Spanish ATC
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Guys in fairness,
While I don't agree with everything p_perez has posted (in fact most things) at least he has given us the other side of the story. This is a debate, not a slagging match.
I for one am glad to have both sides of the argument.
And no I'm not ATC
While I don't agree with everything p_perez has posted (in fact most things) at least he has given us the other side of the story. This is a debate, not a slagging match.
I for one am glad to have both sides of the argument.
And no I'm not ATC
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KTT,
In fact pperez said the opposite:
Listen before you talk, read before you post. You wouldn't happen to have an agenda, would you?
Next you'll be saying that Spanish aircraft never get priority - oh, you've already said that!!!!
And about the occasional priority given to Spanish companies over other foreign ones, I can only tell you that I have never, EVER, given priority to anybody because of the nationality of the carrier. I have witnessed this on very few occasions with some senior colleague. And I have been ranted MORE than on few ocassions by an Spanish pilot for not giving him priority. Seniors are more present in app sectors, of which I believe you complain more: I´m not yet on that job, only an enroute ATCO.
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OK, I stand corrected; by my experience, EVERY spanish aircraft in Madrids airspace gets priority; pperez's assertion that it is a rare event is simply not true!
But still no comment re the video and the reaction from the many posters who have expressed outrage and despair at so called professionals who control the spanish skies!
But still no comment re the video and the reaction from the many posters who have expressed outrage and despair at so called professionals who control the spanish skies!
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Its true, every spanish aircraft gets priority over all other aircraft every single day both on the ground and in the air in madrid, with very few exceptions. To say it happens "on occasion" is total BS.
Last edited by McNulty; 1st Aug 2010 at 10:41. Reason: typo
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P_Perez
Thank you for your reply.
But, I encourage you to advise your fellow controllers who run the practise of giving Spanish aircraft priority to stop. This sort of behaviour severely damages pilots' respect for Spanish ATC. I been sat next to many fellow pilots who curse ALL Spanish controllers because of this and I have fumed at times.
How is your union lobbying your DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders to change a very unfair and unsafe system? It seems very little has changed since the days of General Franco.
Everyone else reading
I was drawn to this post as I DID hold a lot of animosity towards Spanish ATC.
However, I suggest everyone STOP and take the time to read what information P_Perez has posted. Yes, the video within the ATC centre was shocking, but now imagine your airline/country imposing the same restrictions that effectively tie your hands. Think of the frustration of trying to encourage and reform in a country which is strongly adverse to such actions.
Read more, type less!
Thank you for your reply.
But, I encourage you to advise your fellow controllers who run the practise of giving Spanish aircraft priority to stop. This sort of behaviour severely damages pilots' respect for Spanish ATC. I been sat next to many fellow pilots who curse ALL Spanish controllers because of this and I have fumed at times.
How is your union lobbying your DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders to change a very unfair and unsafe system? It seems very little has changed since the days of General Franco.
Everyone else reading
I was drawn to this post as I DID hold a lot of animosity towards Spanish ATC.
However, I suggest everyone STOP and take the time to read what information P_Perez has posted. Yes, the video within the ATC centre was shocking, but now imagine your airline/country imposing the same restrictions that effectively tie your hands. Think of the frustration of trying to encourage and reform in a country which is strongly adverse to such actions.
Read more, type less!
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Guys, you are definitely making too much rumour about this video. Watch it once again, cool down. I can see that:
1. there is some management' clown in a funny baseball hat walking all over the room and disturbing operational staff
2. all the people who are walking behind and making photos are obviously at their breaks and don't work at the moment
3. 1/3 - 1/2 of people in front of the screens don't even turn their heads around to see what's going on, they remain perfectly calm and focused on their screens
4. most of the remaining stay plugged and seated, paying attention to their screens, just turning their heads for a moment to see what's going on
5. only one guy sitting next to the board does unplug and stand up, but he might have been working at some quiet sector (even in Spain at the moment not every sector is at 110% capacity all the time), or doing some non-ATC work at the moment, just utilizing the station, i.e. for maintenance
6. sometimes a friend walking behind, tapping you at the shoulder just to say 'hello' is more disturbing to operational work than whole this situation
7. if you are from Britain, you'll never fully understand why people from Spain express themselves by shouting and whistling. It's just a cultural difference. Spaniards don't have any idea why do you eat this crappy English food as well.
1. there is some management' clown in a funny baseball hat walking all over the room and disturbing operational staff
2. all the people who are walking behind and making photos are obviously at their breaks and don't work at the moment
3. 1/3 - 1/2 of people in front of the screens don't even turn their heads around to see what's going on, they remain perfectly calm and focused on their screens
4. most of the remaining stay plugged and seated, paying attention to their screens, just turning their heads for a moment to see what's going on
5. only one guy sitting next to the board does unplug and stand up, but he might have been working at some quiet sector (even in Spain at the moment not every sector is at 110% capacity all the time), or doing some non-ATC work at the moment, just utilizing the station, i.e. for maintenance
6. sometimes a friend walking behind, tapping you at the shoulder just to say 'hello' is more disturbing to operational work than whole this situation
7. if you are from Britain, you'll never fully understand why people from Spain express themselves by shouting and whistling. It's just a cultural difference. Spaniards don't have any idea why do you eat this crappy English food as well.
Gender Faculty Specialist
1. If a man walking is disturbing, then that is well...disturbing.
2. Are they obviously on a break? How can you tell? If they are should they be joining in with the whole circus?
3. Which means 2/3 to a 1/2 do turn around and pay more attention to what's going on behind them than they are to there job.
4. Which is what everybody should do.
5. Does it matter if your sector is quiet? If you are only controlling one aeroplane is that less likely to have an emergency or need your help? Nope. But you've buggered off to the other side of the room so tough, our problem for being on a quiet sector.
6. One person saying hello is more distrurbing than what looked and sounded like a bunch of chimps fighting over a banana? Really?
7. Cultural differences apart. Professional still means professional.
2. Are they obviously on a break? How can you tell? If they are should they be joining in with the whole circus?
3. Which means 2/3 to a 1/2 do turn around and pay more attention to what's going on behind them than they are to there job.
4. Which is what everybody should do.
5. Does it matter if your sector is quiet? If you are only controlling one aeroplane is that less likely to have an emergency or need your help? Nope. But you've buggered off to the other side of the room so tough, our problem for being on a quiet sector.
6. One person saying hello is more distrurbing than what looked and sounded like a bunch of chimps fighting over a banana? Really?
7. Cultural differences apart. Professional still means professional.
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but now imagine your airline/country imposing the same restrictions that effectively tie your hands
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Denti, that is easy said and hard to do once your past the "sell off by" date, roughly 35 to 40 in Europe. I trust that a lot of the spanish controller like their job, but not how the development goes. I also, as mentioned before, see their schedules as dangerous. If they protest these, they are right. All I ask them to do is to reconsider who they penalize how and what the possible gain from that is. (and some things we don´t like are imposed by management, so...)
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2. Are they obviously on a break? How can you tell? If they are should they be joining in with the whole circus?
3. Which means 2/3 to a 1/2 do turn around and pay more attention to what's going on behind them than they are to there job.
5. Does it matter if your sector is quiet?
If you are only controlling one aeroplane is that less likely to have an emergency or need your help?
6. One person saying hello is more distrurbing than what looked and sounded like a bunch of chimps fighting over a banana? Really?
Last edited by samotnik; 1st Aug 2010 at 21:21.
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).I have always argued that I do not care how mucho dinero they get paid (which is how it all started), and I have stated that I would be more than happy for a German, Swiss, French, even an Italian controller to be on Spanish salaries. That is because I feel I'm getting my money's worth from them--the French saved my bacon one day before I even knew I was in trouble, the Italians saved it again some time latter (this time I knew full well I was in trouble
)... the Spaniards closed my flight plan after it'd gone ALERFA. If that's not being a dangerous **** you tell me what is.And no, they're not being "overworked" insofar as they are doing the exact same duty hours as last year... or they would be, if they all didn't start pulling sickies so colleagues have to cover for them.
I believe they were quick to tell you on this thread how many of them were off "sick" because of stress, blah, blah... what they might not have told you is that the government have decided that they be checked by social security GPs (rather than their own doctors), who found no grounds to justify a medical leave on something like 80% of the cases.
They should all be sacked--the competent ones amongst them (and there are, albeit very few) can always be rehired latter.
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Kick the Tires:
How typically spanish! You scored an own goal with that video, have lost credibility and indeed the support you had from us within this debate so you stick your head in the sand, deny everything and then start to get aggressive
How is that "tipically Spanish"?
How typically spanish! You scored an own goal with that video, have lost credibility and indeed the support you had from us within this debate so you stick your head in the sand, deny everything and then start to get aggressive
How is that "tipically Spanish"?
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Below par
Spanish ATC performs below standard even on a normal day without any strike.
Unfortunately with this ongoing strike pilots also loose respect for the Spanish ATC.
Some time ago coming in late one night, ATC told us to fly the full approach procedure.
Since there was no traffic in the area we ignored them and cleared ourselves direct to final.
This is of course an unprofessional actions and does not belong in aviation.
That night we lowered ourselves to a level of Spanish ATC and I´m not proud over it.
Unfortunately with this ongoing strike pilots also loose respect for the Spanish ATC.
Some time ago coming in late one night, ATC told us to fly the full approach procedure.
Since there was no traffic in the area we ignored them and cleared ourselves direct to final.
This is of course an unprofessional actions and does not belong in aviation.
That night we lowered ourselves to a level of Spanish ATC and I´m not proud over it.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Does it? I can guarantee that this aircraft didn't need controller's assistance. No ATCo, all over the world, would ever take their sight off of the screen in case of any aircraft needing their assistance in case of any emergency.
Are you an ATCo? If you're not - believe me - they are going to join this cirus as long they are on a break
No I'm not an ATCO but I have visited several ATC centres in the UK. I am a professional and behave so at work like I expect others to do. Especially if they are supposed to be giving me a service. So I can judge them from a professional point of view. Being an ATCO doesn't excuse immature and irresponsible behaviour does it?
5. Does it matter if your sector is quiet?
Yes, it does.
Yes, it does.
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Denti, that is easy said and hard to do once your past the "sell off by" date, roughly 35 to 40 in Europe.
Denti, you make it sound soo easy. It takes a great deal longer to validate as an ATCO in a diffrent ATC unit with a new employer than as a pilot changing to a different type with a new employer. Furthermore, most ATC organisations/companies will not take you on at 40, no matter what previous experience you have.
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For Slickster,
Ok. Quite Easy. Don't fly to Spain.
Best regards from a "chimp"
Ok. Quite Easy. Don't fly to Spain.
Best regards from a "chimp"
After my experience into IBZ the other night, give me no Spanish controllers, thanks very much. I'll do a better, and safer job on my own. Bunch of chimps.