Merged: Senate Inquiry
Yes mr hat that is true.
Pay is quoted per min contract flt hrs which appears at approx 21-25 for a 1st yr FO for eg but that is for usually 75hrs /mo flt. at approx 40hrs duty per week that is approx 10-12/hr. Disgusting given the responsibility involved.
Pay is quoted per min contract flt hrs which appears at approx 21-25 for a 1st yr FO for eg but that is for usually 75hrs /mo flt. at approx 40hrs duty per week that is approx 10-12/hr. Disgusting given the responsibility involved.
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Toughen up Princesses
Message Recounts Fatigue Flying in Early Morning Hours
In an e-mail to pilots, the airline’s chief pilot for Perth, Australia, Jetstar operations, claims he is tired throughout a back-of-the-clock (midnight to 6 a.m. flight) but not fatigued. The captain for the airline admonished his fellow pilots, “Toughen up, princesses!”
The 7 January 2011 e-mail was made public at a hearing into aviation training standards by the Australian Senate. “It’s hugely concerning that we have pilots telling each other to ‘toughen up princesses’ because they raise concerns about lengthy shift hours and the impact that could have on the safety of passengers,” Senator Nick Xenophon said in a statement.
JetStar CEO Bruce Buchanan was not aware of the memorandum, to which Xenophon declared, “The potential intimidation in this e-mail is alarming and indicates that there may be a bullying culture among pilots.”
This accusation seems a stretch. If the Perth base was closed and pilots shifted to Melbourne, much of the back-of-the-clock (BOC) flying would be eliminated, to be sure. At the same time, pilots residing at in Perth would be faced with the expense of moving base (and family) to Melbourne.
It should be noted that pilots of cargo airplanes do most of their flying BOC to meet early-morning package delivery schedules.
The senior captain’s e-mail provides evidence that people are not a sound judge of their fatigue – a point made by many sleep researchers. The sleep science community argues that shift workers should be assigned schedules that avoid the effects of fatigue, as people are poor judges of their own impairment.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has unsuccessfully wrestled with the problem of pilot fatigue. In May 1988 the FAA issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that proposed new regulations to combat pilot fatigue. The NPRM was a response to a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) “Most Wanted” recommendation to update the rules for scheduling based on the science of fatigue research. Over 310 pages of solicited comments were received to the NPRM, but the FAA was unable to reconcile differing views and withdrew the NPRM in November 2009. There has been no regulatory action since, and the NTSB has characterized the FAA response as “unacceptable.” Relatives of the victims of the last fatal US airliner crash in Buffalo NY are anticipating that sweeping new laws just won’t make it past both Houses. Many Congressmen are concerned about the economic effect such grass-roots change would have upon the airlines and so the lobbying for the status quo ante is intense. The impact of preventing pilots from commuting long distances by air and road to fly their flights would hamstring airline schedulers. It’s presently manageable, even when weather intervenes. Throwing another manning spanner in the works would guarantee crewing mayhem both in the short and medium term. As is often the case, one fix can beget another rupture elsewhere. Even the majority of pilots can themselves argue for a “let sleeping dogs lie” solution. The extent of the lawmaker’s thorny problem can be seen indepth at Pilot fatigue bill stalls in Congress
The JQ Senior Pilot’s email merely encapsulates a similar dilemma. Pilots must play ball or face undefined career consequences for being disruptive. Suppression of fatigue via the fear factor is no solution. But bursting into e-print on the subject is also no doubt destined to distort one’s career path. Fatigue remains the great unspoken. Better that one should claim to be “tired and emotional” (a popular euphemism for hung-over). At least Senior Pilots will appreciate that you didn’t want to run the risk of getting breathalysed planeside - and will endorse your staying away as a wise decision. However just being “tired” is apparently no excuse…. and evinces a certain shameful lack of stamina (and a deficiency of the “right stuff”).
Below, the “toughen up” e-mail in all its colorful glory:
RE: DPS-SIN-PER-MEL-PER Pairing
[Flight schedule from Denpasar, Singapore, Perth, Melbourne and back to Perth]
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2011, 1:15 AM
This e-mail comes with a warning! If you are easily offended then delete this e-mail and read no further.
Toughen up princesses!
You aren’t fatigued, you are tired and can’t be bothered going to work.
The hardest thing about doing [flight] JQ117 backed up by the BOC [back of the clock, e.g. from midnight to 6 a.m.] is the time away from the family. There is ample time for rest if you utilize it correctly. I understand this is easy to say but sacrifices have to be made. We are all shift workers and that doesn’t always fit in with normal life. If you became an airline pilot thinking that you will be home every night and not have to fly through the night, then that is pretty naive. Might be time to go instructing.
I agree that the current BOC is a horror shift, but let’s look at the big picture. JQ [JetStar] now has about 50 odd airplanes. Airplanes don’t make money sitting on the tarmac, they need to keep flying. I have no idea how it works obtaining [airport] slots but I’m sure JQ can’t just have flights going to where they want, when they want. There must only be certain slots available which scheduling must then somehow work out how to fill. This current BOC is a combination of 2 MEL shifts which we have been given to fill a gap until further international routes, or domestic, become available. There is a high probability that we will only be doing this shift until mid year (fingers crossed!).
Now the powers to that be could have used this as a perfect opportunity to down-size the base, or even close it. But it shows that JQ is committed to the base and want it to work. Having said that, if I was Bruce and a bunch of pilots, who have taken a lot of days off, only fly 60-75 hours a month, started to call in ‘fatigued’ and didn’t want those days to come out of personal leave days, then I would start to look at other options. If flights started to be cancelled, then I would not hesitate in closing the base and have all flying done from MEL. Be careful of what you wish for!
In the last 4 weeks I have done 7 BOCs, 2 lots of back to back and one after JG117. I personally found the back to back the hardest and after JQ117 no dramas. By trial and error, I have worked out what works for me so I can manage the shift. I can say I hate the shift and I definitely don’t operate to my normal standard. I am tired throughout the shift, feel terrible, but would not call it fatigued.
All I ask is that you give the BOC flying a go and do everything that you can to make sure you are rested before the duty. If you honestly believe you can’t operate safely, not just because you feel terrible, then call in UFD [unfit for duty]. But it is UNFIT FOR DUTY! I can’t see how it can not be taken from your personal leave. I don’t see how it can be right that if you couldn’t get enough rest, for whatever reason, call in UFD then get a free day off. In the mean time I get called in off a standby. If I then refuse the duty I will be in all sorts of trouble. JQ rosters the required rest, you must use it but if still unfit for duty, then you are unfit for duty which needs to come out of your sick leave.
We have it pretty easy over here. Try Darwin for a while with 4 BOCs in a row, or MEL with 4 earlies followed by a late and while doing 100 hours. Then tell me how hard it is to do JQ117 followed by the BOC. I will warn you again, don’t be surprised to see more pairings of double BOCs! Again, be careful of what you wish for.
By the way, to steal a line from a classic [movie, Top Gun],
“I’ve been holding on too tight.” I have thrown in my Base Pilot wings, effective from Feb. I tell you now because I don’t want you to think I’m running from all the flak I’m about to receive. Give me your best shot!
I have written this not from a Base Pilot role, but from a pilot who hasn’t lost touch with reality and who wants this Perth base to work.
Cheers.
In an e-mail to pilots, the airline’s chief pilot for Perth, Australia, Jetstar operations, claims he is tired throughout a back-of-the-clock (midnight to 6 a.m. flight) but not fatigued. The captain for the airline admonished his fellow pilots, “Toughen up, princesses!”
The 7 January 2011 e-mail was made public at a hearing into aviation training standards by the Australian Senate. “It’s hugely concerning that we have pilots telling each other to ‘toughen up princesses’ because they raise concerns about lengthy shift hours and the impact that could have on the safety of passengers,” Senator Nick Xenophon said in a statement.
JetStar CEO Bruce Buchanan was not aware of the memorandum, to which Xenophon declared, “The potential intimidation in this e-mail is alarming and indicates that there may be a bullying culture among pilots.”
This accusation seems a stretch. If the Perth base was closed and pilots shifted to Melbourne, much of the back-of-the-clock (BOC) flying would be eliminated, to be sure. At the same time, pilots residing at in Perth would be faced with the expense of moving base (and family) to Melbourne.
It should be noted that pilots of cargo airplanes do most of their flying BOC to meet early-morning package delivery schedules.
The senior captain’s e-mail provides evidence that people are not a sound judge of their fatigue – a point made by many sleep researchers. The sleep science community argues that shift workers should be assigned schedules that avoid the effects of fatigue, as people are poor judges of their own impairment.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has unsuccessfully wrestled with the problem of pilot fatigue. In May 1988 the FAA issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that proposed new regulations to combat pilot fatigue. The NPRM was a response to a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) “Most Wanted” recommendation to update the rules for scheduling based on the science of fatigue research. Over 310 pages of solicited comments were received to the NPRM, but the FAA was unable to reconcile differing views and withdrew the NPRM in November 2009. There has been no regulatory action since, and the NTSB has characterized the FAA response as “unacceptable.” Relatives of the victims of the last fatal US airliner crash in Buffalo NY are anticipating that sweeping new laws just won’t make it past both Houses. Many Congressmen are concerned about the economic effect such grass-roots change would have upon the airlines and so the lobbying for the status quo ante is intense. The impact of preventing pilots from commuting long distances by air and road to fly their flights would hamstring airline schedulers. It’s presently manageable, even when weather intervenes. Throwing another manning spanner in the works would guarantee crewing mayhem both in the short and medium term. As is often the case, one fix can beget another rupture elsewhere. Even the majority of pilots can themselves argue for a “let sleeping dogs lie” solution. The extent of the lawmaker’s thorny problem can be seen indepth at Pilot fatigue bill stalls in Congress
The JQ Senior Pilot’s email merely encapsulates a similar dilemma. Pilots must play ball or face undefined career consequences for being disruptive. Suppression of fatigue via the fear factor is no solution. But bursting into e-print on the subject is also no doubt destined to distort one’s career path. Fatigue remains the great unspoken. Better that one should claim to be “tired and emotional” (a popular euphemism for hung-over). At least Senior Pilots will appreciate that you didn’t want to run the risk of getting breathalysed planeside - and will endorse your staying away as a wise decision. However just being “tired” is apparently no excuse…. and evinces a certain shameful lack of stamina (and a deficiency of the “right stuff”).
Below, the “toughen up” e-mail in all its colorful glory:
RE: DPS-SIN-PER-MEL-PER Pairing
[Flight schedule from Denpasar, Singapore, Perth, Melbourne and back to Perth]
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2011, 1:15 AM
This e-mail comes with a warning! If you are easily offended then delete this e-mail and read no further.
Toughen up princesses!
You aren’t fatigued, you are tired and can’t be bothered going to work.
The hardest thing about doing [flight] JQ117 backed up by the BOC [back of the clock, e.g. from midnight to 6 a.m.] is the time away from the family. There is ample time for rest if you utilize it correctly. I understand this is easy to say but sacrifices have to be made. We are all shift workers and that doesn’t always fit in with normal life. If you became an airline pilot thinking that you will be home every night and not have to fly through the night, then that is pretty naive. Might be time to go instructing.
I agree that the current BOC is a horror shift, but let’s look at the big picture. JQ [JetStar] now has about 50 odd airplanes. Airplanes don’t make money sitting on the tarmac, they need to keep flying. I have no idea how it works obtaining [airport] slots but I’m sure JQ can’t just have flights going to where they want, when they want. There must only be certain slots available which scheduling must then somehow work out how to fill. This current BOC is a combination of 2 MEL shifts which we have been given to fill a gap until further international routes, or domestic, become available. There is a high probability that we will only be doing this shift until mid year (fingers crossed!).
Now the powers to that be could have used this as a perfect opportunity to down-size the base, or even close it. But it shows that JQ is committed to the base and want it to work. Having said that, if I was Bruce and a bunch of pilots, who have taken a lot of days off, only fly 60-75 hours a month, started to call in ‘fatigued’ and didn’t want those days to come out of personal leave days, then I would start to look at other options. If flights started to be cancelled, then I would not hesitate in closing the base and have all flying done from MEL. Be careful of what you wish for!
In the last 4 weeks I have done 7 BOCs, 2 lots of back to back and one after JG117. I personally found the back to back the hardest and after JQ117 no dramas. By trial and error, I have worked out what works for me so I can manage the shift. I can say I hate the shift and I definitely don’t operate to my normal standard. I am tired throughout the shift, feel terrible, but would not call it fatigued.
All I ask is that you give the BOC flying a go and do everything that you can to make sure you are rested before the duty. If you honestly believe you can’t operate safely, not just because you feel terrible, then call in UFD [unfit for duty]. But it is UNFIT FOR DUTY! I can’t see how it can not be taken from your personal leave. I don’t see how it can be right that if you couldn’t get enough rest, for whatever reason, call in UFD then get a free day off. In the mean time I get called in off a standby. If I then refuse the duty I will be in all sorts of trouble. JQ rosters the required rest, you must use it but if still unfit for duty, then you are unfit for duty which needs to come out of your sick leave.
We have it pretty easy over here. Try Darwin for a while with 4 BOCs in a row, or MEL with 4 earlies followed by a late and while doing 100 hours. Then tell me how hard it is to do JQ117 followed by the BOC. I will warn you again, don’t be surprised to see more pairings of double BOCs! Again, be careful of what you wish for.
By the way, to steal a line from a classic [movie, Top Gun],
“I’ve been holding on too tight.” I have thrown in my Base Pilot wings, effective from Feb. I tell you now because I don’t want you to think I’m running from all the flak I’m about to receive. Give me your best shot!
I have written this not from a Base Pilot role, but from a pilot who hasn’t lost touch with reality and who wants this Perth base to work.
Cheers.
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is your captain sleeping: How exhausted pilots snooze at the controls (and two o
This is your captain sleeping: How exhausted pilots snooze at the controls (and two of them even had a nap at the same time)
By Ray Massey
Last updated at 11:52 AM on 7th April 2011
Pilots are falling asleep in the cockpits of UK passenger jets, a report suggests.
Nearly half of easyJet pilots surveyed said they were suffering from significant fatigue and a fifth reported that their abilities were compromised in flight more than once a week.
Alarmingly, two pilots on the same British-registered plane admitted falling asleep at the same time – risking a mid-air collision.
Falling asleep on the job: The study showed one in five pilots felt fatigued, though the union says the problem is 'systemic' across the aviation industry
The study, published today, was commissioned by the British pilots’ union, Balpa, and carried out by University College London.
One pilot, who works for a large UK airline but did not want to be named, said that about three months ago, both he and his co-pilot had very little sleep during their rest period.
More...
On the subsequent flight, his co-pilot asked if he could take a nap, which the pilot approved. But then the pilot fell also asleep for about ten minutes.
The study of 492 pilots showing one in five felt fatigued at least once a week was carried out among easyJet pilots, though the union says the problem is ‘systemic’ across the aviation industry.
Damning: easyJet pilots were quizzed in the study, which was commissioned by the British pilots' union, Balpa
The example in which two pilots fell asleep together in the cockpit involved another airline.
Speaking to the BBC, the pilot said his co-pilot had legitimately requested a ‘power nap’.
Neither had slept during their rest period because of shift patterns. The pilot said: ‘About 10 or 15 minutes into that “power nap” I got to the point where I could not keep my eyes open any more. I convinced myself it would be fine if I just shut my eyes for a couple of seconds.
‘I woke up with a start maybe five or ten minutes later. And the aircraft had been flying itself for that time.
‘The first thing you do obviously is to check your height and your speeds and all of your instrumentation, and hopefully everything has performed normally while you’ve been asleep – while both of you have been asleep.’
He said: ‘When I woke up, it was a big adrenaline rush.
‘The worst scenario is that the autopilot would disconnect itself and then the aircraft would lose or gain height and that would be extremely dangerous as you’d go into the path of oncoming aircraft.
‘Now there are warning systems that tell you you are deviating from the correct altitude but they are not excessively loud – it would be easy enough to sleep through that, and I probably don’t need to tell you what the consequences of that are.’
Balpa is worried the situation will get worse under European proposals that would see the maximum flying time for UK pilots going up from 900 hours in a 12-month period to 1,000.
But European authorities claim the proposed changes will not lead to a reduction in safety.
EasyJet said last night that it did not recognise the union’s findings and insisted it complied fully with all safety regulations.
By Ray Massey
Last updated at 11:52 AM on 7th April 2011
Pilots are falling asleep in the cockpits of UK passenger jets, a report suggests.
Nearly half of easyJet pilots surveyed said they were suffering from significant fatigue and a fifth reported that their abilities were compromised in flight more than once a week.
Alarmingly, two pilots on the same British-registered plane admitted falling asleep at the same time – risking a mid-air collision.
Falling asleep on the job: The study showed one in five pilots felt fatigued, though the union says the problem is 'systemic' across the aviation industryThe study, published today, was commissioned by the British pilots’ union, Balpa, and carried out by University College London.
One pilot, who works for a large UK airline but did not want to be named, said that about three months ago, both he and his co-pilot had very little sleep during their rest period.
More...
On the subsequent flight, his co-pilot asked if he could take a nap, which the pilot approved. But then the pilot fell also asleep for about ten minutes.
The study of 492 pilots showing one in five felt fatigued at least once a week was carried out among easyJet pilots, though the union says the problem is ‘systemic’ across the aviation industry.
Damning: easyJet pilots were quizzed in the study, which was commissioned by the British pilots' union, BalpaThe example in which two pilots fell asleep together in the cockpit involved another airline.
Speaking to the BBC, the pilot said his co-pilot had legitimately requested a ‘power nap’.
Neither had slept during their rest period because of shift patterns. The pilot said: ‘About 10 or 15 minutes into that “power nap” I got to the point where I could not keep my eyes open any more. I convinced myself it would be fine if I just shut my eyes for a couple of seconds.
‘I woke up with a start maybe five or ten minutes later. And the aircraft had been flying itself for that time.
‘The first thing you do obviously is to check your height and your speeds and all of your instrumentation, and hopefully everything has performed normally while you’ve been asleep – while both of you have been asleep.’
He said: ‘When I woke up, it was a big adrenaline rush.
‘The worst scenario is that the autopilot would disconnect itself and then the aircraft would lose or gain height and that would be extremely dangerous as you’d go into the path of oncoming aircraft.
‘Now there are warning systems that tell you you are deviating from the correct altitude but they are not excessively loud – it would be easy enough to sleep through that, and I probably don’t need to tell you what the consequences of that are.’
Balpa is worried the situation will get worse under European proposals that would see the maximum flying time for UK pilots going up from 900 hours in a 12-month period to 1,000.
But European authorities claim the proposed changes will not lead to a reduction in safety.
EasyJet said last night that it did not recognise the union’s findings and insisted it complied fully with all safety regulations.
I guess there's at least 2 interpretations to this Base manager's email.
1/ That of intimidation in an effort to strongarm the rank and file into toeing the company line.
2/ The desire to protect his, and if you are to believe the inferrance, the Perth base itself.
Personally, I feel he is leaning towards point 2.
Whatever their personal reasons may be, I can't help but wonder where Jetstar pilots think they are heading? I know it's tough moving base, and we all know the realities of airline flying can differ wildly from what people generally think. I have let opportunities pass, mainly because I was unwilling to uproot my family, and I have no regrets. But when a pilot advocates a pattern of work that has drawn complaint due to it's fatigueing nature, and by his own admission is hatefull and tiring, all because the alternatives are viewed as worse, then what the hell have we come to?
Onya Jetstar!
Onya Boys!
1/ That of intimidation in an effort to strongarm the rank and file into toeing the company line.
2/ The desire to protect his, and if you are to believe the inferrance, the Perth base itself.
Personally, I feel he is leaning towards point 2.
Whatever their personal reasons may be, I can't help but wonder where Jetstar pilots think they are heading? I know it's tough moving base, and we all know the realities of airline flying can differ wildly from what people generally think. I have let opportunities pass, mainly because I was unwilling to uproot my family, and I have no regrets. But when a pilot advocates a pattern of work that has drawn complaint due to it's fatigueing nature, and by his own admission is hatefull and tiring, all because the alternatives are viewed as worse, then what the hell have we come to?
Onya Jetstar!
Onya Boys!
It will take at least Three heavy jet crashes to change the system.
The first will be put down to happenstance - Australia has had a good safety record, but statistically we cannot completely avoid the possibility that........... In other words; accidents happen.
CASA and ATSB will make suitable noises.
The second crash will be put down to coincidence - a statistical blip.
Questions will however be asked, and it is possible a Royal Commission will get up, but One headed by a "Tame" commissioner to keep the government and CASA safe.
The Third crash will arouse the public and will result in a full blooded Royal Commission, at which point it might be possible to effect change in the regulatory climate and regulatory structure that allowed such accidents to occur.
All allegations made against CASA will be met with calls for "natural justice" and "procedural fairness" to be afforded all CASA staff under scrutiny, irrespective of the fact that these same courtesies have allegedly never been granted by CASA to industry participants in the past.
The first will be put down to happenstance - Australia has had a good safety record, but statistically we cannot completely avoid the possibility that........... In other words; accidents happen.
CASA and ATSB will make suitable noises.
The second crash will be put down to coincidence - a statistical blip.
Questions will however be asked, and it is possible a Royal Commission will get up, but One headed by a "Tame" commissioner to keep the government and CASA safe.
The Third crash will arouse the public and will result in a full blooded Royal Commission, at which point it might be possible to effect change in the regulatory climate and regulatory structure that allowed such accidents to occur.
All allegations made against CASA will be met with calls for "natural justice" and "procedural fairness" to be afforded all CASA staff under scrutiny, irrespective of the fact that these same courtesies have allegedly never been granted by CASA to industry participants in the past.
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with ya sunfish
Sunfish is on the ball in my view. No real vision in CASA that I can see...
CASAweary IMHO you speak the truth, and it sounds like you have inside info well beyond mine. The issue for me has always been a complete lack of national standardisation for the application of Regs, CAO's etc. Its always (IME) been a case of local opinion being enforced (or bullied) as "regulation".
If an AWI, ATI or FOI takes a dislike to you or your organisation they can simply make up any BS they feel like (often its just whatever their last employer did) as a "requirement" using the pitifully vague and open Ozzie aviation reg system as justification. Unless the AOC holder has the $$ and balls to take them on in court they have no choice but to do whatever the ego of that CASA staff member demands. Good job that in WA some operators are doing just that. In my view CASA has operated like a rogue agency, and its about time they got taught a lesson...
In the recent past that wasn't so bad as under Bruce Byron CASA's job was to consult and assist / guide operators, so together the industry got the job done in a positive way. But now, under what others have described to me as the abusive egomaniac now running the show it seems to be more like "attack the industry", whether the CASA staff members views are correct or not. Maybe simply to show Zeno and co that CASA is actually doing "something", even if the "something" is way off base...
I pity the poor FOI's and AWI's given that "fun" job now. If I was them I'd get all my assetts out of my name ASAP, as I have a feeling industry is about to strike back. CASA staff who exceed their powers, etc will have no legal protection from their employer...
Under the FAA (or the similar kiwi system) there is a logical framework of rules, supported by detailed AC's. That way the law is the law and any FOI/AWI who tries going beyond them can be bollocked. Its not totally prescriptive, there is room to make up your own methods of compliance.
I am amazed at how long the process of regulatory reform is taking here. Guess its great for CASA's legal team. There jobs will last for ever at this rate... Another poster suggested sacking all of CASA and adopting the well developed NZ rule system, then getting CASA staff to reapply for their jobs under a new regulatory framework. Sad to to say but maybe theres some wisdom in that idea. How about some pollies show some balls and do just that?
Maybe when Zeno is finished with his current rave he can get into CASA? In my view they need it. IMHO they are a big part of our industry problems...
CASAweary IMHO you speak the truth, and it sounds like you have inside info well beyond mine. The issue for me has always been a complete lack of national standardisation for the application of Regs, CAO's etc. Its always (IME) been a case of local opinion being enforced (or bullied) as "regulation".
If an AWI, ATI or FOI takes a dislike to you or your organisation they can simply make up any BS they feel like (often its just whatever their last employer did) as a "requirement" using the pitifully vague and open Ozzie aviation reg system as justification. Unless the AOC holder has the $$ and balls to take them on in court they have no choice but to do whatever the ego of that CASA staff member demands. Good job that in WA some operators are doing just that. In my view CASA has operated like a rogue agency, and its about time they got taught a lesson...
In the recent past that wasn't so bad as under Bruce Byron CASA's job was to consult and assist / guide operators, so together the industry got the job done in a positive way. But now, under what others have described to me as the abusive egomaniac now running the show it seems to be more like "attack the industry", whether the CASA staff members views are correct or not. Maybe simply to show Zeno and co that CASA is actually doing "something", even if the "something" is way off base...
I pity the poor FOI's and AWI's given that "fun" job now. If I was them I'd get all my assetts out of my name ASAP, as I have a feeling industry is about to strike back. CASA staff who exceed their powers, etc will have no legal protection from their employer...
Under the FAA (or the similar kiwi system) there is a logical framework of rules, supported by detailed AC's. That way the law is the law and any FOI/AWI who tries going beyond them can be bollocked. Its not totally prescriptive, there is room to make up your own methods of compliance.
I am amazed at how long the process of regulatory reform is taking here. Guess its great for CASA's legal team. There jobs will last for ever at this rate... Another poster suggested sacking all of CASA and adopting the well developed NZ rule system, then getting CASA staff to reapply for their jobs under a new regulatory framework. Sad to to say but maybe theres some wisdom in that idea. How about some pollies show some balls and do just that?
Maybe when Zeno is finished with his current rave he can get into CASA? In my view they need it. IMHO they are a big part of our industry problems...
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Mooore I hear you say..
[YOUTUBE]
This is where we're heading:
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
Watch The Full Program | Flying Cheap | FRONTLINE | PBS
One for the Engineers and the next Inquiry: Flying Cheaper - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
Pilots on Food Stamps | MichaelMoore.com
By Michael Moore
This week, the new 'Mike & Friends Blog' section will be added to MichaelMoore.com. In additional to my blog, I have asked a few people, like Rep. Marcy Kaptur (the Democrat from Toledo who has deservedly become the star of my movie!) and Leah Fried (who helped organize the sit-down strike at Republic Windows and Doors in Chicago), to blog here on my site. Here's a sneak peek of my first blog post. Enjoy! -- MM
We're on the descent from 20,000 feet in the air when the flight attendant leans over the elderly woman next to me and taps me on the shoulder.
"I'm listening to Lady Gaga," I say as I remove just one of the ear buds. I know not this Lady Gaga, but her performance last week on SNL was fascinating.
"The pilots would like to see you in the cockpit when we land," she says with a southern drawl.
"Did I do something wrong?"
"No. They have something to show you." (The last time an employee of an airline wanted to show me something it was her written reprimand for eating an in-flight meal without paying for it. "Yes," she said, "we have to pay for our own meals on board now.")
The plane landed and I stepped into the cockpit. "Read this," the first officer said. He handed me a letter from the airline to him. It was headlined "LETTER OF CONCERN." It seems this poor fellow had taken three sick days in the past year. The letter was a warning not to take another one -- or else.
"Great," I said. "Just what I want -- you coming to work sick, flying me up in the air and asking to borrow the barf bag from my seatback pocket."
He then showed me his pay stub. He took home $405 this week. My life was completely and totally in his hands for the past hour and he's paid less than the kid who delivers my pizza.
I told the guys that I have a whole section in my new movie about how pilots are treated (using pilots as only one example of how people's wages have been slashed and the middle class decimated). In the movie I interview a pilot for a major airline who made $17,000 last year. For four months he was eligible -- and received -- food stamps. Another pilot in the film has a second job as a dog walker.
"I have a second job!," the two pilots said in unison. One is a substitute teacher. The other works in a coffee shop. You know, maybe it's just me, but the two occupations whose workers shouldn't be humpin' a second job are brain surgeons and airline pilots. Call me crazy.
I told them about how Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger (the pilot who safely landed the jet in the Hudson River) had testified in Congress that no pilot he knows wants any of their children to become a pilot. Pilots, he said, are completely demoralized. He spoke of how his pay has been cut 40% and his own pension eliminated. Most of the TV news didn't cover his remarks and the congressmen quickly forgot them. They just wanted him to play the role of "HERO," but he was on a more important mission. He's in my movie.
"I hadn't heard anywhere that this stuff about the airlines is in this new movie," the pilot said.
"No, you wouldn't," I replied. "The press likes to talk about me, not the movie."
And it's true. I've been surprised (and slightly annoyed) that, with all that's been written and talked about "Capitalism: A Love Story," very little attention has been paid the mind-blowing stuff in the film: pilots on food stamps, companies secretly taking out life insurance policies on employees and hoping they die young so the company can collect, judges getting kickbacks from the private prison industry for sending innocent people (kids) to be locked up. The profit motive -- it's a killer.
Especially when your pilot started his day at 6am working at the local Starbucks.
By Michael Moore
This week, the new 'Mike & Friends Blog' section will be added to MichaelMoore.com. In additional to my blog, I have asked a few people, like Rep. Marcy Kaptur (the Democrat from Toledo who has deservedly become the star of my movie!) and Leah Fried (who helped organize the sit-down strike at Republic Windows and Doors in Chicago), to blog here on my site. Here's a sneak peek of my first blog post. Enjoy! -- MM
We're on the descent from 20,000 feet in the air when the flight attendant leans over the elderly woman next to me and taps me on the shoulder.
"I'm listening to Lady Gaga," I say as I remove just one of the ear buds. I know not this Lady Gaga, but her performance last week on SNL was fascinating.
"The pilots would like to see you in the cockpit when we land," she says with a southern drawl.
"Did I do something wrong?"
"No. They have something to show you." (The last time an employee of an airline wanted to show me something it was her written reprimand for eating an in-flight meal without paying for it. "Yes," she said, "we have to pay for our own meals on board now.")
The plane landed and I stepped into the cockpit. "Read this," the first officer said. He handed me a letter from the airline to him. It was headlined "LETTER OF CONCERN." It seems this poor fellow had taken three sick days in the past year. The letter was a warning not to take another one -- or else.
"Great," I said. "Just what I want -- you coming to work sick, flying me up in the air and asking to borrow the barf bag from my seatback pocket."
He then showed me his pay stub. He took home $405 this week. My life was completely and totally in his hands for the past hour and he's paid less than the kid who delivers my pizza.
I told the guys that I have a whole section in my new movie about how pilots are treated (using pilots as only one example of how people's wages have been slashed and the middle class decimated). In the movie I interview a pilot for a major airline who made $17,000 last year. For four months he was eligible -- and received -- food stamps. Another pilot in the film has a second job as a dog walker.
"I have a second job!," the two pilots said in unison. One is a substitute teacher. The other works in a coffee shop. You know, maybe it's just me, but the two occupations whose workers shouldn't be humpin' a second job are brain surgeons and airline pilots. Call me crazy.
I told them about how Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger (the pilot who safely landed the jet in the Hudson River) had testified in Congress that no pilot he knows wants any of their children to become a pilot. Pilots, he said, are completely demoralized. He spoke of how his pay has been cut 40% and his own pension eliminated. Most of the TV news didn't cover his remarks and the congressmen quickly forgot them. They just wanted him to play the role of "HERO," but he was on a more important mission. He's in my movie.
"I hadn't heard anywhere that this stuff about the airlines is in this new movie," the pilot said.
"No, you wouldn't," I replied. "The press likes to talk about me, not the movie."
And it's true. I've been surprised (and slightly annoyed) that, with all that's been written and talked about "Capitalism: A Love Story," very little attention has been paid the mind-blowing stuff in the film: pilots on food stamps, companies secretly taking out life insurance policies on employees and hoping they die young so the company can collect, judges getting kickbacks from the private prison industry for sending innocent people (kids) to be locked up. The profit motive -- it's a killer.
Especially when your pilot started his day at 6am working at the local Starbucks.
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
Watch The Full Program | Flying Cheap | FRONTLINE | PBS
One for the Engineers and the next Inquiry: Flying Cheaper - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 8th Apr 2011 at 05:13.
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Mr Hat,
I worked out that you just click on the 'You Tube' at the beginning and delete the 'You Tube at the end to give you one picture only. Maybe, if you just copy the URL it will do, but I haven't tried that yet!
I worked out that you just click on the 'You Tube' at the beginning and delete the 'You Tube at the end to give you one picture only. Maybe, if you just copy the URL it will do, but I haven't tried that yet!
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Krusty 34
I've upload the television coverage of day 4 (18 March) and day 5 (31 March). I had to re-do them as I had a problem with 'You Tube'. If you can view all uploads for 'U333able' it should show them.
I've upload the television coverage of day 4 (18 March) and day 5 (31 March). I had to re-do them as I had a problem with 'You Tube'. If you can view all uploads for 'U333able' it should show them.
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A couple of extra documents on the senate inquiry submissions webpage including the bent truths and lies to all of the questions on notice.
This is your last chance guys to influence the report by sending the committee evidence to discredit these responses!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
This is your last chance guys to influence the report by sending the committee evidence to discredit these responses!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
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Highly recommend watching the full version of the frontline videos. Some pretty scary similarities.
I always say that the US is like a crystal ball. You can see what Australia is going to be like in 20 years by observing what happens there.
Cable TV
Low Cost Carriers
Private Health Care System
The list goes on. Watch the videos and you see what I mean.
I always say that the US is like a crystal ball. You can see what Australia is going to be like in 20 years by observing what happens there.
Cable TV
Low Cost Carriers
Private Health Care System
The list goes on. Watch the videos and you see what I mean.
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The Circuit
CASAWeary,
I must say that your posts regarding CASA are most interesting. It seems it is a hotbed of intrigue and a bit of the hanky panky heaven. It seems in Brisbane circuit work means a bit more than just driving down the road to the building. Rumpy pumpy they like to bumpy!
How do you get a job there! I need some power to abuse, a good pay to live the high lifestyle, and a bit of the compliant you know what on the side - as long as Mrs Frank doesn't find out! Maybe I could live in Bali and commute to Melbourne for work. Every sixth week would be just fine!
Quick, where do I sign? Even if I have to put up with an abusive personality (i met him once and he was all crooked smiles), a treacherous (was he lecherous as well?) personality, a smart aleck (who has never made a decision in his life), and a bottom of the harbour toe cutter (with the lithesome debutante assistant (your story so far I think) then it might be not so bad as long as I can get a piece of something.
Can't wait for the next thrilling episode.
Off to annoy Mrs Frank as I have got quiet excited thinking about rumpy, pumpy, they like to bumpy.
Normally cranky Franky but today I just want hanky panky.
Frank
I must say that your posts regarding CASA are most interesting. It seems it is a hotbed of intrigue and a bit of the hanky panky heaven. It seems in Brisbane circuit work means a bit more than just driving down the road to the building. Rumpy pumpy they like to bumpy!
How do you get a job there! I need some power to abuse, a good pay to live the high lifestyle, and a bit of the compliant you know what on the side - as long as Mrs Frank doesn't find out! Maybe I could live in Bali and commute to Melbourne for work. Every sixth week would be just fine!
Quick, where do I sign? Even if I have to put up with an abusive personality (i met him once and he was all crooked smiles), a treacherous (was he lecherous as well?) personality, a smart aleck (who has never made a decision in his life), and a bottom of the harbour toe cutter (with the lithesome debutante assistant (your story so far I think) then it might be not so bad as long as I can get a piece of something.
Can't wait for the next thrilling episode.
Off to annoy Mrs Frank as I have got quiet excited thinking about rumpy, pumpy, they like to bumpy.
Normally cranky Franky but today I just want hanky panky.
Frank
Nightline from ABC News: Pilot Fatigue and Crash Pads 2/9/2011
A recent televised report on how pilot fatigue is resulting from commercial drive, regulator inaction, and industry denial:
Cast ahead a few year years and this could be equally be report about the Oz industry be unless CASA regulates industry behavior which is the cause into the dustbin. Alternatively we could have a fatigue-related hull loss and Royal Commission to achieve same .... the Senate enquiry has put this right on JMac's lap.
Cast ahead a few year years and this could be equally be report about the Oz industry be unless CASA regulates industry behavior which is the cause into the dustbin. Alternatively we could have a fatigue-related hull loss and Royal Commission to achieve same .... the Senate enquiry has put this right on JMac's lap.
Last edited by Roller Merlin; 9th Apr 2011 at 04:15.