Hi,

is it normal to not get any response till now after an online assessment completed in march? my profile just shows the completion date.

i would like to think that "No news is good news" but .....:confused:

The time to get a response to any of the stages seem to vary greatly for everyone. In this case, no news is good news because they will email you soon enough if you have not made the cut.

Im now at 5 weeks since my assessment and no references contacted. Im starting to doubt that no news is good news, at this stage im pretty certain I havnt made it.

Hang in there Cadetkid. My referee neglected to tell me he'd been contacted. When I asked him, the day I got an offer, he said "Oh yeah, I meant to tell you about that". :ugh:

I know mine havnt unfortunately, I've been in direct contact with them. Also I've been waiting to see if the website shows my application status as reference check complete, which it hasnt. It would be nice to know though, surely it doesn't take 5 weeks to know who is suitable and let the unsuccesful candidates know, but it just seems to be the way it is.

They usually let the unsuccessful ones know after they've notified the successful ones. So, even though they might know someone isn't suitable, they'll get kept waiting unfortunately.

That's the worst thing about it. Fair enough if im unsuccesful but as a young guy trying to find a career im in stalemate because I can't set anything else into motion until I know the outcome of this, which is frustrating.

On the topic of waiting, can anyone that's currently on a course give me an idea of what's in the welcome pack they send out?

I emailed them a couple of weeks ago to find out when it will be sent and was told, they usually send them about 6 weeks before the course. My course starts in less than 4 weeks, so I got in touch again last week to give them a bit of a push and was told they could probably send it out on Monday, yesterday. They'd let me know when it was sent, still nothing.

I leave for Melbourne next week and will be spending the 2 weeks before I start, looking for accommodation. Is the stuff I need to study stuff that I already know as a PPL? Is it stuff I can download from somewhere?

PS. I just posted this in the NATS thread accidentally. Was tempted to leave it there to stir things up :E

Hey Stevep64,

How much notice were you given when you got the nod to attend the course in Melbourne? Do they give you much time to get your medical done/have a little R&R before you start?

Canuck,

I got my offer in November, but there's a few people that started in February and got their offers after me. For various reasons, it took just over 3 months for CASA to issue me a class 3, so you really have to chase them and your DAME up. CASA won't bother to contact you if they're missing a bit of paper work.

As far as R&R before you start, I finished my last job at Easter and I've been packing and fixing up stuff around the house ever since :} Our break will be the drive down to Melbourne.

If I remember correctly, it's basically a USB with a few different pdfs with info about moving to Melbourne, safety and security at the academy, a training plan, training curriculum, and then the ARM (aviation reference manual), amongst a few other things. The ARM is what you should be studying, but if you've got a PPL, then you should already have a good grasp of the stuff that's in there, but a bit of revision wouldn't hurt; just don't expect to read, or have studied thoroughly everything, since there's over 1000 pages. You will then actually cover a lot of the stuff in the theory subjects later on, and your PPL will probably give you a slight advantage in that regard (don't forget, you'll have people in your course with ZERO flying experience), but as you get further into the course, previous flying experience matters less and less.

So I have just put my initial application in with ASA for ATC. Does anyone know when I can expect to hear back from them??

And what's next?

""

There is a lot of information in this thread to answer your questions. Truthfully though, as you'll see from reading here, there's no set time between stages/responses.

6 weeks on and I just got a reference contacted :) renewed hope :)

Good news, Cadetkid.

Having my assessment day on the 24th.

Australian ATC Recruitment FAQ
 

I have been working on this on of off for a while. I realise that I will probably never finish it without external help. Please feel free to answer the unanswered questions and comment and anything you think is not correct. Some of the text is copied from other posters and all credit remains with them.


Australian ATC Recruitment FAQ

DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT

Disclaimer. This is not an official document. All information contained in is prepared to the best of my ability but it probably contains inaccuracies. Use t your own risk. All official queries to ASA recruitment.

Do I have what is required to do the job?

This is a very difficult question and there is no exact answer. For many years ASA recruiting have been trying to define this. Most people seem to think you either have it or you don’t. You can be trained to some degree but some will never get it regardless of how much training they get.

Quoting Le pingouin "You need to be able to maintain a good balance of contradictory demands - speed & accuracy, attention to detail without obsessing, flexibility within a rigid framework of rules, confident but aware of your limitations, able to adapt the way you work to suit the situation. "

Is there an age limit?

No. But past experience has shown that people over 35 will struggle with the training. There are always exceptions to the rule. If you're in a well paid job and think ATC would be a good career change, you should consider the fact that you may not pass the course.

What are the educational requirements?

Must have completed Year 12 with passes in English, Maths and Science [preferably Physics] or hold a tertiary education qualification or a Commercial or Private Pilot Licence.

What are the medical requirements?

From the ASA website:-

Medical Standards
Licensing as an Air Traffic Controller (ATC) requires attainment of a Class 3 Medical Certificate in accordance with medical standards specified by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). The medical standards are specified in Part 67 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations (CASRs). Any individual who is unable to meet the prescribed medical standards for Air Traffic Controller's will be ineligible to be issued with an ATC licence by CASA, and hence, will automatically be ineligible for ATC training and/or employment with Airservices Australia.
Please take the time to read Regulation 67.160 of Part 67 of the CASRs before lodging your application. You can find the regulations on CASA's website. In the event that you have any doubt about your ability to meet the prescribed medical standards, we strongly encourage you to seek further information from CASA before you submit your application. Telephone: 131 757.


I am not an Australian or New Zealand citizen. Can I apply? Will ASA sponsor me?

You must be an Australian or New Zealand citizen or have permanent residency status in Australia to apply. ASA will not sponsor you. If you don't have the right to live and work in Australia then you must first apply under the skilled migration scheme. For more info visit here.. Note:- several years ago ASA did sponsor non citizens but this practise has ceased and they are unlikely to sponsor people in the near future.

How do I apply?

On the ASA website.
Air traffic controller | Airservices


What is the selection process?

The process I detailed here. Applicant assessment – tests and interviews | Airservices

What should I expect/how can I prepare for the online testing?

The online testing involves 5 different areas.
Verbal reasoning; Where you're given a paragraph to read and have to answer questions which test your comprehension. The answers are either, True, False, or cannot say.
Numerical reasoning; Where you must answer questions based on statistical tables.
Numerical calculations; Basically, mental arithmetic. You are allowed to use a calculator, or pen and paper, but it's not that hard.
Checking test; Basically, recognising patterns in groups of numbers/letters.
Talent screener; This one is more of an HR wank. If you've already got, or have had a job, you'll breeze through this one.
There is an opportunity to practise some of the tests before you actually do them.
What should I expect/how can I prepare for the phone interview?

There is not much info on what happens in this. Just a few questions to confirm who you are and that you present ok. It is considered the easiest part of the process.

What should I expect/how can I prepare for the testing day?


If you get as far as the assessment, you'll be sent information on what it involves beforehand. For those of you that can't wait, here is the sort of thing you'll do on the day, in no particular order, since it's different for everyone. I'm not going into too much detail here, for obvious reasons.

Psychometric testing; Similar to what you did on the online testing, with a few extras. Group exercise; As a group, you're given a task to complete, while the assessors watch individuals to see how they work in a team. No, I won't tell you what the task is.

Simulation exercise; As the name suggests, you're given various ATC type scenarios that you must work through without killing anyone. You're expected to tell the assessors what you are doing as you go through it.
Behavioural interview; About an hour of talking about yourself. It's based on the STAR method, Situation or Task, Action you took, Results you achieved.

Briefing exercise; You'll be given some information to read, then you have 20 minutes to prepare a 10 minute presentation from that information.

Is there any way I can prepare for the assessment day? Yes, don't drink the night before, get plenty of sleep, and try to get there early. Other than that, try and visit a tower/centre and do as much research as you can about what the job involves.


How long is it between each stage of the selection process?
AsA have streamlined a lot of their selection process recently, but you still need to be patient in between the different steps.
A recent recruits experience:-
"I applied at the beginning of July 2011. At the end of the month I was invited to do the online testing. Around the middle of August I was advised I'd done okay in the online testing and was invited to book my phone interview, which happened at the beginning of September. The day after the phone interview I got an email to say I was through to the assessment stage, which happened 3 weeks later. Once the assessment was out of the way I had a six week wait before getting an offer at the beginning of November. Once all that is out of the way, you've got another two or three, or in my case five, months wait before your course starts."

Why doesn’t the person in recruiting return my call/email?

Any email is best followed up with a phone call. They usually get around to answering you but some stuff has gone missing in the past.

How do I organise a visit to a tower or centre.

Ring AsA on 1800 026 147 and tell them you want to visit a tower/centre. Your mileage may very though, especially if you tell them you're “thinking” of applying for a job. You're more likely to have success if you're going through the selection process and have already got to the stage of having booked your assessment day

How many trainees are selected each year.

ASA are aiming to train 100 people per year.

I am I given a choice Tower or Enroute?

Some people are given a choice. Some not.

Which is better Tower or Enroute?

They both have arguments for and against. You will have to make your own mind up. The deciding factor for a lot of people is the fact if you choose enroute you are going to Melbourne or Brisbane (usually you are offered a choice) and once there you probably won’t be moved. Tower recruits are expected to go to any tower in the country and probably will be moved more often.

Where is the training?

All tower courses are done at the ASA Learning Academy Tower Rd Melbourne Airport
Currently Enroute training courses are offered at the ASA Learning Academy in Melbourne or at the Air Traffic Services Centre in Brisbane. At the moment Brisbane does not have a huge amount of training capacity and they are limited to 1 or 2 courses at a time.

I have passed the selection process. When will I be placed on a course? Should I resign from my current job?

Anywhere from weeks for 6-8months. Keep in touch with recruitment. ASA is notorious for rescheduling/cancelling courses. DO NOT resign from you current job until the very last moment.

What hours will I be working when I am at the Learning Academy?


The hours at the college are organised (at the moment) into two "shifts" to maximise the use of the simulator. When you start, the first couple of days are 9-5, corporate induction, etc, then you'll go to 7am - 2:12pm for the theory block, and maybe the start of your sim work. At some stage you'll swap over to 11am - 6:12pm, do a few weeks of that, back to morning, etc. Mon-Fri.

How many people will be on my course?

4 People on a tower course.
8-16 on an enroute course.
Often combined tower/enroute courses for the first 6-8 weeks for theory.

Where should I look for a house/unit to live in while I am training?

This will depend on your circumstances.
Single, minimum commitments, looking for a place closer to the city/nightlife/public transport.
Suggested suburbs Essendon and surrounds

Married, family, pets etc need a family sized house.
Keilor, Taylors Lakes and surrounds.

Either way do you own research on cost/public transport/lifestyle.

Do I need a car or can I ride/public transport.

Melb
There is no public transport to the Learning Academy. Riding is possible. The nearest suburbs of Tullamarine, Keilor Park, Gladstone Park are about 8-10km ride.
Bris.
There is a train station near Brisbane Centre.

I am looking for a flatmate/share house to stay in.

Post in this thread. People are often looking for flatmates etc.

How long is the training?

Learning Academy: 12 months approximately
Final field training: 4 – 6 months approximately

Several recent courses have spent longer periods at the Academy due lack of training resources.




They have sent me a bunch of pre course study material. Do I really need to study it all? What are the important bits?

Learn and practice your phonetic alphabet. Practice on reading out loud number plates when you are driving.
The following are comments from 2009. I can't verfiy what the current expectation is:-
"I wouldn't fuss too much about the pre course material. Sure, do the reading and answer the questions but it really has no impact on your training at all. It's just background knowledge which you will cover during the course if needed. They are really just testing to see If you feel the need to dedicate some time to it, go for Meteorology, Flight Instruments and Aids and Principles of Flight."


How difficult and how much study do I need to do while training?


It is tough. The theoretical part is not conceptually difficult and anyone who has passed all the testing should be able to complete it without to much difficulty. The difficult part is applying the theory to the simulation component whilst under pressure. Yes some people will breeze through without many problems, others will struggle until it clicks and a significant number won't get through. I would suggest studying hard because there is nothing more annoying than having a trainee who fails because of lack of book knowledge. If you fail due to the lack of ability then there is nothing we can do. If you fail due to lack of diligence then we have all wasted our time.

I have a PPL/CPL/ATPL etc. Do I get any exemptions or RPL?

No exemptions are granted.

I am a pilot/have no aviation background. Will the training be easier/harder for me?

Some things will be easier as you will have covered this during your pilot training (Met, Nav etc). But these subjects are not to difficult to pick up for the non aviation background person. The hardest part is the simulation where you will all be on a level playing field.

Should I join Civil Air (the ATC union) during my training?

Yes. Civil Air has limited ability to help you during training as you are considered on probation, but in the past Civil Air has represented trainees during appeals against terminations and provided assistance in making sure correct entitlements have been paid. The cost is $10/month during training.

What percentage of trainees make it through?

This varies from course to course. Recent pass rates are approximately 60%???.

How much do I get paid?

College training :- $42266
Final Field Training:- $63400
Upon Rating :- $86294
After 9 years:- $161343
Due to current staffing levels there is an abundance of overtime and you could possibly earn 10-20% more if you are prepared to do the hours.

How am I going to afford the support my family while on such a low training wage? Can I do another job part time while training?

It is going to be very tough. People with families to support will struggle. Consider very carefully if you are prepared to sacrifice up to 18months of your life with no result.
You must obtain permission from ASA to have a second job. You are almost certain not to get permission during training. You probably will need all your energy and spare time dedicated to the training and hence a second job is not recommended. Some people have been known to continue on there trade/business during holidays and weekends to help make ends meet.

Is there a gym?

Yes. Both Melbourne and Brisbane centres have a gym.

Do I get a choice of where I get posted after training.

Enroute:- Yes Melbourne or Brisbane
Tower:- They may take into consideration you preference but there are no guarantees.

What sort of shift pattern will I work once rated?

You will work a nominal 36 hour week. The shift patterns vary widely depending on what group/tower you are posted to. Some typical shift patterns are

MMAANNOOO (more examples wanted)

How much overtime am I expect to do?

Your working conditions are governed by our certified agreement which covers working hours and time off. The CA states that you are required to do "reasonable overtime". The CA also has list of reasons why you may refuse to do overtime. If you do not have one of these reasons, then ASA may discipline you. You are not required to be contactable or to return calls when you are rostered off. Some groups are more short staffed than others and if you are on a really short staffed group you can expect to be called on every day off. Others maybe a once or twice a fortnight.

I have read that you are short staffed and that morale is low. What’s the real story?

Yes we are still short staffed and we need every extra body we can get. Like any jobs it has its positives and negatives. Most people are happy doing the job of separating the airplanes. There are some unhappy people and most people despair at management. If you are willing to ignore some of the crap that goes on it is not a bad place to work.

Willadvise,
I've been working on one as well. If you PM me your email address I'll send you what I've got so far. Some of it fills in some of your blanks.

Would it be worth it for me to uproot the two of us and move to Australia, go through the full training process and hope for a high grade tower assignment?
I have 13 years previous ATC experience but have been away from the mic for two years.

Gill, unless you fulfil this requirement it's a flat no: "be an Australian or New Zealand Citizen or hold permanent residency status in Australia".

Provided the residency requirements were met, is that salary good enough to have a nice life? Seems like housing prices are quite high there.

I got a gig in Canadia in 2003 and the numbers at that time were pretty much same same as far as Edmonton vs Brisbane. I was a top pay scale aussie ATC at the time in OZ. Costs in Canada were cheaper and made it pretty much same same at the interim level they were offering there. I pretty much gauge my happiness based on my days off. Roster me, leave me alone when not at work, allow me to be a controller when I am and approve my leave as I want it. The rest, I don't really care about.

I have a bunch of opinion both ways including work and work culture and have family working in Canadian ATC right now if you wish to pm for further info. I have not worked in OZ for nearly 3 years now though to quantify.

Depends on your definition of "nice" I guess but you'd be making compromises for the first few years at least, particularly on a single wage. Housing can be very expensive but for instance Melbourne airport is outer suburban so the housing is more affordable in the area if you don't mind outer suburban.

There's no such thing as a "high grade" tower assignment- we're all paid the same and you start at the bottom and work your way up the payscales.

Has anyone ever had a reference check done (a favourable one...) and NOT been offered a position?

Greetings to all

nice job with the FAQs

finally got my Phone Interview done :) looks like it went pretty good.

just wondering if anyone was able to get a visit to MEL ATC recently?

Cheers :ok:

just wondering if anyone was able to get a visit to MEL ATC recently?

Yep, just give head office a call and they will give you the contact details for someone at Tullamarine who can arrange a time for you.

Everyone was really generous with their time and happy to answer all the stupid questions I threw at them.

I got to spend a few hours in enroute and a quick visit to the tower. Well worth the visit.

References rung today! :D

Room AVBL
 

I have a room available in my house from Friday the 18th if anyone is interested. It's in Taylors Hill, takes about 20 minutes to get to work in the morning. I've just finished in the academy and am starting field training now, my housemate is who just finished is heading up to Brissy.
The house and room is fully furnished with plenty of street parking avbl (it's a safe area, watch the garbage trucks though...). Rent is $120p/w inclusive of unlimited internet and all bills split evenly. Shops close by and the train to get into the city is about a 5 minute drive.

PM me if interested.

cheers all
Kieran

Just one thing to add to the training. It is rigorous, it is full on from the time you hit the academy. Make sure that you have the full support of everyone around you.
The time in the training college can best be describe as a game of Tetris, you keep getting hit with blocks of information, it's your job to put them into place. If you miss any time, think of that as a block not placed in a good position, so all of a sudden you have blocks stacking up. All of a sudden your focus becomes skewed, you get a little bit behind etc etc.
By suggesting it is like Tetris, it isn't a game, you just have to be on top all the time. If you miss any time or fail to pass an exam, then every minute that you use to recover from what you have missed takes time away from the next subject.
The lecturers are all really good, very helpful. They will try to get through but you have to make the effort.
All the other students are really good as well. It is quite a friendly environment. Make sure that you get on well with your group. You will spend the next twelve months with the group on a very close basis.

What to study.
 

Have a look at some of the information on the following websites. It wont give you answers to all your questions, but become familiar with the information, it will make everything a little easier once you get going.
Aviation Weather Services
Pilot's Web The Aviators' Journal - Principles of Flight
Flight instruments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
These are probably a good start. You do get lots of good course information, just keep your reading up.

Another thing, much of the information must be learnt by rote. Rote learning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, and you might like to look at Aeronautical Information Package (AIP) | Airservices this as well.

This gives a good explanation of rote learning. It is very important once you hit the academy.

I have a bunch of opinion both ways including work and work culture and have family working in Canadian ATC right now if you wish to pm for further info. I have not worked in OZ for nearly 3 years now though to quantify.
I was ATC in Canada for 13 years so I know that employer prety well, thanks for the information though.

Depends on your definition of "nice" I guess but you'd be making compromises for the first few years at least, particularly on a single wage. Housing can be very expensive but for instance Melbourne airport is outer suburban so the housing is more affordable in the area if you don't mind outer suburban.

There's no such thing as a "high grade" tower assignment- we're all paid the same and you start at the bottom and work your way up the payscales.
In Canada the busier Towers and ACC get higher payscales and premiums. I did notice that housing in the major cities in Australia seems quite pricey..

Yeah.. not sure of it is worth the trouble of starting from scratch moving across the Pacific. Thanks for the information though.

Hi guys/girls thanks for the great information
Stevep64 good luck with the course mate and YMML isn't really that bad and love to have a look at your FAQ's if you get a chance
Will advise thanks for answering the questions we are all asking and saving me alot of time trolling through 90 odd pages
quester2000 mate hope you get through, glad you enjoyed the day and any further insights you can offer into the assessment day would be greatly appreciated
Blackgoat I'll see you on the 24th In Melb should be one hell of a day:)

How are locations assigned in Australia for trainees? Popularity contest or luck of the draw?

Archer13, my FAQ has been incorporated into Will's.
Melbourne's okay so far, AsA are paying our accommodation this week and we've already found a place to live for the duration of the course, less than 15 minutes from work.
Can't complain about the weather. If I don't like it I just wait 5 minutes and it changes :)

Luck of the draw. Or luck of where they need trainees at the time. You can nominate preferences but there's no guarantee. For tower you could end up anywhere in the country, while for en-route it's Melbourne or Brisbane.

Speaking of the FAQ. Any chance of it being posted as a separate thread Will? Otherwise it'll get buried. Or are you waiting for more input first?

Where is the ATC training centre, if there is a central one.
Is it like the one in Canada used to be; self contained, dorms, cafeteria, the works?
Or do you have to rent your own place.

Hah. Nothing like that Gill. The Navcan place is like a hotel. That Irish pub was awesome. Loved how at closing time they would sell you three jugs and let you drink them in the foyer.

Plazbot,
Those days are long over.
These days they do the training in the six ACCs around the country, you pay for it, you rent your own place, you cook your own meals, make your bed and all those things PLUS no pay!

The training is in Melbourne (except for a few courses that have been run in Brisbane) and it's in the Airservices compound at the airport - next to the tower. Accommodation is your responsibility, as is making your bed, but you can chance your stomach in the canteen (BYO money).

Is the canteen subsidised, or is it normal food court type prices. I'm old enough to remember subsidised Telecom canteens :\

I'm willing to risk my stomach, occasionally, for cheap food, but might stick to packed lunches from home.

I don't think the food is subsidised - about $8 for dinner. I tend to bring my own, but then Mrs Pingouin is a dab hand in the kitchen :) It also beats the queue and I don't miss out if I can't unplug.