Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!
after all, 85K outlay for something like 40K pa return (at least for the first several years) plus crappy basing / rosters, etc is not really a good investment considering the options available...
When I started it was $30-$50k and your first few years were around $10-$20k income in GA, very little progression to anything airline or twin charter for that matter. And as far as basings are you saying that being able to stay in a city (on poor wages) vs having to move outback to fly a 210 etc for 3 years sweeping and cleaning (still on poor wages) is a step backwards. I think the rich kids may be more inclined towards todays offer than the past career path.
I agree totally with the Air Force vs Civil argument at present. Some Asian airlines run their cadet programs much the same with a strict progress requirement, but these airlines pay for the training.
Not long ago I met a check and training captain on a 737 who rose to the position after 10years starting as a cadet with 250 hours.
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but wait, there's more!! you have to pay $18k upfront which is reimbursed up to 75% over 5 years in 25% lots. This is not the endo cost for which there is a standard 3 year bond. However, and I quote "QantasLink has an agreement with Qantas Airlines for progression into "Qantas mainline". As a guide, under this agreement pilots are required to be employed for a minimum period of 2 years with QantasLink prior to applying for a position on a heavy jet within Qantas Airlines."
I guess thats the carrot.
In regards to this:
"2) A junior F/O will not earn a standard F/O's salary until they qualify for an A.T.P.L. not a frozen A.T.P.L. but a full A.T.P.L. (including command time) If you do not meet the command requirements of CAR 5.172 then the company will allow you to gain the necessary requirements at their discretion."
Doesn't Jetstar offer an ICUS program or something?
I guess thats the carrot.
In regards to this:
"2) A junior F/O will not earn a standard F/O's salary until they qualify for an A.T.P.L. not a frozen A.T.P.L. but a full A.T.P.L. (including command time) If you do not meet the command requirements of CAR 5.172 then the company will allow you to gain the necessary requirements at their discretion."
Doesn't Jetstar offer an ICUS program or something?
Meanwhile in the USA (who are the world's best practice in everything aviation apparently) they are trying to legislate minimum of 1500 hours total for an FO in RPT and effectively killing zero to hero programs, which are coming under some scrutiny in the USA.
There is no comparison between a cadet program and the airforce so lets just drop that idea. The Air Force only recruit a handful of people a year so are able to have a very very high standard.
There is no comparison between a cadet program and the airforce so lets just drop that idea. The Air Force only recruit a handful of people a year so are able to have a very very high standard.
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wowee... to much info to absorb!! from reading this forums i can see that the general gist is go for these cadetships because this is way of getting an airline pilot job nowadays.... but now there are more options than this time a week ago... so qlink( i cant find any info about this re-opening on the website..), REX, cathay or Jetstar??! Or the airforce??
They all have thier draw backs but which one is the best, in terms of career progression? I find the thought i living in hk in a tiny apartment without housing allowance intimidating but thats part of the fun i guess!
So honestly which one if you were 21, just out a uni and only have a GFPT, would you go for???
They all have thier draw backs but which one is the best, in terms of career progression? I find the thought i living in hk in a tiny apartment without housing allowance intimidating but thats part of the fun i guess!
So honestly which one if you were 21, just out a uni and only have a GFPT, would you go for???
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nt.pilot...try here --> QantasLink Recruitment: Attention
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This is all about Lose Cannon(BB) taking advantage, once again of Australian Pilots.
The Cadet scheme has nothing to do with helping young pilots get a job.
But alll about Jetstar making money out of the least able of us to bargain a fare deal.
Jetstar will make money out of the training cost and then pay these guy $57000 a year, before tax, before salary sacrificing training cost. Maybe take home $40000 a year before tax, guessing.
$30,000 less then a direct entry FO.
Only Jetstar wins.
The Cadet scheme has nothing to do with helping young pilots get a job.
But alll about Jetstar making money out of the least able of us to bargain a fare deal.
Jetstar will make money out of the training cost and then pay these guy $57000 a year, before tax, before salary sacrificing training cost. Maybe take home $40000 a year before tax, guessing.
$30,000 less then a direct entry FO.
Only Jetstar wins.
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Unfortunately, from what I have observed, the selection process for airline cadet programmes tends to be based heavily on how strong the bank account is that is funding the training...
A quick look at any of the flying school car parks will reinforce this.
The thing I find interesting, though, is that the rise of these schemes may cause airline flying (in the flavour of QF / VB / J*) to no longer be the "pinnacle" of civilian flying, rather it may become a separate and independant discipline that is normally entered at the very start of the career.
How many other pilots in the top end of GA now see "airlines" as a step sideways (or down ignoring the meagre pay rise)?
However, and I quote "QantasLink has an agreement with Qantas Airlines for progression into "Qantas mainline". As a guide, under this agreement pilots are required to be employed for a minimum period of 2 years with QantasLink prior to applying for a position on a heavy jet within Qantas Airlines."
How many people have actually successfully done this? Everyone I know who was in Qlink gave up and went to VB.
REX, cathay or Jetstar??! Or the airforce??
So honestly which one if you were 21, just out a uni and only have a GFPT, would you go for???
Well if the whole point is to avoid GA forget Rex; you're probably (not 100%) too old for airforce and face it, you're locked in for 13 years thats not what you want if you want a airline gig. Jetstar cadet program? Well if I said to you could have a job flying a Jet for free; however, you wont get paid for 5-8 years, oh and you're not allowed to earn an alternative living, would you reconsider the offer?
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I dont want to avoid GA, I am happy to do that too. I was just basing that on the fact that 8 years from now a large percentage of F/O's would most likely be from these cadetships... so I thought not going for a cadetship at this stage would put me behind the others who did go for a cadet program... 
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nt.pilot, these cadet schemes are designed to make you an indentured serf. Find some other way to make it to the shiny jet, but don't get sucked into their "fly now pay forever" deal. You will live to regret it.
I think you'll find that there is a "loose" interpretation of the seniority list at many operation's for promotion.
I think you'll find that there is a "loose" interpretation of the seniority list at many operation's for promotion.
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If you were a normal young person without money then you would not go for this because you cant afford it, get a job pay for your flying lessons and go for it!
Pretty Simple really!
Pretty Simple really!
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Looks like the Media have seen how quickly this thread as spread, the Jetstar Cadet scheme is on Channel 7 news.
NT.pilot you may be the only person we save.
If you do choose not to take up the Jetstar scheme dont think for a second you've missed out. You haven’t, you will still get there but gain so much more along the way; you don’t need it but you will never regret it. If you do that's you're choice but don’t ever come on here and complain about conditions.
Despite what my earlier sentiments may infer, I have no problems with cadet schemes that bear the burden of training costs. If you could get into the CX course and all you want to ever do is fly a jet; you'd be mad not to take it, whatever the downfalls.
To the tw@t on the news, not "everyone" wants to fly jets, if I wanted to go A-B-A all day long I’d drive a train.
NT.pilot you may be the only person we save.
If you do choose not to take up the Jetstar scheme dont think for a second you've missed out. You haven’t, you will still get there but gain so much more along the way; you don’t need it but you will never regret it. If you do that's you're choice but don’t ever come on here and complain about conditions.
Despite what my earlier sentiments may infer, I have no problems with cadet schemes that bear the burden of training costs. If you could get into the CX course and all you want to ever do is fly a jet; you'd be mad not to take it, whatever the downfalls.
To the tw@t on the news, not "everyone" wants to fly jets, if I wanted to go A-B-A all day long I’d drive a train.
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The concept of cadets flying airliners is fine in concept - the military have been taking kids off the street, training them and then sending them out in fighter airplanes with only a few hundred hours for years.
Unfortunately, from what I have observed, the selection process for airline cadet programmes tends to be based heavily on how strong the bank account is that is funding the training...
Unfortunately, from what I have observed, the selection process for airline cadet programmes tends to be based heavily on how strong the bank account is that is funding the training...
At what point are the Cadets employed by Jetstar, after gaining all their qualifications & experience?
If they were employed first up, then whilst employed completed all their training & endorsements. I would understand the cost of the training being legitimately salary sacrificed (tax deductable).
If they are employed after attaining all their qualifications & experience, then the job offer & acceptance would be on condition that the qualifications & experience was a pre-requisite prior to employment. Including all that ab initio training. So how could that be tax deductable?
It would be comparable to someone training privately to attain all their qualifications & experience, then once employed in GA salary sacrificing or claiming as a tax deduction all the cost of their training.
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 5th Jun 2010 at 11:56.
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Is my family safe flying jetstar with a 200hr cadet FO in busy class E airspace ?
Very interesting reading.
Quite comparative to the railways where I work at the moment.
Some train drivers spent 5-7 years getting treated like crap and being the bitch and sitting in the observers seat before they were allowed to touch the controls and nowadays you can walk in off the street and be taught how to do the job with no or little experience and sit in the drivers seat straight away and at my particular company be in charge of 30,000 tons behind you within 6-10 months. Of course this instantly gets these guys backs up and they don't see the positives but see all the negatives. However the business loves it because they can bring these people in on lower salaries and lower training giving the company the ideally molded employee.
Some very good arguments for and against why the cadetship is good and why it's bad. But I think it's to lower the conditions and it also allows the company to mould the employee they want. There's got to be something in it for Jetstar, it wouldn't make business sense not to have some sort of economical gain.
I do think it's great if you have the money and the time......but how you are going to pay 80k when your on a 60 what ever week course? and afford to live....seems pretty impossible to me, unless mummy and daddy are paying for it or you have a great bank manager who will let you get away with not paying the loan back for a year.
Personally I am in the process of building a house and I intend on borrowing against that and going for my CPL whilst I'm earning several figures then hopefully I'm able to go Fly in fly out and work 2 weeks up north and work 2 weeks flying for someone earning bugger all and pay for my life by working 2 weeks driving trains up north. Then eventually get into an Airline and take what is looking up to being a massive pay cut but I guess the things you do to follow your dream.
Quite comparative to the railways where I work at the moment.
Some train drivers spent 5-7 years getting treated like crap and being the bitch and sitting in the observers seat before they were allowed to touch the controls and nowadays you can walk in off the street and be taught how to do the job with no or little experience and sit in the drivers seat straight away and at my particular company be in charge of 30,000 tons behind you within 6-10 months. Of course this instantly gets these guys backs up and they don't see the positives but see all the negatives. However the business loves it because they can bring these people in on lower salaries and lower training giving the company the ideally molded employee.
Some very good arguments for and against why the cadetship is good and why it's bad. But I think it's to lower the conditions and it also allows the company to mould the employee they want. There's got to be something in it for Jetstar, it wouldn't make business sense not to have some sort of economical gain.
I do think it's great if you have the money and the time......but how you are going to pay 80k when your on a 60 what ever week course? and afford to live....seems pretty impossible to me, unless mummy and daddy are paying for it or you have a great bank manager who will let you get away with not paying the loan back for a year.
Personally I am in the process of building a house and I intend on borrowing against that and going for my CPL whilst I'm earning several figures then hopefully I'm able to go Fly in fly out and work 2 weeks up north and work 2 weeks flying for someone earning bugger all and pay for my life by working 2 weeks driving trains up north. Then eventually get into an Airline and take what is looking up to being a massive pay cut but I guess the things you do to follow your dream.
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However the business loves it because they can bring these people in on lower salaries and lower training giving the company the ideally molded employee.
Somethings gotta give sooner or later.