Merged: Qantas:The Trashing Of A Brand
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Troll alert!!! with the collapse of AN it should have grown a lot more than that!!
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Last edited by Tidbinbilla; 21st Jun 2008 at 18:55. Reason: Insulting other user
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My 5% worth....
Yes, the QF group has grown under Mr Dixon and co.
However QF itself has shrunk into a disorganized shadow of what it once was.
The root evil in all of this is the segmentation of the business units. In effect it has taken the pride and satisfaction as well as the sense of ownership out of its once loyal employees.
To think that one part of QF would have to fight another part of QF for the work, or QF business.
That creates empires within businesses that are destructive... ie engineering
Whilst I agree there are efficiencies to be made across the board, it should be done as one.
It now seems when the group profit is announced "We are grateful to all our employees for the hard work in achieving these results:" but in the 12 months to that " your business unit is a cost that must be reduced or outsourced and you should be grateful for a job"----- hypocritical!
As for the new a/c coming.. great!!! (B787), off to j* they go... then when they are tired and needing some money spent on them... give them to QF and the -900 newbies can go to J*.
Retire most of the B744's and have a handful 380's doing P and J class flights for the red tail
What will QF be internationally eventually... LHR. SIN. LAX. JFK. JNB???
What was it 5-10 years ago, LHR,CDG,FCO,FRA,BKK,SIN,LAX,JNB,NRT,KIX,MNL,HNL,YVR,PPT,DPS, CGK,..........THE LIST GOES ON !!
Dont forget the plans to create a new company to own the aircraft!!!
Will this phoenix rise from the ashes or will the ashes simply be swept away.....
Im done.
Cheers
Yes, the QF group has grown under Mr Dixon and co.
However QF itself has shrunk into a disorganized shadow of what it once was.
The root evil in all of this is the segmentation of the business units. In effect it has taken the pride and satisfaction as well as the sense of ownership out of its once loyal employees.
To think that one part of QF would have to fight another part of QF for the work, or QF business.
That creates empires within businesses that are destructive... ie engineering
Whilst I agree there are efficiencies to be made across the board, it should be done as one.
It now seems when the group profit is announced "We are grateful to all our employees for the hard work in achieving these results:" but in the 12 months to that " your business unit is a cost that must be reduced or outsourced and you should be grateful for a job"----- hypocritical!
As for the new a/c coming.. great!!! (B787), off to j* they go... then when they are tired and needing some money spent on them... give them to QF and the -900 newbies can go to J*.
Retire most of the B744's and have a handful 380's doing P and J class flights for the red tail
What will QF be internationally eventually... LHR. SIN. LAX. JFK. JNB???
What was it 5-10 years ago, LHR,CDG,FCO,FRA,BKK,SIN,LAX,JNB,NRT,KIX,MNL,HNL,YVR,PPT,DPS, CGK,..........THE LIST GOES ON !!
Dont forget the plans to create a new company to own the aircraft!!!
Will this phoenix rise from the ashes or will the ashes simply be swept away.....
Im done.
Cheers
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Short Haul Skill Set
The boof heads who run Qantas have no idea whatsover on how to run an international operation.
They concentrate on the domestic operation because there is less vigorous competition and they have a reasonable idea of how to run it.
In the international operation they have purchased the wrong aircraft,cant manage yield and continually shrink the network.
The international operation of any airline requires skill, inovation and imagination.
Qantas management lacks all three.
Qantas is run for the benefit of senior management who plunder the coffers and create wealth for themselves through incentives and bonuses.
In effect the revenue base is being funnelled into management pockets.
They concentrate on the domestic operation because there is less vigorous competition and they have a reasonable idea of how to run it.
In the international operation they have purchased the wrong aircraft,cant manage yield and continually shrink the network.
The international operation of any airline requires skill, inovation and imagination.
Qantas management lacks all three.
Qantas is run for the benefit of senior management who plunder the coffers and create wealth for themselves through incentives and bonuses.
In effect the revenue base is being funnelled into management pockets.
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For those few 'experts' out there, waving the Dixon flag, please explain how, under his watch after the AN collapse, QF managed to lose so much of the extra customers handed to them on a silver platter?
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Qantas managed to grab the vast majority of domestic business travel after the collapse of Ansett. They were never going to capture as big a slice of low yield traffic and nor should they have tried. VB had been promised a helping hand from the Howard Government and was ready to swing into action to pick up the nickel and dime traffic left over.
QF has grown its international operation significantly in the past decade which has little to do with the AN collapse. AN International had very little international traffic.
QF has grown internationally during a period when many similar carriers have not. It has made significant profits when many similar carriers have not. And its staff have reaped the rewards of continued employment and promotion.
Can anybody here present data to contradict this. Financial losses. Fleet reductions. Capacity contraction. Employee retrenchments. Anything.
QF has grown its international operation significantly in the past decade which has little to do with the AN collapse. AN International had very little international traffic.
QF has grown internationally during a period when many similar carriers have not. It has made significant profits when many similar carriers have not. And its staff have reaped the rewards of continued employment and promotion.
Can anybody here present data to contradict this. Financial losses. Fleet reductions. Capacity contraction. Employee retrenchments. Anything.
From the 'Tips and Rumours' section of today's Crikey.com.au
Members of the most recent and present Qantas board are facing an interesting time. With the "holier than thou's" calling for Dick Pratt's head on a platter and resignation from all positions outside his company there might well be some other heads keeping well below the radar. Qantas has three major price fixing cartel cases running against it here, in Europe and in the US. Whilst Dickie's company managed only to offend little ol' Australia, the Qantas team has managed to bring down the wrath of the international heavyweights.
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Prof,
You're full of it. Three of my extended family have links with the business. One is married to a travel agent who sell flights and cruises and stuff. One flies for Virgin Blue and one worked in Qantas cabins but has now escaped.
The Virgins got no help from Howard. Qantas didn't grab 90% of the market, it was put under seige by huge numbers of people who didn't have any alternative. I think the Virgins had 8 or 9 jets at that time. Qantas hasn't grown its share of international. It has bled customers to the superior services of Singapore, Cathay Pacific and Air NZ and scored big time losses to Emirates from braver souls than me.
I don't really like flying with Virgin but at a lower fare than Qantas for a reasonable seat it works fine for short trips. You can be pro union or anti union, I don't give a stuff one way or 'tother but I do know when a company is in deep **** with its customers and that is Qantas at this stage.
It needs new leadership.
You're full of it. Three of my extended family have links with the business. One is married to a travel agent who sell flights and cruises and stuff. One flies for Virgin Blue and one worked in Qantas cabins but has now escaped.
The Virgins got no help from Howard. Qantas didn't grab 90% of the market, it was put under seige by huge numbers of people who didn't have any alternative. I think the Virgins had 8 or 9 jets at that time. Qantas hasn't grown its share of international. It has bled customers to the superior services of Singapore, Cathay Pacific and Air NZ and scored big time losses to Emirates from braver souls than me.
I don't really like flying with Virgin but at a lower fare than Qantas for a reasonable seat it works fine for short trips. You can be pro union or anti union, I don't give a stuff one way or 'tother but I do know when a company is in deep **** with its customers and that is Qantas at this stage.
It needs new leadership.
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Professor,
As part of a long term madness Qantas for a minor plus on the groups balance sheet has striven to decimate it's engineering department.
Gone are the day's of 99% despatch reliability, aircraft that left main base for overseas flying or started their days domestic flying with "nil defects", so what! the risk managers might say, the what is now there for all to see, absolute chaos and will get worse not because of so called greedy engineers, you know the guy's who went three years without a pay rise (totalling 9%).
Lay the blame squarely where it belongs, that is at the feet of the management style which ignores the basics, refuses to listen as to why things were done the way they were and arrogantly insists that engineering needs a fiscal lobotomy and must be hived off.
As part of a long term madness Qantas for a minor plus on the groups balance sheet has striven to decimate it's engineering department.
Gone are the day's of 99% despatch reliability, aircraft that left main base for overseas flying or started their days domestic flying with "nil defects", so what! the risk managers might say, the what is now there for all to see, absolute chaos and will get worse not because of so called greedy engineers, you know the guy's who went three years without a pay rise (totalling 9%).
Lay the blame squarely where it belongs, that is at the feet of the management style which ignores the basics, refuses to listen as to why things were done the way they were and arrogantly insists that engineering needs a fiscal lobotomy and must be hived off.
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Qantas Shrinks
In the past five years alone has retrenched 1200 of its long haul flight atendants..
In the same period it has also reduced the ranks of lower order management by almost 1500.
When dixon talks of increasing employment he is referring to the Group not Qantas Mainline
Under Dixon's reign the network has shrunk significantly.
The age of its fleet has increased to the point where it is now the oldest in the region.
Outbound pax loads have increased due to the strenght of the $A.
Qantas share of inbound traffic has been reduced by 11%.
Capacity constraints world wide have also contributed to high seat factors.
None of this is down to dixon and his business skills...he has none.
The private equity buy out,late or cancelled departures and shoddy customer service have taken their toll on the brand.
Two years ago Qantas was ranked Number 1 as Australia's most authentic brand.
Thanks to dixon it is now ranked 14th.
Accusing aircraft engineers of the sabotage of aircraft,cancelling their shift and then docking their pay for not working their overtime is a reminder of the desperation of a company on the skids..note todays shareprice.
It has little to do with price of AV Gas but rather it is a sign of a company that has lost its management and market leadership qualities.
Both the Brand and the Company have been trashed by the total ineptitude and sense of entitlement of dixon and his band of incompetents.
Leigh Clifford.... Qantas is in need of immediate CPR (Company Performance Resuscitation) So for Christs sake pull your finger out and fix it before its too Farking late
In the same period it has also reduced the ranks of lower order management by almost 1500.
When dixon talks of increasing employment he is referring to the Group not Qantas Mainline
Under Dixon's reign the network has shrunk significantly.
The age of its fleet has increased to the point where it is now the oldest in the region.
Outbound pax loads have increased due to the strenght of the $A.
Qantas share of inbound traffic has been reduced by 11%.
Capacity constraints world wide have also contributed to high seat factors.
None of this is down to dixon and his business skills...he has none.
The private equity buy out,late or cancelled departures and shoddy customer service have taken their toll on the brand.
Two years ago Qantas was ranked Number 1 as Australia's most authentic brand.
Thanks to dixon it is now ranked 14th.
Accusing aircraft engineers of the sabotage of aircraft,cancelling their shift and then docking their pay for not working their overtime is a reminder of the desperation of a company on the skids..note todays shareprice.
It has little to do with price of AV Gas but rather it is a sign of a company that has lost its management and market leadership qualities.
Both the Brand and the Company have been trashed by the total ineptitude and sense of entitlement of dixon and his band of incompetents.
Leigh Clifford.... Qantas is in need of immediate CPR (Company Performance Resuscitation) So for Christs sake pull your finger out and fix it before its too Farking late
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And its staff have reaped the rewards of continued employment and promotion.
Can anybody here present data to contradict this. Financial losses. Fleet reductions. Capacity contraction. Employee retrenchments. Anything.
Can anybody here present data to contradict this. Financial losses. Fleet reductions. Capacity contraction. Employee retrenchments. Anything.
Not enough pushback drivers at various times of the day, causing delayed departures. Makes sense.
A reduction in checkin staff during the same time that pax numbers are increasing. Makes sense.
One less flight attendant on Dom B737 ops, and reductions in F/As in other fleets, at the same time you wheel out a labour intensive Neil Perry 1st & business class cabin product. Makes sense.
The list goes on... in the name of increased bonuses - oops I mean profits.
There will come a time when this short term outlook will be seen to have killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
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Qantas a loser in brand wars
Qantas a loser in brand wars
Neil Shoebridge
Last years failed private equity bid and ongoing complaints about late flights and shoddy customers service have taken a toll on the Qantas brand.
Two years ago the marketing firm Principles and research company Synovate surveyed consumers to create a ranking of Australia's most authentic brands. Qantas topped the list, followed by Cadbury, Nokia and Bonds.
Principles and Synovate repeated the the research earlier this year, quizzing 4500 consumers (up from 2500 in 2006) about 104 brands (up from 70).
Qantas slumped to 14th place on the list of the most authentic brands. Microsoft and Google moved up the list from fifth and sixth respectively in the 2006 survey to first and second this year.
"The unsuccessful attempt to sell the airline to private equity firms and declining customer service standards have hurt the Qantas brand" Principles planning director Wayde Bull said.
"Qantas's standing as a heritage brand has declined because it does things that have raised doubts in consumers minds about its right to wrap itself in the Australian flag"
Qantas was not the only brand that scored lower on the Principles and Synovate authentic brand index, which is based on nine online surveys of consumers.
The surveys asked consumers about the 104 brands heritage, familiarity, personal utility, originality, momentum, sincerity and declared beliefs - that is, the philosophy behind the brands.
The seven area's were identified in the 2006 research as the key factors that shape a brand's authenticity.
ING direct posted the biggest decline on the index, sliding 9.7 point sot 20.3.
Synovate group managing director Dean Harris blamed the decline on ING's rivals copying its product and services in recent years.
"ING was seen as an innovator and pioneer in the financial services sector, but now a lot of other companies are offering similar products" he said.
"Its decline shows that challenger brands such as ING Direct need to keep challenging the market to stay ahead.
"They need to keep coming up with breakthrough innovations or consumers will quickly stop seeing them as challenger brands."
The average score across the brands Principle and Synovate covered was two points lower that the 2006 survey.
"Tougher economic conditions mean that people are tougher in their assessment of brands," Mr Bull said.
"People are also becoming more judgmental of brands and the extent to which they deliver on their word. We are all less accepting of marketing claims on face value.
"People have more access to critiques of brands, mainly via the internet, and companies have less control over the information being spread about their brands" he said.
Technology and communications brands were the star performers in this years survey, taking four spots in the list of the 10 most authentic brands.
"Brands such as Microsoft, Google and Sony have replaced food and beverage brands as the dominant fast-moving consumer brands" Mr Harris said.
"They touch peoples lives every day. They change all the time.
"They are focused on constant innovation."
Grocery wholesaler Metcash's retail brand IGA was the fastest rising brand on the Principles and Synovate index, jumping 14.5 points to a score of 34.5.
That put it in 29th place, just behind GlaxoSmithKline's Panadol and ahead of Kraft Food's Kraft.
"IGA's positioning as a community brand and an alternative to the big supermarket chains appeals to consumers," Mr Harris said.
"It is also a very simple positioning, one that is seen as sincere by many consumers."
The research also identified a large group of brands that Mr Bull described as "hollow icons", including David Jones, Myer, Telstra, Optus, Ford, John West, Sara Lee and the big four banks.
"These are brands that are familiar to most people but have no other level of engagement," he said.
"They're not seen as innovative or genuinely different of brands that add real value to peoples lives."
The study also also found a group of brands that Synovate and Principles called question marks.
There are brands that are relatively new and therefore unknown to many consumers, and brands that are losing their relevance.
The question marks category included AAPT, Rebel Sport, Virgin Mobile, Hyundai, Emirates, Skype and Jetstar.
Neil Shoebridge
Last years failed private equity bid and ongoing complaints about late flights and shoddy customers service have taken a toll on the Qantas brand.
Two years ago the marketing firm Principles and research company Synovate surveyed consumers to create a ranking of Australia's most authentic brands. Qantas topped the list, followed by Cadbury, Nokia and Bonds.
Principles and Synovate repeated the the research earlier this year, quizzing 4500 consumers (up from 2500 in 2006) about 104 brands (up from 70).
Qantas slumped to 14th place on the list of the most authentic brands. Microsoft and Google moved up the list from fifth and sixth respectively in the 2006 survey to first and second this year.
"The unsuccessful attempt to sell the airline to private equity firms and declining customer service standards have hurt the Qantas brand" Principles planning director Wayde Bull said.
"Qantas's standing as a heritage brand has declined because it does things that have raised doubts in consumers minds about its right to wrap itself in the Australian flag"
Qantas was not the only brand that scored lower on the Principles and Synovate authentic brand index, which is based on nine online surveys of consumers.
The surveys asked consumers about the 104 brands heritage, familiarity, personal utility, originality, momentum, sincerity and declared beliefs - that is, the philosophy behind the brands.
The seven area's were identified in the 2006 research as the key factors that shape a brand's authenticity.
ING direct posted the biggest decline on the index, sliding 9.7 point sot 20.3.
Synovate group managing director Dean Harris blamed the decline on ING's rivals copying its product and services in recent years.
"ING was seen as an innovator and pioneer in the financial services sector, but now a lot of other companies are offering similar products" he said.
"Its decline shows that challenger brands such as ING Direct need to keep challenging the market to stay ahead.
"They need to keep coming up with breakthrough innovations or consumers will quickly stop seeing them as challenger brands."
The average score across the brands Principle and Synovate covered was two points lower that the 2006 survey.
"Tougher economic conditions mean that people are tougher in their assessment of brands," Mr Bull said.
"People are also becoming more judgmental of brands and the extent to which they deliver on their word. We are all less accepting of marketing claims on face value.
"People have more access to critiques of brands, mainly via the internet, and companies have less control over the information being spread about their brands" he said.
Technology and communications brands were the star performers in this years survey, taking four spots in the list of the 10 most authentic brands.
"Brands such as Microsoft, Google and Sony have replaced food and beverage brands as the dominant fast-moving consumer brands" Mr Harris said.
"They touch peoples lives every day. They change all the time.
"They are focused on constant innovation."
Grocery wholesaler Metcash's retail brand IGA was the fastest rising brand on the Principles and Synovate index, jumping 14.5 points to a score of 34.5.
That put it in 29th place, just behind GlaxoSmithKline's Panadol and ahead of Kraft Food's Kraft.
"IGA's positioning as a community brand and an alternative to the big supermarket chains appeals to consumers," Mr Harris said.
"It is also a very simple positioning, one that is seen as sincere by many consumers."
The research also identified a large group of brands that Mr Bull described as "hollow icons", including David Jones, Myer, Telstra, Optus, Ford, John West, Sara Lee and the big four banks.
"These are brands that are familiar to most people but have no other level of engagement," he said.
"They're not seen as innovative or genuinely different of brands that add real value to peoples lives."
The study also also found a group of brands that Synovate and Principles called question marks.
There are brands that are relatively new and therefore unknown to many consumers, and brands that are losing their relevance.
The question marks category included AAPT, Rebel Sport, Virgin Mobile, Hyundai, Emirates, Skype and Jetstar.
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Qantas making Money?
The money that should have been invested in product in both product and equipment has shown up on the positive side of the ledger.
Any twit can achieve that result.
Having a healthy balance sheet and a healthy business requires real business acumen.
The "lets bleed it before it dies"resolve of Qantas management is morally and ethically repugnant.
Any twit can achieve that result.
Having a healthy balance sheet and a healthy business requires real business acumen.
The "lets bleed it before it dies"resolve of Qantas management is morally and ethically repugnant.
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Yes to Konehead, but that's only part of the story.
The deliberate disenfranchisement of staff will be the clincher.
They have reduced cabin crew numbers and now have full time FA's working with casual FA's employed by an employment agency, someone who has never lived in the real world thought that would work, "don't worry the plebs will never notice".
The engineering "management" has dropped customer contracts Australia wide as of today and will no doubt strip licenced engineers of the payments for holding licences for said customers as part of a ploy in dealing with the current industrial situation.
The cost cutting for a bigger bonus idea has been a plus for the sycophants, aye.
"You don't know what you got til it's gone"
The deliberate disenfranchisement of staff will be the clincher.
They have reduced cabin crew numbers and now have full time FA's working with casual FA's employed by an employment agency, someone who has never lived in the real world thought that would work, "don't worry the plebs will never notice".
The engineering "management" has dropped customer contracts Australia wide as of today and will no doubt strip licenced engineers of the payments for holding licences for said customers as part of a ploy in dealing with the current industrial situation.
The cost cutting for a bigger bonus idea has been a plus for the sycophants, aye.
"You don't know what you got til it's gone"
They have reduced cabin crew numbers and now have full time FA's working with casual FA's employed by an employment agency, someone who has never lived in the real world thought that would work, "don't worry the plebs will never notice".
Two companies in the USA, West Marine and Circuit City dliberately fired their most experienced sales and service staff and replaced them with cheaper, and far less expereinced people. Both are now only just staving off bankruptcy.
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Another slice of qantas management brilliance...............
Quote-
"Two companies in the USA, West Marine and Circuit City dliberately fired their most experienced sales and service staff and replaced them with cheaper, and far less expereinced people. Both are now only just staving off bankruptcy."
_______________
Get this for brilliance!!
The A380, Qantas's brand new flagship carrier shortly due for launch is going to be crewed by the cheapest and most inexperienced F/As Qantas have.
A subsidiary company was set up for this aircraft type called Qantas Cabin Crew Australia.
F/As for this company receive substantially less pay [25%] and work substantially more hours per roster period [20%]
Qantas refused to have it's existing cabin crew operate this aircraft type as we were deemed to be too costly.
A proportion of positions [20%] were set aside for us but only on a temporary basis [2 years] the other 80% will be the new hires.
Existing Qantas crew who will make up the 20% will receive a top up payment so they won't suffer substantial financial loss but with only two or three destinations to fly to the rush to take up these positions hasn't been great
The roll out of this aircraft from a service perspective is guaranteed to be a cluster f@#k of gigantic proportions due to the complexity of the service, the number of J/C passengers and the wifi devices crew will be using to place food and drink orders.
Conversations I've had with Singapore airlines F/As confirm that they don't get near their prestigious International flying until they gain experience flying regionally around Asia.
They [Singapore Airlines] are presently experiencing major problems running their 70 odd seat business class cabin due to a lack of galley space, poor equipment and sheer logistical challenges.
With a disturbing [for SQ] number of complaints being received from their high yield business class passengers
The irony being that you can bet your left testicle that SQ are NOT stupid enough to put brand new cut price 21 year old [life experience poor] F/As on their flag ship carrier.
The brilliance surrounding the upcoming Qantas train wreck is that it'll be all so public.
Qantas management. You are ASSCLOWNS
"Two companies in the USA, West Marine and Circuit City dliberately fired their most experienced sales and service staff and replaced them with cheaper, and far less expereinced people. Both are now only just staving off bankruptcy."
_______________
Get this for brilliance!!
The A380, Qantas's brand new flagship carrier shortly due for launch is going to be crewed by the cheapest and most inexperienced F/As Qantas have.
A subsidiary company was set up for this aircraft type called Qantas Cabin Crew Australia.
F/As for this company receive substantially less pay [25%] and work substantially more hours per roster period [20%]
Qantas refused to have it's existing cabin crew operate this aircraft type as we were deemed to be too costly.
A proportion of positions [20%] were set aside for us but only on a temporary basis [2 years] the other 80% will be the new hires.
Existing Qantas crew who will make up the 20% will receive a top up payment so they won't suffer substantial financial loss but with only two or three destinations to fly to the rush to take up these positions hasn't been great
The roll out of this aircraft from a service perspective is guaranteed to be a cluster f@#k of gigantic proportions due to the complexity of the service, the number of J/C passengers and the wifi devices crew will be using to place food and drink orders.
Conversations I've had with Singapore airlines F/As confirm that they don't get near their prestigious International flying until they gain experience flying regionally around Asia.
They [Singapore Airlines] are presently experiencing major problems running their 70 odd seat business class cabin due to a lack of galley space, poor equipment and sheer logistical challenges.
With a disturbing [for SQ] number of complaints being received from their high yield business class passengers
The irony being that you can bet your left testicle that SQ are NOT stupid enough to put brand new cut price 21 year old [life experience poor] F/As on their flag ship carrier.
The brilliance surrounding the upcoming Qantas train wreck is that it'll be all so public.
Qantas management. You are ASSCLOWNS
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Speedbirdhouse,
SQ in most cases put all their crew on all of the aircraft from the start, just usually not in F or J. Although J is done quite early on after a few flights down the back, but F is not until they are mature! (in fact have been promoted to Leading crew grade).
They also do long haul flights right from day 1, they dont just travel short regional flights as they are trained and rostered by a.c type and that would be impossible to roster.
With QF, could we honestly say that the QF Brand will be destroyed by new crew only operating the A380...lets be fair whilst no one likes to see conditions deteriorating...QF is hardly renowned for its inflight service. In fact its quite the opposite.
SQ in most cases put all their crew on all of the aircraft from the start, just usually not in F or J. Although J is done quite early on after a few flights down the back, but F is not until they are mature! (in fact have been promoted to Leading crew grade).
They also do long haul flights right from day 1, they dont just travel short regional flights as they are trained and rostered by a.c type and that would be impossible to roster.
With QF, could we honestly say that the QF Brand will be destroyed by new crew only operating the A380...lets be fair whilst no one likes to see conditions deteriorating...QF is hardly renowned for its inflight service. In fact its quite the opposite.