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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:42
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Shed Dog Tosser, you should note that under Gillard's Fair Work Act a lockout is the only IR measure available to the QF board.
In all due respect PAF, that is not the case, what you are stating there is a very clever play on words by AJ.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:42
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Pass-A-Frozzo.
.... , you should note that under Gillard's Fair Work Act a lockout is the only IR measure available to the QF board.
They could also 'negotiate in good faith'! Qantas should try that some time!

onetrack I think creative accounting and Jetstar 'support' would be part of the profit results they are claiming.

Last edited by flyingfox; 30th Oct 2011 at 04:55. Reason: punctuation
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:46
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So, now that it appears that Qantas Board has been planning this for some 12 days, I do wonder where that leaves them with the ASX and with ASIC. Surely there's some accountability there?

Source (tweet from FWA hearings): Q: while the lockout was planned since Oct 18, actual decision to pull trigger not made until sat morning by Joyce
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:49
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'negotiate in good faith'
I love that logic. We'll keep punching you with strikes, you keep talking.

I don't agree with the union striking, I also don't agree with a lockout. But if you are going to strike, then you should expect that a lockout is a possibility. If union members were not aware that QANTAS could be locked out in response to their constant industrial action then that is a matter that should be taken up with their representatives.

As I said before - it's reminds me of the school kid on the bus punching someone in the back of the head for 10 minutes then crying fowl when that person turns around and punches them back.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:51
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Find it funny Qantas using the fatigue card , as seem to remember during a roster dispute in Perth a few years ago ,they and the commissioner Raffiel did not recognize fatigue as a defence and made a ruling that way .
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:52
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From Fair Work Australia - Interesting .. those representing the Minister request that some QF evidence is withdrawn [regarding discussions with Gov't] due to the Parl. Priv. Act.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:54
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OMG, Gillard's press conference not good.

She is seeking "an end" to the industrial action rather than a suspension.

She also shot down Albanese's response yesterday, and Xenophon's call for an enquiry.

Gillard is rolling over. She is a disgrace to Labour.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:55
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Pass-a-frozzo: "it's reminds me of the school kid on the bus punching someone in the back of the head for 10 minutes then crying fowl when that person turns around and punches them back"

No, it's more like someone kicking the back of your seat for 10 minutes and then you turning around, pulling out a shotgun and blasting their head off.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 04:55
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uh oh, senator xenophon wants the qantas books audited.
this is getting better all the time.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:00
  #430 (permalink)  
 
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No, it's more like someone kicking the back of your seat for 10 minutes and then you turning around, pulling out a shotgun and blasting their head off.
HyperBowl Much? Not at all. That would be sacking all the staff, liquidating all the assets and having Shareholders vote for it because it would give them a higher return than running the company.

I recognise that you probably like the idea of Unions striking, disabling the airline at times of their choosing, all whilst being paid is appealing. You need to recognise that at some stage you're going to take return fire.

I suspect that model of people like Purvenis enjoying 'slow baking' a company is now over -- for good. If Industrial Action is suspended [and no resolution is reached], and at any stage in the future any of the unions says they will strike, Joyce can just lock everyone out again.

When it comes down to it, either the government will intervene, or the striking workers will start defaulting on mortgages. At the end of the day, this is the Fair Work Act at work.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:06
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Pass-A-Frozzo, please don't assume you know where I am coming from, for you'll likely get it wrong
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:07
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Pass-A-Frozzo, please don't assume you know where I am coming from
Perhaps review your stated opinion which leads to that conclusion.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:13
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we relied on tr civil aviation safety authority advice regarding fatigue. Undertook to constantly review effect of dispute....

Lol, CASA.........A wholey owned subsiduary of Qantas airways, answerable only to AJ
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:16
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Just watching ABC.........

It seems Qantas PLANNED the grounding last week but didnt ACTIVATE the strategy until Saturday, so, technically, Joyce is correct.............the decision was made after the AGM
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:21
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So, Qantas grounded the fleet because they believed that pilots, contrary to regulations, would attend for work fatigued.

Do they believe that all the time? Or only this week?
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:22
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This is a disturbing move by Qantas. Lets not forget this is not a move by AJ, this is a move that would have been sanctioned by the Board who seem to have given AJ full backing.

Unfortuantly this also seems to be quite a brilliant strategic move, it has caught the unions off guard and seems destined to end in the termination of all industrial action and the whole thing referred to binding arbitration which will likely result in Qantas being authorised to do whatever the hell it wants with the future outsourcing of the business. I would think that AJ and the Board would consider the bad publicity and $50 million bucks a bargain to get that.

As an aside Jetconnect and Jetstar are getting really 'positive' press over here in New Zealand for being subsidiaries that aren't heavily unionised and therefore are not inconveniencing passengers with old style union action

Good luck guys and girls, looks to me though that the unions have been 'flanked' in this battle.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:29
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Hilarious! Joyce claims the decision to ground the entire fleet was due to a safety risk assessment arising as a result of the staff lockout. Presumably then there is a safety risk assessment for when that staff lockout is lifted "AND" the dispute between the parties is not resolved. That would make for interesting reading.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:30
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from the tweets

thompsonbenji Ben Thompson
#qantas Strambi is a group exec of qantas and doesn't seem to know much! Moses for AIPA cleaning up.
thompsonbenji Ben Thompson
#qantas Strambi is struggling to give firm answers under cross examination.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:33
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Qantas According To Joyce - Virgin?

So how much less do Virgin Australia pilots/engineers and ground staff get paid compared to QF? or indeed are they on the same money?

Is Virgin Australia Union free? or have they done a deal?

Love to know what life if like from the VA point of view.

Qantas is just now just another international airline, soon no doubt to employ pilots/engineers/groundcrew from former Soviet Union block nations and pay then in vodka.

So everyone gets upset with the Unions, so take the unions away...what do you get? rubbish wages, less conditions, longer hours and because CASA is a toothless tiger (no pun intended) you will get angry un-motivated staff working on QF aircraft for minimum wage and food stamps, all to be played out on an Air Crash Investigation program in the not too distant future.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 05:35
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It seems Qantas PLANNED the grounding last week but didnt ACTIVATE the strategy until Saturday, so, technically, Joyce is correct.............the decision was made after the AGM
Or it could be taken as Qantas PLANNED and DECIDED the grounding before the AGM. After the AGM, the decision (already made) was merely APPROVED by the board.

Either way, Joyce should have warned shareholders at the AGM, the action Qantas would take in response to further threatened union disruption.
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