Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
G'Day 'Direct', et al,
In YOUR mind, you are simply not going to do so much O/T, catch up on sleep, relieve the fatigue a bit, and most of all, spend time with your family.
All Very commendable, and honourable. And its an ENTITLEMENT!!
Unfortunately, the story when presented will NOT read this way - not at all!
Its called politics! Unfortunately.
Please, if you have any influence with your union, read Di Vosh, and read it again.
The headlines have already spoken about STRIKES not being on, all they are waiting for now is for the so called 'strikes' to be on!
The 'public' don't care about YOUR issues!
They think you are all well paid and greedy for more.
Remember the 63% B/S....
ALL they want is to be able to travel from A to B - on time, and in 'perceived' safety!
Public opinion 'on side' will allow you a bigger 'stick' than no public opinion - or, put another way, if you are able to show that you are NOT 'on strike', nor taking any other 'Industrial Action', but simply have 'had enough', and can ILLUSTRATE / PROVE your point - you will gain public sympathy which in turn will put pressure on the Govt. to 'hold an enquiry' etc etc.
Where are those rosters with the blanks for example?
Where are the 'completed' rosters, as worked, showing little or no time off?
The facts, man, nuthin' but the facts...
If you think this is load of cod's, then, in the fullness of time, we will see what we will see....that's about the only way I could say what I feel - politely.
The readers of these forums are largely supportive I reckon - we (me anyway)
KNOW the story - backwards - but the public do not!
Now, there's a challenge for the Civilair 'PR' machine..... IMHO....
OVAH!
In YOUR mind, you are simply not going to do so much O/T, catch up on sleep, relieve the fatigue a bit, and most of all, spend time with your family.
All Very commendable, and honourable. And its an ENTITLEMENT!!
Unfortunately, the story when presented will NOT read this way - not at all!
Its called politics! Unfortunately.
Please, if you have any influence with your union, read Di Vosh, and read it again.
The headlines have already spoken about STRIKES not being on, all they are waiting for now is for the so called 'strikes' to be on!
The 'public' don't care about YOUR issues!
They think you are all well paid and greedy for more.
Remember the 63% B/S....
ALL they want is to be able to travel from A to B - on time, and in 'perceived' safety!
Public opinion 'on side' will allow you a bigger 'stick' than no public opinion - or, put another way, if you are able to show that you are NOT 'on strike', nor taking any other 'Industrial Action', but simply have 'had enough', and can ILLUSTRATE / PROVE your point - you will gain public sympathy which in turn will put pressure on the Govt. to 'hold an enquiry' etc etc.
Where are those rosters with the blanks for example?
Where are the 'completed' rosters, as worked, showing little or no time off?
The facts, man, nuthin' but the facts...
If you think this is load of cod's, then, in the fullness of time, we will see what we will see....that's about the only way I could say what I feel - politely.
The readers of these forums are largely supportive I reckon - we (me anyway)
KNOW the story - backwards - but the public do not!
Now, there's a challenge for the Civilair 'PR' machine..... IMHO....
OVAH!
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 11th Feb 2009 at 16:02. Reason: Clarity of some points...
'd.n.s.',
Yeah! We've noticed.
I wonder if your Civilair executives have given any / much thought to joining an accomplished union.
The benefits are enormous.
Professional full time assistance - instead of controllers trying to run a console AND run a union....plus the established resources etc., and the experience of dealing with 'TFNs' in the industrial sense.....
And knowing how to run a 'public' campaign and to seek the cooperation of the union movement generally.
Is it possible??
Cheers.
p.s. I've added to the previous post a little for clarity of points....
Yeah! We've noticed.
I wonder if your Civilair executives have given any / much thought to joining an accomplished union.
The benefits are enormous.
Professional full time assistance - instead of controllers trying to run a console AND run a union....plus the established resources etc., and the experience of dealing with 'TFNs' in the industrial sense.....
And knowing how to run a 'public' campaign and to seek the cooperation of the union movement generally.
Is it possible??
Cheers.
p.s. I've added to the previous post a little for clarity of points....
You guys need to HIRE a PR outfit. If you don't, and get them to put out an easily understandable sound bite, then your campaign is over even before it starts.
BTW, if the Minister called the meeting but was not in attendance, then that speaks volumes too. What it says is that "plausible deniability" is very much on the Ministers mind.
BTW, if the Minister called the meeting but was not in attendance, then that speaks volumes too. What it says is that "plausible deniability" is very much on the Ministers mind.
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Ex FSO Griffo & Sunfish
THANK YOU!
You've pretty much said what I was going to say (probably better than me
), but I'll say it again, anyway.
Uatc, I saw the media releases, thanks. Your problem is that a media release doesn't necessarily mean that the public get to see it. You've got a message, but it's not being delivered effectively. For that you need PR!
If Civilair don't have a PR unit, then you need professional help. Are you able to get PR advice from the ACTU? (They have run very effective PR campaigns in the past). If not (as SF suggested) hire a PR unit.
PR units have the advantage that they aren't emotionally attached to the issues. They can take a step back and identify what it will take to get the public back on your side.
And right now the public ISN'T on your side.
It seems to me that you guys are fighting for your professional lives. If so, then you must do whatever it takes to ensure your professional futures!
DIVOSH!
You've pretty much said what I was going to say (probably better than me
), but I'll say it again, anyway. Uatc, I saw the media releases, thanks. Your problem is that a media release doesn't necessarily mean that the public get to see it. You've got a message, but it's not being delivered effectively. For that you need PR!
If Civilair don't have a PR unit, then you need professional help. Are you able to get PR advice from the ACTU? (They have run very effective PR campaigns in the past). If not (as SF suggested) hire a PR unit.
PR units have the advantage that they aren't emotionally attached to the issues. They can take a step back and identify what it will take to get the public back on your side.
And right now the public ISN'T on your side.
It seems to me that you guys are fighting for your professional lives. If so, then you must do whatever it takes to ensure your professional futures!
DIVOSH!
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D.N.S.
Thanks for that. IMHO, the ACTU would be the first point of contact re: PR.
PR may not be cheap. But what is the price of NOT having PR?
DIVOSH!
(NEVER underestimate the importance of spin)
Thanks for that. IMHO, the ACTU would be the first point of contact re: PR.
the only real issue is cost.
DIVOSH!
(NEVER underestimate the importance of spin)
I think that when you have a monopoly on the service like controllers do, PR is by the by. If the public don't like it, so what, nothing they can do. They can and will bleet and carry on but unless controllers listen then the controllers will win. Pressure from the public and the airlines on the govt will force them to pay the controllers pretty much what they are asking. There will be carry on about being held to ransom and that is exactly what the controllers should do.
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Auf Wiedersehen!
Direkt Nr. Speed,
Es ist ein Vergnügen und eine Stunde die Arbeit an der Seite Sie in all diesen Jahren - können Sie Ihre Winde werden von der hinten, kann Ihr Himmel ist blau, und können Sie gedeihen in der Herausforderung, die Sie selbst erhalten haben.
Genießen.
- blame Google Translate for any dodgy stuff here...
Es ist ein Vergnügen und eine Stunde die Arbeit an der Seite Sie in all diesen Jahren - können Sie Ihre Winde werden von der hinten, kann Ihr Himmel ist blau, und können Sie gedeihen in der Herausforderung, die Sie selbst erhalten haben.
Genießen.
- blame Google Translate for any dodgy stuff here...
Good Luck 'd.n.s.' in your 'new' career.
Enjoy the new culture, and stay out of deep gorges when it rains, and beware of avalanches.....
Cheers
Enjoy the new culture, and stay out of deep gorges when it rains, and beware of avalanches.....
Cheers
For the rest of the workers in ATC land,
ABC News (Radio) this morning reporting that the results of ATC ballot are about to be announced,
and STRIKE imminent.
2 points only-
- ATC's demanding 7% wage increase,
- ATC's NOT wanting to give up 'unlimited sick leave'.
No other explanations at all.
Is this not self-explanatory to you?
i.e. who but a bunch of 'greedy so and so's' would demand a 7% wage increase in these times of the financial meltdown,
and,
'unlimited sick leave' sounds very much like a 'perk' when used in isolation without any explanation, and out of context.
It does not mention any reference to the actual amount of sick leave taken...
NO response from the ATC at all.
Where is your counter-statement?????
Sad, guys & gals..........
ABC News (Radio) this morning reporting that the results of ATC ballot are about to be announced,
and STRIKE imminent.
2 points only-
- ATC's demanding 7% wage increase,
- ATC's NOT wanting to give up 'unlimited sick leave'.
No other explanations at all.
Is this not self-explanatory to you?
i.e. who but a bunch of 'greedy so and so's' would demand a 7% wage increase in these times of the financial meltdown,
and,
'unlimited sick leave' sounds very much like a 'perk' when used in isolation without any explanation, and out of context.
It does not mention any reference to the actual amount of sick leave taken...
NO response from the ATC at all.
Where is your counter-statement?????
Sad, guys & gals..........
I don't know what you are trying to prove/achieve Griffo? Cpt Snafu has described the reality quite well. Our realeases go out and information makes it to the papers. Like I said, don't sweat it.
G'Day Plaz,
As an ex FSO, and one of the 'Reps' during all of that time....been there - done that.
With industry support and 'their' own ineptitude of the times, it only took 'them' 9 years to get rid of us.
You guys are way in front of that as you must(?) be seen as an 'essential service'.
This can be good - this can be bad.
Good - you are needed to keep the transport requirements of the country running.
Bad - because you are, then you are vulnerable to 'public opinion' and the consequent Govt potential knee jerk reaction to keep you working under some form of legal redress.
You may get some of your RDO's, when this is seen to be THE big problem that it is,
and the CEO may get a kick in the pants for not recruiting more etc,
but the pay rise is looking shaky...IMHO.
And, lastly, alas, NOBODY KNOWS (i.e. the public AND the pollies) about the facts / reality of the situation.
And, as a pilot (CPL and Rec.), and ex FSO, I feel for you.
I think I was trying to show that there is some naiveity here??
As have others?
I hate to say this Plaz, but you did ask, I think you're going to 'get rolled'.
Unfortunately.
But I sincerely hope that you don't!
As an ex FSO, and one of the 'Reps' during all of that time....been there - done that.
With industry support and 'their' own ineptitude of the times, it only took 'them' 9 years to get rid of us.
You guys are way in front of that as you must(?) be seen as an 'essential service'.
This can be good - this can be bad.
Good - you are needed to keep the transport requirements of the country running.
Bad - because you are, then you are vulnerable to 'public opinion' and the consequent Govt potential knee jerk reaction to keep you working under some form of legal redress.
You may get some of your RDO's, when this is seen to be THE big problem that it is,
and the CEO may get a kick in the pants for not recruiting more etc,
but the pay rise is looking shaky...IMHO.
And, lastly, alas, NOBODY KNOWS (i.e. the public AND the pollies) about the facts / reality of the situation.
And, as a pilot (CPL and Rec.), and ex FSO, I feel for you.
I think I was trying to show that there is some naiveity here??
As have others?
I hate to say this Plaz, but you did ask, I think you're going to 'get rolled'.
Unfortunately.
But I sincerely hope that you don't!
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Griffo,
Thanks for your support on this and other threads.
We don't have to work in Oz, there are quite a few people with O/S offers being considered, and others who are tarting up the CVs. Most will stay for lifestyle/family reasons.But those that leave will finally break the already creaking system.
Unless they put our pictures up at the airports and march us at gunpoint to the consoles, alot more people will leave.
It is assumed as though we don't have a choice but to work in Oz. From being in the system previously , you know the pride we have in the job. None of us want to hurt the public. I hope they won't be too upset when a critical mass of controllers leave and a bad situation gets worse.
This is not a threat, we have had enough, if it doesn't improve we are left with no choice but to look elsewhere. It is an absolutely toxic environment to work in, and this can be placed squarely at the feet of the CEO and his Spin Doctors.
Thanks for your support on this and other threads.
We don't have to work in Oz, there are quite a few people with O/S offers being considered, and others who are tarting up the CVs. Most will stay for lifestyle/family reasons.But those that leave will finally break the already creaking system.
Unless they put our pictures up at the airports and march us at gunpoint to the consoles, alot more people will leave.
It is assumed as though we don't have a choice but to work in Oz. From being in the system previously , you know the pride we have in the job. None of us want to hurt the public. I hope they won't be too upset when a critical mass of controllers leave and a bad situation gets worse.
This is not a threat, we have had enough, if it doesn't improve we are left with no choice but to look elsewhere. It is an absolutely toxic environment to work in, and this can be placed squarely at the feet of the CEO and his Spin Doctors.
G'Day Max,
Thanks for that.
Yep! THAT is your 'Ace In The Hole'...your democratic right as an Australian to seek your employment wherever you may see fit, and support your family.
As many have done so far - and more will keep doing.
The way its going................will you please turn the light off??
Cheers
Thanks for that.
Yep! THAT is your 'Ace In The Hole'...your democratic right as an Australian to seek your employment wherever you may see fit, and support your family.
As many have done so far - and more will keep doing.
The way its going................will you please turn the light off??
Cheers
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Griffo,
I understand your comment about "ace-in-the-hole", but isn't that such a sad state of affairs when conditions reach the stage where people are forced to "vote with their feet". I don't know that we can afford to have a brain-drain of this nature. All that talent and experience lost - I imagine it will take years to rebuild, unless something positive happens and we can attract back those who have gone overseas. But I can't imagine that they'd want to come back under the present regime because if people are still bailing out, then it sends the message that nothing's changed since they, themselves, departed. It's almost the classic "death-spiral" and I can't see the demand from overseas outfits decreasing. Hell, if I worked for this bunch and had the opportunity to drink Guiness at the source for a few years, I'd jump at the opportunity as well. I certainly don't blame them for taking the option but it's so forking sad that it's reached this stage.
To reverse the adage, the powers that be seem determined to adopt a position of "short term gain for long term pain". For everybody else, of course. The perpetrators will be long gone and on descent under the golden parachute by then.
I understand your comment about "ace-in-the-hole", but isn't that such a sad state of affairs when conditions reach the stage where people are forced to "vote with their feet". I don't know that we can afford to have a brain-drain of this nature. All that talent and experience lost - I imagine it will take years to rebuild, unless something positive happens and we can attract back those who have gone overseas. But I can't imagine that they'd want to come back under the present regime because if people are still bailing out, then it sends the message that nothing's changed since they, themselves, departed. It's almost the classic "death-spiral" and I can't see the demand from overseas outfits decreasing. Hell, if I worked for this bunch and had the opportunity to drink Guiness at the source for a few years, I'd jump at the opportunity as well. I certainly don't blame them for taking the option but it's so forking sad that it's reached this stage.
To reverse the adage, the powers that be seem determined to adopt a position of "short term gain for long term pain". For everybody else, of course. The perpetrators will be long gone and on descent under the golden parachute by then.
Last edited by Howabout; 12th Feb 2009 at 03:57. Reason: spulling - NZ spull chuck
Gudday 'Howabout',
If I try and do that 'Kiwi' thing I'm gunna stuff it - so I won't.
" the powers that be seem determined to adopt a position of "short term gain for long term pain".
YUP!! YUP!! and YUP!!! and YUP!! AGAIN - I think!!
Cheers
(Imagine asking one of our near-Asian country neighbours for the Area QNH......
Goodness gracious me, it is 1013.....)
If I try and do that 'Kiwi' thing I'm gunna stuff it - so I won't.
" the powers that be seem determined to adopt a position of "short term gain for long term pain".
YUP!! YUP!! and YUP!!! and YUP!! AGAIN - I think!!
Cheers
(Imagine asking one of our near-Asian country neighbours for the Area QNH......
Goodness gracious me, it is 1013.....)
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Ballot Results
YES 94.4% ( 701 Votes )
NO 5.6% ( 42 Votes )
Hold on to your hats, this is going to get interesting
Civil Air Australia - Home
NO 5.6% ( 42 Votes )
Hold on to your hats, this is going to get interesting
Civil Air Australia - Home
THAT result is VERY good guys and gals.
The O/T issue will certainly see some sort of result.
And 'legal' too, in that whilst your EBA requires you to do 'reasonable' O/T, that cannot mean every 'spare hole' - surely??
Good Stuff, and a GREAT result.
Cheers
The O/T issue will certainly see some sort of result.
And 'legal' too, in that whilst your EBA requires you to do 'reasonable' O/T, that cannot mean every 'spare hole' - surely??
Good Stuff, and a GREAT result.
Cheers