1989- Pilots dispute 19 years on

[Knumb Knuts]

Heroes or Scabs?

The internet and Prune would have made no difference to the outcome. I think it was Kipling who said something like: never take on anyone who buys printer's ink by the barrel. In this case - the Dirty Digger, friend of the Silver Bodgie, the little cherub (Sec. of the ACTU), and Ansett business partner of the Hungarian puppeteer, now deceased and explaining himself to the big jet jock in the sky - perhaps.

[Pinky the pilot]

The thing I remember most is my hate for the the fat dude and the bodgie, for the decimaction they caused within the ranks of my friends for their own sorry and pointless gain. One is dead, the other deserves to be.

My feelings exactly!!:

I am sorry, but the manipulation of people I really cared about for ones own gain does not garner one tiny bit of favour with me.

Regrettably, this type of behaviour always seems to manifest itself in the corridors of political power.

God bless you all - on both sides. Heroes and scabs are not true titles and should never be used. Dreamers and Realists are more acceptable, as neither group was really wrong. The picture cards had been taken out of the deck before the first hand was dealt.

Hear Hear!

The only problem was the manipulation from above.

Lord Acton's observation re power corrupting applied!

At least one of those involved is now below. I will have a beer when the other departs.

I shall open a bottle of the best bubbly I can afford, and drink the lot by myself in one session!

Thank you Eastwest Loco for the best comment I have ever read on this subject in these pages!

[Teal]

he'll probably be cremated

You'd have to stand well back - he'd be 100% proof..

[teresa green]

I sincerely hope none of you blokes EVER have to go thru such a thing again. Imagine landing in CBR and being told to get off the A/C and have it locked up. Imagine having to drive back to MEL with the F/O not knowing what the F$#K. Imagine standing in front of your young family (aged 10 to 2 months) with the sweat running down your back as it suddenly hits you, you are no longer employed, imagine if you were like me, joining the airlines aged 19 and knew nothing else, imagine working as a brickies aid like I did so I could pay the bills, ( at least I got fit and learnt some Italian) imagine having to say goodbye to family, friends and pets, imagine having to take your old labrador dog to be put down, because she was to old to go to anyone else, (and she thought she was going for a trip in the car) we cried for a week. Imagine packing up your family, saying goodbye to much loved grandparents, (one we never saw again) imagine your kids crying as they said goodbye to their school and friends, imagine lying in bed and wishing you could put a nice clean bullet right between the eyes of two people, (unnamed) You can guess. I still get a gut contraction everytime I see or hear one of them, How the hell did the bloke sleep at night? How would you like to hear about mates that topped themselves, mates that ended up alcoholics, marriage breakups, and the battle between scabs and those that were not. No, whatever the politics of it all, the human pain and suffering was off the clock. I hope it NEVER happens again to any one of you. You would have all met one of them, you cannot miss them, blokes with years of experience, flying around as second officers, blokes who would have more hours than the skipper, blokes whose lives were absolutely buggered. Don't ever let it happen again I repeat, stick together, be realistic, support one another, stand united, and think of the big picture, and don't ever let the bastards destroy you.

[SIUYA]

Pinky.........

I shall open a bottle of the best bubbly I can afford, and drink the lot by myself in one session!

Don't worry Pinky, I'll buy 5 more SP brown stubbies and add it to your one bottle (stubby) to make a 6-pack, and we'll both enjoy them!

[tail wheel]

"Unfortunately the b*stard refuses to die. Even when he does, he'll probably be cremated to deny us the party."

Doubt it. It would take the Firies a week to put the fire out!

[Capt Wally]

'TG' it was an ugly mess for sure am glad I wasn't reliant on the aviation flying game for financial support but some of yr words .................stick together, be realistic, support one another, stand united, and think of the big picture, and don't ever let the bastards destroy you. ..................would have been exactly what was being thought of when it all hit the fan & hence the strike went ahead!
I doubt very much we shall ever see that level of desperation agiain here in the flying business am sure ALL have learnt something from it (but not everything) but Aussies won't take it (poor T&C's etc) lying down, next time (if there ever is a next time) it must be done smarter, then yr words will fit better.


CW



CW

[Pinky the pilot]

SUIYA, I shall take you up on that!! And it may be the half a bottle of good Aussie red I've had this evening that makes me propose the following........

When that person whose name I will not mention finally does shuffle off this mortal coil, to explain his actions to the God he does not believe in, why don't all of us arrange a get together and have an absolute blast to celebrate his demise!!

Is there a seconder to the motion?

[Marauder]

Pinky Old Mate:

Yes. Your place or mine.

[teresa green]

Sadly Capt.Wally it was not the case. Perhaps as has been stated before, we did not have Pprune or the net to talk amongst ourselves, so the left hand did not always know what the right hand was doing. And without going into politics, Dear Leader was not the bloke to lead us. The likes of great minds and the ability of great leadership like Capt. Buck Brooksbank and Capt. Dick Holt would have seen a different outcome, (on this most of us agree) these blokes could charm a grapevine over a fence, and leave with a pot of money, and the ink dry on the paperwork before their victims had any idea they had been had. Sadly they were both outraged that all the work they had done to get Pilots a fair wage, and conditions at that time (it was they who started the bid system) go down the gurgler they walked away. We were NOT united, we did not all pull together, and some saw it as a chance to climb the ladder real quick, there were plenty of brown nosers in there. Hence the saying "united we stand divided we fall". That is the reason I made those comments.

[Phlap1]

I too will drink to the budgies demise.
But I can't help recall a statement by an old 89er at the back of an AOA
meeting around 1992. The president finished saying " if we stick together
we cannot lose" the old Ansett Checkie mumbled " where have I heard this
before"
It was Hawke and company who provided the circumstances, the
heroes who crossed the line were the true villains.
The same thing happened in CX early 1990's, some guys in the AOA
basically crossed the line by being gutless and not doing a damn
thing when contract compliance was biting.
The AOA remains a joke to this day.

[Knumb Knuts]

The facts - just the facts St. G & the D

Terry the G - Dick (Holt) retired in 1978 and had no dealings with the poor little rich Hungarian listhper who raided in 1979. Brooksbank was around and you can be assured his sage advice was taken. That's history. If you think the outcome would have been any different - that's c**p. Sorry mate.
Dunno about this year - but next there will be a major PU at a venue TBA.

[Hoofharted]

Prior to August 1989, there was a real union in place that would have put a stop to such things before they got off the ground - to everyone's benefit (except the cheap foreign labour and the 'lower costs at any cost' management).

"to everyone's benefit" funny that. I recall being a new CPL at the time just starting to make my way in G.A when suddenly a stream of those who resigned from the "big end of town" came down to a rather large and established G.A operator and displaced those of us who had previously been receiving regular work. Ofcourse us youngsters were given the lecture about how being displaced was "to everyone's benefit", but somehow that didn't help with the loan repayments. And NO, I wasn't a scab, I chose to move overseas and try my luck there. So even after having been screwed by you I still supported your damned action.

So don't lecture me about having a selective memory because I remember all too well how it happened. It's just strange how the "poor me" brigade have a selective memory when it comes to recalling just how their own decisions screwed those of us just trying to get a toehold in the industry.

So now go ahead and heap sh1t on me if you must, it wont make much of a difference cause you already did that back in 89.

[ACMS]

Gee Hoof sorry we let you down, ruin your career did we?

It wasn't intentional on our behalf, but it sure was intentional by the Govt and the Airlines to ruin our careers.

Grow up.

[Hoofharted]

ACMS I would suggest that it is you sir who should "grow up". You made a decision supposedly as an adult and now refuse to take responsibility for it. You refuse to see what ramifications your decision had on many other people, instead choosing to blame all and sundry for how your life turned out and craving sympathy for it. Take responsibility for your own choices!! After all, your T&C's where so dreadful weren't they? Pilots tending farms, running businesses, attending university degrees in their spare time. Ring any bells? Why should my heart bleed for you when you did not give a "flying fvck" for those of us you put out of work?

Gee Hoof sorry we let you down, ruin your career did we?

Your comment stinks of self-serving, self-absorbed arrogance which was probably when all is said and done, the major contributing factor to your loss.

No ACMS, you made your bed so now you lie in it. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you may find peace of mind.

[Capt Wally]

I feel for the likes of 'hoof' because I too was in the same boat as he in a way. Fortunetly I was gamefully employed in another industry but 'was' working towards greater things to fly full time when the floodgates opened. I too was at the time angry that a lot of guys from the top came down to our level & effectively flooded the market but have since understood that the hiring Co's where the ones that shti in our young faces, not the poor guys seeking work like the rest of us plebs at the time. Big bird aviation now is a diff ball game, it was once an elite job, sought after & well respected by all who wished they could fly also, now it's just a job that a lot of pilots can't wait to get away from & do other things they like.


CW

[Sid Departure]

Well come the 20th anniversary next year, I intend to put all aside and visit Sir Pete's final resting place. I simply wish to share with him a glass of fine Australian red wine and toast our differences.


However his glass will initially be filtered through my kidneys.

[Fantome]

Knumb Knuts

"The facts - just the facts St. G & the D
Terry the G - Dick (Holt) retired in 1978 and had no dealings with the poor little rich Hungarian listhper who raided in 1979. Brooksbank was around and you can be assured his sage advice was taken. That's history. If you think the outcome would have been any different - that's c**p. Sorry mate.
Dunno about this year - but next there will be a major PU at a venue TBA."

KK - Dick too gave sage advice to the troops '89-'90 but it was too late. Those open letters that he wrote, (paying himself for prominent space in the national daily), were a reiteration of his credo, his unwaivering dedication to the standing of the profession and his lifelong concern for it's members. Many times when the stakes were highest he walked the fine line between giving the membership his all and causing air travelers the least pain.

Rather than dance on grave(s) next year, maybe a trawl through the record for a good clutch of pithy observations from the centre and the sidelines would be a better recourse than more bile. "Don't talk about the war"?
Why not? There will always be lessons to learn, conclusions to be drawn. Opinions to consider. And opportunities to say out loud, "Good health!"

(Another fine line is the one the bodgie walks all the time - that thin fine line between bull**** and charisma. As John Clarke once had it "Rob, Rob, Roberty Rob, James Lee Hawke MP, Took great care of his image, For it was plain to see, If he was noticed talking to blokes, Whose boats did well on the sea, Millions of voters would fail to notice, The blokes were charging a fee.")

[Casper]

In the case of Bob Hawke, his action of laying at the feet of his friend (Sir Peter Abeles) the office of Prime Minister was unprecedented and should greatly disturb all Australians, irrespective of their political persuasion.

This was clearly a corrupt abuse of power and should be the subject of a Royal Commission in its own right.
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Hear! Hear!

[fugitive]

fugitive

At the end of the day,the result would have been the same.The people who owned the company were only there to do an Allan Bond(remember Bell Resources)
They took over an asset rich company,Ansett,tossed the boss Sir Reg out then sold off the farm.Ansett eventually went under with $3.6 billion debt.
They eventually flogged it off to Air New Zealand with all its debt;I wonder who they paid off to complete that deal?

The union appealed to Howardhe told them to bugger off,but then his agenda eventually became obvious years later.Contract labour,except for pollies of course.
He used the laws enacted by Hawke to use on the wharfies.What a larf,I remember them abusing us outside the ABC in Brisbane because we were demonstating against the bodgie.
Howard did the same to them years later using the Hawke labor Govt laws.Union bashing was always the way.Look at it today,executives paying themselves tens of millions of dollars while denying engineers a measly 4% increase in their award.

Dixon is using the claim to bring in scab labour and it is a labor Govt again that is allowing him to do it.
Dixon says he has to look after the shareholders,wot about the workers,they create the wealth.
By the way,he is probably p%$$#d off that that sale of QF fell thru and the loss of the big payouts to him and his fellow board members.
What happens to the staff in Cairns,will they be compensated by QF`s decision to close the base,I think not.

Good luck to all,unfortunately without a union,this is the Airline system today.