Merged: Senate Inquiry
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The guys who have been sucked in up till now should be protected, because even they had no chance of seeing how all this has unfolded.
Did anyone protect me whilst in GA and got I offloaded by a company because they lost a contract? I still had the uni and flying loans against my name (still do) with no income and far from home. Dusted self off like 1000s of others and moved on.
Cadets are like people at the casino. They are looking for a shortcut. Do we compensate gamblers when they lose?
Sorry no pity from me: Too many dead GA colleagues and mates for this pilot to feel empathy for short-cutters that loose a few dollars. In my career a bad day is when someone you trained with didn't make it home and you get the charter to go and pick up their remains. So to those cadets that might lose a dollar or get screwed by the mighty J*: TOUGHEN UP PRINCESSES!
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 19th Apr 2011 at 11:19.
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After 52 pages there are a number of observations.
1. By and large this has been a sensible thread.
2. Politicians are in it for themselves no one else. The good Senators will not deliver anything for aviation, for you and me, out of this show case.
3. AJ and BB and others have simply thumbed the Senate and the Senators have done nothing about it. So much for contempt of the Senate!
4. Until we have a major RPT accident in Australia followed by a Royal Commission nothing will change.
5. Kelpie, who ever you are, buy a boat or take up golf. You are obviously a good man, or woman, but you are beating a dead horse. This whole exercise is a waste of time and effort. Read 4 above again.
rgds
Pundit
1. By and large this has been a sensible thread.
2. Politicians are in it for themselves no one else. The good Senators will not deliver anything for aviation, for you and me, out of this show case.
3. AJ and BB and others have simply thumbed the Senate and the Senators have done nothing about it. So much for contempt of the Senate!
4. Until we have a major RPT accident in Australia followed by a Royal Commission nothing will change.
5. Kelpie, who ever you are, buy a boat or take up golf. You are obviously a good man, or woman, but you are beating a dead horse. This whole exercise is a waste of time and effort. Read 4 above again.
rgds
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Pundit
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately you will know if your are a pilot it is an addiction that is not that easy to give up!!
Lets just wait for the Senate Report.
Things seem to have gone quiet because that is all the evidence gathered and the report is being written, we can not do anything more to affect that. Let's just be patient and see what is written. We may well be suprised!!
The Committee will not look too great if in the future we have a smokin' hole and a contributing factor was discussed by the committee and they elected to do nothing.
QF32 (together with the other recent QF / JQ incidents) was in my opinion a shot across the bow, and represent situations that could have had a totally diffrent and unfortunate outcome but for the skill and experience of the crew. Through the Committee we have had the opportunity for the Government to step back and look into our industry. I hope they see this as an opportunity to be 'pro-active' and put things right before the inevitable happens.
If nothing else the inquiry has allowed the Federal Government to see what is happenning to the industry and particularly what is happenning with the franchising within the Qantas Group and how this is promoting varying safety reporting procedures across group companies. Also the potential for poor safety cultures developing within group companys and a clear focus on fatigue.
Lets just be patient, wait and see.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately you will know if your are a pilot it is an addiction that is not that easy to give up!!
Lets just wait for the Senate Report.
Things seem to have gone quiet because that is all the evidence gathered and the report is being written, we can not do anything more to affect that. Let's just be patient and see what is written. We may well be suprised!!
The Committee will not look too great if in the future we have a smokin' hole and a contributing factor was discussed by the committee and they elected to do nothing.
QF32 (together with the other recent QF / JQ incidents) was in my opinion a shot across the bow, and represent situations that could have had a totally diffrent and unfortunate outcome but for the skill and experience of the crew. Through the Committee we have had the opportunity for the Government to step back and look into our industry. I hope they see this as an opportunity to be 'pro-active' and put things right before the inevitable happens.
If nothing else the inquiry has allowed the Federal Government to see what is happenning to the industry and particularly what is happenning with the franchising within the Qantas Group and how this is promoting varying safety reporting procedures across group companies. Also the potential for poor safety cultures developing within group companys and a clear focus on fatigue.
Lets just be patient, wait and see.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Last edited by The Kelpie; 21st Apr 2011 at 00:21.
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Senate inquiry puts new pressure on air safety secrecy
Senate inquiry puts new pressure on air safety secrecy
May 3, 2011 – 3:57 pm, by Ben Sandilands
There is some last minute uncertainty over whether the Senate Inquiry into pilot training and airline safety will table its report tomorrow afternoon, but one thing is clear, the committee will ask CASA why it didn’t mention its show cause action against Tiger Airways in March when it was giving testimony at its hearings.
At this stage there are two courses of action being considered by the committee members.
One course would be to report its findings as intended tomorrow afternoon, and deal with the Tiger and CASA issue in a further hearing leading to a supplementary report.
The other course would be to defer the final report until these issues have been dealt with through an additional hearing.
This story in The Age, which goes to prove it still has reporters working on what is not a good day for Fairfax journalists, is correct.
However the crucial issue which had already raised the hackles of members of the committee, is the hard wired resistance of CASA, and the ATSB, to disclosing the nature of safety concerns to the travelling public, instead of the current policy of keeping it in the dark when safety risks are brought to their attention.
In its hearings the Senate inquiry uncovered a case of the ATSB not even talking to the pilots of a Jetstar flight that experienced a serious wind shear incident because it accepted Jetstar’s assurance it didn’t matter.
This from an airline that didn’t tell the ATSB it had illegally changed the standard operating procedures for a go-around incorporated in an approved flight manual for the A320 that nearly resulted in a crash at Melbourne Airport in 2007 until the true nature of that incident was exposed by media reports.
In the case of CASA the Senate committee members are considering requiring the safety regulator to explain exactly what Tiger Airways was doing that caused it to issue a show cause notice that could have lead to a suspension of its air operator certificate late in March.
The right of the public to know what the safety regulator is doing and why is very much a major issue in this inquiry.
May 3, 2011 – 3:57 pm, by Ben Sandilands
There is some last minute uncertainty over whether the Senate Inquiry into pilot training and airline safety will table its report tomorrow afternoon, but one thing is clear, the committee will ask CASA why it didn’t mention its show cause action against Tiger Airways in March when it was giving testimony at its hearings.
At this stage there are two courses of action being considered by the committee members.
One course would be to report its findings as intended tomorrow afternoon, and deal with the Tiger and CASA issue in a further hearing leading to a supplementary report.
The other course would be to defer the final report until these issues have been dealt with through an additional hearing.
This story in The Age, which goes to prove it still has reporters working on what is not a good day for Fairfax journalists, is correct.
However the crucial issue which had already raised the hackles of members of the committee, is the hard wired resistance of CASA, and the ATSB, to disclosing the nature of safety concerns to the travelling public, instead of the current policy of keeping it in the dark when safety risks are brought to their attention.
In its hearings the Senate inquiry uncovered a case of the ATSB not even talking to the pilots of a Jetstar flight that experienced a serious wind shear incident because it accepted Jetstar’s assurance it didn’t matter.
This from an airline that didn’t tell the ATSB it had illegally changed the standard operating procedures for a go-around incorporated in an approved flight manual for the A320 that nearly resulted in a crash at Melbourne Airport in 2007 until the true nature of that incident was exposed by media reports.
In the case of CASA the Senate committee members are considering requiring the safety regulator to explain exactly what Tiger Airways was doing that caused it to issue a show cause notice that could have lead to a suspension of its air operator certificate late in March.
The right of the public to know what the safety regulator is doing and why is very much a major issue in this inquiry.
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Not Good News CASA:
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose to the Senate ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the public ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the traveler ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the valid LAME ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the valid AOC holder ??
Should the Senate ask the questions and make CASA answer on the spot, not go away from the hearing with some lame excuse to seek more information.
Maybe the Senate should re-visit some of the "smoking holes" with dubious explanations from the safety regulator [??] - CASA about Lochart River, Whyalla and others CASA got wrong.
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose to the Senate ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the public ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the traveler ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the valid LAME ??
Why should the "safety" regulator snub it's nose at the valid AOC holder ??
Should the Senate ask the questions and make CASA answer on the spot, not go away from the hearing with some lame excuse to seek more information.
Maybe the Senate should re-visit some of the "smoking holes" with dubious explanations from the safety regulator [??] - CASA about Lochart River, Whyalla and others CASA got wrong.
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SNUB ---a non-profit organisation, also known as Stop Norwich Urbanisation, based near Norwich, United Kingdom, aimed at stopping the urban sprawl of Norwich.
CASA does that also ??
CASA does that also ??
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CASA and SNUB:
Urban Dictionary: snub[IMG]chrome://searchshield/content/safe.gif[/IMG]
v. describes the action of ignoring, failing to notice, or pretending not to see someone. a person is usually snubbed when they are disliked or the...
Urban Dictionary, May 3: career tragectorysnub - Cached - Similar
Just to help CactusJack
Urban Dictionary: snub[IMG]chrome://searchshield/content/safe.gif[/IMG]
v. describes the action of ignoring, failing to notice, or pretending not to see someone. a person is usually snubbed when they are disliked or the...
Just to help CactusJack
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Parliament of Australia: Senate: Recently tabled reports
At this stage, I can only find the cover letter of the Interim Report.
Which I think, will be all that we will see until June.
MC
At this stage, I can only find the cover letter of the Interim Report.
Which I think, will be all that we will see until June.
MC
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 4th May 2011 at 06:12. Reason: typo
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Dear Mr President
Pursuant to Senate standing order 38(7), I present to you an interim report of the Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee in relation to the committee’s inquiry into Pilot Training and Airline Safety including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010.
The committee requires additional time to seek further evidence and will present its final report on Wednesday, 15 June 2011.
Yours sincerely
Pursuant to Senate standing order 38(7), I present to you an interim report of the Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee in relation to the committee’s inquiry into Pilot Training and Airline Safety including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010.
The committee requires additional time to seek further evidence and will present its final report on Wednesday, 15 June 2011.
Yours sincerely
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Do you guys still believe in Santa Claus ?.
When you live....
Jetstar cadets contracts
Barry Jackson from AIPA on the radio this morning - seems that the 4 cadets have been employed in Australia outside the EBA.
$57k per annum, no increase for 6 years, $80k in training costs to be repaid to the company.
How dumb can you be?
$57k per annum, no increase for 6 years, $80k in training costs to be repaid to the company.
How dumb can you be?
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How dumb can you be?
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seems that the 4 cadets have been employed in Australia outside the EBA
Mainline EBA, then there was the turd sandwich EBA, now employment on terms less than the turd sandwich EBA, you guys are awesome !!!!.
I wonder if there will be enough parachute pilots working for free, you know because its private operations and you cant get paid, who would go for the turd sandwich MKIII EBA. Numptys.