Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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I am told that the BBJ will always require a LAME to sign the tech log as every sector is regarded as ETOPS. Something that is done as the aircraft may require to change destination in flight and that destination may be ETOPS.
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Sorry AVENG you are correct. I didn't put my first post too well. Yes LAME's are not required every flight, however all pax flights are treated ETOPS and last time I checked, the pilots are not trained (or allowed ??) to do ETOPS preflts. Is that correct?
E
E
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Fed Sec
Steve, given the prediction of a drawn out blue, has the LAME Union considered reopening the fund set up for the Sunni Boys. Build the coffers early and redistribute the cash later if not needed.
Maybe just a brain snap and not PIA related for the stood down skipper, but I imagine trying to retrieve lost wages through company channels will take a little longer than in the past, and thats only after QF admit to being wrong. There are still outstanding issues along these lines from last PIA.
Steve, given the prediction of a drawn out blue, has the LAME Union considered reopening the fund set up for the Sunni Boys. Build the coffers early and redistribute the cash later if not needed.
Maybe just a brain snap and not PIA related for the stood down skipper, but I imagine trying to retrieve lost wages through company channels will take a little longer than in the past, and thats only after QF admit to being wrong. There are still outstanding issues along these lines from last PIA.
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We have 1600 members who will be involved in this blue. Initially a few here and there will be docked for stupid reasons by the airline but in the long run I think they will try and use this tactic on all. We will be doing everything to prevent the ability for management to dock wages but it will happen. Covering the 20 low paid Sunstate blokes was easy but it would be a hard task if they made up some rubbish and hit 1600 LAMEs at once. Following our instructions to the letter will close as many opportunities for them to dock and we will be very concious of sharing the load around.
I think it would however be an important gesture for us to chip in a few bucks for this one Pilot if and when he needs it. They did also support the Sunny blokes and as a token thing I think it worth it. I say that not becasue I feel more for a Pilot than any LAME. What has happened here presents an opportunity for us to blow up and expose all the truth about Qantas subsidisation of other parts of their business. I for the life of me cannot comprehend how the "Frequent Flyer" business can be profitable and the fully loaded aircraft with the highest International ticket prices on the market can be making a loss. This needs to be exposed because it is all looking a little smelly from here.
I think it would however be an important gesture for us to chip in a few bucks for this one Pilot if and when he needs it. They did also support the Sunny blokes and as a token thing I think it worth it. I say that not becasue I feel more for a Pilot than any LAME. What has happened here presents an opportunity for us to blow up and expose all the truth about Qantas subsidisation of other parts of their business. I for the life of me cannot comprehend how the "Frequent Flyer" business can be profitable and the fully loaded aircraft with the highest International ticket prices on the market can be making a loss. This needs to be exposed because it is all looking a little smelly from here.
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Steve,
Excuse me asking, however as you know I am no longer in the Industry, and was never with Qantas, but reading the various posts here on PPRuNe not only this one and now this preflight business, but so may posts about the Pilots too, one would have to think that there are many major problems at Qantas.
Is it really that bad.
Excuse me asking, however as you know I am no longer in the Industry, and was never with Qantas, but reading the various posts here on PPRuNe not only this one and now this preflight business, but so may posts about the Pilots too, one would have to think that there are many major problems at Qantas.
Is it really that bad.
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Just A Thought
Hey Fed Sec,
Many of us are getting too old for a prolonged antagonistic approach to industrial relations when we can see that the Company has everything on its side.
What about a good fight with a fall back position of, for example,
LAME's On Demand = 1. Total Wage.
2. 6 Weeks Annual Leave.
3. Increased redundancy package for those expressing interest.
4. Only LAME's wanting to go, can go.
5. Anyone wanting to go, CAN go, not the old we will decide if you can go or not.
etc, etc, etc...
These are just some thoughts and I am interested to hear the reaction. When it all boils down, it is their Company and they will get what they want eventually, not matter what we do to drag it out.
GH has already been to a port somewhere south of ASP telling anyone that would listen that this is the Company's plans, so it will come sooner or later.
What do we all think?
Many of us are getting too old for a prolonged antagonistic approach to industrial relations when we can see that the Company has everything on its side.
What about a good fight with a fall back position of, for example,
LAME's On Demand = 1. Total Wage.
2. 6 Weeks Annual Leave.
3. Increased redundancy package for those expressing interest.
4. Only LAME's wanting to go, can go.
5. Anyone wanting to go, CAN go, not the old we will decide if you can go or not.
etc, etc, etc...
These are just some thoughts and I am interested to hear the reaction. When it all boils down, it is their Company and they will get what they want eventually, not matter what we do to drag it out.
GH has already been to a port somewhere south of ASP telling anyone that would listen that this is the Company's plans, so it will come sooner or later.
What do we all think?
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When it all boils down, it is their Company and they will get what they want eventually, not matter what we do to drag it out.
When PIA can cause a massive amount of pressure on the Board, many many Boards have replaced management teams / CEO's in an effort to mend relationships with the employee groups.
We do not have a job without the company, the company does not have a company without skilled, experienced and loyal staff.
So broadly speaking you are in a very good negotiating position whilst ever the collective is the collective of skilled, experienced and loyal staff.
I would wager the company is ****ting themselves, facing off with the two very determined, tactical and very well financed groups (Pilots and LAMEs), look at the share price for one indicator of what has been achieved thus far.
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When it all boils down, it is their Company and they will get what they want eventually, not matter what we do to drag it out.
Firstly S&B, it is not "their" company. It is the shareholder's company. They "manage" it - and I use the term loosely - on behalf of the shareholders. I hold a significant shareholding. I have not received a dividend in two years. I have seen my capital wither on the vine. I am appalled at the way "my" company is being "managed". And I am not alone. There are shareholders with vastly more at stake and with more resources than myself who also hold grave doubts. Some of those resources are quietly being deployed. Why? Because they have stopped listening to the glib assurances being delivered by some on the Board and the executive management. The pressure is not on us.
Secondly, where would we be now if two years ago we had the attitude "they will get what they want eventually, no matter what we do to drag it out"?
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What about a good fight with a fall back position of, for example,
LAME's On Demand = 1. Total Wage.
2. 6 Weeks Annual Leave.
3. Increased redundancy package for those expressing interest.
4. Only LAME's wanting to go, can go.
5. Anyone wanting to go, CAN go, not the old we will decide if you can go or not.
LAME's On Demand = 1. Total Wage.
2. 6 Weeks Annual Leave.
3. Increased redundancy package for those expressing interest.
4. Only LAME's wanting to go, can go.
5. Anyone wanting to go, CAN go, not the old we will decide if you can go or not.
Let me try and explain it in a way that doesn't express anything that has been said. Say for instance the exact compromise you have posted was put to the airline tomorrow. I would expect the answers to be -
LAME's On Demand (ok we will accept that but we also want you to give up all aircraft arrivals, pushouts, grd power connections and marshalling. The baggage handlers will call you out if there was an airworthiness defect only)
=
1. Total Wage. (No)
2. 6 Weeks Annual Leave. (No)
3. Increased redundancy package for those expressing interest. (No)
4. Only LAME's wanting to go, can go. (No)
5. Anyone wanting to go, CAN go, not the old we will decide if you can go or not. (No)
But we will give you 3% per annum.
These b@stards want a war mate however much you and I don't like it. They want it to further damage the International brand so they can justify other changes. They want you and I to pay for the 2008 dispute and they will go to any length to ensure that happens. They do not want you to have a job anymore. Please don't despair. They don't hold all the cards and their management team are leaking their plans like a sieve. They can't run an airline properly, don't expect them to be able to outsmart 1600 LAMEs and the same amount of Tech Crew in an Industrial dispute.
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In Steve we trust.
In Q management I do not.
S&B, I am amazed as to why some (very few) members still feel a conciliatory approach with our management is the right approach, when it is very, very clear as to the strategic direction we're heading involves a direct attack on your T&Cs.
In Q management I do not.
S&B, I am amazed as to why some (very few) members still feel a conciliatory approach with our management is the right approach, when it is very, very clear as to the strategic direction we're heading involves a direct attack on your T&Cs.
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clipped
I think many members think we may and hope we will be able to resolve this EB without much bloodshed....but WE do believe in what the ALAEA is putting forward and will do whats required when the time comes....but most just want to get on with our work and carry the great name of Qantas forward....the rim
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Hey Steve....
What's happening ??
Who got stood down, by whom, and what was "their" reason for doing this ?
If they object to one of us reading the MM's twice, I'd suggest we ALL KEEP reading them once before we do ANY job
(AS, OF COURSE, WE ALWAYS DO, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE QEPM)
Next time we do an ANC / CHK-1 there's a sh!t-load of AMM reading to do !!
Do we have the "Boeing approved" rags to wipe the oleos ?
That'll take 30 minutes to research on it's own !!
And of course, printed AMM are ONLY valid for the engineer who printed them out for HIS job, if you want the same information YOU have to research it....Each and every time.
Got GRN numbers on all the oil / skydrol dispensers ? What about the grease guns, have they got GRN's for the grease and calibration stickers to ensure that they put out the required pressure ?
Got an AMM reference for replacing a blown-out grease nipple ?
Oh...I can see the computer system going into even further melt-down
ST
Who got stood down, by whom, and what was "their" reason for doing this ?
If they object to one of us reading the MM's twice, I'd suggest we ALL KEEP reading them once before we do ANY job
(AS, OF COURSE, WE ALWAYS DO, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE QEPM)
Next time we do an ANC / CHK-1 there's a sh!t-load of AMM reading to do !!
Do we have the "Boeing approved" rags to wipe the oleos ?
That'll take 30 minutes to research on it's own !!
And of course, printed AMM are ONLY valid for the engineer who printed them out for HIS job, if you want the same information YOU have to research it....Each and every time.
Got GRN numbers on all the oil / skydrol dispensers ? What about the grease guns, have they got GRN's for the grease and calibration stickers to ensure that they put out the required pressure ?
Got an AMM reference for replacing a blown-out grease nipple ?
Oh...I can see the computer system going into even further melt-down
ST
Last edited by SpannerTwister; 29th Jul 2011 at 12:10. Reason: To clarify
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Biffa in Perth stood down for one day for taking PIA in the form of a partial workban. His PIA was to read each procedure twice before commencing a task. All legal from both sides.
Just be careful what you suggest we do on here, company are watching closely and have be known to bring stuff posted on sites into court rooms. If you just do you job as you normally do you should be right.
I will raise one thing though that has been escalated tonight. Two weeks ago it was highlighted to management that there was a problem with a cabin log, three defects were reported on one coupon. It was suggested that they advise Cabin Crew that the approved procedure was one defect per entry.
Whilst the problem was being highlighted, another LAME advised a Senior manager that he had sent several emails to management regarding this issue and nothing had been done about it. The Cabin Crew member who made the illegal entry is not under investigation. The manager who did nothing about it is not either. But I was advised tonight that the fu**en clowns running the show are investigating the LAME who reported it, but did it in breach of policy because he shouldn't have made the complaint via email, he should have filled out a form 500.
They are on the warpath guys so if they are so fu**cken stupid to target a LAME because in their view, he filled out the wrong form, make sure you are filling out the correct form for every error or near misss you see.
Just be careful what you suggest we do on here, company are watching closely and have be known to bring stuff posted on sites into court rooms. If you just do you job as you normally do you should be right.
I will raise one thing though that has been escalated tonight. Two weeks ago it was highlighted to management that there was a problem with a cabin log, three defects were reported on one coupon. It was suggested that they advise Cabin Crew that the approved procedure was one defect per entry.
Whilst the problem was being highlighted, another LAME advised a Senior manager that he had sent several emails to management regarding this issue and nothing had been done about it. The Cabin Crew member who made the illegal entry is not under investigation. The manager who did nothing about it is not either. But I was advised tonight that the fu**en clowns running the show are investigating the LAME who reported it, but did it in breach of policy because he shouldn't have made the complaint via email, he should have filled out a form 500.
They are on the warpath guys so if they are so fu**cken stupid to target a LAME because in their view, he filled out the wrong form, make sure you are filling out the correct form for every error or near misss you see.
God, I'm glad I or my son dont work for QANTAS these days. A few years ago I would have given my eye teeth to work for Q, Wow how things have changed, I wonder if the top management think they are/have done a good job. If there are any management types on this forum, please answer the question.
