PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   ATC Issues (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues-18/)
-   -   Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/311440-airservices-australia-psychometric-testing.html)

stevep64 24th Nov 2012 02:36


May I ask what it was about the sim training that was daunting?
The learning curve was just too steep for me to keep up. You're learning something new just about every day in the sim and if you haven't got the hang of what you did yesterday, you'll struggle today with the new stuff on top. You have to be two or three steps ahead of everything, otherwise you just fall behind. I had a few good sim runs, where I felt I was on top of it, but even then I was making silly mistakes with the HMI (Human Machine Interface) stuff and getting phraseology wrong.

tobz92_ymen 24th Nov 2012 02:53

anyone else got testing on the 11th of December in Canberra? any good (and not too pricey) places to stay in Canberra close to the CASA offices?

kiwi chick 24th Nov 2012 06:20

Steve, were you in DTI when that happened?

stevep64 24th Nov 2012 08:27


Steve, were you in DTI when that happened?
Wash your mouth out Karo, that's enroute stuff :E

No, the tower stream starts off in TMA, approach and departures.

le Pingouin 24th Nov 2012 14:12

Silicon, no idea about the selection process for experienced controllers.

Airservices cut back too far on training new controllers and weren't paying attention, so got caught out by an aging work force and quite a number leaving.

As a result controller numbers are tight so it's hard to get released for training in a different area.

Silicon 24th Nov 2012 16:07

Thanks,

Hope I can get the offer.

Why people leaving? Why they provide such chance for controllers around world? There must be some reason.

I have read some file post on ASA website, it looks much more greater than CAAC(China), I think if ASA can fulfil what the post on website, it does not that bad.

I just get confused....

missy 24th Nov 2012 23:24


Why people leaving? Why they provide such chance for controllers around world? There must be some reason.
They are leaving because they are retiring. 30 years ago ATC is Australia did a massive recruitment drive and those staff are now starting to retire. Staffing in most groups across the country is below what is required for the long term.

hawaii808 25th Nov 2012 07:21

Does australia have an age limit on how old you can be to start atc?

jcr737 25th Nov 2012 09:08

Age Limit
 
Hi Hawaii808,

No age limit, you would be 18+ after finishing high school, but no upper limit. Be advised though, applicants who are in their mid-forties would be pushing it to complete the course, just read the previous posts on this thread.

At 30 you seem to be in a good age bracket. Look at previous posts, look at the age of the posters who have succeeded getting on course. And of course you have to be an Australian citizen.

jcr737

alatron 25th Nov 2012 10:11

tobz92_ymen I'm going to the 11th December assessment day. Haven't found anywhere to stay yet and it all seems pretty pricey around where the building is.

alatron 25th Nov 2012 10:13

I wonder if anyone knows if due to the current staffing levels whether tower controllers have much/any say about where they are posted? I'm looking at doing enroute but if I had the opportunity to stay in Adelaide I'd jump at the chance!

stevep64 25th Nov 2012 13:39

Alatron,
It's pretty much a case of you'll go where you're needed and, at the moment, that seems to be Bankstown or Sydney airports. You won't be sent anywhere quiet, like Tasmania, Hamilton Island, Coffs, or Alice, because you'll never get rated and besides, all the guys coming up for retirement want to finish up at places like that, well, except Alice maybe.
I'm pretty sure the last two or three courses didn't get a say in where they went.

jcr737 25th Nov 2012 20:27

Accomodation
 
Morning Alatron,

Check out the link, Canberra Youth Hostel is $39.00 a night on Dec. 11th. If you just want to get up in the morning & s**t, shower & shave, perfect. It is located within a 5 minute walk of the Airservices building. I noticed that tobz92_ymen wrote that the assessment is at the CASA building?? Thought you would do the assessment at ASA, but who knows what mysterious plans they have:

Wotif.com: Canberra hotels, accommodation, motels, serviced apartments, B&B - Online hotel bookings with instant confirmation - select your hotel at Wotif.com

Or stay at the Airport International Motel at Queanbeyan next door in NSW. $99.00 per night, still cheap by Canberra standards. 7 mins from the airport & 15 mins from beautiful downtown Canberra. No buses though, need to grab a taxi.

jcr 737

SpankyRooster 25th Nov 2012 22:38

Alatron,

Not to contradict Steve too much but, one tower course recently of 3 each got exactly where they wanted... 1 of mine did and from what I recall pretty much at least 1 from each course while I was at the academy got where they preferred.

This being said, you are agreeing to go wherever Airservices prefer when you accept their offer of employment.

There are many hurdles in your way before you have to worry too much about it. Working in Adelaide could be more of a long term plan rather than settting out for it initially,

Good Luck!

Spanks

kiwi chick 25th Nov 2012 23:19

Just one small correction, you don't have to be an Australian citizen to get in.

I'm not, nor are the other two kiwis on my course ;)

So if you're from over the ditch, you're OK too.

acpulse 26th Nov 2012 01:39

Online Test
 
Hello to all. First post, hopefully of many. I submitted my application roughly 10 days ago and received an email asking me to complete the online assessment 2 days ago.
The deadline for me to complete it by is the 2nd of December.

Just a quick question. How much time should I put aside for this online test? Is there a commonly established time limit (estimate even)?

I'd just like to know so I can organise a quiet time where I can't be distracted.

Thanks in advance, Andrew.

alatron 26th Nov 2012 04:04

jcr thanks for the suggestions, I'd seen the hostel but I'm not too keen on shared accom the night before the assessment :) But they also have private doubles for $99 and if it's close by then it might be just the ticket.

The assessment is at the Alan Woods Building which I believe is the airservices hq?

Spanks and Steve Thanks for the info, even if it's conflicting ;)

mrfancypants 26th Nov 2012 04:34

Location
 
Saying
"You won't be sent anywhere quiet, like Tasmania, Hamilton Island, Coffs, or Alice, because you'll never get rated and besides, all the guys coming up for retirement want to finish up at places like that, well, except Alice maybe"
is totally wrong.
People have been consistently sent to GAAP and outstation and regional as first posting for over the last 10 years.
And what logic is it that you wouldnt get a rating at a quiet airport?? People have been sent first off to all of those stations recently, and rated at them. They provide a much better experience base than people who go to one place(cap city) and just sit there forever with no varied experience.

Sydney has traditionally received the least number of abinitio's(not including bankstown), but I guess as they are getting really really short there is a chance.
Chances are you will just go where there is a need, be it Alice Springs, Tasmania or North QLD.
Whether or not you get a say in where you go.............the best example is a couple a while ago who said "we dont care where we go, as long as its together"..1 to cairns, 1 to Perth. That is true!

Hempy 26th Nov 2012 05:36

Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
 
Backing up FlashDacks on this one. Procedural Tower should be any trainees preference if they actually want to become well rounded, fully competent ATCs. You are not under the pump the whole time but you are fed a full range of scenarios and meet and are engaged with real flying people. Apart from the life experience, the professional experience will give you the ability to go wherever you want to go AND GET RATED with relative comfort.

jcr737 26th Nov 2012 07:25

Kiwis
 
Hi Kiwi chick,

Of course, my apologies.:ouch: Our Kiwi cousins are like family, always welcome. Was thinking of people from over the seas and far away.

jcr

canadiangal75 26th Nov 2012 22:49

not just the Kiwis
 
Come on JCR.. I was sure you knew that I was not a citizen and definitely not a Kiwi! All you need is permanent residency.. or be a Kiwi :ooh:

But then again, I didn't make the cut either... Must be because they were worried I'd distract the male controllers with my good looks and the male pilots with my hot Canadian accent :)

alatron 26th Nov 2012 23:22

I lived in Canada for 3 years and I can tell you for sure that the Canadian accent is, in fact, damn hot.

hawaii808 27th Nov 2012 05:04

Jcr737
Thanks for the info. In the US 31years is the cut off. I saw they had a bid out for international controllers, you guys must be hurting with staffing!

WhichWayIsNorth 27th Nov 2012 05:07

Has anyone who applied for the experienced controller position that was previously advertised heard anything yet?

skyfall78 27th Nov 2012 05:47

advertised
 
im one of the applicant buddy, but till now no progress. they told me to wait an email notification online skill test. :confused:

mgarnal2 27th Nov 2012 09:37

ASA Experienced
 
I also applied for the role for experienced ATCOs in Perth and Sydney and so far no news at all...

hawaii808 28th Nov 2012 07:33

Me too.....anybody know the pay for perth and sydney?

WhichWayIsNorth 28th Nov 2012 10:14

Hi hawaii808. Air traffic controller | Airservices follow this link , at the bottom of the page is the 2009-2012 collective agreemen which has the pay scale in . If I may ask did you apply for an Approach or Tower position?

sunnySA 28th Nov 2012 12:36

current salaries
 
Applications closed on 18-October, I understand that a Recognition of Prior Learning/Training Needs Analysis have commenced for the first batch of applications that have been reviewed.

Salaries effective from Saturday 1-December
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...edahahahah.png
* = current salaries plus 2.6%
SY TTCU really means Level 10 but only available to Sydney Tower & Sydney TCU staff (after they reaching level 9 in the pay scale).**
UTS means Unit Tower Supervisor (Metro D Towers (eg Bankstown, Jandakot), Regional D Towers (eg Alice Springs, Broome)
CSS / SS means Check Controller / System Supervisor
SY CSS/Supervisor means Check Controller / Supervisor but only available to Sydney Tower & Sydney TCU staff.

** Level 1 on rating then annual increments (subject to certain criteria being met).

There is a separate agreement for ATC Line Managers, current minimum of $160,000 but this agreement is under review/negotiation.


you guys must be hurting with staffing
Yes, need experienced staff for Sydney and Perth, other locations are getting staff through the ab-initio program (about 12 months college, about 4 months on the job).

WhichWayIsNorth 28th Nov 2012 13:01

Thanks for the updated info sunnySA. I applied for Sydney TWR, hoping to get some feedback soon. Do you have any knowledge on how successful the recruitment was in terms of number of applicants?

Tango7 28th Nov 2012 15:24

Movement Monitor - Sydney
 
Anyone know anything about the Movement Monitor positions currently being advertised? Never heard of this position before. Is it a newly created position?

Thanks

Tango7

hawaii808 28th Nov 2012 17:08

Whichway
i applied for approach. The pay scale, does that mean at sydney you start out at 180 grand?
Thanks

WhichWayIsNorth 28th Nov 2012 19:16

As far as I see it, No. As sunnySA said the SY TTCU is basically level 10, IE. 10 years experience but only for people at Sydney, other stations max out at level 9. we have a scale that works in a similar way here, each level is basically a year of experience, if you have 5years experience I would imagine/hope ASA would start you on level 5 etc.

sunnySA 28th Nov 2012 20:20


Anyone know anything about the Movement Monitor positions currently being advertised? Never heard of this position before. Is it a newly created position?
Movement Monitor positions are new and count aircraft movements to ensure that the current maximum of 80 movements per hour is not breached.


if you have 5years experience I would imagine/hope ASA would start you on level 5 etc
5years experience may directly translate to level 5, it could be a lower figure eg 5-7 years experience might translate to level 5. Often it is level X whilst training and then level X+1 once fully rated.

skyfall78 28th Nov 2012 20:35

hi sunnySA, do you have any perquisite than base salary?

Hempy 29th Nov 2012 05:43

Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
 
History suggests that previous international recruits have not all been successful (anecdotally ~60% pass...I hear that a while ago one US ex-regional tower controller was expected to rate on procedural enroute...)

My point being, have a backup plan. If you are a current ATC, don't burn your bridges, and if you don't have very recent experience I'd say you are probably unlikely to be offered employment anyway.

Just saying, :-)

sunnySA 29th Nov 2012 07:25


History suggests that previous international recruits have not all been successful (anecdotally ~60% pass...I hear that a while ago one US ex-regional tower controller was expected to rate on procedural enroute...)
Hopefully consigned to history, the SY & PH positions are TMA (and TWR) specific. I seriously doubt someone being offered employment if
a/ the haven't worked TMA in a busy environment (Eurocat experience would be highly regarded);
b/ RPL/TNA identifies any issues (doubt exists about the ability of a person to rate) as wasting a training slot would be very wasteful (and very hard on the individual, messy from a HR point of view).
History does indicate that recruitments take much longer than most people think. No news is no news, 26 sleeps to christmas, then there is the Xmas/New Year holiday season!!


My point being, have a backup plan. If you are a current ATC, don't burn your bridges
Good advice.

WhichWayIsNorth 29th Nov 2012 08:39

If i am accepted and things go sour unfortunetly i wont be accepted back to my current employer. My ANSP is currently refusing to accept ex employees back from the UAE, i suppose to try intimidate people into not leaving:ugh:. Does anyone know what the training is for experienced controllers, at the college specifically? Is it just a short conversion course, how do assessments work with regards to reassessments and failures, is it one chance,fail and your gone?

stevep64 29th Nov 2012 10:14


History suggests that previous international recruits have not all been successful
One of the tower blippies at the academy is an ex-approach controller from Taipei, who's English wasn't up to scratch after she did the conversion course. She's a great blippy, and I reckon there's nothing wrong with her English now, but it's a perfect example of a backup plan.

skyfall78 29th Nov 2012 11:07

hello steve
 
hi steve, are you work in brisbane center? :)


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:39.


Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.