Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:03
  #401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Toxic Workplace

Toxic Workplace is an understatement!! If QF survives this, with Joyce at the helm no one is going to stretch themselves to get the job done. "To hard, ground the Aircraft" or "Someone else can sort this out" will be the call. I can see it now!
They do not want QF to survive! It is business suicide to make a move like this. As someone said before, these guys are ruthless, this was a planned move and was done with precicion. No one in their right mind in any business would make such a move if they intended the business to conyinue in the same vane. You reckon they did it just to stuff around the LAME's, Pilot's and TWU? Not likely! They know exactly what they are doing. Dropped a bomb!! We are mere Pawns in their game and we got in the way.

Very sad days for people who actually give a **** and were proud of their Proffessions and Qantas!!!!!
Boardman is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:03
  #402 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr.Buzzy
Which part of 500 million was not viable?
QANTAS Return on Assets: 1.22%
QANTAS Return on Equity: 4.14%
Commonwealth Bank NetSaver account: 4.75%



Let's not pretend that QANTAS is a star performer.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:05
  #403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by allthecoolnamesarego
Can you shed more light on the writs being handed out to the 767 pilot/s?
Thanks
I believe under the Fair Work act they are required to notify each employee in writing [that they are locked out]. I'm sure someone else can confirm / deny that.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:11
  #404 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Outofoz
Posts: 724
Received 15 Likes on 8 Posts
Nice graph Pass O. When did Geoff Dixon takeover?
It's marvellous what indefinite cost cutting, staff engagement levels, wrong aircraft, ever diminishing route structure achieves.
The current board have no solutions to the dive you kindly illustrated.
hotnhigh is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:16
  #405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For those that missed it, Alan Joyce on The Bolt Report this morning [will be broadcast on 10 at 4:30pm too]

The Bolt Report - YouTube
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:17
  #406 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Free Issue
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Leigh Howard twittering from FWA

Twitter
sani-com is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:19
  #407 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,583
Received 11 Likes on 2 Posts
I suspect they're not 'issuing writs' per se- at least not in the '89 context. All industrial action is 'protected' and we can't be sacked for it or held liable for damages as it's legal IA.

That said, crew who may have been required to turn up for work tomorrow or the next day may in fact be getting letters informing them that they're not required. That IS a legal requirement for Qantas. Our email inboxes indicate that a letter has been forwarded to our addresses on file with Qantas.

We'll see what happens from here.
Keg is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:23
  #408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe under the Fair Work act they are required to notify each employee in writing
[that they are locked out]. I'm sure someone else can confirm / deny that.

Correct, I just received mine by courier.
Taco Muncher is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:25
  #409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From Fair Work Australia hearing - Apparently CASA sent a letter to QF concerned how union strikes would effect safety.

Also, the QF board considered a lockout with only 3 hours notice.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:26
  #410 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
Received 34 Likes on 11 Posts
1. Under the FW Act how can QF lock out staff that are not engaged in PIA such as the short haul pilots?
Hi dartman, shorthaul pilots are not being locked out, they have just grounded the fleet, Pay will continue as per the shorthaul award.
Angle of Attack is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:28
  #411 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In general a commercial investment is measured by its return on outlay. Standard minimum for basic viability is regarded as 10%. QF is under 5% return for the shareholders. If this outfit cannot pull 1.1B PA NETT its not worth the effort.

SN
PPRuNeUser0161 is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:30
  #412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well done to the Unions, by taking very small, reasonable and measured action against QANTAS.

You have been able coax AJ into making, what is in my opinion, a completely unmeasured, unreasonable and non intelligent response that is far out of proportion to the actions of the Unions. The Government and the general public are seeing red and will not forget AJ's actions.

The traveling public have seen AJ and the board for what they are...........

Stand united, they can not beat you.

Even if the PIA is terminated, you are not obliged to do overtime or save fuel or accept aircraft with defects.....................

Good hunting !!!.

Do not forget this little gem: The Union Pilot
Shed Dog Tosser is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:31
  #413 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At Fair Work Australia - QANTAS is arguing that if they performed the lockout [without an immediate shutdown] with plenty of notice, it would effect safety.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:32
  #414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Guys, my symapthy to those locked out...went through it with Ansett NZ in 1999...we lasted 6 weeks then caved in and accepted the 3rd reduced contract the company was peddling. The airline was never the same again and finally turned up it's toes in 2001.
The problem is that Qantas will now have all it's passengers and valuable corporate customers looking for other options. And once they have gone, they won't be coming back. If Qantas continues, it will be at a much reduced size and with a much reduced workforce.
I don't know about the Australian Industrial laws, but I expect the locked-out employees to be offered a contract sooner or later on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. There with be backstabbings and scabbings but in the end there will be those with jobs and those without. Those with jobs will have their conditions and pay reduced, but the airline will never again be a happy place to work, or a source of pride to employees. You will realise what I now know...the company doesn't give a single iota of consideration to your pride, loyalty or even your professionalism. You are nothing more than a resource to them, and a debit to their bottom line. If they could run the company without you, they would.
My advice therefore, is to swallow your pride, take what they offer, and get back to what will effectively be "paid job-search". You will never get back what you had. A line has been crossed, and unfortunately for you, there is no going back. There are no "jobs for life" anymore, so look for the best option for you and your family, and grab it now. The longer you wait, the fewer options there will be.
This is a serious step to take, and not easy given the "sheltered past" many have had in Qantas. Unfortunately there are not many options. If you fight, there is no winning, because "the company" has nothing more to lose. They have already put everything on the line, and whatever happens, the airline can never be the same again.
Everyone thought it would never happen, but it has.
RIP Qantas.
distracted cockroach is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:32
  #415 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Shed Dog Tosser, you should note that under Gillard's Fair Work Act a lockout is the only IR measure available to the QF board.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:36
  #416 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The graph and the comments about Qantas' poor financial performance reflect nothing less than a paucity of management ability. The lockout demonstrates this paucity, even more so.
These board members are supposed to be the best that the corporate world can produce, in terms of superb management ability. We are constantly reminded, that, "paying peanuts only gets you monkeys".
Once again, as this current scenario proves - you can pay huge dollars, and still get monkeys.
onetrack is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:36
  #417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

@leigh_howardleigh_howard
Q: risk assessment by #Qantas completed on 18 Oct. That assessment suggested a lockout with 3. So the lockout was in plan prior to AGM

Look forward to ASX "Please explain" tomorrow
Comoman is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:36
  #418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Soup Nazi
In general a commercial investment is measured by its return on outlay. Standard minimum for basic viability is regarded as 10%. QF is under 5% return for the shareholders. If this outfit cannot pull 1.1B PA NETT its not worth the effort.
Risk vs Return. QANTAS is considered higher risk that the market average due to terrorism, number of state sponsored competitors, and largely due to the heavily [ and militant] unionised workforce. QF should be looking to exceed 10% by a fair shot given the risk profile.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:37
  #419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Owen Stanley's "Real World"
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Look forward to ASX "Please explain" tomorrow


Won't be an issue. Contingency planning is what responsible management does. I believe the board only voted on the action on Saturday.
Pass-A-Frozzo is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2011, 03:39
  #420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Aust
Posts: 190
Received 41 Likes on 21 Posts
#Qantas making out argument that the pilot action (and others) were posing safety threats (fatigue) and thus had to be stopped via lockout

...by wearing red ties and making PA's?
SixDemonBag is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.