Merged: Senate Inquiry

[hotnhigh]

If you cant get the box set Mr Hat, try this for a stocking filler.
I think it marries up what is going on quite well at the moment. Senate enquiries, airline management, fatigue, and princesses.

YouTube - Chief Clancy Wiggum - Nothing to see here

[The Kelpie]

Mr Hat

I don't think they need the box set.

The one posted yesterday on the Colgan Incident should be enough when the Senators see that all of the issues discussed in the Inquiry were indeed factors in the Colgan Air incident, including the Increase Ref switch on the Q400.

Gissing dismissed the stick shaking events yesterday that were not low energy and put them down to the increased ref speed switch not being correctly selected. Look what happenned to the Colgan Air crew in this very situation!!

More to Follow

The Kelpie

[rmcdonal]

Gissing dismissed the stick shaking events yesterday that were not low energy and put them down to the increased ref speed switch not being correctly selected. Look what happenned to the Colgan Air crew in this very situation!!

Let me just clarify this one
In the Colgan incident the aircraft was in icing conditions, and did in fact stall.
Where as the Ref Speed incidents at the Link where out of icing conditions causing the stick shakers to activate 20 knots earlier than they would have normally. These aircraft did not stall.

The other low speed events however...

[Artificial Horizon]

Actually, the Colgan stall was not caused by icing, the aircraft was in icing conditions and the Increase REF switch was selected and forgotten about. Distraction caused the flight crew to allow the speed to reduce to the stick shaker onset, at this stage the aircraft was approx 20 knots above an actual stall. The aircraft only entered an actual stall when the Captain mishandled the recovery and on application of full power pulled hard back inducing an aerodynamic stall, to further compound the problem the FO announced that she was raising the gear and proceeded to retract the flaps. So this incident is very similar to the initial stages of the above occurrences, the only difference in the outcome was due to the crew not mishandling the recovery. That is where the training / experience and fatigue argument come into it!!

[PLovett]

rmcdonal, the Colgan Air crash was caused when the aircraft stalled after the crew applied the wrong technique when the stick shaker activated. Yes it was in icing conditions but it did not stall until the fatigued and inappropriately trained crew both pulled the nose up and retracted flaps. The result was then inevitable.

A H got there ahead of me.

[gobbledock]

Gissing dismissed the stick shaking events yesterday that were not low energy and put them down to the increased ref speed switch not being correctly selected. Look what happenned to the Colgan Air crew in this very situation!!

Gissing is out of touch. Too much time sipping Cognac and not out in the field will deaden a person's perception of reality. He is another part of the Mascot furniture which requires replacement. He is more concerned with bonus payments and an executive salary, but he knows how to play the game well, perhaps he should take the stand in front of Nick ? Colgan was not a straight forward textbook accident if there is such a thing. Involved were the issues of fatigue, training, weather/location/pilot familiarality of the region, long travel sectors flown just to pick up the aircraft, procedural violations, crap management, low cost airline practises and the list goes on. If Gissing thinks the shaker incidents were merely caused by one casual factor then he well and truly needs to move on and let somebody else run the safety department.
I find it amazing that this 'safety leader' is still holding the position he has after all the occurences taking place over the past two years, not to metion the airlines decline ( I mean complete loss) of its excellent safety reputation ? This in itself shows how rotten the fish is...

And as an additional point I know of a number of JQ pilots concerned about flying into BNE late at night due the unrestricted aircraft operations permitted which often means ramp duty managers are working common shifts of between 12 -14 hours under extreme pressure and impossible work loads and late night mistakes are extremely common. I have also heard in the past few years that several managers have resigned, had breakdowns or near heart attcks due to the fatigue and pressure of working sometimes 70 hour weeks. Not pretty friends...

[Mr. Hat]

Kelpie, Colgan would be a good start but I think each episode gives a different and sometimes unexpected perspective. I don't know about your family but mine go pretty quiet during some of the scenes. Its sobering stuff.

If they are going to be making big decisions I think they need to take the time to see as many as possible.

Personally I think its compulsory viewing for everyone in the industry.

[gruntyfen]

The comments re Colgan and stick shaker incidents here warrant being written up and submitted to Senator Xenophon. They make a powerful argument about fatigue and training issues and may just make the difference in getting something meaningful into the conclusions and recommendations of the report.

[breakfastburrito]

Send them to Senator Kerry O'Brian too. He travels frequently on the Dash8's and has a vested interest - by his own admission. I believe he is also onside judging by his demeanour and poignant questions. He could be the sleeper in this inquiry.

[magicbox]

I hear on the grapevine that BB sent out an email to all pilots today regarding the senate enquiry and his dislike of AIPA. Anyone care to post???? Sounds like a good read.

Also it looks like steve creedy didn't writing any articles in todays Australian? Was he too busy at the chairmans lounge?

[flyingins]

That is correct. I cannot get to the email at the moment but it appears that BB feels it necessary to threaten his crew that they should not feel threatened.

In fact the memo was released twice. The first one taking a big, childish dig at AIPA, the second one 10 minutes later with that entire paragraph removed.

Fascinating to watch......

No doubt someone will release the letter(s) below.

[Artificial Horizon]

Yep, all very strange, one version trashing AIPA and one version without the full trashing. He then goes on to say that the email from the 'base' pilot, in his opinion, was not threatening at all!! According to the email we should be thanking J* for providing such a supportive and open culture at J* and he is, in a parent sort of role, very disappointed that some individuals are using this senate enquiry to release documents that we should of given to management instead, as they would of thoroughly investigated all our concerns

[rooboy762002]

Just to make things clear.
Even though Jetstar has over 60% of its pilot group as members with AIPA, it is to be referred to as the "Qantas Pilot Union."

[waren9]

In fact the memo was released twice. The first one taking a big, childish dig at AIPA, the second one 10 minutes later with that entire paragraph removed.

One version for pilots, another version for all employees, thats all. Check whos in the "to" line.

A very shallow dig at trying to turn pilots against AIPA. Granted, Reg does seem to have trouble understanding who the "Qantas Pilots Union" actually represents. Maybe someone should point out to him what the letters A.I.P.A actually stand for.

[Mainframe]

Breakfast Burrito,

Spot on re Sen Kerry O'brien.

Check his credentials, he has a long history of putting CASA on the spot.

Give him factual information and he will run with it, but dont feed him BS!

He enjoys jousting with the regulator and asking awkward questions, he's as much on side as Nick,
but more experienced and with a longer track record, he and Nick teamed together could be formidable>

[The Green Goblin]

So who's going to bite the bullet and post it for the rest to enjoy

[Cactusjack]

He then goes on to say that the email from the 'base' pilot, in his opinion, was not threatening at all!! According to the email we should be thanking J* for providing such a supportive and open culture at J*

Hilarious stuff. I actually believe BB. To be called a 'Pricess' is no big deal. After all, if you recall BB on his infamous flight got busted playing a game of Prince and the Princess, and AJ is rumoured to be recently engaged so no doubt their will be a Princess of some sort in that relationship !

and he is, in a parent sort of role, very disappointed that some individuals are using this senate enquiry to release documents that we should of given to management instead, as they would of thoroughly investigated all our concerns

Wow, we should now call him 'Surrogate Bruce' for being a daddy to the staff, or perhaps 'Breast Feeding Bruce', 'BCG - Bruces Childcare Group' ? And like all good parents, Bruce is disapointed in some of his surrogate children so perhaps he will ground the complaining pilots for a week, remove their laptop priveledges, curfew them from being out after 2100 for a month (whoops that will be difficult with the standard nightly delays), remove their weekly pocket money allowances and make them write a thousand times in a note book -" I Will Not Act Like A Princess' !

Yep, I believe 'Boston Bruce' is history and 'Surrogate Bruce' now reigns supreme.

[Mr. Hat]

hmmm.. AFAP the Buchanan preferred union? Now I really am concerned. Joining dots...

in a parent sort of role

..just got off the phone to my parents and asked them "what the HELL were they thinking when they told me to get plenty of rest and to not stay up late".

[SOPS]

Me thinks the pressure is starting to show and cracks are appearing

[Cactusjack]

TV Highlights

And here it is, the TV guide for next weeks movies on 8/4/2011 for those who watch 'Senate TV'.

1400: Prince And The Pauper - A touching movie about how a rich executive Prince on a superb salary becomes flustered and implodes as his empire is shaken to the very core by rumblings and expressions of mistrust by the companies pilots who naughtily speak out against him.
This film is a must see for aviation buffs and government Ministers and gets 3 stars.

1830: Princess Diaries - A film about an executive airline CEO who keeps diaries and logs on all his pilots who comment both publicly and sometimes privately. You will laugh as you watch this CEO going undercover and dressing up as a union delegate in an attempt to catch these mischievous overpaid underworked pilots in the act. Later you will cry as you see the same CEO wet nurse his pilots and provide them with tender counsel as he fine tunes his fatherly role. A must see for those with a romantic heart or those who enjoy receiving hand cranks in business class seats. 4 stars.

2130: The Princess Bride - Finally the evenings highlight. You will be mesmerised, filled with joy and even slightly aroused to be sure as you watch an airline CEO hunt down is bride to be with joyous passion. There is a secret and 'happy' ending to this film which features a wedding proposal and then the wedding in location that remaions secret but is believed to take place in Vietnam, Japan or Honolulu. 4.5 stars.

Happy viewing.