Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In the sky, mostly
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is not about GA vs Cadet. It is about hiring a fresh CPL over someone with years and thousands of hours experience. Jetstar recruits don't just come from GA. Many (most?) come from airlines with significant jet and/or turbine time. I could understand a scheme to supplement direct entry during times of high demand, but to hire a cadet before interviewing an experienced applicant wouldn't make any sense other than financial (and maybe they won't).
Those who don't fly the line just don't realise the value of a good experienced First Officer. They're excellent value when they prevent an incident or accident - which does happen. Did they ask the line pilots thoughts?
Umm, I think you just skip the experience bit, which naturally accelerates the process a little.
Those who don't fly the line just don't realise the value of a good experienced First Officer. They're excellent value when they prevent an incident or accident - which does happen. Did they ask the line pilots thoughts?
A cadetship is an accelerated process into a job that most others would spend years working towards. In other words, and with all due respect to GA drivers, cadetships will only take the brightest people who have the aptitude to learn quickly.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Coober Pedy
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
people who go the GA way will always have an advantage over cadets! they will have experience landing under extreme pressure in all kinds of conditions, having engine problems on thier own etc...
Go for it kids, leave GA to those who can't get into the airlines. And don't listen to guys rant about lowering conditions. THey had their opportunity to join full service airlines but failed.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location Location
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a little egotistical comparing yourself to a doctor isnt it??? Back down to earth please! A smart uniform does not put someone on the same tier as a medical professional.
GB
Therein lies a large problem. Medical professionals include doctors and allied health. Physio's Chiro's, Podiatrists etc.
For some reason I've never worked out, we as professional pilots, eat our young. We have NO PEER SUPPORT WHATSOEVER. That GB is the only difference in our professions.
Podiatrist gets it horribly wrong badly, man has sore feet and some blisters or a manky toenail.
Pilots get it horribly wrong. then what?
Whatever happened as a society to payment commensurate with responsibility
I reckon im off back to uni. This industry is f%^ked
GB
Therein lies a large problem. Medical professionals include doctors and allied health. Physio's Chiro's, Podiatrists etc.
For some reason I've never worked out, we as professional pilots, eat our young. We have NO PEER SUPPORT WHATSOEVER. That GB is the only difference in our professions.
Podiatrist gets it horribly wrong badly, man has sore feet and some blisters or a manky toenail.
Pilots get it horribly wrong. then what?
Whatever happened as a society to payment commensurate with responsibility
I reckon im off back to uni. This industry is f%^ked
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 34
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well im not really a jealous idiot because i am not in GA I am still a student pilot and have never worked a day in the aviation industry. like i said before this is MY opinion based on what I have heard not my experience. I have been working my butt off for 3 years whilst studying at uni, now trying to save to pay for my training and cadetships like this are really good because I wont have to rough it up north and can just go straight into an airline. So what I am saying is that by doing this I feel like I have gone the 'not so rough' way and maybe those who roughed it might see this as unfair, and I understand why they would think that.
Awesome windup Sheffield...
Flying jets three times as hard as GA eh? I guess it depends on what sort of GA...
j3
Flying jets three times as hard as GA eh? I guess it depends on what sort of GA...
j3
Where as a GA pilot you can have a vague idea about what regs are applicable and look them up if required, as an Airline Pilot you need to know it period.
I love GA, I love piston aeroplanes but after slogging it out in the bush for six years I wonder if these programs do have merit. If you want to be an airline Pilot why not learn to be one straight away instead of learning a skill that is irrelevant to your end goal?
The Jetstar cadet scheme sucks IMO BUT I think that if such a scheme was implemented and done right, it could be a winner (Cathay etc)
I still would rather be sitting in that left seat one day reflecting on 210s barons 404s metros etc and be able to appreciate what I have. Not everyone feels the same however.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location Location
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nt.pilot you are a jealous idiot...what you just wrote is complete and utter crap and has confirmed the fact that you are only 21 and still in GA.
Only 21 and STILL in G.A?
He could be any age, you'll just be old AND a still complete w^nker
Only 21 and STILL in G.A?
He could be any age, you'll just be old AND a still complete w^nker
Normally I agree with most things you say J3 but he does have a point. Whilst manipulating an Airbus on Autopilot is not exactly rocket science it will take a fair few years to actually understand what mode you are in and what works best for the current situation. Guy's I know who have flown the bus for sometime still say it surprises them.
I challenge J* VB Aircrew to show how their job is harder than the RFDS... That's what I was referring to. Sliding down ILS's/RNAV's is a cinch compared to dropping into 1000m of dirt, dimly lit by portable power, off a blackhole approach at 3am, by yourself.
Where as a GA pilot you can have a vague idea about what regs are applicable and look them up if required, as an Airline Pilot you need to know it period.
I think it comes down to idealogies. Perhaps cadetships will be the way of the future, with a wax figure of a GA pilot in the museums 50 years from now. However, I do not think an airline charging for the cadetship is the right direction.
j3
holdmetight
You are making the assumption a DEFO or DESO doesn’t go through a thorough airline selection process which is commensurate with their experience. Both selection processes have their flaws which are easily measured in failure rates during initial and ongoing training/checking.
With the exception of the QF cadet scheme, cadetships in this part of the world are a very new thing. Up until the mid 2000’s almost all pilots employed by the airlines in Australia came through GA, military of from other airlines. Cadetships never have and never will have a monopoly on people that are quick learners. This industry is full of them from all walks of life.
MrSheffield
That's a pretty rich comment from someone that paid for their endorsement to get into Tiger.
You are making the assumption a DEFO or DESO doesn’t go through a thorough airline selection process which is commensurate with their experience. Both selection processes have their flaws which are easily measured in failure rates during initial and ongoing training/checking.
With the exception of the QF cadet scheme, cadetships in this part of the world are a very new thing. Up until the mid 2000’s almost all pilots employed by the airlines in Australia came through GA, military of from other airlines. Cadetships never have and never will have a monopoly on people that are quick learners. This industry is full of them from all walks of life.
MrSheffield
Go for it kids, leave GA to those who can't get into the airlines. And don't listen to guys rant about lowering conditions. THey had their opportunity to join full service airlines but failed.
Last edited by 404 Titan; 3rd Jun 2010 at 09:40.
..........as has been said before, aviation these days as far as a career path goes is a very different beast.
Is it a good thing that you can go from street to a "bus" in one step? I don't know maybe maybe not but only time will tell I guess.
For those of us that have done it the hard way via GA (with all the hard luck stories along the way) will have one thing over the newbies who will inherit the Earth & that's experience, experience gained from hard knocks with many a tale to tell the grand kiddies whilst sitting on that veranda in that rocking chair with a smirk y quiet smile on our faces knowing that WE (all older pilots) paved the way for what will ultimately be the future, flying, just another way to earn a buck with no romance or heart & soul feeling earned & no stories to tell...............how sad
!
Still if I where young again then I guess I would be right in there also doing it the 'new' way as I would know no different. I wish the newbies/cadets all the best as when you think about it guys/gals they will be flying us around as we pax it well after retirement
Wmk2
Is it a good thing that you can go from street to a "bus" in one step? I don't know maybe maybe not but only time will tell I guess.
For those of us that have done it the hard way via GA (with all the hard luck stories along the way) will have one thing over the newbies who will inherit the Earth & that's experience, experience gained from hard knocks with many a tale to tell the grand kiddies whilst sitting on that veranda in that rocking chair with a smirk y quiet smile on our faces knowing that WE (all older pilots) paved the way for what will ultimately be the future, flying, just another way to earn a buck with no romance or heart & soul feeling earned & no stories to tell...............how sad
!Still if I where young again then I guess I would be right in there also doing it the 'new' way as I would know no different. I wish the newbies/cadets all the best as when you think about it guys/gals they will be flying us around as we pax it well after retirement
Wmk2
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Daghdaghistan
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cypher,
It is a little egotistical comparing yourself to a doctor isnt it??? Back down to earth please! A smart uniform does not put someone on the same tier as a medical professional.
GB
It is a little egotistical comparing yourself to a doctor isnt it??? Back down to earth please! A smart uniform does not put someone on the same tier as a medical professional.
GB
Good attempt at a windup though....
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tropical Australia
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there a difference between a cadet who joins the RAAF (say) and learns to fly from scratch and ends up flying shiny jets and one who joins a civilian cadet scheme and learns to fly from scratch and ends up flying different shiny jets?
They start out learning "straight and level" in piddling single piston engine two seaters, move onto something more advanced, get experience with more sophisticated instruments, procedures and aircraft and eventually end up flying their respective shiny jets. They are both qualified and capable. Neither have necessarily done any GA flying by the time they graduate.
Does that mean they aren't as good a pilot as someone who has gone the GA route?
Does it matter so much who pays for the training or how much it costs?
If someone thinks that paying for a cadetship is better value than the traditional GA route is better value; so what?
They start out learning "straight and level" in piddling single piston engine two seaters, move onto something more advanced, get experience with more sophisticated instruments, procedures and aircraft and eventually end up flying their respective shiny jets. They are both qualified and capable. Neither have necessarily done any GA flying by the time they graduate.
Does that mean they aren't as good a pilot as someone who has gone the GA route?
Does it matter so much who pays for the training or how much it costs?
If someone thinks that paying for a cadetship is better value than the traditional GA route is better value; so what?
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where as a GA pilot you can have a vague idea about what regs are applicable and look them up if required, as an Airline Pilot you need to know it period.
THey had their opportunity to join full service airlines but failed.
Are you sure that you're credible? I had assumed everything posted on the interwebs was factual and credible.
"Fly" and "Flying" as an action are registered trademarks of General Aviation.
Cirronimbus
The real issue here for most isn’t who pays for cadet schemes or who the better pilot is. I’ve flown with enough of both to know they are both good given the right training. The real issue here appears to be the fact that Jetstar have only created this cadet scheme to drive CoS even lower.
The real issue here for most isn’t who pays for cadet schemes or who the better pilot is. I’ve flown with enough of both to know they are both good given the right training. The real issue here appears to be the fact that Jetstar have only created this cadet scheme to drive CoS even lower.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How long until they offer "hour" packages. Some European airlines offer 300 and 500 hr packages of line flying. You pay to fly their aircraft.
ie:
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
The race to the bottom continues.
ie:
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
The race to the bottom continues.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone other than a shareholder defend the above.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld
Age: 48
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so I'm assuming there's a major barrier in trying to move within companies within the Qantas group right? Different EBA's and all that - didn't they come to an agreement a few months back which relaxed this in some way? (I'm trying to look at the positives here - I think there's more than enough negativity floating around)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cadetships will only take the brightest people who have the aptitude to learn quickly. These cadets will learn and absorb experience over a lot less time than their GA counterparts did, and at the end will come out just as competent at their jobs.
But there are some northern Asia cadets that are anything but competent at the job. Culture plays a large part in determining pilot competency and I don't mean just the ability to do a smooth landing on autopilot and two hands on the wheel..
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
404 Titan
I'm quite sure that DESO and DEFO guys undergo stringent selection procedures as well, and are too removed from duty if they fail to perform. I also agree that both recruitment schemes have their respective benefits and flaws.
I was trying to suggest that the profile for a cadet pilot and a Direct Entry pilot are totally different, but that does not necessarily mean that one had an advantage over the other, which is what was suggested by another member of this forum. Successful cadets will have done in 100 weeks, what GA drivers will have taken twice that long to do... but in the end they are both just as capable of doing the same job. Again, I say this with all due respect to GA pilots.
Good luck to everyone applying for this program.
I was trying to suggest that the profile for a cadet pilot and a Direct Entry pilot are totally different, but that does not necessarily mean that one had an advantage over the other, which is what was suggested by another member of this forum. Successful cadets will have done in 100 weeks, what GA drivers will have taken twice that long to do... but in the end they are both just as capable of doing the same job. Again, I say this with all due respect to GA pilots.
Good luck to everyone applying for this program.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tee Emm
Culture plays a large part in determining pilot competency and I don't mean just the ability to do a smooth landing on autopilot and two hands on the wheel..
So in the terms of those Asian airlines, you could blame the company culture for poor competency, and not the lack of hours in the logbook of a new cadet-entry F/O.