Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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Whilst we are on the subject of bonuses.
This is how the bureaucrats got around it and still feathered their nests.
It was decided that bonuses were not conducive in a safety critical area. It could be argued that there may be a conflict of interest to achieve the bonus. Managers decided that they would now have an 'at risk' component of their salary. If previously your package included a bonus and a salary component e.g. $160k salary plus $40k bonus, your salary for superannuation purposes was $160k.
Under the 'at risk' scenario, your salary for superannuation is now considered to be $200k but $40k is now 'at risk'. Beautiful isn't it. It is still a good sling for doing what you are supposed to be doing and your superannuation is markedly higher, and of course there is now apparently no conflict of interest.
Remember the oil price is high, we are constrained by the Government Bargaining Framework, industry is struggling, we have infrastructure to pay for, my little brother scribbled on my homework, SARs,9/11,we need to pay big money to get the right management, etc,etc.
I think that controllers would not be so angry if we had seen restraint across the organisation in wages and salaries, but it is galling to see middle and upper management continually treating themselves to large payrises when 95% of income has come from Airways Charges . $528m in 2004 to $707m in 2008 with less controllers and more managers and this at a time when we are continually charging less.
This is how the bureaucrats got around it and still feathered their nests.
It was decided that bonuses were not conducive in a safety critical area. It could be argued that there may be a conflict of interest to achieve the bonus. Managers decided that they would now have an 'at risk' component of their salary. If previously your package included a bonus and a salary component e.g. $160k salary plus $40k bonus, your salary for superannuation purposes was $160k.
Under the 'at risk' scenario, your salary for superannuation is now considered to be $200k but $40k is now 'at risk'. Beautiful isn't it. It is still a good sling for doing what you are supposed to be doing and your superannuation is markedly higher, and of course there is now apparently no conflict of interest.
Remember the oil price is high, we are constrained by the Government Bargaining Framework, industry is struggling, we have infrastructure to pay for, my little brother scribbled on my homework, SARs,9/11,we need to pay big money to get the right management, etc,etc.
I think that controllers would not be so angry if we had seen restraint across the organisation in wages and salaries, but it is galling to see middle and upper management continually treating themselves to large payrises when 95% of income has come from Airways Charges . $528m in 2004 to $707m in 2008 with less controllers and more managers and this at a time when we are continually charging less.
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Airservices' legal position re staffing issues...
Maybe someone can help me here with a fairly basic observation that I have in regard to the current Australian civil ATC staffing issues.
According to the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, Statutory Rules 1998 No. 237 (as amended) made under the Civil Aviation Act 1988, Part 172 Air Traffic Service Providers, Subpart 172.C Requirements to be complied with by ATS providers, Division 172.C.4 Organisation and personnel, Clause 172.110 Personnel (ain't bureaucracy wonderful?) -
My question is thus:
With the number of airspace closures that have been experienced within the domestic Australian airspace administered by Airservices Australia recently (some 800-odd in the last 8 months), are Airservices Australia in breach of its approval to operate as an ATS provider within Australia?
Who has the authority and/or expertise to pursue this matter? Is it the regulatory authority, CASA? If not, then is it the Federal Government's Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, Anthony Albanese? If not the 'minister responsible' under the Westminster doctrine of ministerial accountability, then who?
Have those with regulatory oversight observed this to be happening? If not, why not - but if so, what is being done to ensure Airservices' compliance with legislated staffing level requirements?
If the regulatory bodies are unable/unwilling to ensure the safety of the flying public, what other legal avenues are available? Would a private citizen with deep pockets and a lengthy interest in the administration of aviation within Australia - for instance - be able to mount a civil action to ensure either immediate compliance or recission of Airservices' regulatory approval?
I read that Airservices Australia - Our Safety Policy is:
I respectfully suggest that, if this were not mere corporate guano, then the best way to fulfill that 'mission' would be to have enough bottoms on seats.
mmaC
According to the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, Statutory Rules 1998 No. 237 (as amended) made under the Civil Aviation Act 1988, Part 172 Air Traffic Service Providers, Subpart 172.C Requirements to be complied with by ATS providers, Division 172.C.4 Organisation and personnel, Clause 172.110 Personnel (ain't bureaucracy wonderful?) -
"An ATS provider must have, at all times, enough suitably qualified and trained personnel to enable it to provide, in accordance with the standards set out in the Manual of Standards and the standards set out or referred to in Annex 11, the air traffic services covered by its approval."
With the number of airspace closures that have been experienced within the domestic Australian airspace administered by Airservices Australia recently (some 800-odd in the last 8 months), are Airservices Australia in breach of its approval to operate as an ATS provider within Australia?
Who has the authority and/or expertise to pursue this matter? Is it the regulatory authority, CASA? If not, then is it the Federal Government's Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, Anthony Albanese? If not the 'minister responsible' under the Westminster doctrine of ministerial accountability, then who?
Have those with regulatory oversight observed this to be happening? If not, why not - but if so, what is being done to ensure Airservices' compliance with legislated staffing level requirements?
If the regulatory bodies are unable/unwilling to ensure the safety of the flying public, what other legal avenues are available? Would a private citizen with deep pockets and a lengthy interest in the administration of aviation within Australia - for instance - be able to mount a civil action to ensure either immediate compliance or recission of Airservices' regulatory approval?
I read that Airservices Australia - Our Safety Policy is:
To fulfil our mission to be the preferred global partner for air traffic and related aviation services, we are focussed on keeping safety first.
We are committed to maintaining and enhancing our safety performance and systems, and ensuring that safety is our most important consideration. This commitment is outlined in our corporate Safety Management Policy.
We are committed to maintaining and enhancing our safety performance and systems, and ensuring that safety is our most important consideration. This commitment is outlined in our corporate Safety Management Policy.
mmaC
Last edited by make-mine-a-Coopers; 9th Feb 2009 at 18:51.
Couldn't agree more mate (both about the Coopers and the topic!)
I challenge CASA to grow a pair and show-cause AsA and its board.
Are you or are you not the SAFETY authority? Come on, do you job and get in there. CASA says TIBA is a safely managed mechanism - what utter bollocks. Who are you taking orders from, CASA?
I have been wittness to a complete and utter shambles of a TIBA in south-eastern NSW where the controllers did all they could to manage the situation. In that case, there was plenty of potential for a rather nasty incident. The CB approach person was scrolling out on his screen to try and pass traffic to jets closing at 1000kts. A southbound private jet nearly collected an A320 full of punters going north because they didn't understand the complexities of the airspace and the TIBA procedures around it.
I can tell you, the CASA observer was not 'satisified it is being managed safely'. More visibly shaken at the bunfight that TIBA is. But clearly his thoughts either weren't relayed or ignored.
So, what are you going to do CASA? If something goes wrong, it will be YOUR heads on the chopping block too. Think of Uberlingen and Milan.
This is not just a bunch of renegade ATCs looking for attention - this is about people's lives - SAFETY - the 'S' in your poorly chosen acronym.
Do something!
Domo Arigato,
Showa-Cho.
I challenge CASA to grow a pair and show-cause AsA and its board.
Are you or are you not the SAFETY authority? Come on, do you job and get in there. CASA says TIBA is a safely managed mechanism - what utter bollocks. Who are you taking orders from, CASA?
I have been wittness to a complete and utter shambles of a TIBA in south-eastern NSW where the controllers did all they could to manage the situation. In that case, there was plenty of potential for a rather nasty incident. The CB approach person was scrolling out on his screen to try and pass traffic to jets closing at 1000kts. A southbound private jet nearly collected an A320 full of punters going north because they didn't understand the complexities of the airspace and the TIBA procedures around it.
I can tell you, the CASA observer was not 'satisified it is being managed safely'. More visibly shaken at the bunfight that TIBA is. But clearly his thoughts either weren't relayed or ignored.
So, what are you going to do CASA? If something goes wrong, it will be YOUR heads on the chopping block too. Think of Uberlingen and Milan.
This is not just a bunch of renegade ATCs looking for attention - this is about people's lives - SAFETY - the 'S' in your poorly chosen acronym.
Do something!
Domo Arigato,
Showa-Cho.
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Sorry- I understand your frustration- but CASA can't rely on that clause. If they were truly independant, they could certainly attempt to have the intent of the clause enforced. But as it stands, AsA would just say that they do have enough controllers. Such as corporate ethics is in that place, they would weasil out of it by saying they have a different interpretation of the intent. AsA would claim that it's controllers choosing not to work that causes TIBA. In their view, your entitlement to have a day off is some archaic industrial anachronism which reduces rostering flexibility (as stated in their bargaining position). The clause doesnt say "enough personnel without using overtime", so the ethically challenged will use that. They have form; they've been to the IRC any number of times after "re-interpreting" clauses that seem crystal clear to us mere mortals (remember the contract controller case where even the normally compliant IRC had to ask "what part of "no controllers on contract " don't you understand?").
Remember- you work for an organisation that sees agreements, undertakings, contracts etc. as only applying one way, and an impediment to "doing business". I wouldn't be at all surprised if the whole ALM thing wasn't just a ruse to enable the introduction of contracts (or at the very least, a way to thwart industrial action).
Still, it wouldnt hurt if CASA at least tried. Maybe CASA needs an "economic imperitive"- after all, what's good for the goose.....?
Remember- you work for an organisation that sees agreements, undertakings, contracts etc. as only applying one way, and an impediment to "doing business". I wouldn't be at all surprised if the whole ALM thing wasn't just a ruse to enable the introduction of contracts (or at the very least, a way to thwart industrial action).
Still, it wouldnt hurt if CASA at least tried. Maybe CASA needs an "economic imperitive"- after all, what's good for the goose.....?
I think the trouble starts at Board level. It's going to need a clean sweep.
The reason the head office is in Canberra is because TFN sees his "customer" as the Minister, not the airlines. It's a typical public service outlook that I've seen before.
The reason the head office is in Canberra is because TFN sees his "customer" as the Minister, not the airlines. It's a typical public service outlook that I've seen before.
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Said meeting was at the request of the Minister!
Present CEO AsA, AsA chief ATC negotiator, Civil Air negotiation team, Civil Air President and ACTU president.
Outcome yet unknown
Present CEO AsA, AsA chief ATC negotiator, Civil Air negotiation team, Civil Air President and ACTU president.
Outcome yet unknown
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Yes Old Matey he does.
BUT he doesn't negotiate it. He approves it!
There is a big difference!
He, as the minister may be asked in the process, by the board of AsA to have more latitude, or he may knock back a proposal but he does not negotiate the detail.
Even in arbitration he doesn't decide the detail. These are our conditions of employment which can be described if necessary separately from the annual increases or changes to the existing salary scale.
To simply say that these negotiations and the people present do not matter is overly simplistic and a distortion of the process.
BUT he doesn't negotiate it. He approves it!
There is a big difference!
He, as the minister may be asked in the process, by the board of AsA to have more latitude, or he may knock back a proposal but he does not negotiate the detail.
Even in arbitration he doesn't decide the detail. These are our conditions of employment which can be described if necessary separately from the annual increases or changes to the existing salary scale.
To simply say that these negotiations and the people present do not matter is overly simplistic and a distortion of the process.
Realism please...
Think about it from Fat ? Big Tony's point of view...
If he intervenes and it gets worse everyone will remember him and not TFN??
Does anyone think it can get worse?? Yes!
Let's face it as someone said recently Hell's fury is nothing compared to a NSW ALP Right hack scorned in front of his mates and especially KEV the QLDer!??
And as we know if we all got 10% PA tomorrow there would still be staff shortages for months....and then the penny would drop that it was not an industrial issue at all....but by then its too late..and all the journos have moved on to sharemarket dropping another 50% in March and the Bushfire Royal Commission which will quite understandably go on for months.
So if Big Tony even thinks 5% that its industrial action and not complete failure of corporate governance he will be hands off until he is essentially forced to act??
Who wants to be the first KEV07 minister to be sacked?
If he intervenes and it gets worse everyone will remember him and not TFN??
Does anyone think it can get worse?? Yes!
Let's face it as someone said recently Hell's fury is nothing compared to a NSW ALP Right hack scorned in front of his mates and especially KEV the QLDer!??
And as we know if we all got 10% PA tomorrow there would still be staff shortages for months....and then the penny would drop that it was not an industrial issue at all....but by then its too late..and all the journos have moved on to sharemarket dropping another 50% in March and the Bushfire Royal Commission which will quite understandably go on for months.
So if Big Tony even thinks 5% that its industrial action and not complete failure of corporate governance he will be hands off until he is essentially forced to act??
Who wants to be the first KEV07 minister to be sacked?
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Latest from "The Australian"
Air controllers vote on strike | The Australian
IF this goes to industrial action, I'd suggest that Civil Air get their side of the story out into the mainstream press.
Perception is reality, and I'm certain that you want the public and the media on your side.
DIVOSH!
IF this goes to industrial action, I'd suggest that Civil Air get their side of the story out into the mainstream press.
Perception is reality, and I'm certain that you want the public and the media on your side.
DIVOSH!
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Hi Griffo,
Getting the mainstream on side could be a lost cause.
As an avowed conspiracy theorist, I think that radical industrial action is what they want. It would sell papers.
Never discount self-interest. These guys might seem to be running the management line, but at the end of the day they want something sensational to write about.
Hence, while we all sit here and shake our heads as to why the bleedingly obvious is not obvious to them, maybe it is, but it doesn't suit the purposes of 'filing a good story'.
As I said, never discount self-interest in any quarter.
Getting the mainstream on side could be a lost cause.
As an avowed conspiracy theorist, I think that radical industrial action is what they want. It would sell papers.
Never discount self-interest. These guys might seem to be running the management line, but at the end of the day they want something sensational to write about.
Hence, while we all sit here and shake our heads as to why the bleedingly obvious is not obvious to them, maybe it is, but it doesn't suit the purposes of 'filing a good story'.
As I said, never discount self-interest in any quarter.
Any form of ATC industrial action will cause issues to the public. This is pretty much a given. What exactly do we/ATC need the public on side for? Accept that bad press will come now and don't give it another thought. The Civil Air position is reasonable and completely legitimate. Don't sweat it.
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OMG!!
Plazbot, with respect, you're being naive.
That may be so, but if you let ASA control the spin, no-one will ever know. In times of crisis (i.e. when vital infrastructure is threatened) politicians respond to public (and press) opinion. You guys want that opinion to be on your side.
In the article, the Opposition transport minister doesn't even have a grip on your dispute. Why aren't you guys getting the Libs on side?
The Hawke govt did some very dirty deeds (allegedly) around 19 1/2 years ago in a strike that threatened "vital infrastructure". If the current government finds itself under similar pressure, what makes you think that they wont do something similar? Remember Ronald Reagan? Don't be mistaken to think that it can't happen here!
IMHO, if you guys want to take a course of action that will result in more airspace disruptions, then you want EVERYONE to know who's at fault (i.e. ASA).
I hope you're right!
The Civil Air position is reasonable and completely legitimate
In the article, the Opposition transport minister doesn't even have a grip on your dispute. Why aren't you guys getting the Libs on side?
The Hawke govt did some very dirty deeds (allegedly) around 19 1/2 years ago in a strike that threatened "vital infrastructure". If the current government finds itself under similar pressure, what makes you think that they wont do something similar? Remember Ronald Reagan? Don't be mistaken to think that it can't happen here!
IMHO, if you guys want to take a course of action that will result in more airspace disruptions, then you want EVERYONE to know who's at fault (i.e. ASA).
Don't sweat it.
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Plaz, I am not involved and I was not suggesting that anybody "sweat it". However, as my sympathies lie with you guys, all I was suggesting was, possibly, the lack of good press may be due to more than ignorance.
From a personal viewpoint and sniffing the wind, and it's your union's call not mine, if you go more than an overtime ban you are going to get sh@t-canned.
The public, that you apparently don't need on side, elect governments. If you fail to manage the perceptions then you risk a backlash.
From a personal viewpoint and sniffing the wind, and it's your union's call not mine, if you go more than an overtime ban you are going to get sh@t-canned.
The public, that you apparently don't need on side, elect governments. If you fail to manage the perceptions then you risk a backlash.
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Civil air has repeatedly issued media releases trying to get our side of the story out.
Civil Air Australia - Media Release
Thursday, 15 January 2009 Media Release: Air Traffic Controllers Pressured to Work when Sick
Tuesday, 23 December 2008 CHRISTMAS INDUSTRIAL ACTION RULED OUT
Thursday, 16 October 2008 International Day Of The Air Traffic Controller
Monday, 13 October 2008 AIRSERVICES SEEKS MANDATORY OVERTIME PROVISIONS
Wednesday, 08 October 2008
Media Release: Delays at Sydney Airport
Wednesday, 10 September 2008
Media Release: An End to the Controller Shortage?
Monday, 01 September 2008
Media Release: Air Traffic Controller shortage fixed?
Tuesday, 26 August 2008
Media Release: Can't retain, can't recruit .. and now can't train
Monday, 04 August 2008
Media Release - Air Traffic Control & Airspace Closures
Tuesday, 29 July 2008 Media Release - A response to Airservices Australia
Saturday, 07 June 2008 Media Release - ATC Collective Agreement Negotiations
But by and large, these are ignored or quoted out of context
I am fully aware that governments bow to public pressure/opinion, but am at a loss as to how to get the media to more than just regurgitate TFN's PR spin.
Civil Air Australia - Media Release
Thursday, 15 January 2009 Media Release: Air Traffic Controllers Pressured to Work when Sick
Tuesday, 23 December 2008 CHRISTMAS INDUSTRIAL ACTION RULED OUT
Thursday, 16 October 2008 International Day Of The Air Traffic Controller
Monday, 13 October 2008 AIRSERVICES SEEKS MANDATORY OVERTIME PROVISIONS
Wednesday, 08 October 2008
Media Release: Delays at Sydney Airport
Wednesday, 10 September 2008
Media Release: An End to the Controller Shortage?
Monday, 01 September 2008
Media Release: Air Traffic Controller shortage fixed?
Tuesday, 26 August 2008
Media Release: Can't retain, can't recruit .. and now can't train
Monday, 04 August 2008
Media Release - Air Traffic Control & Airspace Closures
Tuesday, 29 July 2008 Media Release - A response to Airservices Australia
Saturday, 07 June 2008 Media Release - ATC Collective Agreement Negotiations
But by and large, these are ignored or quoted out of context
I am fully aware that governments bow to public pressure/opinion, but am at a loss as to how to get the media to more than just regurgitate TFN's PR spin.
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There is no threatened ATC strike. Industrial action was not "called off" over Christmas - none was approved, nor could any have been legal at that time anyway.
Where does all this talk of strike coming from? When was the last full blown ATC strike in Australia?
I liken it to King Kong -
He is fine in his own environment, doing what he does best:
Some have decided to portray him as a monster and evoke fear and hatred for either public sensation or for personal gain:
This is how ASA would like him to behave:
So that he can finally be treated the way they think he should be treated:
Leave him alone. Give him the tools, resources and support to do his job the best he can.
Where does all this talk of strike coming from? When was the last full blown ATC strike in Australia?
I liken it to King Kong -
He is fine in his own environment, doing what he does best:
Some have decided to portray him as a monster and evoke fear and hatred for either public sensation or for personal gain:
This is how ASA would like him to behave:
So that he can finally be treated the way they think he should be treated:
Leave him alone. Give him the tools, resources and support to do his job the best he can.
Last edited by Here to Help; 11th Feb 2009 at 10:30.
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Ombudsman if CASA and DITRDLG will not act
If CASA or DITRDLG fail to discharge their statutory functions the there is always the option of referring matters to the Commonwealth Ombudsman's office.
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DNS
Jeez DNS - read between the lines, will ya? I'd checked out, but couldn't resist one last look. What strategy goes over better?? One that says you only want legitimate time with your family on the days off you've worked for, and therefore, it's a matter of family over work? Or, leading with the chin and going for a full blown strike that allows you to be portrayed as a bunch of self-interested thugs??
I'm not arguing, or questioning; I'm agreeing fer chrissake!! Spending time with your family and having a decent break (that you are entitled to) is a legitimate reason to say "enough's enough". The point I am trying to make is that you don't have to do anything more and you can still have a patch of the moral high ground, prove the point (yes, I can imagine the effect, given the current NOTAMS), and not give the spin department a free shot.
Once again, we are in violent agreement. I am just suggesting that you don't have to blow your own balls off to win game, set and match.
Regardless; good luck and I hope you and your collegues eventually have your lives returned to some degree of normalcy without having to develop a taste for sherbet and camels.
I'm not arguing, or questioning; I'm agreeing fer chrissake!! Spending time with your family and having a decent break (that you are entitled to) is a legitimate reason to say "enough's enough". The point I am trying to make is that you don't have to do anything more and you can still have a patch of the moral high ground, prove the point (yes, I can imagine the effect, given the current NOTAMS), and not give the spin department a free shot.
Once again, we are in violent agreement. I am just suggesting that you don't have to blow your own balls off to win game, set and match.
Regardless; good luck and I hope you and your collegues eventually have your lives returned to some degree of normalcy without having to develop a taste for sherbet and camels.