HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies
"Expectation management".
Remember that not everyone posting on this forum and proffering "sympathy" is on your side.
The guys you work for don't deserve you and your skills.
Just a lateral thought...there are enormously rewarding opportunities for engineers in the mining industry. Minor variation of your specialist skills will set you up for life. Make a few calls to the mining folks and check.
Remember that not everyone posting on this forum and proffering "sympathy" is on your side.
The guys you work for don't deserve you and your skills.
Just a lateral thought...there are enormously rewarding opportunities for engineers in the mining industry. Minor variation of your specialist skills will set you up for life. Make a few calls to the mining folks and check.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SYDNEY
Age: 64
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
North Steyne
You have been made redundant for a reason.think about it!!The company only lets people go because they are incompetent or are causing trouble!(unless you are over 50!) Where does your face fit in????Im glad you are supporting us, we need all the help we can get.Dont scab there are plenty of contracts overseas.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SYDNEY
Age: 64
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lordofthewings
I i think you shoyuld put down the crack pipe that you have been smoking!! Lvl 13 is the maximum of our substandrd pay scale,its reserved for radio morts and super LAME's.I am a Lvl 4 and all i can hope for is a 5% pay rise for everyone. Blokes like me have been through a collapsed airline and deserve more for our experience in this sh
t pay system.
t pay system.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If management stopped work for four hours,who would notice?
If all the LAMEs stopped work for four hours,who would notice?
Management could never go on stike because at the end of the day,the whole operation could continie for days without their input,and still run efficiently and smoothly,as proved by the Managers Love-In recently.
And that was MH's point in his letter thanking all those who stepped up to cover the operation.
If all the LAMEs stopped work for four hours,who would notice?
Management could never go on stike because at the end of the day,the whole operation could continie for days without their input,and still run efficiently and smoothly,as proved by the Managers Love-In recently.
And that was MH's point in his letter thanking all those who stepped up to cover the operation.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: n.s.w
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
will the 18 break ranks ?
this could be the first divide and conquer technic.
As for across the ditch lames, come on over.we will show you the auzzie hakka, it normal starts with a thong (jandle to you bro)slap to the forehead
this could be the first divide and conquer technic.
As for across the ditch lames, come on over.we will show you the auzzie hakka, it normal starts with a thong (jandle to you bro)slap to the forehead
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Age: 57
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was nearly Dux of my year in '89, I don't think I'm incompetent and I was never a trouble maker yet I still got let go. Oh, I was under 40 at the time also.
I was a Radio 'Mort' and with 3 types I was only lvl 6.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qantas plan set to anger engineers
Scott Rochfort SMH
December 27, 2007
Qantas is set to further anger its maintenance staff by unveiling "contingency" plans to offset threatened industrial action by its 1700 aircraft engineers.
The airline is expected to detail as early as today plans that could include rescheduling flights and hiring non-union licensed aircraft maintenance engineers.
Qantas has declined to comment on speculation it was using the Irish labour hire firm Direct Personnel to offer six-month, $100,000 contracts to engineering staff made redundant in Sydney last year to act as strikebreakers.
This is more than double the salary its engineers receive.
Positions have also been advertised on the job website Resumedomain.com for engineers with heavy-jet experience.
"Successful applicants will be rewarded with an attractive salary package to ensure we attract the best," the ad says. There are reports a labour hire firm has resorted to visiting the homes of former engineers to entice them back to Qantas.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has warned it will begin industrial action on January 9 unless Qantas agrees to its 5 per cent a year pay rise claim.
The action, which could include four-hour stoppages, will mean no one will be available to check Qantas flights for take-off or oversee maintenance checks on aircraft at critical times. Qantas has conceded it could be forced to reschedule most of its flights.
The attractive pay offer to former staff is likely to enrage the airline's engineering staff, 87 per cent of whom voted in favour of industrial action last week. As for the reported $100,000 packages, the union's federal president, Paul Cousins, said his members "are going to be absolutely furious".
The airline fuelled anger among staff last week when it announced plans to establish its first heavy maintenance base in Asia in partnership with Malaysia Airlines. Qantas said the new base would serve only as an "overflow" when its bases in Australia were booked out.
Mr Cousins questioned why an airline holding out on paying its staff an extra 5 per cent, or $4000 a year, was prepared to pay $100,000 to non-union engineers for six months. Qantas has a 3 per cent rise on the table.
"We've got no doubt that Qantas has supplied the list [of former staff] to this Direct Personnel firm so they can call the guys who left," Mr Cousins said. Qantas laid off 480 maintenance and engineering staff when it closed its Sydney Boeing 747 heavy maintenance base in May last year.
It is also suspected Qantas has asked Air New Zealand for lists of engineers made redundant.
Scott Rochfort SMH
December 27, 2007
Qantas is set to further anger its maintenance staff by unveiling "contingency" plans to offset threatened industrial action by its 1700 aircraft engineers.
The airline is expected to detail as early as today plans that could include rescheduling flights and hiring non-union licensed aircraft maintenance engineers.
Qantas has declined to comment on speculation it was using the Irish labour hire firm Direct Personnel to offer six-month, $100,000 contracts to engineering staff made redundant in Sydney last year to act as strikebreakers.
This is more than double the salary its engineers receive.
Positions have also been advertised on the job website Resumedomain.com for engineers with heavy-jet experience.
"Successful applicants will be rewarded with an attractive salary package to ensure we attract the best," the ad says. There are reports a labour hire firm has resorted to visiting the homes of former engineers to entice them back to Qantas.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has warned it will begin industrial action on January 9 unless Qantas agrees to its 5 per cent a year pay rise claim.
The action, which could include four-hour stoppages, will mean no one will be available to check Qantas flights for take-off or oversee maintenance checks on aircraft at critical times. Qantas has conceded it could be forced to reschedule most of its flights.
The attractive pay offer to former staff is likely to enrage the airline's engineering staff, 87 per cent of whom voted in favour of industrial action last week. As for the reported $100,000 packages, the union's federal president, Paul Cousins, said his members "are going to be absolutely furious".
The airline fuelled anger among staff last week when it announced plans to establish its first heavy maintenance base in Asia in partnership with Malaysia Airlines. Qantas said the new base would serve only as an "overflow" when its bases in Australia were booked out.
Mr Cousins questioned why an airline holding out on paying its staff an extra 5 per cent, or $4000 a year, was prepared to pay $100,000 to non-union engineers for six months. Qantas has a 3 per cent rise on the table.
"We've got no doubt that Qantas has supplied the list [of former staff] to this Direct Personnel firm so they can call the guys who left," Mr Cousins said. Qantas laid off 480 maintenance and engineering staff when it closed its Sydney Boeing 747 heavy maintenance base in May last year.
It is also suspected Qantas has asked Air New Zealand for lists of engineers made redundant.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oz
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The airline fuelled anger among staff last week when it announced plans to establish its first heavy maintenance base in Asia in partnership with Malaysia Airlines. Qantas said the new base would serve only as an "overflow" when its bases in Australia were booked out.
It's the Line one debarcle all over again. I wont get into the argument of outsourcing/offshoring, but if you are going to do it for gods sake make sure there is someone with capacity out there to take up the slack!!!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is Chris Corrigan (sp) either on the QF board now or a consultant of some description? He was lined up to be...just wondering if thats happened yet.
Be an interesting insight into the workings of the QF evil empire.
Be an interesting insight into the workings of the QF evil empire.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Age: 57
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps it should also be pointed out that most QF LAMEs(Lvls 3-7) get paid less or equivalent to JetStar or Virgin LAMEs but sign for more than 1 type.
Of course there are some QF LAMEs in the upper band(10-13)who do get paid well,but it should be remembered that they are only being paid what QF wanted them to be paid.If QF didnt want or need those people trained to that degree,then they would not have compensated them to those higher levels of pay.
Maybe Joe public should read in the paper that QF LAMEs are only trying to bring themselves closer to their industry counterparts instead of being left behind on what would be considered third world wages for a highly trained positioned such as a LAME.
Opps......thats right......they do pay LAMEs the same or better in some third world countries,than here in Oz,and generally pay less tax as well.Maybe the government should think about where guys will spend their tax dollars if this is allowed to escalate and alot of guys are forced overseas.
Of course there are some QF LAMEs in the upper band(10-13)who do get paid well,but it should be remembered that they are only being paid what QF wanted them to be paid.If QF didnt want or need those people trained to that degree,then they would not have compensated them to those higher levels of pay.
Maybe Joe public should read in the paper that QF LAMEs are only trying to bring themselves closer to their industry counterparts instead of being left behind on what would be considered third world wages for a highly trained positioned such as a LAME.
Opps......thats right......they do pay LAMEs the same or better in some third world countries,than here in Oz,and generally pay less tax as well.Maybe the government should think about where guys will spend their tax dollars if this is allowed to escalate and alot of guys are forced overseas.
Last edited by Long Bay Mauler; 27th Dec 2007 at 00:48. Reason: last minute update
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From today's media clips
As the January 9th date approaches, reports are appearing that Qantas is now offering $100,000 or USD86,500 for those willing to sign on for six-month ‘strikebreaker’ contracts.
The amount is approximately double that of current Qantas engineers.
Qantas is said to have approached current engineers in both New Zealand and former employees in Australia, cited news outlets from both countries.
The fully unionised Air New Zealand engineers are expected to turn down the lucrative offer, while a similar response is expected of those 400 engineers made redundant by Qantas last year who were also reported to have been given the offer.
Currently the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) is requesting their annual pay rise increase 2% from the current 3% to 5%.
“We think our 5% is not only reasonable but something that all people in the company should be taking,” said Paul Cousins, ALAEA President, had previously said.
He more recently indicated his disbelief that Qantas would hold out on paying exiting staff an extra $4000 a year, and at the same time would shell out $100,000 for six-month contractors.
As the January 9th date approaches, reports are appearing that Qantas is now offering $100,000 or USD86,500 for those willing to sign on for six-month ‘strikebreaker’ contracts.
The amount is approximately double that of current Qantas engineers.
Qantas is said to have approached current engineers in both New Zealand and former employees in Australia, cited news outlets from both countries.
The fully unionised Air New Zealand engineers are expected to turn down the lucrative offer, while a similar response is expected of those 400 engineers made redundant by Qantas last year who were also reported to have been given the offer.
Currently the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) is requesting their annual pay rise increase 2% from the current 3% to 5%.
“We think our 5% is not only reasonable but something that all people in the company should be taking,” said Paul Cousins, ALAEA President, had previously said.
He more recently indicated his disbelief that Qantas would hold out on paying exiting staff an extra $4000 a year, and at the same time would shell out $100,000 for six-month contractors.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Decision Time.
I think all LAME's should take a very deep breath, open your eyes and make a rational decision. If the decision is to fight this, you need to be prepared to fight to the death of your employment. That is a real possibility and you must accept this at the start.
If QF decides to take us on this time around, you know they've made a decision to go all the way. There will be no half measures like allowing LAME's to have 4 hour stoppages and bans. They have the advantage because they know how well the members have stuck together in the past. Solidarity has not been one of our strong points.
Consider how you'll survive with no income for an undetermined period of time. Are you or can you place yourself into this position and survive?
Prepare for the worst before leaping and we may come out the other side.
Good luck to all.
If QF decides to take us on this time around, you know they've made a decision to go all the way. There will be no half measures like allowing LAME's to have 4 hour stoppages and bans. They have the advantage because they know how well the members have stuck together in the past. Solidarity has not been one of our strong points.
Consider how you'll survive with no income for an undetermined period of time. Are you or can you place yourself into this position and survive?
Prepare for the worst before leaping and we may come out the other side.
Good luck to all.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Age: 57
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strike breaker T & C's
$2 300 per week for six months. Payment from the day you sign.
$40 000 on completion of the contract.
Apart from a few training days catching up on CAR 214 training (read and sign stuff), there would be no requirement to work until the ALAEA members went on strike (or were locked out).
As was posted on another thread - Newport aviation is the company that is hiring the strikebreakers for QF. The head of Newport is the bloke who used to own Forstaff.
I can't see why QF would go to all this trouble for an OT and higher duty ban (with the odd 4 hr stop work meeting).
They have no intention of negotiating in good faith. The ALAEA executive need to spin some PR on this to show that QF is the one spoiling for a fight!!
$2 300 per week for six months. Payment from the day you sign.
$40 000 on completion of the contract.
Apart from a few training days catching up on CAR 214 training (read and sign stuff), there would be no requirement to work until the ALAEA members went on strike (or were locked out).
As was posted on another thread - Newport aviation is the company that is hiring the strikebreakers for QF. The head of Newport is the bloke who used to own Forstaff.
I can't see why QF would go to all this trouble for an OT and higher duty ban (with the odd 4 hr stop work meeting).
They have no intention of negotiating in good faith. The ALAEA executive need to spin some PR on this to show that QF is the one spoiling for a fight!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Merged: QF LAME Industrial Action (KEEP IT CLEAN)
Industrial action is for losers............
thanks, now i have your attention.
Why do we need to take industrial action?
The majority of us don't really need the 3% or 5%........hey.... we seem to have a plethora of LAMEs willing to do overtime!!!!!
The real reason we want to have the action is to stick it up the company because we're FED UP.
Sure we're overdue a payrise, and local and senior management are receiving between 8% and 60% payrises p.a.
Being LAMEs, generally we're a no nonsense bunch,
however we've been taking management on its word for too long.
To give a basic synopsis of the situation......
Qantas management have been playing us.
There seems to be a sentiment within management ranks, that people in offices make an airline work, not people on the front line.
Oh and also......
If you don't hold a degree, well....you're not really that smart are you.....
Too many times we have been told to "suck it up" - "times are dire" - "we're in it for our survival" - "our competitors are streets ahead"
Let me say this.............
"BULL****" and once again if you're hard of hearing..... "BULL****"
Qantas is a protected species
The only thing that would put Qantas's neck on the block would be a Hull loss, with the consequent loss of life and confidence.
Why don't we play it smart,
lets face it, the only thing that affects what our salary is our worth to our employer,
We have a tool at our disposal that would not require industrial action,
yet would enhance our position in the eyes of the travelling public and our worth to our employer.
This tool is diligence combined with intelligence
I propose we begin our "non industrial action" by....
Carrying out maintenance totally in accordance with the PPM / AMM
Transit, SA1, A, C, D, checks could be totally bound up in procedural red tape,
Let us use the Qantas PPM to the letter.
When you approach a Qantas aircraft,
don't ask....will it be ok for the next sector?
instead say....this condition needs further investigation...
and Don't just say it....DO IT.......
Remember..legally we are not required to get the aircraft out on time....only out Safely.
Simple things that are normally overlooked because of time constraints should now be investigated as a matter of course.
We all know there are many things that are let slide due to time constraints, lets pick up our game and make every punch count.
Soaking up manhours.....under the present conditions should be the priority of every LAME.
It could be writing every action or defect requiring attention into the appropriate medium, be it a techlog or an additional work, or a DRR,
It could be ensuring correct tooling is used, not making do with workaround situations.
It could be making sure you get your mealbreak after 5.5 hours not at the end of your shift.
It could be not making yourself available for overtime, whatever the case may be
Soaking up time is what the online techlog was designed to do! Use it!!!!!!
Imagine having a well paid super experienced engineer completing a job well done then assigning him to data entry tasks for an hour or two!!!!!!
These actions will set a standard and establish a minimum line in the sand for us.
It will also allow a framework for the paperwork trail back to the finance department showing the true worth of a Lame, and therefore to the upper management.
Another benefit to us and also the company would be that the aircraft will have greater servicability rates once the initial latent defects are cleared.
These actions.... if carried out by the majority of Lames, would send a strong signal to the "powers that be"
that we are worth a payrise,
that we are not an expendable commodity,
that we are above reproach,
that there is no contingency,
that you cannot walk away from the mess you have made,
That - You will respect us whether you like it or not.
It will be a hard slog if the challenge is taken up,
We will have the usual few who are recalcitrant and self serving, seeing opportunity at the expense of the boys holding the line.
Let's not be dulled by their lack of faith, expose them, do not cover up their transgressions.
It will take a while for it to catch on, however,
If successful, we will initiate a cultural change that will see us to the next EBA and beyond.
Who will Join us????
thanks, now i have your attention.
Why do we need to take industrial action?
The majority of us don't really need the 3% or 5%........hey.... we seem to have a plethora of LAMEs willing to do overtime!!!!!
The real reason we want to have the action is to stick it up the company because we're FED UP.
Sure we're overdue a payrise, and local and senior management are receiving between 8% and 60% payrises p.a.
Being LAMEs, generally we're a no nonsense bunch,
however we've been taking management on its word for too long.
To give a basic synopsis of the situation......
Qantas management have been playing us.
There seems to be a sentiment within management ranks, that people in offices make an airline work, not people on the front line.
Oh and also......
If you don't hold a degree, well....you're not really that smart are you.....
Too many times we have been told to "suck it up" - "times are dire" - "we're in it for our survival" - "our competitors are streets ahead"
Let me say this.............
"BULL****" and once again if you're hard of hearing..... "BULL****"
Qantas is a protected species
The only thing that would put Qantas's neck on the block would be a Hull loss, with the consequent loss of life and confidence.
Why don't we play it smart,
lets face it, the only thing that affects what our salary is our worth to our employer,
We have a tool at our disposal that would not require industrial action,
yet would enhance our position in the eyes of the travelling public and our worth to our employer.
This tool is diligence combined with intelligence
I propose we begin our "non industrial action" by....
Carrying out maintenance totally in accordance with the PPM / AMM
Transit, SA1, A, C, D, checks could be totally bound up in procedural red tape,
Let us use the Qantas PPM to the letter.
When you approach a Qantas aircraft,
don't ask....will it be ok for the next sector?
instead say....this condition needs further investigation...
and Don't just say it....DO IT.......
Remember..legally we are not required to get the aircraft out on time....only out Safely.
Simple things that are normally overlooked because of time constraints should now be investigated as a matter of course.
We all know there are many things that are let slide due to time constraints, lets pick up our game and make every punch count.
Soaking up manhours.....under the present conditions should be the priority of every LAME.
It could be writing every action or defect requiring attention into the appropriate medium, be it a techlog or an additional work, or a DRR,
It could be ensuring correct tooling is used, not making do with workaround situations.
It could be making sure you get your mealbreak after 5.5 hours not at the end of your shift.
It could be not making yourself available for overtime, whatever the case may be
Soaking up time is what the online techlog was designed to do! Use it!!!!!!
Imagine having a well paid super experienced engineer completing a job well done then assigning him to data entry tasks for an hour or two!!!!!!
These actions will set a standard and establish a minimum line in the sand for us.
It will also allow a framework for the paperwork trail back to the finance department showing the true worth of a Lame, and therefore to the upper management.
Another benefit to us and also the company would be that the aircraft will have greater servicability rates once the initial latent defects are cleared.
These actions.... if carried out by the majority of Lames, would send a strong signal to the "powers that be"
that we are worth a payrise,
that we are not an expendable commodity,
that we are above reproach,
that there is no contingency,
that you cannot walk away from the mess you have made,
That - You will respect us whether you like it or not.
It will be a hard slog if the challenge is taken up,
We will have the usual few who are recalcitrant and self serving, seeing opportunity at the expense of the boys holding the line.
Let's not be dulled by their lack of faith, expose them, do not cover up their transgressions.
It will take a while for it to catch on, however,
If successful, we will initiate a cultural change that will see us to the next EBA and beyond.
Who will Join us????