PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   ATC Issues (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues-18/)
-   -   Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/311440-airservices-australia-psychometric-testing.html)

sunnySA 14th Oct 2012 14:08

The big tip is get settled before you start, don't rock up the weekend before and then spend the first fortnight trying to study/find somewhere to live/move/shop.
An allowance is paid, arrive a week before and use the time to find something, settle in, know where to shop, drive to work to check it all out, find a doctor, find a chemist, etc.

stevep64 14th Oct 2012 14:21

An allowance is paid
What allowance? They put you up in the Quest for a week and that's it. Not trying to be negative here, but Airservices would probably have a bit better luck with their recruiting if they stopped treating new trainees as second class citizens. Trainee blippies earn more than trainee ATCs.

le Pingouin 14th Oct 2012 15:10

That question has been put and the response was "we get enough applicants". "Never mind the quality feel the width" comes to mind.

It costs several $100,000 to train a controller & they worry about a few $1000 here or there. You could up the trainee pay by say $20,000 and come out ahead because you'd attract a higher quality of trainee. One extra pass every couple of courses and you'd be in the black.

kiwi chick 15th Oct 2012 10:44

I live in Tullamarine on Melrose Drive (as do two more of my course mates in different houses) and it take me six minutes to get to work :)

What do you mean "attract a higher quality of trainee"?

Is this an insinuation that we only got through because better people didn't apply?! :}

In_Transit 15th Oct 2012 11:20

We're lucky ASA pays us at all. And seriously that is a very veeeerry good wage just for training. Any other similar job in the world you'd have to pay to train and then not necessarily be guaranteed a job. It's not like you make the company any money while in training, where as the trainee blippees are straight-away doing their actual job, not just pretending like the atc trainees. Plus, what other job would you get paid that much as a trainee, then if you're a successful employee your pay doubles within a year & 1/2. Maybe you should try living on a 1st year apprentice wage? And just because the job wasn't for you doesn't mean the applicants/trainees are bad quality. It's a hard job, and it's not for everyone. But there are a lot of successful new field trainees & newly rated controllers. If you can make it through the college, which is hard FOR A REASON, this is an amazing job, with fantastic people, and the pay is pretty darn impressive.

alatron 15th Oct 2012 23:11

Woohoo I got an invite to the assessment stage! :)

Zilberfish 16th Oct 2012 00:43

Considering what I have just paid and how much I've had to work to pay off a commercial pilot license with no guarantee of a job or of even getting paid when I finally got a job, I for one am over the moon that Airservices will be paying me to train. They could pay me $100 a week and I'd still show up.

Could be worse!

stevep64 16th Oct 2012 02:37

It was actually a big pay rise for me when I started training, but if we hadn't had some savings put by I would have had to turn down the job, as we wouldn't have been able to afford to move down to Melbourne. I wonder how many people have done just that.

le Pingouin 16th Oct 2012 07:13

Not to put too fine a point on it kiwi, but YES!!! Turns raised eyebrow in her direction and checks clipboard..... ;)

I've worked with a number trainees who dropped 50%+ to train which looks a fairy big disincentive to me. If you're going to pay, then paying money that won't discourage potential applicants seems sensible.

I'm not denigrating or saying the current trainees are poor quality, or that the current money is bad just that if you could attract more applicants by offering better money then you'll probably have a bigger pool of suitable applicants to pick from, with a commensurate increase at the top end.

5miles 16th Oct 2012 10:26

Not to put too fine a point on it kiwi, but YES!!!
Huge assumption there; for an outcome that could never be proven.

You're assuming that 'possibly' applicants with a better aptitude for the job were dissuaded by the training salary.

stevep64 16th Oct 2012 10:51

You're assuming that 'possibly' applicants with a better aptitude for the job were dissuaded by the training salary.
I've seen forums other than PPRuNe where people have said exactly that. The jobs at BoM are the same, the people that might make good observers are applying for forecaster jobs instead, because of the money, and end up missing out. BoM, by the way, pay relocation costs for their new trainees.

I'm sure Airservices isn't the only employer who's recruiters are hamstrung by their managers' out of touch ideas.

Turns raised eyebrow in her direction and checks clipboard
Can't help thinking I know you from somewhere :E

le Pingouin 16th Oct 2012 12:20

No, I simply assume the trainee pay will dissuade some applicants. If you can attract a bigger pool of applicants you should get more at the top end to pick from, simply because you have more in total.

Many of the controllers I work with didn't start out wanting a career in ATC. They were looking for a change or just looking for a job - they fell into it rather than actively seeking it. You need something that will attract the casually interested as well as those who desperately want it, because both are as likely to have the requisite attributes.

We've done a very average job of recruiting and training over recent years so being able to cast the net wider is surely no bad thing.

Not Yet Identified 16th Oct 2012 13:09

I think the training pay is fair.

What irks me is the measly $86k deemed enough for some newly rated controllers who are holding many aircraft for up to an hour in their airspace due to one runway at a main East coast airport. This increases the complexity many times over, whilst some "experienced" recruits start on 120k and may work much less complex airspace, risking their licence a whole lot less.

No fairness in that.

le Pingouin 16th Oct 2012 14:22

We're paid for our expertise and experience, not how hard we work on a particular shift or sector. Maybe one day you'll be sitting on $120k on easy street and they'll be working their ring off instead or some other schmuck will be. Is it their fault they've been placed where they are? Go moan at management - they made the decision. Life's too bloody short for petty jealousy.

BurglarsDog 16th Oct 2012 14:28

By "experienced" I assume you mean mainly ex RAAF ?

From my own experience, a few years ago most non seconded Instructors at the school were on payband ASA 7, and earning substantially less than these new recruits - low $90k's.

Maybe they still are ?

Or maybe not; as according to some of the online recruitment opportunities ASA 7 payband now appears to top out at about $130K - not bad if you can negotiate this on appointment ( it was about $100k in my day).


kiwi chick 17th Oct 2012 10:39

I can't say I'll be complaining about "only" being on $86K. :ok:

I knew the role when I applied for it, I still would have applied for it if the pay was only $56K. ;)

le Pingouin 18th Oct 2012 04:52

It's been agreed in principle and is off being inspected for compliance. Pretty much a continuation of the current agreement. Voting to come.

jcr737 19th Oct 2012 06:20

Anyone out there who attended the Brisbane assessment days on September 10th, 11th or 12th heard anything from Airservices?


stevep64 19th Oct 2012 06:24

I had my assessment on the 11th September last year and it was Early November before I heard anything :)

jcr737 19th Oct 2012 06:29

Thanks Steve,

Two months seems to be the usual wait time according to past posts. :cool:

canadiangal75 20th Oct 2012 06:28

still waiting
same here jcr. I'm still waiting as well. It will be 6 weeks on Monday. One HR staff said it would be about 6 weeks and the other said it would be 4 weeks. So I'm thinking any day now.

canadiangal75 22nd Oct 2012 09:52

well got my rejection email today... There's not much to say other than I am crushed and curious about what they will have to say in the feedback.

Good luck everyone.

jcr737 22nd Oct 2012 09:54

No Good
Got the dreaded email today...Not a strong fit for ATC. :( Want to thank all those people who posted support and assistance on this forum, publicly & privately. To all the successful applicants in September 2012..WELL DONE!!

Looking for another option. Anybody need a Commercial Pilot??? ;)

Hempy 22nd Oct 2012 10:07

jcr ask them about Sim Support Officer aka blip-driver jobs. I think it only tops out at around $80k but anyone with flying experience and a bit of computer nouse would be a perfect candidate. Jobs going shortly if not currently I think.

stevep64 22nd Oct 2012 10:16

jcr ask them about Sim Support Officer aka blip-driver jobs
Ssh! I don't need the competition:\

jcr737 22nd Oct 2012 10:35

Sim Support Officer
Thanks Hempy. :ok: Sorry Steve. :{

barberwi 22nd Oct 2012 14:27

I got my assessment day offer email today, so looks like they were a busy bunch for a Monday.

Really looking foward to it

slscrockatt 24th Oct 2012 09:14

For those people who have started or completed the training, the ARM they send you on the USB. They are what they use to train the whole course with not just the pre course material.

And anyone know how much they expect us to read or know by the start.


jcr737 24th Oct 2012 09:30

Hi slsrockatt,

This may help you, I remember them from earlier posts:

I only printed out the pages mentioned in the study guide, which in some cases, was like 10% of an entire chapter :P Plus I did it at work, so it didn't cost me anything fortunately!

All the previous comments are correct, the initial test is just to gauge where people are at and who might need a little extra help in the theory block, and they reteach everything over the first 8 weeks anyway. One person on our course never looked at the pre material, barely looked at the books at the college, and still passed :P Not saying that's the way to do it, just an indication :P

Thanks to Fatty182 :ok:

Also check out Kieran17's excellent description of the entire course, currently on page 109 of this thread. It appears Airservices will judge your knowledge of the subject matter in the first week or two of the course commencing. All the best. :)

kiwi chick 24th Oct 2012 10:39

slsrockatt, there's another thread in the ATC forums with an interesting discussion on pre-course study.

Take it for what you will :ok:

TequilaMockingbird 30th Oct 2012 14:57

We're lucky ASA pays us at all. And seriously that is a very veeeerry good wage just for training. Any other similar job in the world you'd have to pay to train and then not necessarily be guaranteed a job. It's not like you make the company any money while in training, where as the trainee blippees are straight-away doing their actual job, not just pretending like the atc trainees. Plus, what other job would you get paid that much as a trainee, then if you're a successful employee your pay doubles within a year & 1/2.
Trainee Network Controller with QR National is a somewhat similar job that offers all those factors.

barberwi 1st Nov 2012 04:41

I'm booked in for Wednesday next week!

anita82 2nd Nov 2012 00:59

Hi guys
I passed my phone interview 2 days ago and I've been told to wait for an invitation for an upcoming assessment centre in Canberra or Brisbane.

My question is - how much time do you have after they tell you the date? According to the written by Ruth Jones and barberwi they left them like 6 days?? I'm in Melbourne, I need to book a flight and to lie something at my work place for my 2-3 days urgent absence...how did you guys manage this issue?

shags_j 2nd Nov 2012 01:33

Where are all your assessment day interviews at?

stevep64 2nd Nov 2012 02:49

You're in Melbourne and they want you to do your assessment in Brisbane or Canberra? :ugh:

You've really gotta wonder about them sometimes. Surely they could get you into a Melbourne session, even if you have to wait a little longer for one to come up.

anita82 2nd Nov 2012 05:14

Thanks for the responses! 2 weeks notice sounds good, I got panicked I'll have to arrange everything in few days :rolleyes: Hopefully there will be a Monday or Friday date, I'll get "sick" and have a mini vacation in Brisbane/Canberra :)

Otherwise nobody is making me to go somewhere else, it's basically what cadetkid said - the next assessment date in Melbourne is full so they asked if I'm interested to attend an assessment in a different city and I said yes. I could say no and wait for the next one in Melbourne but I don't want to delay my assessment process just because of pure laziness :)

alatron 2nd Nov 2012 08:50

I passed the phone interview 3 weeks ago. Still waiting to hear when the assessment day will be, but Carolyn did say it would probably be mid-December.

stevep64 2nd Nov 2012 09:46

I've got to agree with almost everything Cadetkid said in that last post, including the bit about negativity, because I know I come across that way sometimes.

I just wrote a big long response, twice, then deleted them both, but when it comes right down to it, it's just a job. At some point you're going to whinge about your managers, or the food in the canteen, or the fact you didn't get the sector you wanted. If you're 100% positive through everything you do as an ATC, please let me know what sector you're controlling, so I can avoid it.

barberwi 2nd Nov 2012 12:58

Hey Anita,

i had my phone interview around the 10th September, which lead to an email on the 22nd October, to book in during the 7-9th Nov.

Hasn't been too bad of a process so far, my initial application was 18th July. Hopefully i hear whether or not i made it before Christmas, but that may not happen from some reports.

barberwi 7th Nov 2012 06:18

Just did the assessment day.

Overall it wasn't too bad, long but challenging.

I suck at individual presentations so having done that last today has left me
Feeling a bit down about how I went overall.

Hopefully it doesn't cost me too much as I went alright at the rest of the tests.

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:48.

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.