Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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uni 1974
lets just take one thing at a time
miserable working for QF...I think not, we all love working on aircraft
solving defects and the like,and are proud working for QANTAS
lacking self esteem ...we are not and were proud of our tradition,AND WE WANT THAT BACK
Yes there are some who are on good money...but work a shift that warrents good pay
full of bile....yes we are because we want a fair go as we see what OUR bosses get and we want a fair deal nothing more or less and that will bring back the good will and respect to a once great company....the rim
miserable working for QF...I think not, we all love working on aircraft
solving defects and the like,and are proud working for QANTAS
lacking self esteem ...we are not and were proud of our tradition,AND WE WANT THAT BACK
Yes there are some who are on good money...but work a shift that warrents good pay
full of bile....yes we are because we want a fair go as we see what OUR bosses get and we want a fair deal nothing more or less and that will bring back the good will and respect to a once great company....the rim
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with a hatred for the Company that funds their being.
People posting here do not have a hatred for the company.
Quite the opposite. Most people had a great sense of pride in working for Qantas and most still do to a certain extent, albeit, with a sense of despair.
They are now fed up with the systematic destruction of the company for the greed of a few.
The future for staff and the airline is far from clear. We hear on the one hand that Qantas is one of the most financially sound airlines in the world yet jobs are constantly under threat... staff branded as "kamikaze's" for asking for a fair go?
It is the Pilots, Engineers and Cabin Crew along with many other staff that have made Qantas the great company it was in the past. It's just sad to watch that all fall apart.
We are told "If you don't like it, leave". That's a very simplistic solution.
I for one, do not want to leave. I want those that are damaging the company to leave.
Yet we are told it is our representatives from various trade unions that are "damaging the brand".
Putting bumbling fools on TV who don't know a staple from an approved repair is damaging the brand just to quote one example.
It is the Pilots, Engineers and Cabin Crew along with many other staff that have made Qantas the great company it was in the past. It's just sad to watch that all fall apart.
BSC, from my perspective "It's soul destroying to watch all that be ripped apart" is closer to reality!
Mr. Joyce is spreading FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
Mr. Joyce and his management cohorts have made it quite plain that they have total contempt for their entire Australian workforce and wish to replace them at their earliest opportunity.
The obvious stupidity is the implication that "long term job security" can only come from accepting Third world conditions of employment.
There are other management trolls on this forum, just as they did at the time of your last EBA. "Unionist1974" is most probably "Aircraft", remember him?
Mr. Joyce and his management cohorts have made it quite plain that they have total contempt for their entire Australian workforce and wish to replace them at their earliest opportunity.
He said he still hoped to reach a mutually beneficial outcome with unions but the demands being put forward by union leadership “are so extreme and so damaging to Qantas” that he could not accept them.
“Any strike action could be seriously damaging to our performance in the short term,” he said.
“But the long-term effect could be even worse: to drive our international customers into the waiting arms of the competition who are largely not Australian-owned, not unionised and have few Australian workers.
“This is a recipe for permanent damage to our brand, and puts at risk the long-term security of our jobs.”
“Any strike action could be seriously damaging to our performance in the short term,” he said.
“But the long-term effect could be even worse: to drive our international customers into the waiting arms of the competition who are largely not Australian-owned, not unionised and have few Australian workers.
“This is a recipe for permanent damage to our brand, and puts at risk the long-term security of our jobs.”
There are other management trolls on this forum, just as they did at the time of your last EBA. "Unionist1974" is most probably "Aircraft", remember him?
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FUD - quite right Sunfish - Joyce & Co lack vision simply because they can't see over the top of their wallets.
Noted that the Board esp Clifford who has an overt opinion on everything, have all been somewhat silent and very, very low key.
Yesterday's speech was little more than a rant from a tyrant in trouble and if his advisors had any professional ability they would brief Joyce, CN & Ors., to stick to the main game and not drag industrial negotiations into the open.
Speaking of advice - QF Corp Affairs flunkie who should know better:
pls note that you really need to watch your 'cafe talk' - very offensive to the operational staff that actually do the work ....
AT
Noted that the Board esp Clifford who has an overt opinion on everything, have all been somewhat silent and very, very low key.
Yesterday's speech was little more than a rant from a tyrant in trouble and if his advisors had any professional ability they would brief Joyce, CN & Ors., to stick to the main game and not drag industrial negotiations into the open.
Speaking of advice - QF Corp Affairs flunkie who should know better:
pls note that you really need to watch your 'cafe talk' - very offensive to the operational staff that actually do the work ....
AT
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Why?
Q) Why did Joyce make such inflammatory statements about the combined Union leadership in a press conference the day before meeting with them?
A) Because it suits his agenda to have industrial unrest!
Q) Why have Qantas Corporate failed to negotiate in good faith with Pilots, Engineers or TWU?
A) Because it suits Joyce's agenda not to settle any EBAs at the momment!
Q) How long will "big money" sit back and let such a destructive force remain as Qantas CEO?
A) ?
A) Because it suits his agenda to have industrial unrest!
Q) Why have Qantas Corporate failed to negotiate in good faith with Pilots, Engineers or TWU?
A) Because it suits Joyce's agenda not to settle any EBAs at the momment!
Q) How long will "big money" sit back and let such a destructive force remain as Qantas CEO?
A) ?
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AJ's "kamikaze" line is very insulting considering it is the pilots and engineers trying to keep things safely in the air.
All the more for those of us whose parents fought against Japanese back then.
It is the boards and CEOs of the various airlines that are the true kamikazes in a racing dive to the bottom.And we all know what happens to kamikazes.
Mr Joyce you are not doing yourself or qantas any favours.The divide needs to be narrowed not widened by silly rhetoric.
All the more for those of us whose parents fought against Japanese back then.
It is the boards and CEOs of the various airlines that are the true kamikazes in a racing dive to the bottom.And we all know what happens to kamikazes.
Mr Joyce you are not doing yourself or qantas any favours.The divide needs to be narrowed not widened by silly rhetoric.
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There are other management trolls on this forum, just as they did at the time of your last EBA. "Unionist1974" is most probably "Aircraft", remember him?
“But the long-term effect could be even worse: to drive our international customers into the waiting arms of the competition who are largely not Australian-owned, not unionised and have few Australian workers.
AJ you have a choice. Either ambrace the spirit of Australia and our workers (who provided QF with the excellence in Engineering and Safety that this airline was built on), or forgo all of that and head offshore. Then what will you be left with? It seems the path you are trying to take is destroying this airline, not us!
People used to fly us because our safety record was unblemished. Now we have a managers telling us that safety is simply a given with any MRO or operator. Why can't you guys see what we all can see, that this type of short-selling of our safety and standards is destroying us. We were once "Worlds best practice" in everything we did.
I usually try to maintain some sort of decorum in these threads, but seriously, some of our managers need a good rocket up their backsides.
Last edited by Ngineer; 20th Apr 2011 at 00:33.
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Ngineer
Why can't you guys see what we all can see, that this type of short-selling of our safety and standards is destroying us.
The shame about the situation is that the Board should be the custodians of the future of Qantas. They are just sitting back, cheering on AJ, LS and CN.
Think of the damage Sol Trujillo did to Telstra (and also Australia). Again, the Board sat back until it was to late.
Patricia Cross, Richard Goodmanson, Garry Hounsell, Paul Raynor, Dr John Schubert, Barbara Ward, James Strong, General Peter Cosgrove - Wake up, you're asleep at the wheel, do something!!
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Patricia Cross, Richard Goodmanson, Garry Hounsell, Paul Raynor, Dr John Schubert, Barbara Ward, James Strong, General Peter Cosgrove - Wake up, you're asleep at the wheel, do something!!
Finally someone has exposed the root cause.
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Millet Fanger,
That's true if the Board are fully informed by Management of the state of affairs.
I know of CEOs that don't fully brief their Boards!
Mike
That's true if the Board are fully informed by Management of the state of affairs.
I know of CEOs that don't fully brief their Boards!
Mike
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The 7:30 report was interesting
Alan Joyce @ 6:40
"we are hopefull that sense will prevail, and our people
will agree to a sensible outcome for all the parties"
Yep, just need to put a sensible offer on the table.
Alan Joyce @ 6:40
"we are hopefull that sense will prevail, and our people
will agree to a sensible outcome for all the parties"
Yep, just need to put a sensible offer on the table.
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Hey Fed Sec, is there any plan for the union to go to the media to refute the propaganda that AJ keeps spinning?
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Buggary Campaign Continues
Just to prove the point that Qantas won't be forced to negotiate in "good faith" if it doesn't want to, they have removed the LAME job functions during a transit check. As of today the paperwork issued by Qantas for a transit check has stamped down the "sign off column" - LAME NOT REQUIRED.
No discussion, no consultation, in breach of it's own QEPM, in breach of an EBA agreement, a unilateral Kamikaze decision.
You may as well roll out the next Engagement Survey, I didn't think it was possible, but I am more disengaged than I was when I filled out last week's survey.
No discussion, no consultation, in breach of it's own QEPM, in breach of an EBA agreement, a unilateral Kamikaze decision.
You may as well roll out the next Engagement Survey, I didn't think it was possible, but I am more disengaged than I was when I filled out last week's survey.
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Just to prove the point that Qantas won't be forced to negotiate in "good faith" if it doesn't want to, they have removed the LAME job functions during a transit check. As of today the paperwork issued by Qantas for a transit check has stamped down the "sign off column" - LAME NOT REQUIRED.
I think 7 days notice for PIA should see us clear of the Easter break.
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AJ's jpb is to make money for the shareholders.
The Board Members are shareholders.
There are two ways he can make money,
1/ Incerase revenue.
2; Reduce expenses.
The revenue is on track ( $450 millinon profit for the first half of the financial year ).
All thats left now is to reduce expenses.
How best to achieve this?
Reduce your pay!!!
By not giving you a pay rise that is at least in line with the rise in livivg costs, you are taking a pay cut!
QF Management is only interested in making money, they are not interested in the long term success of QF. Only short term gains (3 to 5 years ).
Qf Management cannot be trusted, they will never negotiate 'In Good Faith'.
The Board Members are shareholders.
There are two ways he can make money,
1/ Incerase revenue.
2; Reduce expenses.
The revenue is on track ( $450 millinon profit for the first half of the financial year ).
All thats left now is to reduce expenses.
How best to achieve this?
Reduce your pay!!!
By not giving you a pay rise that is at least in line with the rise in livivg costs, you are taking a pay cut!
QF Management is only interested in making money, they are not interested in the long term success of QF. Only short term gains (3 to 5 years ).
Qf Management cannot be trusted, they will never negotiate 'In Good Faith'.
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The Olive Branch
We can all see the current stand-off by management has the appearance of a hidden agenda to contract the mainline business, middle management included. To dispense with it's expensive wage model and embedded inefficient work cultures (let's not mention the brand equity and safety record thanks to highly trained and devoted employees, no let's not go there).
The new world order wants an LCC airline with a dividend included (good luck!). The mainline airline can enjoy the monolopy of the critical mass domestic market.
Just as dividends and LCC's don't usually appear in the same sentence I am as confused with AJ's statements as anyone.
"We love our pilots, they are so experienced and devoted"
Their dreamin' if they want fookin job security !!
So here's The Olive Branch.
Let's be honest there are alot of the mature engineers amongst us who are being worn down by the bullying tactics of management. It's a constant buggery campaign and we have all experienced it.
The last fight cost the Red Rat $150m.
I am only guessing but perhaps there is 300 engineers Australia wide who would gladly say "show me the money, I'm out of here"
Each would attract an average package excluding leave entitlements of about $180K given most will be long term employees. That totals $54m.
The remaining 900 Lames get job security, surely AJ would sign off on 75% of his current LAMEs as secure.
The alternate is a long long drawn out fight with no winners, public included and one big extraordinary expense (Ansett No.2) on the 2011 Annual report.
Sure it's a white flag and politcally it goes against unionism, but we are against a company, a government regulator and globalisation of reduced safety investment by airlines.
It's about moving on (so I can enjoy a latte while I read Friday's Aviation section), we have a mature workforce, the company will not stop until there is a smoking hole in the ground and most of us don't want to be around for that. We have a group that would gladly be the martyrs and leave our younger and tougher warriors to fight on while they get some job security for a period.
Do a survey who wants to go, who wants to stay.
Go to AJ.... here's the numbers.
Give the remaining job security and it's a deal.
Bring on your Lameless tarmacs and No man ONS, get rid of middle managers, utilise the Rolls Royce Gold Card (Sorry GH and gang, services not required), gloat over the resurging share price and call us when there's a smoking hole in the ground.
That's when we will say "Safety isn't about money it a culture, let's start again"
I would personally prefer the Olive Branch but happy to go the 15 rounds if AJ is in no mood to negotiate.
Have a happy Easter.
Over to you Fed Sec....
The new world order wants an LCC airline with a dividend included (good luck!). The mainline airline can enjoy the monolopy of the critical mass domestic market.
Just as dividends and LCC's don't usually appear in the same sentence I am as confused with AJ's statements as anyone.
"We love our pilots, they are so experienced and devoted"
Their dreamin' if they want fookin job security !!
So here's The Olive Branch.
Let's be honest there are alot of the mature engineers amongst us who are being worn down by the bullying tactics of management. It's a constant buggery campaign and we have all experienced it.
The last fight cost the Red Rat $150m.
I am only guessing but perhaps there is 300 engineers Australia wide who would gladly say "show me the money, I'm out of here"
Each would attract an average package excluding leave entitlements of about $180K given most will be long term employees. That totals $54m.
The remaining 900 Lames get job security, surely AJ would sign off on 75% of his current LAMEs as secure.
The alternate is a long long drawn out fight with no winners, public included and one big extraordinary expense (Ansett No.2) on the 2011 Annual report.
Sure it's a white flag and politcally it goes against unionism, but we are against a company, a government regulator and globalisation of reduced safety investment by airlines.
It's about moving on (so I can enjoy a latte while I read Friday's Aviation section), we have a mature workforce, the company will not stop until there is a smoking hole in the ground and most of us don't want to be around for that. We have a group that would gladly be the martyrs and leave our younger and tougher warriors to fight on while they get some job security for a period.
Do a survey who wants to go, who wants to stay.
Go to AJ.... here's the numbers.
Give the remaining job security and it's a deal.
Bring on your Lameless tarmacs and No man ONS, get rid of middle managers, utilise the Rolls Royce Gold Card (Sorry GH and gang, services not required), gloat over the resurging share price and call us when there's a smoking hole in the ground.
That's when we will say "Safety isn't about money it a culture, let's start again"
I would personally prefer the Olive Branch but happy to go the 15 rounds if AJ is in no mood to negotiate.
Have a happy Easter.
Over to you Fed Sec....