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1,750 jobs to go at Qantas

Old 14th Apr 2009, 13:56
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ElPerro said
You do not understand.
I didn't say that, that was Obie's paraphrase.
I didnt say you did! I'll edit it a little just to make it clear for those who are a little slow.
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 14:11
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ok.. you ask a question... I reply.. you go back and edit your question before my answer and then claim I didn't respond to your question???

What's you actual question? You disagree with a quote of Obie and attribute that to me? What is your question?

Do I think the Engineer's EBA was bad? Yes. Now what's your point?
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 14:16
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Question is, (and a few more), who are the young guys that are going to lose their jobs? Have you listened to what Alan Joyce said? Are you a manager in the firing line?
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 14:52
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It really is quite grim

Qantas profit diving

Article from: </IMG>Geoff Easdown
April 15, 2009 12:00am

THE fortunes of national carrier Qantas have crashed, with pre-tax profit expected to fall by more than $1 billion this financial year.
The airline, hurting because of a slump in business and first class ticket sales, will cut 1750 jobs, mothball 10 of its aircraft and defer the delivery of new jetliners, including four Airbus A380 super jumbos.
Chief executive Alan Joyce revealed the airline would record a loss in the half-year to June 30 - only the second time this has happened since the company was privatised in 1993.
The last loss, in 2003, occurred after the SARS epidemic devastated bookings.
Yesterday's shock downgrade, from a previously forecast pre-tax profit of $500 million to something between $100 million and $200 million at June 30, contrasts markedly with the $1.4 billion record profit announced last August.
The news saw Qantas shares dive almost 10 per cent but then recover to close 4 higher at $2.
"We have no choice but to lower our profit forecast and make major changes to ensure Qantas can weather the current commercial environment," Mr Joyce told reporters.
"This means moving immediately to reduce capacity in those areas of our business facing the greatest impact of market deterioration."
Mr Joyce admitted that Qantas was losing money on Pacific flights to the United States which not long ago generated 15 per cent of the carrier's total profit.
The airline also was "struggling" to stay profitable on flights between Australia and London, he said.
Mr Joyce blames corporate belt-tightening for the slump, noting that high-yield long haul business traffic is down 15 per cent on last year.
At the same time rival carriers have added capacity, undermining profit.
Seat capacity had grown 30 per cent across the Pacific and there is significant discounting by all carriers operating the route, he said.
"We have also seen international capacity in and out of Australia growing by 11 per cent.
"There has been extensive discounting by Singapore Airlines, Emirates, right across the board."
Domestic business travel is in similar decline, Mr Joyce said at yesterday's briefing.

The remedial measures Mr Joyce has ordered will see 1750 jobs disappear, with 500 managers and 1250 staff forced to relocate, take long-service and unpaid leave or "as a last resort" be declared redundant.

Qantas will also defer new aircraft deliveries, including four of the 16 A380 super jumbos ordered from Airbus.

Agreement also had been reached to push back the delivery of 12 Boeing 737-800 airliners which were to be used on Qantas domestic flights.

Qantas offshoot Jetstar will also be unlikely to get its 15 new generation 787-8s Dreamliners by the planned date of May 2010 with Qantas pressing Boeing to delay their arrival.

Mr Joyce declared that Qantas still remained one of the strongest airline groups in the world despite what had been "a rapid and significant deterioration in trading conditions" brought about by the global economic downturn.

"The aviation industry at the moment is suffering dramatically because of the financial crisis," he told reporters.

"We are today making the corrective action that Qantas has also done in the past to make sure its long-term success and viability is assured.

"We have gone through SARS, September 11 and we have managed a lot of crises," Mr Joyce said.

"We are one of the longest operating airlines in the world, and the reason why we continue to survive and grow is because we act fast, we act decisively and that's what we are doing today."

While Qantas is struggling, it continues to fare better than its long-haul rivals, British Airways, Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines

British Airways says it is burning pounds pound stg. 2.7 million ($A6.01 million) cash a day because of falling sales. Cathay warned its 14,000 staff last month that it faced very difficult decisions about its network and the company.
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 16:40
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'lizzypussy' your post is nothing if not amusing. Maybe you should smell what your shovelling!
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 17:05
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Please explain to us how it was the engineers not doing overtime (trying to have a life and by chance highlighting the overwhelming lack of manpower) that has brought the mighty flying kangaroo to its' knees.

You will disagree that the idiotic management culture that is promoted may be their undoing.

$150 million (or more) wasted by buggary!!!
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 17:21
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Wonder how long time it takes before KLM doing the same thing
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 20:18
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There is some serious trolling going on here.

El Perro:

The fact remains that you did what you thought was right. That's fine, but don't tell me that in hindsight what you did was in the interests of everyone. It wasn't. Least of all in the interests of the company trying it's best to keep you in employment.
That is a simple bullsh1t statement as any reading of Pprune will confirm, the company has not done one single thing in the interests of its staff for at least Eight years, least of all "trying its best to keep you in employment", despite multiple pleas on multiple occasions to stop wasteful and stupid management practices that hurt everyone.

Qantas has been run by a narcissistic management team for the last Eight or so years.

The meaning of that statement is that NO, NIL, NADA, ZIP attention was paid to any stakeholders at all, that includes staff (who have been all been abused), Customers (who have received a Sh1t sandwich as far as product is concerned) and shareholders (remember the APA bid?).

The reason for this is that as far as management is concerned QANTAS IS ALL ABOUT THEM. That is why they pay themselves bonuses. That is why the number of managers has increased, narcissists don't want to talk to the hoi polloi, they want to talk to other managers.

As better people than I have said watch what they do, not what they say. Joyce has announced that 500 managers will go and around 1200 staff.

Now lets watch and report on how this is executed. Is it going to be done fairly, equitably, relatively quickly and cleanly with lots of consultation, reporting back to the staff, VR, LSL, LWOP with forced redundancy only a distant option?

Is it instead going to be drawn out over the rest of this year in a process that is unfair, slow, capricious and surrounded by endless rumour so that no one can consider for a minute whether their job is safe or not?

Will the "500 managers" be quickly and cleanly axed in a simple quick process, or again in a process surrounded by rumour, deceit and uncertainty, all guaranteed to maximise the pain of those under threat. Narcissists in senior management just love to deal out pain to their juniors, it makes them feel good. It is a power trip; "Am I going to keep you working for me?", "What have you done for me today?", "If you were me, would you keep yourself working for me?", "How would you restructure this management team if you were me?". This is the sort of sh1t I've heard, watched and had dealt out to me before.

Watch how Joyce does this exercise. If it is a slow and dirty power trip something like I've described, then start making long term plans to get out of Qantas now, because Qantas is not going to survive another Eight years of being managed by Dixon style narcissist clones.
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 22:21
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Spot on Sunfish.

The self annointed greatest CEO in the world left a stinking pile and parachuted out with millions.

Joyce TALKS a better game, but his actions indicate more of the same from Dixon lite.
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 23:39
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My hope, troll doll, is that no one wants anyone to lose their job, no matter how long or short their time in the company.
It upsets me to hear people appear to wish for the demise of Qantas, as though we somehow 'deserve' it. Does anyone honestly want 34,000 people out of work? Will that make you feel better? Everyone in every company just wants to keep their job now.
As for the EBA dizzy lizzy, it is correct, and last on, first off is the policy. As the most recently employed ARE very efficient, there is incentive for the company to AVOID any FA redundancies.
I did have a laugh at the 10 yr old beehive comment! I often have people ask how I deal with 'senior' crew. When I say how long Ive been here, they say, ' oh you still seem so keen and enthusiastic!. '
There are people who have been here a short time who have bad attitudes and those who have been here a long time who also have bad attitudes. The same applies for those who are amazing.
I just hope, despite any sniping, that as many jobs as possible are kept.
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 23:45
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If demand wasn't slowing before, it will now. I and my family already refuse to fly Jetstar. Even my last few Govt funded flights were with Virgin.
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Old 14th Apr 2009, 23:54
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There is not an airline employee alive that is not thinking "where will I be this time next year".

Just a bit of advice for those that are offering the EBA as their defence to being told your not wanted.
Management will do anything to fix their problems and set themselves up for a bigger bonus when the boom times arrive again.

As a VB employee we had an EBA that we thought was bullit proof in that it specifically said-

"Should the need for redundancy arise, it shall be implemented on a last -on-first-off basis if no other agreement can be reached between the parties"

That unfortunately was not enough to protect mid ranking 737 First Officers who were at more risk than Embraer FO that had still yet to start their training.


So if your EBA does have a LOFO policy you will have to fight for it.

Good luck.
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 00:10
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I couldn't find any mention of voluntary redundancies in the Garden Gnome's statements.

I'm sure there are older employees willing to listen to an offer.
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 00:27
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Cabin Services:Essential Personnel

The girls behind the service desk on QCC1 run the whole show.You could remove everyone else and no one would notice.Take the Service Desk girls away and the joint would fall apart.
Ever want to find someone in CC management?
Just visit one of the local coffee shops and you will find them "having a meeting"
Every department is run the same way.
There are those that do all the work and receive little recognition.There are those that do nothing claim all the credit and get paid a motsa.There are about 10 such individuals in Cabin Services.
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 00:54
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Originally Posted by lizzydizzy
If you are one of those old dears out there that think the new QD or QCCA crew will get the chop over you due to the "last on first off" rule in your EBA, you a very sadly mistaken.

Why would Qantas make redundant the $36K base "on the cheap" crew, when they can get rid of the 10 yr old beehive on $85K.

Besides why would Qantas pay to train these 'dizzylizzies" in the past 12-24 months just to give them the chop.
First of all, enough with the sarcasm. I've been a hostie for over 15 years and I don't want to see anyone go, new or old. Secondly, if you are going to post then post factually and without the intent to mislead the readers. If you want to compare base wages between QAL and QCCA, then it is more like $48,000 (QAL) and $36,000 (QCCA). Your allowances and extras top up that base to give you a very healthy pay still, although obviously, and unfortunately, less than QAL crew. By implying that QCCA crew only earn $36,000 and QAL crew earn $85,000, you are being dishonest.

And it doesn't matter what Qantas would "like". Of course they would rather get rid of QALs if there were no cost involved, but both you and I have signed an EBA which ensures the "last on first off" policy. I truly hope it doesn't come to that, though. As mentioned earlier, though, it costs a lot more to lay off QAL crew in the short-term.

Regarding the ALAEA industrial action last year, I knew it cost the company a lot but WOW! $150,000,000! And to think it could have cost a lot more if you guys didn't back down. To be honest, I'm still a little pissed off that you did back down and didn't stick to your guns for what was at the time a fair and reasonable pay increase of 5%. You only got 3% with some other little fancy bits. But what you set out for was a 5% increase to your base pay. Imagine how much it wouldn't have cost if QF had just given you a fair pay rise straight up.

Just like before, I hold Geoff ******** and the QF management responsible for that fight and the subsequent financial loss. It was years of "take take take" from their employees that caused that, taking from us while giving themselves massive pay increases and bonuses and patting each other on the back telling each other what a great job THEY were doing! Not you or I, no! "We've done a lot more than any bloody union", said Geoff (or something like that).

It'll be interesting to see if Alan Joyce can get some staff support now that he is going to need it. I think many of us have learnt our lesson the last time we helped out by taking a wage freeze for 18 months; that, on top of 10 years of minimal, below-inflation pay rises.

I'm just sayin'.

PS: ElPerro, you are what is wrong with this country these days. You think you are smarter than the average bloke with a more "big picture" view of the world. Your greedy, capitalistic, corporate philosophies and ideas repulse me. Don't even bother commenting on this, because nothing you can say will change my opinion of people like you. You are here just to stir up trouble.
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 00:58
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Couldnt agree more with the sentiment of Butterfield about the girls on the service desk.

they do a valuable and useful job and i for one need them more than any of the visitors that i have never needed the "assistance'' of in lasting memory.

I certainly hope that the job cuts reflect the need for "operational" staff like BOS and Service desk to be retained
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 01:10
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I agree totally with you Butterfield, they girls behind the service desk are the backbone of what goes on at QCC1. They are always friendly, helpful and supportive.

It's a shame that they restructured a few years ago, and had to reapply for their positions at less pay, only a couple decided to stay.

I also find the Bos desk helpful, as they are also Flight Attendants there's a good chance that you've worked with them before and they empathize with your situations are also are very supportive.

The others that you mentioned, the ones in the coffee shop "having a meeting", all I want to say is " live by the sword, die by the sword".
If they get the axe, they will not be missed, and morale will be instantly boosted.
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 01:12
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Well there will be plenty of time for coffee for some coming up very soon

Not that i want to see anyone lose their jobs at all but there are some more than others :P
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Old 15th Apr 2009, 01:25
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Qantas to slash jobs and flights as turbulence hits |

"...likely to include flight attendants, pilots, customer service staff, ground crew and baggage handlers."

Qantas to slash jobs and flights as turbulence hits
  • Ben Schneiders
  • April 15, 2009
QANTAS will urge staff to take unpaid leave and job-share, and is considering asking unions for a wage freeze, as nearly 10 per cent of its workforce, or more than 3000 jobs, are cut in less than a year.

A decision to cut up to 1750 jobs over the next few months, announced yesterday, comes on top of 1500 positions shed since July.

The latest move by Qantas comes in response to a rapidly deteriorating economy, falling demand from business and international customers and aggressive fare discounts across the industry.

The Qantas cuts coincided with another serious jobs blow for Ballarat, with Lihir Gold announcing it would cut 200 positions from its local gold mining operation.

Qantas said a large portion of employees to go this time would be "front-line staff"
likely to include flight attendants, pilots, customer service staff, ground crew and baggage handlers.

The airline will also cut flights on busy routes, including Melbourne to Sydney, ground aircraft, defer the purchase of 16 new ones, including four giant Airbus A380s, and seek to sell up to 10 of its existing fleet. International flights will also be cut, including to London, Hong Kong and Los Angeles.

Chief executive Alan Joyce would not provide details of how many flights would be chopped or where job losses would occur, but said the job cuts would mostly be in Australia. About 500 management positions across the airline will go and up to 1250 other staff.

He said he would ask staff to take unpaid leave, consider part-time work and job-sharing and take annual leave in a bid to lessen job losses. When asked if he would push unions for a wage freeze, Mr Joyce said management wages had already been frozen and the airline would discuss "every potential measure" .

ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said the question of wages was complicated by the number of agreements unions had with the airline. "It's not on the table from our point of view. It's not something that could practically happen in any event," he said.
"What we need is serious negotiations with Qantas about preserving jobs. I understand Qantas is affected by the global financial crisis but Qantas need to make sure they keep as many jobs as possible, keep a skills base so when conditions do turn up they can take advantage of that."

The Federal Government had little warning of yesterday's move. A Qantas spokesman called the office of Workplace Relations Minister Julia Gillard in the morning to say there would be an announcement but did not give details.
Ms Gillard said that after last week's news of a big jump in unemployment, "this is another difficult day".

She said Qantas had made it clear that its decision "is largely in response to a rapid deterioration in its international business". This was not just Australians not travelling as much, but people overseas not travelling as much as before. "It stands to reason that a global recession is going to hit international travel particularly, as people around the world find themselves less able to finance travel," she said.

Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull said the Qantas announcement was a reminder that "the three top priorities in Australia are jobs, jobs, jobs". "There are hundreds of Australians who are going to be out of work as a result of this decision," he said.

Mr Joyce said the job losses were necessary because Qantas was to cut its flying capacity by a further 5 per cent, and less capacity necessitated fewer "operational staff". Mr Joyce, who replaced long-term Qantas head Geoff Dixon last year, said profit before tax would fall from about $500 million to as little as $100 million this financial year. But he said Qantas was still one of the strongest airlines in the world.
Mr Joyce said there had been significant discounting in the industry, particularly on international routes where the number of flights was rising.

Ms Gillard said it was pleasing that for 1250 non-managerial jobs, Qantas planned to "explore all options, with redundancies as a last resort".

"The most important thing in the difficult period following the global financial crisis and in the midst of the global recession is for employers to do all they can to retain staff," she said.

Ms Gillard said that for Qantas workers made redundant "the Government will be there with an offer of intensive employment services and access to training, to do everything we can to help them to maximise their chance of getting another job."

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Old 15th Apr 2009, 01:34
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Having only just viewed the 7.30 Report interview with Alan Joyce (podcast) I can't see that he blamed the current position on any group. He did say that industrial action last year hurt the group. That's not the same as saying it's their fault.
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