Our Airline...What are they upto?
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OBIE
I think if you back through my posts OBIE, you will find that they are mostly correct, certainly more so than your mate feenix's.
Feenix, you will note has not commented on Strategic's move into bed with IE. This is probably because he knows he cant make a response without proving all of my statements correct.
Skystar320 is a Uni student doing some sort of aviation management degree. He has very little idea about most things he discusses. When he compared a 320 to a 170, it just goes to prove that he has no idea. When he compares Strategic with SAW, it reinforces my point.
These unviable airlines will simply go away. And with the arrival of Strategic, the process will be expediated.
Two flights a week to Nauru, with the obligatory fuel stop in HON, spells disaster. IE, ON, PB, talk about route saturation. The Norfolk graveyard will claim another victim. I predicted October, it might be sooner.
ON sits on the ground as we speak, waiting for spares. Have they paid their bills?
Obie, wake up to yourself mate.
Feenix, you will note has not commented on Strategic's move into bed with IE. This is probably because he knows he cant make a response without proving all of my statements correct.
Skystar320 is a Uni student doing some sort of aviation management degree. He has very little idea about most things he discusses. When he compared a 320 to a 170, it just goes to prove that he has no idea. When he compares Strategic with SAW, it reinforces my point.
These unviable airlines will simply go away. And with the arrival of Strategic, the process will be expediated.
Two flights a week to Nauru, with the obligatory fuel stop in HON, spells disaster. IE, ON, PB, talk about route saturation. The Norfolk graveyard will claim another victim. I predicted October, it might be sooner.
ON sits on the ground as we speak, waiting for spares. Have they paid their bills?
Obie, wake up to yourself mate.
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Skystar 320
How can you even begin to compare a E170 regional jet to an A320 on an almost 3 hour leg with an alternate well in excess of an hour away.
Not even mentioning capacity.
Curious to say the least to hear the reasoning on that comment.
If an EMB-170 didnt work, what makes you think an A320 will work
Not even mentioning capacity.
Curious to say the least to hear the reasoning on that comment.
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ithinkso I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I aint no uni student. I have some very credible people that know me personally that would blow your mind out of your armchair expert position you currently sit in.
What I am saying is that the operations didnt work with the EMB-170 why would a A320 work? We all know what happened....
Its all fun and games operating an aircraft, but it also comes at a cost, that is money.
What I am saying is that the operations didnt work with the EMB-170 why would a A320 work? We all know what happened....
Its all fun and games operating an aircraft, but it also comes at a cost, that is money.
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Skystar you are correct to say the A320 won't work and I can see how you compare it to SAW in that it hasn't been thought out. If you can't fill the70 or so seats currently available why would you pay more than double the price to fly empty seats to HIR. The aircraft may be more suitable to handle alternate requirements but so is the B737.
Gnd power you are correct but capacity has to be mentioned because this is where this idea is flawed.
Obie it appears we are now best of friends even though I hadn't even heard of you until a few days ago. Amazing how the armchair experts know more about us then we know ourselves.I think soME people are just boobs who if they can't win an argument simply get personal and don't add any value to the thread, even the moderators can't control them so it is easier to ignore.
Sale and Coco I reckon you're both close to the mark.
Gnd power you are correct but capacity has to be mentioned because this is where this idea is flawed.
Obie it appears we are now best of friends even though I hadn't even heard of you until a few days ago. Amazing how the armchair experts know more about us then we know ourselves.I think soME people are just boobs who if they can't win an argument simply get personal and don't add any value to the thread, even the moderators can't control them so it is easier to ignore.
Sale and Coco I reckon you're both close to the mark.
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Feenix
For once you have shown a modicum of sense when you state the 737 is a better aircraft than the 170. This is strikingly obvious.
On the other hand, a 320 is a far better aircraft on the route than a 737-300. Greater capacity, GPS, lower minima, the ability to carry viable alternates, the list goes on.
As far as capacity goes, re my previous post, the route is completely saturated. Some operators will have to go. Pb shouldnt last long, strategic however will be there as long as IE wants them. OA has to pass by for fuel, but unfortunately thats all it will be for. A total loss.
As I said, see you in October.
On the other hand, a 320 is a far better aircraft on the route than a 737-300. Greater capacity, GPS, lower minima, the ability to carry viable alternates, the list goes on.
As far as capacity goes, re my previous post, the route is completely saturated. Some operators will have to go. Pb shouldnt last long, strategic however will be there as long as IE wants them. OA has to pass by for fuel, but unfortunately thats all it will be for. A total loss.
As I said, see you in October.
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Skystar and feenix
Sorry, but I don't see how the Strategic A320 can be compared to the SAW E170 operation.
The E170 was initially set up as SolAirs partner but that idea was doomed from the beginning as it did not have the capacity, range, baggage/cargo capability that was required.
As you know, SolAir and SAW went separate ways with SolAir using the OJ 732 and then the OA 733 three times a week.
SAW tried it alone (another doomed idea), and then had the problems of getting passengers in its own right.
But now, for whatever reason, SolAir is exchanging the services of OA with that provided by Strategic.
Now, I am not arguing the merits of the A320 against that of the 733 (or vice a versa), nor am I arguing the merits of using Strategic over Our Airline. I am saying that that the A320 will be more suited that the E170 ever was or ever could be on that route.
Maybe I have missed something here?
BTW, the Solomons certainly like change dont't they, in the space of 2 years or so they have had the Spanish, SAW, OJ, OA and are now off to Strategic.
Sorry, but I don't see how the Strategic A320 can be compared to the SAW E170 operation.
The E170 was initially set up as SolAirs partner but that idea was doomed from the beginning as it did not have the capacity, range, baggage/cargo capability that was required.
As you know, SolAir and SAW went separate ways with SolAir using the OJ 732 and then the OA 733 three times a week.
SAW tried it alone (another doomed idea), and then had the problems of getting passengers in its own right.
But now, for whatever reason, SolAir is exchanging the services of OA with that provided by Strategic.
Now, I am not arguing the merits of the A320 against that of the 733 (or vice a versa), nor am I arguing the merits of using Strategic over Our Airline. I am saying that that the A320 will be more suited that the E170 ever was or ever could be on that route.
Maybe I have missed something here?
BTW, the Solomons certainly like change dont't they, in the space of 2 years or so they have had the Spanish, SAW, OJ, OA and are now off to Strategic.
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Gnd Power, don't get me wrong the A320 is an excellent aircraft and way better than the EMB-170, which is to this day, grab bag expensive to run 70seater.
What I am trying to say is what you summed up on your last sentance.
What makes you think the A320 operation would work?
What I am trying to say is what you summed up on your last sentance.
BTW, the Solomons certainly like change dont't they, in the space of 2 years or so they have had the Spanish, SAW, OJ, OA and are now off to Strategic.
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It's a bit of a cliché to say that we learn more from our mistakes than our successes.
What experience and history teach is this -- that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles. Patriotism ruins history.
Airlines will come and go, but only the genuine players will stay.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
What experience and history teach is this -- that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles. Patriotism ruins history.
Airlines will come and go, but only the genuine players will stay.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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Gnd power what I am saying is if Solair is not filling the the allocated 70 plus seats on OA how are they to make a profit by paying more than twice the cost for more than double the seats most of which will probably be empty. The run is overserviced and now they are going to add an A320 load of seats into the market. Read what Sale and Coco have said to probably get closer to the mark. Both the B737 and the A320 are very suited to the route as far as operational considerations go but A320 has too many seats.Pacblue won't stop and OA is going there anyway on route to Nauru so they can both sell cheap seats at Solairs expense. Strategic will stay as long as Solair pays the bills and the past has shown that is very limited.
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Hey, I never said the Strategic plan would work, just that the A320 was a better aircraft for the route than the E170.
I agree with you when you state the 737 300 is a better costed choice than the A320 for the present capacity of 70 odd passengers and freight carried.
Bit like buying a BMW when really you can only afford the payments on a Hyundai. Someone ends up getting burnt.
Maybe Strategic has grater plans for that part of the Pacific?
I agree with you when you state the 737 300 is a better costed choice than the A320 for the present capacity of 70 odd passengers and freight carried.
Bit like buying a BMW when really you can only afford the payments on a Hyundai. Someone ends up getting burnt.
Maybe Strategic has grater plans for that part of the Pacific?
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I guess every one knows the truth but refuse to say it for what it really is.
Is it Nationalism? Is it Patriotism? Hell no!
Its about money in pockets and those in power are setting themselves and their tribe up. One-toks, bride price and just plain ole graft. Sad thing is that amongst the locals who matter, its an acceptable way of doing business. The motto is 'when its my turn, i do the same thing.'
The only way that SOLAIR will succeed is if there is some one with balls who really wants to do the right thing. The current players dont have a 'pair' between them.
It is far easier to take the 10% than to do something that the will benefit the nation.
Its okay, dont get too hung up, when a new minister comes in, a different deal will be made, and so it all goes on.
tarowong.
coco
Is it Nationalism? Is it Patriotism? Hell no!
Its about money in pockets and those in power are setting themselves and their tribe up. One-toks, bride price and just plain ole graft. Sad thing is that amongst the locals who matter, its an acceptable way of doing business. The motto is 'when its my turn, i do the same thing.'
The only way that SOLAIR will succeed is if there is some one with balls who really wants to do the right thing. The current players dont have a 'pair' between them.
It is far easier to take the 10% than to do something that the will benefit the nation.
Its okay, dont get too hung up, when a new minister comes in, a different deal will be made, and so it all goes on.
tarowong.
coco
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Coco you've hit the nail on the head.They can all talk about aircraft types and what is suitable for what but the new players just don't realise how the system works and it will be the old players who are familiar with the region and can adapt to change who will come out the other end. It has got nothing to do with money and might and more to do with local knowledge and contacts.
The way to survive is to be lean and mean , accept the good and the bad and just get on with surviving until the next opportunity arises.
The way to survive is to be lean and mean , accept the good and the bad and just get on with surviving until the next opportunity arises.
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accept the good and the bad and just get on with surviving until the next opportunity arises.
... and the "next opportunity" was understood and taken by Polynesian Airlines some years back and look at those results
.
All where in amazement at Polys' results at the last Pacific Region Airlines gathering back some time ago, but has any of them taken action?
... and the "next opportunity" was understood and taken by Polynesian Airlines some years back and look at those results
.All where in amazement at Polys' results at the last Pacific Region Airlines gathering back some time ago, but has any of them taken action?
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ithinkso
73 can carry viable alternates, it isnt as limited as other aircraft... Santo and INU for example. POM or is that a little too far?
Greater capacity for what? As has been said by others, there are so many players there at the moment with so many available seats, what is the purpose of providing more when all the current ones are unable to be filled?
Can fit a GPS to the 73.
What about the fact that all the equipment to handle a 73 is already in HIR, as opposed to the A320 more than likely requiring equipment to be taken there?
Not out to have a go, but you do seem very anti ON/737 !
On the other hand, a 320 is a far better aircraft on the route than a 737-300. Greater capacity, GPS, lower minima, the ability to carry viable alternates, the list goes on.
Greater capacity for what? As has been said by others, there are so many players there at the moment with so many available seats, what is the purpose of providing more when all the current ones are unable to be filled?
Can fit a GPS to the 73.
What about the fact that all the equipment to handle a 73 is already in HIR, as opposed to the A320 more than likely requiring equipment to be taken there?
Not out to have a go, but you do seem very anti ON/737 !
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I am currently doing some more work in the Solomon Islands and just wish to add a comment to the capacity/seats issue. In total I have spent 3 of the past 5 years working as a RAMSI Advisor to a number of Ministries and the problem now is the same as it was 5 years ago.
Yes - you may say the place is now over-serviced with the introduction of Pac Blue HOWEVER there is still no seat available when you need one. The majority of punters on this run are working here under RAMSI or some other bilateral/multilateral Aid program with a miniscule number of tourists. The days we need / want to fly are Thursday / Friday OUT Sunday / Monday IN. There are flights out Thursday and Friday, 1 in on Sunday then nothing until Tuesday. Unless we book 4 or more weeks in advance it is almost impossible to get a seat on the SolAir Friday and Sunday flights.
I have to go to Oz next weekend for a wedding, and as I had not expected to be in HNR, did not try to book a seat until Friday 8th May for Friday 22 May back 24 May. No such luck - I have to fly out Thursday and back Tuesday which is damned frustrating.
What I am trying to say here is echoed by many of us here - give us capacity WHEN WE WANT AND NEED IT - one aircraft with decent capacity on Friday and Sunday may well do it - or even two flights on those days and forget the Tuesday and Thursday garbage. At present all they do is carry the P!ssed off overflow from Friday and Sunday. And oh -a Monday flight would be great!!
Yes - you may say the place is now over-serviced with the introduction of Pac Blue HOWEVER there is still no seat available when you need one. The majority of punters on this run are working here under RAMSI or some other bilateral/multilateral Aid program with a miniscule number of tourists. The days we need / want to fly are Thursday / Friday OUT Sunday / Monday IN. There are flights out Thursday and Friday, 1 in on Sunday then nothing until Tuesday. Unless we book 4 or more weeks in advance it is almost impossible to get a seat on the SolAir Friday and Sunday flights.
I have to go to Oz next weekend for a wedding, and as I had not expected to be in HNR, did not try to book a seat until Friday 8th May for Friday 22 May back 24 May. No such luck - I have to fly out Thursday and back Tuesday which is damned frustrating.
What I am trying to say here is echoed by many of us here - give us capacity WHEN WE WANT AND NEED IT - one aircraft with decent capacity on Friday and Sunday may well do it - or even two flights on those days and forget the Tuesday and Thursday garbage. At present all they do is carry the P!ssed off overflow from Friday and Sunday. And oh -a Monday flight would be great!!
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Amelia something wrong somewhere as I have been on the flights mentioned and only once have I seen them 100% full. I have also counted the pax on the other flights and again plenty of empty seats. I would suspect more to do with the booking system but with online booking and changes afoot I think your problem will be short lived
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Hi Feenix - would love this to be a short lived problem - but to date it isn't. Just talk to the guys and gals in the RAMSI civilian logistics support roles and they will tell you it causes them constant heartache and has done for several years. Often we are waitlisted on these flights, and even when a "confirmed" seat is available there is a risk that you will be bumped.
Not sure when you have been on these flights, but as you may be aware the RAMSI civilian contingent is somewhat "seasonal" with the peak time for movement being between Feb and Nov. Of course normal peak times such as Easter, Christmas and School Holidays add extra loading, with lower loadings in the school holiday weeks etc however outside of these times we have this issue with a lack of seats available at the times requried.
I look forward to the changes you mention and anything else that may alleviate the issues.
Not sure when you have been on these flights, but as you may be aware the RAMSI civilian contingent is somewhat "seasonal" with the peak time for movement being between Feb and Nov. Of course normal peak times such as Easter, Christmas and School Holidays add extra loading, with lower loadings in the school holiday weeks etc however outside of these times we have this issue with a lack of seats available at the times requried.
I look forward to the changes you mention and anything else that may alleviate the issues.
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Mynameisis
Not at all anti737, in fact I'm very pro 737.
The only extra equipment required for the bus is a new set of stairs, easy and can be built on site.
However, when you compare an A320 to a 737 classic, there is really no comparison. The 737 classics are very limited into HON. A 737 classic at max zero fuel weight, can only carry enough fuel to reach a viable alternate from top of descent. and when I say viable alternate I mean Noumea, This has been discussed many times on previous threads. As far as SON being suitable, that only works if you plan to arrive there in daylight hours.(no-one to turn on the lights at night for you). ON does not have any arrangement in place for a responsible person to be there at night, no one does.
If you cant get in to HON you are not going to get into Vila. That's a fact. And as far as using Nauru as an alternate, you will be there for a while , because there is no fuel available there since the underground fuel tanks filled with water and contaminated themselves.
The airbus is a far superior aircraft in that respect, a new gen 737 is a different story and is a far superior aircraft to the airbus.
Amelia Flashart, where are you coming from....WOW, I mean, if you cant get a seat on the most saturated route in the south pacific, there's something wrong.
Ramsi, as you know, engages airlines to conduct charters for them when they need it on an ad hoc basis. If they dont have the numbers, they but tickets like everyone else.
I'm actually not anti ON either, its just for such an insignificant operation, they seem to have quite a large and well visited thread on here. They are great for a stir. This is only because they are fearful for their positions, and regardless of what they say, (feenix), they really have no idea what is going on, on the route. ON wont be with us much longer.
Just you all wait and see....(flak jacket on and tight)...
Feenix, uncharacteristically silent. Or rather, silenced..
The only extra equipment required for the bus is a new set of stairs, easy and can be built on site.
However, when you compare an A320 to a 737 classic, there is really no comparison. The 737 classics are very limited into HON. A 737 classic at max zero fuel weight, can only carry enough fuel to reach a viable alternate from top of descent. and when I say viable alternate I mean Noumea, This has been discussed many times on previous threads. As far as SON being suitable, that only works if you plan to arrive there in daylight hours.(no-one to turn on the lights at night for you). ON does not have any arrangement in place for a responsible person to be there at night, no one does.
If you cant get in to HON you are not going to get into Vila. That's a fact. And as far as using Nauru as an alternate, you will be there for a while , because there is no fuel available there since the underground fuel tanks filled with water and contaminated themselves.
The airbus is a far superior aircraft in that respect, a new gen 737 is a different story and is a far superior aircraft to the airbus.
Amelia Flashart, where are you coming from....WOW, I mean, if you cant get a seat on the most saturated route in the south pacific, there's something wrong.
Ramsi, as you know, engages airlines to conduct charters for them when they need it on an ad hoc basis. If they dont have the numbers, they but tickets like everyone else.
I'm actually not anti ON either, its just for such an insignificant operation, they seem to have quite a large and well visited thread on here. They are great for a stir. This is only because they are fearful for their positions, and regardless of what they say, (feenix), they really have no idea what is going on, on the route. ON wont be with us much longer.
Just you all wait and see....(flak jacket on and tight)...
Feenix, uncharacteristically silent. Or rather, silenced..
Last edited by ithinkso; 16th May 2009 at 04:37.