. And you have failed.....
Not because of the wile and cunning of those you wish to trap, but because it is simply a matter of conscience. It lives inside of you and all around you. Can you look a man in the eye?
Perhaps its all a figment of your imagination......
KR747
You have bleeted on and on, for days now.
Post after post you have induced, antagonised, beckoned, and pleaded for somebody, just one body, to impune themselves. To utter the words. And you have failed.....
Not because of the wile and cunning of those you wish to trap, but because it is simply a matter of conscience. It lives inside of you and all around you. Can you look a man in the eye?
Perhaps its all a figment of your imagination......
KR747
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 12th Dec 2012 at 09:42. Reason: No idea....
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Fed Sec do you have any more info of the next blood letting?
With the onset of our future living being cut, I will try and make whatever $$$ I can in the meantime.
Company will allow you to stay until the end of June if you like, you would stop working earlier but be allowed to take leave to reach milestone dates.
In the long term, if no OT is ever worked by anybody then more staff will have to hired/kept, your intended aim. This also raises cost as it's inefficient. Both these outcomes make third party providers look like a good option and you have no job. Clear enough or am I missing something.
Now the real thing is the fed sec can't do squat.
What is the outcomes from the latest meeting Fed Sec? Is it last in first out, oldest and most expensive out, single Boeing license or no QF type and your out.
The ALAEA can do nothing. The numbers have been confirmed, it's just a formality as to who are chosen to go.
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@QF94
You are so correct in what you are saying. I left QF 7 years ago and you look back and realise how much that place is a lazy mans gravy train. Sure you can earn more $$$ elsewhere but you work way more, sure you can get more training elsewhere but you pay for it like doing 14 transits in a 12 hour shift. Go to GA and see how much you get paid and what dodgy sign offs you'll do. Then if you complain find out what happens.
Go to Asia or the Middle East and see what happens. One QF guy from Brisbane went to Etihad,he was given a 777 course and his repayment was refusing to do OT. He was given a one way ticket a few weeks later.
QF engineering is a massive snake pit. Not one person there will stand next to you whilst the gun is aimed. I have been there.
My advice is for everyone to stop fighting, realise you have NO power but to look after yourself with OT, training and try give yourself every advantage over the guy sitting next to you at your next job interview. The only way to make these idiots understand it will fail is to walk away, which I know no one has the balls to do.
You are so correct in what you are saying. I left QF 7 years ago and you look back and realise how much that place is a lazy mans gravy train. Sure you can earn more $$$ elsewhere but you work way more, sure you can get more training elsewhere but you pay for it like doing 14 transits in a 12 hour shift. Go to GA and see how much you get paid and what dodgy sign offs you'll do. Then if you complain find out what happens.
Go to Asia or the Middle East and see what happens. One QF guy from Brisbane went to Etihad,he was given a 777 course and his repayment was refusing to do OT. He was given a one way ticket a few weeks later.
QF engineering is a massive snake pit. Not one person there will stand next to you whilst the gun is aimed. I have been there.
My advice is for everyone to stop fighting, realise you have NO power but to look after yourself with OT, training and try give yourself every advantage over the guy sitting next to you at your next job interview. The only way to make these idiots understand it will fail is to walk away, which I know no one has the balls to do.
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1me
Thanks for the sentiment and the same to you and all those I have differences with (for those that think I'm sucking up, you're badly mistaken).
I wish no bad upon anybody. Everyone has an opinion, and is entitled to it. Last I recall, this is a free country with freedom of speech. Let's live by that, or is it only free if you're compliant with the popular majority?
Fedsec
Encouraging others to be selfish? I thought people would be mature enough to make their own decisions. If you've read my posts, I'm not telling anyone to do anything.
As for being a company advocate, you're correct in the sense about the company, NOT the management and what they're doing. There is a difference.
I'm not an AFL person, so your sarcasm is lost on me. I follow league, and have only ever followed one team, win, lose or draw.
Maybe this is another ploy from management. We have been told directly, the numbers, and the process the management now have to go through to make up the criteria for the unfilled VR positions. They tell us one thing, and you another.
Fedsec, with all due respect, you failed to stop the shutdown of MELHM, AVV, and redundancies over the last few years across the company. The saying "You won't get me I'm part of the union" died a long time ago. You seem to be still running on the vapours of the 2008 "win".
October 2011 changed the ballgame forever.
Acute Instinct, step away from the glue vapours. You're addicted. Do you know any other nursery rhymes? Or you haven't gotten that far yet?
Despite our differences of opinion QF94, I do sincerely wish you and your family a happy Christmas and a joyous New Year!
I wish no bad upon anybody. Everyone has an opinion, and is entitled to it. Last I recall, this is a free country with freedom of speech. Let's live by that, or is it only free if you're compliant with the popular majority?
Fedsec
Not only is this a selfish attitude, it is encouraging others to be selfish. Read this guys earlier posts and you can just about pin point the time he became a company advocate. He's just like a Collingwood supporter who decided to switch to Carlton. His support for either team from that point on is irrelevant.
As for being a company advocate, you're correct in the sense about the company, NOT the management and what they're doing. There is a difference.
I'm not an AFL person, so your sarcasm is lost on me. I follow league, and have only ever followed one team, win, lose or draw.
This is crap guys. They haven't even confirmed any numbers because what they have put out doesn't even match their existing workforce figures. Nothing is foregone if you stick together.
Fedsec, with all due respect, you failed to stop the shutdown of MELHM, AVV, and redundancies over the last few years across the company. The saying "You won't get me I'm part of the union" died a long time ago. You seem to be still running on the vapours of the 2008 "win".
October 2011 changed the ballgame forever.
Acute Instinct, step away from the glue vapours. You're addicted. Do you know any other nursery rhymes? Or you haven't gotten that far yet?
Last edited by QF94; 12th Dec 2012 at 13:25.
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ALAEA backs Dixon as saviour for QANTAS!
Fedsec, this one is for you:
The World Today - Aircraft engineers take sides in the Qantas dispute 29/11/2012
Here you are bleeting about standing as one, but you're willing to back this creep back into QANTAS! What's in it for you? You have lost me on this one. "If he dosen't sell off all the assets" and so on. What the hell was he trying to do back in 2007? He brought in the A380. He broke off ties with Asian carriers, in particular SIA.
Anyone who can say Dixon would be a saviour to QANTAS has lost the plot. He almost sold the company and it wouldn't be here today. Dixon led the company for eight years and trashed the brand to no end. You were always squealing he should pay more to staff when record profits were being made, and now you think he's good for the company. I guess if someone says all the right things, they must be good. This is the height of stupidity!
If he gets in, that is QANTAS finished once and for all. Maybe you should read your previous posts. Maybe you're the one who changes footy sides.
It looks like your support for the current situation is now irrelevant and redundant as your allegiance is to the one who started this whole mess. Your job will still be intact when 204 have gone from SYD.
Just in case you feel I'm an advocate for the current regime, I am making this point very clear, the whole board needs to be replaced, but not with Dixon, Singleton, Gregg, Jerry Harvey and Carnegie and maybe a seat or two from the ALAEA.
The World Today - Aircraft engineers take sides in the Qantas dispute 29/11/2012
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: The Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association says Qantas is in deep trouble.
The association had a few run-ins with the former CEO Geoff Dixon during his time in the top job.
But now, the federal secretary Steve Purvinas wonders if he's the airline's saviour.
STEVE PURVINAS: Look as far as we're concerned from a union perspective, Qantas as an airline is going to be destroyed under the current leadership of Alan Joyce and his mate Leigh Clifford and the plans they've put forward. The only hope that we have is if someone comes in and changes direction and Geoff Dixon is saying all the right things at the moment.
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: Have you been in talks with Geoff Dixon at all?
STEVE PURVINAS: No, I haven't been in any talks whatsoever with Mr Dixon or any of those mentioned as part of this consortium but I have no doubt that if it does get anything towards a serious takeover or a portion of the stake holding that is going to have them having seats on the board, I have no doubt they'll contact us.
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: Geoff Dixon is part of a high-profile group of investors seeking changes at Qantas. The group is believed to be considering selling off the low cost carrier Jetstar and the airline's frequent flyer program.
Steve Purvinas says that's preferable to the airline's current course of action.
STEVE PURVINAS: We're not sure what's going to happen but I'm thinking that as long as Alan Joyce and his mate Clifford are running that airline it is doomed so something needs to give.
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: So what needs to give?
STEVE PURVINAS: Look, it Mr Dixon was to take over the airline it may be a good thing. He has led the airline for eight or nine years and it was profitable in every one of those years. So if he doesn't sell off all the assets, if he doesn't continue to invest in failed ventures in Asia under the Jet Star brand, it could actually see growth in Qantas' international business which is what we need.
The association had a few run-ins with the former CEO Geoff Dixon during his time in the top job.
But now, the federal secretary Steve Purvinas wonders if he's the airline's saviour.
STEVE PURVINAS: Look as far as we're concerned from a union perspective, Qantas as an airline is going to be destroyed under the current leadership of Alan Joyce and his mate Leigh Clifford and the plans they've put forward. The only hope that we have is if someone comes in and changes direction and Geoff Dixon is saying all the right things at the moment.
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: Have you been in talks with Geoff Dixon at all?
STEVE PURVINAS: No, I haven't been in any talks whatsoever with Mr Dixon or any of those mentioned as part of this consortium but I have no doubt that if it does get anything towards a serious takeover or a portion of the stake holding that is going to have them having seats on the board, I have no doubt they'll contact us.
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: Geoff Dixon is part of a high-profile group of investors seeking changes at Qantas. The group is believed to be considering selling off the low cost carrier Jetstar and the airline's frequent flyer program.
Steve Purvinas says that's preferable to the airline's current course of action.
STEVE PURVINAS: We're not sure what's going to happen but I'm thinking that as long as Alan Joyce and his mate Clifford are running that airline it is doomed so something needs to give.
TIMOTHY MCDONALD: So what needs to give?
STEVE PURVINAS: Look, it Mr Dixon was to take over the airline it may be a good thing. He has led the airline for eight or nine years and it was profitable in every one of those years. So if he doesn't sell off all the assets, if he doesn't continue to invest in failed ventures in Asia under the Jet Star brand, it could actually see growth in Qantas' international business which is what we need.
Anyone who can say Dixon would be a saviour to QANTAS has lost the plot. He almost sold the company and it wouldn't be here today. Dixon led the company for eight years and trashed the brand to no end. You were always squealing he should pay more to staff when record profits were being made, and now you think he's good for the company. I guess if someone says all the right things, they must be good. This is the height of stupidity!
If he gets in, that is QANTAS finished once and for all. Maybe you should read your previous posts. Maybe you're the one who changes footy sides.
Not only is this a selfish attitude, it is encouraging others to be selfish. Read this guys earlier posts and you can just about pin point the time he became a company advocate. He's just like a Collingwood supporter who decided to switch to Carlton. His support for either team from that point on is irrelevant.
Just in case you feel I'm an advocate for the current regime, I am making this point very clear, the whole board needs to be replaced, but not with Dixon, Singleton, Gregg, Jerry Harvey and Carnegie and maybe a seat or two from the ALAEA.
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Your actions and words are backing the current Board. Read my words.
The airline will be destroyed under Clifford and Joyce.
Do you know what the word "if" means? Now take a look at what I said about Dixon -
I am sure your undying support for your current managers has not gone unnoticed.
The airline will be destroyed under Clifford and Joyce.
Do you know what the word "if" means? Now take a look at what I said about Dixon -
if he doesn't sell off all the assets
if he doesn't continue to invest in failed ventures in Asia under the Jet Star brand
it could actually see growth in Qantas' international business which is what we need
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I don't know what language you're reading my posts in, but under no circumstances do I have any support for this current management. I have stated all along that the board needs to be changed, and the company is in a very poor state of repair. It is all but destroyed.
Now who's on the path of justification for bringing back a creep who walked out with $11million for an unfinished contract.
I have read your words. More than the ones you have quoted. "IF". We're talking about Dixon here. IF he didn't buy the A380. IF he bought the 777's. IF he didn't upset the Singaporeans so much. IF he actually succeeded in selling QANTAS. IF he selected Borghetti and not the current clown.
I'm sure your newfound support for the previous management will not go unnoticed either. But you'll have your cheer squad cheering for every word you utter. That's fine. QANTAS cannot win with this current regime, or the one you now have support for.
QANTAS is well and truly stuffed, and with the support of the ALAEA.
Now who's on the path of justification for bringing back a creep who walked out with $11million for an unfinished contract.
I have read your words. More than the ones you have quoted. "IF". We're talking about Dixon here. IF he didn't buy the A380. IF he bought the 777's. IF he didn't upset the Singaporeans so much. IF he actually succeeded in selling QANTAS. IF he selected Borghetti and not the current clown.
I'm sure your newfound support for the previous management will not go unnoticed either. But you'll have your cheer squad cheering for every word you utter. That's fine. QANTAS cannot win with this current regime, or the one you now have support for.
QANTAS is well and truly stuffed, and with the support of the ALAEA.
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QF94 , Fed sec's "support" is highly qualified not absolute.I don't think he could be more up front or explain more simply.
As to how Dixon and co. could be held to any commitment , that would be for another day.
Faced with the current choice I too would support Dixon IF it meant a change of direction for the betterment of the main line and its employees.
Sometimes your enemy's enemy is your friend.
Dixon is a pragmatist and if he must negotiate with his former union foes he will do it to get a deal done. That pragmatism needs to come from both sides.
As to how Dixon and co. could be held to any commitment , that would be for another day.
Faced with the current choice I too would support Dixon IF it meant a change of direction for the betterment of the main line and its employees.
Sometimes your enemy's enemy is your friend.
Dixon is a pragmatist and if he must negotiate with his former union foes he will do it to get a deal done. That pragmatism needs to come from both sides.
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I agree with some of the QF94's sentiment. Whilst I support Fed Sec as the leader of our union and trust what he says I think if Dixon and his mates get in it will be a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire"!
Dixon hates us almost as much as Joyce does. He fought us tooth and nail in 2008 and nearly destroyed the company with the failed APA PE bid. He is no saviour, merely a seagull looking to score a few hot chips at the beach!
Dixon hates us almost as much as Joyce does. He fought us tooth and nail in 2008 and nearly destroyed the company with the failed APA PE bid. He is no saviour, merely a seagull looking to score a few hot chips at the beach!
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If Dixon wants support he too must compromise. Simple as that.
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Never fear our new management team is on the way to save us 
Geese jogging down the road (Original) - YouTube
Geese jogging down the road (Original) - YouTube
Last edited by KrispyKreme; 13th Dec 2012 at 00:20.
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I think if Dixon and his mates get in it will be a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire"!
I don't want Dixon to run it but if it is a chioce between the current Execs or him, he wins by a short half head. Anyone, I mean even Jeff Kennett, would be better than Joyce and Clifford. Who knows, maybe even our resident Aviation expert GT would be better.
Just remember when I post on here there are always things I know that I cannot say.
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Fedsec, letting Dixon in will be the end for QANTAS as we know it. He started Jetstar. It would be like letting a paedophile be in charge of the day care centre.
You're relying on too many "IFs" to justify the creep back into QANTAS. Hell, I'd rather Emirates take us over 100% than let Dixon and cronies back in.
It's OK for you to put your support behind Dixon. You keep your job regardless, and maybe even get a bonus. Or is this an ALAEA v AWU contest to see who gets into QANTAS first depending on who supports who.
You may as well let Gillard and Swan run QANTAS. They've stuffed this nation. Dixon is good mates with Ferguson. I guess that's why he still has his job at Tourism Australia.
There is absolutely no justification to allow Dixon and co back into QANTAS. Regardless of what you can or can't say.
You think he's going to forget the torrid time he was given by Fedsec back in 2008? This is business, and Dixon and co look after only one thing. Dixon and co. As much as I hate to say it, Dixon is too smart to make a deal that binds him to do good by others. He didn't get to where he is by "compromising".
The true colours are finally coming out. Throw the O/T red herring for all the sea gulls to chase after, whilst throwing your support for an ex-CEO that created what we have today. Some people have very short memories.
ampclamp
Fedsec
There you go amclamp.
You're relying on too many "IFs" to justify the creep back into QANTAS. Hell, I'd rather Emirates take us over 100% than let Dixon and cronies back in.
It's OK for you to put your support behind Dixon. You keep your job regardless, and maybe even get a bonus. Or is this an ALAEA v AWU contest to see who gets into QANTAS first depending on who supports who.
You may as well let Gillard and Swan run QANTAS. They've stuffed this nation. Dixon is good mates with Ferguson. I guess that's why he still has his job at Tourism Australia.
There is absolutely no justification to allow Dixon and co back into QANTAS. Regardless of what you can or can't say.
If Dixon wants support he too must compromise. Simple as that.
The true colours are finally coming out. Throw the O/T red herring for all the sea gulls to chase after, whilst throwing your support for an ex-CEO that created what we have today. Some people have very short memories.
ampclamp
QF94 , Fed sec's "support" is highly qualified not absolute.I don't think he could be more up front or explain more simply.
Just remember when I post on here there are always things I know that I cannot say.
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Fedsec, the below quote is from another thread Gregg, Dixon, Carnegie, Singo make a play on QF
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...play-qf-6.html
Going back to 28 November, you believe Dixon is QANTAS. Looks like you've sold out to "scrotum face". Your words not mine.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...play-qf-7.html
Something just isn't right here. You say to look back at my posts and can pinpoint when I became a "company advocate." I can pinpoint exactly to 28 November, which appears, that you're jumping into bed with Dixon. If that's not an about face, I don't know what is.
I have never said anything against QANTAS. But I sure as hell have never shown any support to either the current or previous management.
You weren't too up front about this until you were drawn on it. Now I really am confused as to what's worse. The current management, or you guys getting into bed with a fierce opponent from the past. Either way does not bode well for QANTAS.
Who do you support now? Collingwood or Carlton?
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...play-qf-6.html
Quote:
Like so many others are saying here, if these 'rebels' do wrest control from the current board it won't be at all good for the airline or its staff. Let's face it, if these people really had what it takes to make (& keep) an airline great, they would have done it by now. Don't agree. If Joyce and his sponsors stay, there will be no Qantas. They are sending it broke just like they did Ansett.
Dixon is Qantas. Joyce is Jetstar.
Like so many others are saying here, if these 'rebels' do wrest control from the current board it won't be at all good for the airline or its staff. Let's face it, if these people really had what it takes to make (& keep) an airline great, they would have done it by now. Don't agree. If Joyce and his sponsors stay, there will be no Qantas. They are sending it broke just like they did Ansett.
Dixon is Qantas. Joyce is Jetstar.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...play-qf-7.html
Quote:
Sorry Fed Sec, I normally agree with you but this time, I believe that you are wrong. Never, ever, it cannot be. Well maybe it can. Look I don't think Dixon should be near our airline but I am absolutely 100% certain that Joyce and Clifford should not be. They will kill it. Dixon may kill it.
Yes I too agree that much of the mess was created by old scrotum face in the first place. The ship was sinking when he slipped into a life raft. I do think Qantas can be saved though it just needs some airline people to run it.
Something needs to give.
Sorry Fed Sec, I normally agree with you but this time, I believe that you are wrong. Never, ever, it cannot be. Well maybe it can. Look I don't think Dixon should be near our airline but I am absolutely 100% certain that Joyce and Clifford should not be. They will kill it. Dixon may kill it.
Yes I too agree that much of the mess was created by old scrotum face in the first place. The ship was sinking when he slipped into a life raft. I do think Qantas can be saved though it just needs some airline people to run it.
Something needs to give.
I have never said anything against QANTAS. But I sure as hell have never shown any support to either the current or previous management.
You weren't too up front about this until you were drawn on it. Now I really am confused as to what's worse. The current management, or you guys getting into bed with a fierce opponent from the past. Either way does not bode well for QANTAS.
He's just like a Collingwood supporter who decided to switch to Carlton. His support for either team from that point on is irrelevant.
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On the black sheep bleets.....
As your aggression builds to justify your moral bankruptcy, your insecurities fail you.
A simple message. The glue that joins us. Something worth getting high on......
Selfish and Selfless people (quotes and pictures) - YouTube
Says it all really. I'm out of ryhmes, and out reasons. You got me......
KR747
A simple message. The glue that joins us. Something worth getting high on......
Selfish and Selfless people (quotes and pictures) - YouTube
Says it all really. I'm out of ryhmes, and out reasons. You got me......
KR747
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 13th Dec 2012 at 06:54.
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As your aggression builds to justify your moral bankruptcy, your insecurities fail you.
A simple message. The glue that joins us. Something worth getting high on......
A simple message. The glue that joins us. Something worth getting high on......
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QF94,
Your comments and criticisms conflict with the above statement of yours.
Pretty unfair I would say.
If you want to be taken seriously, then be nicer if someone disagrees with you.
I agree with your sentiments on Dixon though.
Dixon and co. or ANY consortium with enough cash to make change in Qantas are free to do exactly that. WHAT changes they make is really the issue.
Most fair minded people would adjudge that Joyce and the board should go.
Who should replace them?
What credentials must they have?
What direction should they take the company and how should this be done?
Is it too late?
So many questions and so few people from which to choose in the corporate world to run this show.
Dixon was hopelessly compromised in carrying out his fiduciary duty during the proposed takeover and should not get a guernsey for this one.
So who and why?
....and a word in defence of the ALAEA fed sec.
He's at least attempting to DO something even if some things are beyond him.
I for one would be encouraging this from he, and anybody, as long as there is hope that Qantas employees can have their lot improved.
If YOU or anybody else can offer constructive ideas or positive suggestions, I'm sure no one is going to belittle you or others for having done so.
Such is not fanciful because I have been part of and influenced change for the better in an organisation at a time when it did not seem possible.
You never stop trying.
I wish no bad upon anybody. Everyone has an opinion, and is entitled to it. Last I recall, this is a free country with freedom of speech. Let's live by that, or is it only free if you're compliant with the popular majority?
Acute Instinct, step away from the glue vapours. You're addicted. Do you know any other nursery rhymes? Or you haven't gotten that far yet?
If you want to be taken seriously, then be nicer if someone disagrees with you.
I agree with your sentiments on Dixon though.
Dixon and co. or ANY consortium with enough cash to make change in Qantas are free to do exactly that. WHAT changes they make is really the issue.
Most fair minded people would adjudge that Joyce and the board should go.
Who should replace them?
What credentials must they have?
What direction should they take the company and how should this be done?
Is it too late?
So many questions and so few people from which to choose in the corporate world to run this show.
Dixon was hopelessly compromised in carrying out his fiduciary duty during the proposed takeover and should not get a guernsey for this one.
So who and why?
....and a word in defence of the ALAEA fed sec.
He's at least attempting to DO something even if some things are beyond him.
I for one would be encouraging this from he, and anybody, as long as there is hope that Qantas employees can have their lot improved.
If YOU or anybody else can offer constructive ideas or positive suggestions, I'm sure no one is going to belittle you or others for having done so.
Such is not fanciful because I have been part of and influenced change for the better in an organisation at a time when it did not seem possible.
You never stop trying.