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Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

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Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

Old 15th Jul 2013, 06:38
  #2281 (permalink)  
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Looks as though the 'in denial' set are in full cry ; ATSB and ASA both with bad school reports now. CASA got theirs some time ago; that's three strikes and no need a second umpires decision. Perhaps I'll send along my Con dolan sense, then again; perhaps not. It seems passing strange that ASA and it's chronic woes get flicked to the GA pages. Aye, it's a strange world, funny old world. And the Poms beat at cricket........

Anyway – couple of good links here for those remotely interested:-


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Old 15th Jul 2013, 08:50
  #2282 (permalink)  
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Another case of foot in mouth disease..

From the last Senate Estimates webpage the DAS does it again...hmm how many corrections/retractions is that now?

Link to Senate page: Senate Committees ? Parliament of Australia

Hmm still no answers to QONs though!
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 09:03
  #2283 (permalink)  
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The magic phrase ‘flight time’ strikes again.

1,900 pages of new regulations, and counting, and the silliness continues.

The letter is almost certainly the fallout from the coalition’s attempt to embarrass the Attorney-General as a consequence of allegations that he did not turn off his mobile phone when “instructed” to do so by cabin staff while the aircraft was being pushed back. It’s only a wild guess, but the AG probably whispered words to this effect to Mr Albanese who probably whispered them to his chief of staff who probably whispered them to Mr McCormick: “Tell McCormick to read 309A and correct the record.”

Last edited by Creampuff; 15th Jul 2013 at 09:35.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 13:39
  #2284 (permalink)  
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Poor old Mr Skull, once again he dines on a robust sh#t sandwich. Isn't he getting full by now? For a DAS he certainly seems to get a lot of the regulations incorrect doesn't he? Oh well, the Witchdoctor once again pens a response to the Senators on behalf of his 'dear leader'.

Now Sarcs, you font of all things mysterious and on notice, I see you are still eagerly awaiting responses to the QON's, yes? Well;
•What could be the delay? Are last minute coatings of varnish being applied to the answers?
•Is Fort Fumble thumbing their noses at the good Senators by obsfucating and stretching for time? Perhaps even treating them with contempt, as if they are some ills of society?
• Is FF introducing quick behind the scenes fixes and patches to their busted system, just so that they can produce a piece of evidence which says 'see, all is fixed, nothing left to see here, move along please'?
• Is FF simply such a colossal cluster f#ck that they just cannot reply to the Senators QON'S because they are quite simply unable, incapable, and out of their depth to do so?
• Are the truthful answers to the Senators questions so blatantly obvious and damning against FF that they are stalling because they have no more cracks to hide in, no more rocks to hide beneath?
• Perhaps FF are working on an old chess move, you know the old 'nail another operator to the wall so as to deflect CAsA from uncomfortable scrutiny and to prove that they truly are a proactive, safety focused organisation'? That old chestnut!
• Or finally is the delay because they have received a hair donation courtesy of Dr Alecks beard and curly locks and they are awaiting transplant of the donation to Messrs Boyd, Campbell and McCormick's bald melons?

Please Mr CAsA, answer Senator Xenophon's question which seeks to know if there are any pages or bits missing from the version of the Chambers Report you gave him??? Please answer that. Is it so hard to answer? Why the ridiculous amount of time? Surely a capital 'R' regulator would have copies of these important documents on file and be able to produce them easily? I mean that is expected of an operator isn't it?

Last edited by 004wercras; 15th Jul 2013 at 13:53.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 21:17
  #2285 (permalink)  
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Pandora's little box of pickles.

004 # 2302• "Are the truthful answers to the Senators questions so blatantly obvious and damning against FF that they are stalling because they have no more cracks to hide in, no more rocks to hide beneath?"
We may have to wait a little while longer; I mean there's got to be some study time. There's a lot of stuff to be considered, lots of weasel words to cherry pick before 'the' definitive answer is found. The hunt may well be on for a replacement whipping boy and volunteers are, understandably, scarce. Such a pity the Hooded one didn't hang about to cop the pineapple; now that would have solved many a problem. But alas, he's scampered off with the keys to the skeleton closet and cannot be used as the catamite of choice.

004 # 2302 "Are the truthful answers to the Senators questions so blatantly obvious and damning against FF that they are stalling because they have no more cracks to hide in, no more rocks to hide beneath?"
This particular pickle is not covered by the Wodger Academy approved method of pick a crime and backfill proof as needed, this has become a lot more technical. How to get the goodies out of Pandora's box without the 'undesirable' elements escaping will be creating some headaches. Problem is of course, the GWM don't know what NX 'knows' and must think carefully before telling too many more fairy stories, lest they get caught out (again). It's a bit late though; everyone knows the answers, it's simply a matter of proof positive now. If the villain won't confess the bobbies just have to work a bit harder, digging up the dirt which only makes 'em cranky and determined.

004 # 2302 "Senator Xenophon's question which seeks to know if there are any pages or bits missing from the version of the Chambers Report you gave him???
Seek and ye shall find. Never mind Nick, if the GWM won't fess up and honestly answer your modest inquiry, the IOS mob will happily supply more of the answers and you can go on from there. It's all a bit like Pel Air and Air Services reports, "suddenly" there are chronic problems, which, had CASA been doing what it was paid to do, would not exist. I wonder, just what is it they do apart from hammer the Tigers, Quadrio's and Barriers of this world; talk about Nero and Rome (although, I hear that was a bit of a fiddle too).

Pot, Kettle black??

Last edited by Kharon; 15th Jul 2013 at 21:19. Reason: ABC courtesy TIMA9X, who does great work. Cheers
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 01:47
  #2286 (permalink)  
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Australia: A failed state in aviation?

The bully boys strike again!

Mr Sandilands latest below. Brief, but to the point!

Australia: A failed state in aviation safety? | Plane Talking

And an article by Phelan, picked up by Ben, and succinctly worded. Yet again, CAsA - the renowned bully boy and serial purveyor of incompetence and supporter of the Bankstown buggerisation of industry;

CASA fails expensively in efforts to curb private heli pilot | Plane Talking

As for the AAT, well there was a measure of fairness when Mr Hart was around, but not any more. It is absurd and preposterous that $500 000 be spent chasing Mr Green, when CAsA's charter is to protect the fare paying public. And this is just one case.
Again there is no accountability required on the behalf of the regulator, and there is no recourse if you get wronged by them, as in the case of Mr Green and a litany of others. This system must be changed. CAsA must be made accountable for its decisions, and when they blatantly abuse the system, as well as the public purse and wrong a person then compensation has to be made available to the victim. Only then will CAsA finally have their wings clipped and draconian powers stripped away. The current system is immoral, unethical, biased, stacked and designed to be abused by the 'model litigant'.
Democratic society my ass!

Please Senator X, keep sharpening and shaping your pineapples and when the timing is right please grab said pineapples robustly with both hands, apply immense pressure and jam those bad boys where they belong

Last edited by 004wercras; 16th Jul 2013 at 02:17.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 13:16
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Strict Liability

Isn't it odd that Dom James and others have been strict liability tested, yet the owners of the CAA Act and TSI Act themselves seem to avoid the toughest penalties? If this isn't what the Acts' are written for, then what is?????? The Senate have produced black and white evidence demonstrating breaches of the TSI Act by numerous individuals. They deserve to have the Act thrown at them for dragging Australia to these third world levels.

Last edited by Jinglie; 17th Jul 2013 at 01:33.
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Old 17th Jul 2013, 05:35
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Arise, Sir Campbell !

CASA Chess Game new move;

In keeping with CAsA tradition, another product of the Cairns office has achieved greatness within the ranks at Bully Boy Central!
Please put your hands together and welcome Gerrard Campbell as the new GM Operations, replacing the Hooded one.
The bald one comes with a distinguished record of having presided over one of the Nations worst CAsA offices (Townsville and Bankstown tie for a close second place).

Those familiar with his style (which incidentally matches the GWM job PD) will be aware of his 'operations and leadership style' and his strengths and weaknesses.
Personally, I am going to place a framed photo of the new Fuhrer in my workshop to ensure I am not shipped off to a COA or AOC concentration camp by any Gestapo Inspectors conducting random checks. I am also going to place Swastika's on all my manuals and log book, start preparing my ass cheeks for incoming Jackboot imprints!

The GWM, Mr Skull, Herr Boyd, the Chamber Pot and the Weeksling must be rubbing their sweaty palms with joy, group hugging, chanting and celebrating with a blood letting! This is a truly joyous occasion, I can see the celebrations party taking place in Montreal, at the Mothership ICAO where truffles and fine wines will be indulged gratuitously, and scented candles will surround a huge trough filled with overflowing treats. Yes the newly knighted one will be inducted into CAsA's Hall Of Shame, where many executives have stood before, each to eventually fall on their robust sword. But in the meantime life is to short to waste on safety, compliance and transparency. It's party time FF style!
Mr Campbell will just love his $250k salary (excluding super and bonus) approximately $30k bonus and around $41k superannuation. Well done sir. I feel a giant oink oink coming on!

So industry, again, let us salute this latest offering from Fort Fumble, let us dance naked in the streets, let us offer up a sacrifice (perhaps a regional airline somewhere) in praise of this announcemt!


Last edited by 004wercras; 17th Jul 2013 at 05:39.
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Old 17th Jul 2013, 09:15
  #2289 (permalink)  
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I was in cairns a few weeks ago. You could feel the fear among the remaining GA operators.
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 01:51
  #2290 (permalink)  
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how true,

uita.! False accusations must be in the CASA "Lets kIck arse" manual...they just keep doing it ,time and time again.

And as for promotions, as folk know, in any sewerage farm, its obvious what floats to the top.
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 05:34
  #2291 (permalink)  
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Perhaps some of you, not entirely unadjacent to Archerfield, could give us a summary of his administrative achievements at RACQ and Archerfield Airport Corp. that qualified said gentlemen for high office in CASA.

Starting, say, with formal qualifications?? and;
Peer standing.
Followed by, say, conspicuous positive business achievements and successes, and;
What else??
Remember to really drill down!!

Tootle pip!!

Tootle pip!!
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 07:07
  #2292 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the reminder Leadie. I recall his famous words at Archerfield when he released a statement after Hempel 'flew his last flight'.
He said "Hempel was a well loved character, and a bit of a legend". Hmmmmm, need I say any more?
Did a stellar job with the Archerfield master plan, NOT.

Last edited by 004wercras; 18th Jul 2013 at 07:09.
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 07:39
  #2293 (permalink)  
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Slight thread drift, but please bear with me.

If you see or hear about anybody in "the aviation industry" who exhibits any or more than 5 of these traits, it's your duty to report them to CASA or their DAME or The Media, lest you be accused of with-holding evidence that could lead to, or has led to a catastrophic event.

Imagine having the privilege's of a pilot granted to such a person and that person exercising the rights that go with that privilege

Common traits that are associated with psychopathic behavior include the following:
•Exuberant and charming personality
•Selfish and narcissistic
•Short attention span
•Adept at lying; lies habitually
•Lacks or shows little conscience
•Emotionally distant
•Can be cruel at times; doesn't show much, if any, sympathy
•Practices deviant sexual behavior
•Doesn't exhibit any concrete goals for the future
•Acts impulsively and at times irresponsibly
•Doesn't take responsibility for own behavior
•Repeated evidence of failed relationships; unable to maintain a long-term relationship
•May be extremely possessive
•May have been in trouble as a child, preteen, and teen
•May have a criminal record
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Old 18th Jul 2013, 12:49
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Several of the previous posters to this and other threads would seem to display some of the traits you mention.

Your point is??

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Old 18th Jul 2013, 22:50
  #2295 (permalink)  
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Don't think its relevant.
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 06:54
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Think what you want, I made a simple statement.

The point is;

Tell me that you would consider, for example, a Northern Queensland office of Motor Transport, where all employees wore toothbrush "Hitler style" mustaches. Imagine they routinely and avidly persecuted their "clients" by displaying those dot point traits, cost those "clients" their incomes, family, friends and made them criminals. Such was the futility of fighting for real justice, (not "in my opinion summary justice"), those "clients" became depressed to the stage where they were "deemed" unfit to drive due to depression caused by their persecutors.

If depression, which can be cured, is cause for that person never to drive again, what would you say about psychopath's, (who probably can't be "cured"), who regularly drive and assess others ability to drive.

Is a psychopath a fit and proper person to drive and make determinations about others? Where in the spectrum of things would you place the "depression afflicted" person?

Finally, if that "client" knew he would forfeit his privileges by admission to his affliction, would he/she not hide that fact from his peers and the regulator?

Would this enhance driver "safety"?

Last edited by Frank Arouet; 19th Jul 2013 at 06:57. Reason: Insert boat, truck aeroplane regulator as desired.
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 13:08
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Frank, you have seriously highlighted a major issue in the industry. There are some genuine people working out there who have mental health issues, good people who simply have some synapses not functioning to the full. It's not a sin or a crime, and they deserve a measure of understanding.
Then you have the psychopath and the sociopath who unfortunately slip through the cracks and end up in the industry. It is these fruitcakes that we see operating without restraint on a daily basis. How do we, as a group, go out mitigating this issue is a good question and a very complex matter.

Frank I do know this - you are naughty, very naughty for posting the Job PD for CAsA Managers in post #2312. I thought CAsA keeps that sort of documentation buried in TRIM?

Historical archive of a CAsA DAS addressing ICAO:


Last edited by 004wercras; 19th Jul 2013 at 13:21. Reason: Avoiding the giant jackboot in the middle of the room
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 22:22
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Frank, it gets worse. You now have one as Prime Minister.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 04:12
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Very true Sunny. The PM is a very interesting study on this topic. I have no doubt in my mind that he fits the bill.
Socio's usually attract other socio's as well, it is a fascinating study. And there is a vast difference between sociopaths and psychopaths, a topic for another day.
The very nature of aviation with its power players, executive positions, people responsible for controlling other people's outcomes etc breeds and attracts these individuals. The damage that one solitary individual can inflict within the environment is beyond belief, but it happens, they are out there, and very very hard to identify.
Unfortunately the Regulator is not beyond the reach of sociopaths.

This link is a good starting point if you really want to learn about how dangerous these individuals are;

Last edited by 004wercras; 20th Jul 2013 at 04:14.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 06:25
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Suffering from sociopathitis…

Rather than having to don a tin hat, like poor old Jaba is currently having to do (although he appears to be holding his own), over on the predominantly Jet Jockey YMIA emergency landing thread, I thought I would make a couple of observations somewhat in support of Jaba and to point out some similarities in the bureau prelim report and the Norfolk investigation debacle.

To begin with I am in complete agreement with most people’s posts on that thread, that is the crew were sold a sh*t sandwich (ironically not un-like DJ) by ASA, BOM, Company bean counters/fuel policy and to some extent FF and by lack of infrastructure overseen by DoIT.

Under the circumstances both crew did a stellar job with two different in-flight management strategies, which ended up with the same result i.e. both aircraft safely on the ground….my lid goes off to them!

However Jaba makes IMO a valid point about a prudent decision to uplift more fuel in certain times of the year, I would add that maybe that should be company policy and not left up to the skipper to make the call.

The reason being is that those decisions are made on the hop when your sitting in a warmer climate probably CAVOK and just getting back into work mode and not really projecting towards the trip ahead. Combine that with a TAF that reads like this (from ATSB report):
Time: 1925 - YIR crew at flight briefing

Adelaide TAF

TAF YPAD 171703Z 1718/1824
VRB05KT 9999 FEW030 SCT045
T 06 06 11 14 Q 1018 1018 1020 1020
Then we had the METAR which pretty much reinforces the picture that is already building in the skipper’s head:
Adelaide METAR

METAR YPAD 171900Z 07004KT 9999 FEW022 05/04 Q1018
RMK RF00.0/000.0
IMO the one degree split on actual vs dew point temperature and the light breeze from the east (off the hills and probably katabatic) and little to no significant cloud cover are all factors that should be perking the interest of the skipper but to be fair he is under the pump and trying to get out the door and get his aircraft away on time.

Here is a basic description for radiation fog:
Radiation Fog

On a cloudless night, especially within a high pressure system, the land surface loses heat to the atmosphere by radiation and cools. Moist air in contact with cooling surface also cools and when the temperature falls below the dew point for that air, fog forms. This type of fog is known as radiation fog.

Formation of Radiation Fog

Initially it may be mist that forms and then thicker fog as the temperature drops and more water vapour condenses into water droplets in the air. Air does not conduct heat very well so in still air conditions fog may not form at all and a layer of dew or frost will form on the surface instead. However, if there is a light wind of around 5 kts, then this will mix the air in contact with the surface and the layer of fog will be thicker. With stronger winds, the fog may lift to form layers of Stratus.
So my two bobs worth…take the commercially pressured decision away from the Skipper and set up a risk based company fuel policy that allows for extra alternate/holding fuel for certain times of the year particularly in the southern latitudes and bloody well fix the blackhole that is fast becoming the aviation infrastructure expected in a third world country…FFS!

One other thing I noticed in the prelim report is that the bureau have 'bloody well done it again', read this footnote (page 10 of the ‘report’) for their definition of a SPECI:
Special Reports (SPECI) are aerodrome weather reports that are issued whenever weather conditions fluctuate about or are below specified criteria. These specified criteria relate to broken or overcast cloud conditions below specific heights or visibility less than specific distances. These heights and distances are specific to each location and require the provision of an alternate aerodrome. Special weather reports will also be issued when there are specified wind changes, hazardous weather events occur at aerodromes, when wind shear is reported, when the temperature changes significantly, the air pressure changes significantly or any incidence of any other phenomena likely to be significant to the operation of an aircraft.
Then read the basic definition off the ‘BOM website’:

A METAR is a routine report of meteorological conditions at an aerodrome.
A SPECI is a special report of meteorological conditions, issued when one or more elements meet specified criteria significant to aviation. SPECI is also used to identify reports of observations recorded ten minutes following an improvement (in visibility, weather or cloud) to above SPECI conditions.
The highlighted part was what Beaker failed to mention almost countless times throughout the Senate hearings and in all the bureau’s submissions….sheesh and it was particularly relevant to the erroneously relayed 0630 METAR delivered at 0801 UTC by Nadi, that was closely followed by a SPECI report (2 minutes I think?)!

Doin a Kelpie….

Last edited by Sarcs; 20th Jul 2013 at 07:15. Reason: Remember 50:50 split?
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