Qantas Engineering redundances - Advice required!!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What happen to this alliance,all talk but no action
Last edited by QF94; 6th Dec 2012 at 06:35.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 57
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bagus
> Home > Campaigns
Qantas Engineers' Alliance
Together, we are committed to working for a strong, sustainable future for our industry.
We are calling for:
Genuine engagement on fleet and maintenance planning
A commitment to maintaining aircraft in Australia
On-going skills training and quality jobs
Infrastructure investment for a strong Australian engineering capability
A plan to take advantage of maintenance opportunities in the Asia-Pacific
We have launched a new website.* Check it out.
What happen to this alliance,all talk but no action
Qantas Engineers' Alliance
Together, we are committed to working for a strong, sustainable future for our industry.
We are calling for:
Genuine engagement on fleet and maintenance planning
A commitment to maintaining aircraft in Australia
On-going skills training and quality jobs
Infrastructure investment for a strong Australian engineering capability
A plan to take advantage of maintenance opportunities in the Asia-Pacific
We have launched a new website.* Check it out.
What happen to this alliance,all talk but no action
Perhaps there are plenty willing to talk but few willing to get stuck in?
Perhaps people just don't care.
Perhaps it's all just too hard.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The AUK
Age: 80
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Supervision of Maintenance" ?
A person (the supervisor) is supervising the carrying out of maintenance
done by another person if the supervisor:
• is physically present at the place that the maintenance is being carried out;
and
• is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and
• is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out.
How the hell does not being on the scene still fall within the realm of the above requirement regarding Supervision?
Please explain it to this Industry veteran of 52 years, and Multi Category LAME for 47 years. Regards, Big E.
done by another person if the supervisor:
• is physically present at the place that the maintenance is being carried out;
and
• is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and
• is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out.
How the hell does not being on the scene still fall within the realm of the above requirement regarding Supervision?
Please explain it to this Industry veteran of 52 years, and Multi Category LAME for 47 years. Regards, Big E.
Last edited by The Big E; 6th Dec 2012 at 07:53. Reason: Correction
rtv, you are nothing but a troll. 10 posts in 4 years. Go away and take your list of names with you.
And whilst you are compiling your list go into the supervisors office and take the names down of all the acting supervisors, then when you read the workload record all the names of the acting leading hands, because no doubt they would be scum to you as well.
It annoys me that everyone is banging on about the O/T but the select few golden children on out station postings and higher duties are being left alone.
Either put everyone in the same boat or move on. Extra cash is extra cash no matter how it is earned.
Steve, we all know the associations stance on O/T but what is on these other issues?
And whilst you are compiling your list go into the supervisors office and take the names down of all the acting supervisors, then when you read the workload record all the names of the acting leading hands, because no doubt they would be scum to you as well.
It annoys me that everyone is banging on about the O/T but the select few golden children on out station postings and higher duties are being left alone.
Either put everyone in the same boat or move on. Extra cash is extra cash no matter how it is earned.
Steve, we all know the associations stance on O/T but what is on these other issues?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: australia
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all my fellow LAMES,
I would like to pass on my own opinion, it may not be expressed as eloquently as some on here or u might not agree, but i reckon its pretty simple.
We have inherited some pretty good conditions from our forefathers & they had to fight pretty dam hard so we can enjoy these benefits! so out of respect for these inherited conditions( and our mates in the firing line) its pretty easy to say 'NO to the OT'.
Also as a Dad i'm pretty conscious of the moral obligations i'm trying to instill in my kids and to try to do whats right by others and not the usual "i'm right jack", its gonna be pretty hard for all of our kids to get a descent job in this country the way it is and I don't want to contribute to the corporate greed thats happening all over the place.
We can all make a difference and it starts with yourself!
I would like to pass on my own opinion, it may not be expressed as eloquently as some on here or u might not agree, but i reckon its pretty simple.
We have inherited some pretty good conditions from our forefathers & they had to fight pretty dam hard so we can enjoy these benefits! so out of respect for these inherited conditions( and our mates in the firing line) its pretty easy to say 'NO to the OT'.
Also as a Dad i'm pretty conscious of the moral obligations i'm trying to instill in my kids and to try to do whats right by others and not the usual "i'm right jack", its gonna be pretty hard for all of our kids to get a descent job in this country the way it is and I don't want to contribute to the corporate greed thats happening all over the place.
We can all make a difference and it starts with yourself!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whom do they become?
QF94,
Who do they become?
Similarly, an alcoholic's best friend is always another alcoholic. They congregate, form alliances, they network.
Network. Where you are true to others and not necessarily true to yourself.
Whenever you here the word network, spoken from the mouths of the hungry, take note. Its the beginning of the end.
Its also the beginning of the lies, the deceitfulness, the double meanings, the two faces or more, the double standards, the hatred of oneself, the onset of self doubt, and in the end , the one glaring question?
Who am I?
To all those that sleep on a bed of nails, get comfortable and familiar, and 'put some weight on the pricks'.
Kindest regards to the true soldiers,
KR747
Who do they become?
Similarly, an alcoholic's best friend is always another alcoholic. They congregate, form alliances, they network.
Network. Where you are true to others and not necessarily true to yourself.
Whenever you here the word network, spoken from the mouths of the hungry, take note. Its the beginning of the end.
Its also the beginning of the lies, the deceitfulness, the double meanings, the two faces or more, the double standards, the hatred of oneself, the onset of self doubt, and in the end , the one glaring question?
Who am I?
To all those that sleep on a bed of nails, get comfortable and familiar, and 'put some weight on the pricks'.
Kindest regards to the true soldiers,
KR747
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 6th Dec 2012 at 10:24.
Can everyone please keep in mind how unprotected industrial action is viewed these days by the industrial umpire, what the fines are, what constitutes it etc.
Just wait until there are planes going out late due to management's own doing then they bring out the pprune posts and potentially go after people on here to further sink the boot in using your own words as evidence. Don't expect advice from the alaea asking you to all stop doing OT or higher duties.
Read the sticky post at the top for a guide on how the owners of this forum will help you out in any legal matter.
Stay professional
Just wait until there are planes going out late due to management's own doing then they bring out the pprune posts and potentially go after people on here to further sink the boot in using your own words as evidence. Don't expect advice from the alaea asking you to all stop doing OT or higher duties.
Read the sticky post at the top for a guide on how the owners of this forum will help you out in any legal matter.
Stay professional
Last edited by 600ft-lb; 6th Dec 2012 at 09:41.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It annoys me that everyone is banging on about the O/T but the select few golden children on out station postings and higher duties are being left alone.
Either put everyone in the same boat or move on. Extra cash is extra cash no matter how it is earned.
Steve, we all know the associations stance on O/T but what is on these other issues?
Either put everyone in the same boat or move on. Extra cash is extra cash no matter how it is earned.
Steve, we all know the associations stance on O/T but what is on these other issues?
Do we support people taking up outstation postings? Yes we do. An Engineer who works in another port needs to be replaced at home. This creates the need for employment on his original crew.
Do we support people doing higher duties? Yes we do. An Engineer who steps up needs to be replaced. This creates the need for employment on his original crew.
Do we support those seconded? Yes we do. An Engineer who works in some useless secondment needs to be replaced. This creates the need for employment on his original crew.
The people who accept these positions are doing nothing wrong and should be left alone. They are creating employment that can be filled in one of two ways.
1. With full time employees
2. With existing employees working additional hours above the 38 they are contracted for
The ALAEA have been advised that Qantas will be reducing 204 Engineering positions in Sydney. We would rather the people on secondments etc.... be replaced with option 1. If you were one of the 204, I'm sure you would agree. If you are one of the other 700 or so, within 6 months you will also agree.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The people who accept these positions are doing nothing wrong and should be left alone. They are creating employment that can be filled in one of two ways.
1. With full time employees
2. With existing employees working additional hours above the 38 they are contracted for
The ALAEA have been advised that Qantas will be reducing 204 Engineering positions in Sydney. We would rather the people on secondments etc.... be replaced with option 1. If you were one of the 204, I'm sure you would agree. If you are one of the other 700 or so, within 6 months you will also agree.
1. With full time employees
2. With existing employees working additional hours above the 38 they are contracted for
The ALAEA have been advised that Qantas will be reducing 204 Engineering positions in Sydney. We would rather the people on secondments etc.... be replaced with option 1. If you were one of the 204, I'm sure you would agree. If you are one of the other 700 or so, within 6 months you will also agree.
Engineers in SYD have been advised that QANTAS will be reducing 204 Engineering positions. All of us in SYD are potentially one of the 204 to go, and if we don't go now, it will be down the track.
Jobs in QANTAS are slowly being whittled away, and have been for quite a number of years now. Section by section, port by port. SYDHM, MELHM, soon to be AVV, QDS, S.I.T. over the years, EOC, etc.
Here we are talking about some people being banished for doing O/T, but it's OK to stand in for a higher duty or go on a jolly. What a crock, and talk about double standards. Just keep focussing on the few doing O/T, while your jobs are being stripped from you.
When it comes to redundancies, unions are powerless to stop the shedding of jobs, no matter what form of protest you decide to take up to justify your own moral standing.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: here
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With all due respect QF94 we'll agree to disagree.
600ft-lb... of course there is no OT ban. That would be unprotected industrial action. One cannot be forced to work OT however. There are many reasons why someone may not be available to work beyond their normal hours.
It is imperative that given the current climate where anxiety, stress and uncertainty prevail that people manage their fatigue levels effectively, bearing in mind that stress can manifest itself in many ways and have a negative impact on their ability to carry out work and their relationships with family and colleagues.
600ft-lb... of course there is no OT ban. That would be unprotected industrial action. One cannot be forced to work OT however. There are many reasons why someone may not be available to work beyond their normal hours.
It is imperative that given the current climate where anxiety, stress and uncertainty prevail that people manage their fatigue levels effectively, bearing in mind that stress can manifest itself in many ways and have a negative impact on their ability to carry out work and their relationships with family and colleagues.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A person (the supervisor) is supervising the carrying out of maintenance
done by another person if the supervisor:
• is physically present at the place that the maintenance is being carried out;
and
• is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and
• is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out.
done by another person if the supervisor:
• is physically present at the place that the maintenance is being carried out;
and
• is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and
• is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out.
We are often asked about this "Supervision" question. When I have to explain it I like to go to a case that CASA made against a LAME. He lost his licence because of it. The LAME certified for the work of an AME in another hangar. We are talking two light aircraft here so small sheds that were side by side. From this I can say that the LAME must be working the same aircraft at least. Then the level of supervision comes in.
"observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary" cannot mean that the work is not observed at all. If you could do this without observing at all, the word observing would have an optional connotation about it which it has not. Simply, as a minimum you must watch at least some of the maintenance as it is being carried out.
You cannot comply with this legislation by only checking the result of the work without supervision. It says "to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly". It does not say "has been carried out properly".
If you have seen a LAME certify for the work of an AME without providing the required supervision, please report them on form 500's or 2000's and get a copy to us. Now is not the time for pussy footing around and turning a blind eye to these indiscretions. Qantas will not stand by you if something goes wrong.
If you won't lodge a 500 or 2000 because you are concerned that you may become a target of management there is another option. Fill all the details of one out but don't put your name on it. Fax it to us instead and an ALAEA Rep will lodge to internal report with Qantas.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And people who accept to do O/T should be left alone also. These higher duties and outstation postings are usually temporary, so you fill those positions with O/T.
If you wanna work massive amounts of overtime Qf94, that's fine. There is no ban on but please don't get on here and try to convince others that it is the right thing to do. It costs jobs. Pure and simple. You and your words are making it harder for another man to feed his family. Looking forward to reading your latest justification or excuse about 30 minutes after I make this post.
We have inherited some pretty good conditions from our forefathers & they had to fight pretty dam hard so we can enjoy these benefits! so out of respect for these inherited conditions( and our mates in the firing line) its pretty easy to say 'NO to the OT'.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you wanna work massive amounts of overtime Qf94, that's fine. There is no ban on but please don't get on here and try to convince others that it is the right thing to do. It costs jobs. Pure and simple.
When people start having a shot at others because they don't have the herd mentality, then something is amiss.
Damm right, and in my day QF94 would be having lunch and smoko by himself.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: aviation heaven, australia
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
• is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and
• is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out.
These 2 points are very grey. Are you "available" if you are a phone call away?
Forming an opinion as to "whether the maintenance is being carried out properly" could also happen in the smoko room. We all form opinions if an AME can do a job or not.
I do agree with FED SEC and do not agree that work should not be carried out without direct supervision of a certifying engineer, but we all know the reality of what happens, what has been happening and what will happen.
More importantly, a lot of people are going to find out how tough the world is out of QF. Good luck.
• is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out.
These 2 points are very grey. Are you "available" if you are a phone call away?
Forming an opinion as to "whether the maintenance is being carried out properly" could also happen in the smoko room. We all form opinions if an AME can do a job or not.
I do agree with FED SEC and do not agree that work should not be carried out without direct supervision of a certifying engineer, but we all know the reality of what happens, what has been happening and what will happen.
More importantly, a lot of people are going to find out how tough the world is out of QF. Good luck.
Empire4, please explain how you can certify that a bolt has been correctly torqued over the phone.
Furthermore, CASA has crucified a pilot for the Norfolk Island ditching DESPITE discovering major nonconformities in his company's operations manual relating to fuel planning.
To put that another way, you are totally and personally exposed if you certify for something you have not personally observed and if people die because of it, YOU will go to jail. Qantas won't lift a finger for you.
QF94, the golden rule applies. How are you going to feel when some prick starts self justifying actions that grease the skids under you and your family's livelihood?
Furthermore, CASA has crucified a pilot for the Norfolk Island ditching DESPITE discovering major nonconformities in his company's operations manual relating to fuel planning.
To put that another way, you are totally and personally exposed if you certify for something you have not personally observed and if people die because of it, YOU will go to jail. Qantas won't lift a finger for you.
QF94, the golden rule applies. How are you going to feel when some prick starts self justifying actions that grease the skids under you and your family's livelihood?