Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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We have a good bunch of members at JH guys. Ultimately there will be plenty of work for everyone, we just need to make sure we aren't constantly undercutting each other to reduce terms and conditions.
Last edited by Jethro Gibbs; 19th Nov 2011 at 08:34.
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What are Qantas Engineers Fighting for
A typical Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (LAME) working for an airline eg. Qantas, has from age 18 done a 4 year Apprenticeship, learning basic aircraft from nose to tail, rivet to rivet, wire to wire. Has spent those 4 years as an apprentice cycling through every aspect of aircraft maintenance areas, be it Heavy Maintenance hangar, workshops, ramp and college to see all aspects of an aircraft inside out.
During this time he is assigned to a crew of Engineers working shifts of day and nights 24/7 365 days a year. Under the guidance of a typical Leading Hand, a 25 to 40 year veteran LAME and many other 15 to 30 year LAMEs as crew mates, He will spends a further 5 to 8 years learning the basic tooling, test equipment, repair procedures, sitting up to 20 or more exams for light aircraft mechanical & avionic systems.
This is the bare minimum requirement before a person is considered worthy enough by CASA (Civil Aviation Safety Authority) and Qantas to be trained on an aircraft type, eg. Boeing 737, a 3 months full time class room training with aircraft simulator work (full flight simulator that Pilots use) to understand how that type of aircraft responds to controls, adverse conditions, how emergency systems work and how backup systems come into play etc He then comes back to the crew of Engineers and is closely monitored and guided as he starts to use his new skills as a LAME under the guidance of the LAMEs on the crew.
The above is now known as “Outdated Work Practices”
What Qantas and CASA are now about to unleash on the travelling public is this.
We will now have a teenager with no apprenticeship or for that matter no aircraft knowledge, straight from Macca’s flipping burgers, red P plates, spend 2 years skateboarding, smoking dope, staff traveling to Bali & Bangkok and some time on a crew working aircraft. After that 2 years at age 18 he will be trained for 2 weeks how to change tyres, top up oil and be in charge of servicing your aeroplane at the end of its 14 hour flight, before the next 14 hour sector and certify it if safe to fly again. No more will experienced eyes scan over the aeroplane but a teenager who you may not trust to service your car will now have your life in his hands.
This is what Qantas LAMEs are fighting for, these so called outdated work practices, SAFETY for the travelling public and not outrageous pay increases.
SC
During this time he is assigned to a crew of Engineers working shifts of day and nights 24/7 365 days a year. Under the guidance of a typical Leading Hand, a 25 to 40 year veteran LAME and many other 15 to 30 year LAMEs as crew mates, He will spends a further 5 to 8 years learning the basic tooling, test equipment, repair procedures, sitting up to 20 or more exams for light aircraft mechanical & avionic systems.
This is the bare minimum requirement before a person is considered worthy enough by CASA (Civil Aviation Safety Authority) and Qantas to be trained on an aircraft type, eg. Boeing 737, a 3 months full time class room training with aircraft simulator work (full flight simulator that Pilots use) to understand how that type of aircraft responds to controls, adverse conditions, how emergency systems work and how backup systems come into play etc He then comes back to the crew of Engineers and is closely monitored and guided as he starts to use his new skills as a LAME under the guidance of the LAMEs on the crew.
The above is now known as “Outdated Work Practices”
What Qantas and CASA are now about to unleash on the travelling public is this.
We will now have a teenager with no apprenticeship or for that matter no aircraft knowledge, straight from Macca’s flipping burgers, red P plates, spend 2 years skateboarding, smoking dope, staff traveling to Bali & Bangkok and some time on a crew working aircraft. After that 2 years at age 18 he will be trained for 2 weeks how to change tyres, top up oil and be in charge of servicing your aeroplane at the end of its 14 hour flight, before the next 14 hour sector and certify it if safe to fly again. No more will experienced eyes scan over the aeroplane but a teenager who you may not trust to service your car will now have your life in his hands.
This is what Qantas LAMEs are fighting for, these so called outdated work practices, SAFETY for the travelling public and not outrageous pay increases.
SC
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 19th Nov 2011 at 21:46.
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We will now have a teenager with no apprenticeship or for that matter no aircraft knowledge, straight from Macca’s flipping burgers, red P plates, spend 2 years skateboarding, smoking dope, staff travel to Bali & Bangkok and some time on a crew working aircraft. After that 2 years at age 18 he will be trained for 2 weeks how to change tyres, top up oil and be in charge of servicing your aeroplane at the end of its 14 hour flight, before the next 14 hour sector and certify it if safe to fly again. No more will experienced eyes scan over the aeroplane but a teenager who you may not trust to service your car will now have your life in his hands.
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It is called the "A license". Came into effect July 2011.
DAMP will do what exactly to gen Y. Stop them smoking pot?, just like laws that will stop them texting whilst driving or speeding or taking unsafe risks etc.
DAMP will do what exactly to gen Y. Stop them smoking pot?, just like laws that will stop them texting whilst driving or speeding or taking unsafe risks etc.
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I think you still need to have a cert IV in aeroskills, more skills than burger flipping are required.
QF have just finished training their AMs (non aircraft AMEs) to AME standard. This was due to the fact that a cert IV is the minimum required to perform maintenance now.
The days of the QF bastardised apprenticeship have gone, it was good to see that the system QF put into place bit them in the arse.
QF have just finished training their AMs (non aircraft AMEs) to AME standard. This was due to the fact that a cert IV is the minimum required to perform maintenance now.
The days of the QF bastardised apprenticeship have gone, it was good to see that the system QF put into place bit them in the arse.
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AS
I'm pretty sure Cat A kiddies will only require a Cert II plus two years industry experience plus task specific training, at least 18 years old and their good to go.
'Captain, Return to Service, is signed'. Safe flying.
I'm pretty sure Cat A kiddies will only require a Cert II plus two years industry experience plus task specific training, at least 18 years old and their good to go.
'Captain, Return to Service, is signed'. Safe flying.
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That is what this EBA has been about, job security. Not just outsourcing, but diluting the amount of experience / training that will be required by those who sign for maintenance after it has been carried out.
Qantas management want to get rid of LAMEs, and where they have to, replace them with the most least experienced / trained people possible.
I would be concerned but management have a mantra with the word 'safety' in it, so these changes that they are willing to ground an airline for must have nothing to do with money, yeh?
Qantas management want to get rid of LAMEs, and where they have to, replace them with the most least experienced / trained people possible.
I would be concerned but management have a mantra with the word 'safety' in it, so these changes that they are willing to ground an airline for must have nothing to do with money, yeh?
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What are Qantas Engineers Fighting for
Basically all the trades seem to be getting dumbed down into more theoretical and less practical. The time of the 4 year apprenticeship seems to be gone or on the chopping block. Quality craftsmen if you will seem to be a thing of the past
The problem with you guys though it potentially has more dire consequences compared to what the rest of us can f$%^ up.
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Win, loose or draw in FWA Qantas will haemorrhage from these events every day as the staff become even more disengaged, (if that is possible).
Setting up my chair by the river bank as we speak.
Setting up my chair by the river bank as we speak.
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Win, loose or draw in FWA Qantas will haemorrhage from these events every day as the staff become even more disengaged, (if that is possible).
Setting up my chair by the river bank as we speak.
Setting up my chair by the river bank as we speak.
AJ got what he wanted. Stonewalled the unions, wasted three weeks, and will get FWA to arbitrate. There was no way that these matters were going to be resolved in three weeks, and another three weeks would have resulted in a zero anyway.
What happens from now on with FWA is anybody's guess, unless AJ and his merry band of cronies know what's going on behind the scenes. How long will the FWA take to hand down its decision? How long is a piece of string?
The longer FWA take, the better for the QF board, while they put some other plans into action to further erode QANTAS International and the rest of the mainline company.
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Just came over the news on the radio that all 3 unions have failed to come to agreement. Will be interesting to see how long it takes now. What happens if we are still in arbitration when they announce redundancies?
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It aint over yet,
Fed Sec SP has stated on nine news
I believe that any items already agreed to will stay and only outstanding items will be dictated by FWA. Could be a win / win 
FWA meeting with ALAEA due to start 17:00 tonight.
Fed Sec SP has stated on nine news
The dispute between Qantas and the engineers will also now be sorted out through arbitration, the engineers' union's Steve Purvinas says.
"We have made some progress during our negotiations but four or five matters do remain outstanding and we think at this stage it's probably best if we go to arbitration to sort them out," Mr Purvinas told reporters outside Fair Work Australia in Sydney.
"So we won't be seeking a 21-day extension
"We have made some progress during our negotiations but four or five matters do remain outstanding and we think at this stage it's probably best if we go to arbitration to sort them out," Mr Purvinas told reporters outside Fair Work Australia in Sydney.
"So we won't be seeking a 21-day extension
FWA meeting with ALAEA due to start 17:00 tonight.