Spanish ATC

[TBSC]

Depends how polite you are and if you call them with any small things or only in case if your are really in trouble. As far as I understand they are happier to "serve" airlines considering this as help and not a service must be done. Won't tell you bad examples though...

Ref. ATC not sending ready msg: they might be busy arranging babysitters.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Would 411A be right and there would be a certain bias (I'll let you guess which one it is) in this forum?

Now that IS funny - the word bias coming from the lips of a Spanish ATCO

[ant1]

Try again. I suggest you do some homework before posting.

[kick the tires]

Yesterday in Madrid........

ATC were conversational, polite, efficient on both ground and in air, gave direct routes, free speeds - all without us asking.

It really took the pressure of what is normally a stressful experience.

Thanks MAD ATC!

[p_perez]

Stress? Preassure?

kick the tires wrote:
It really took the pressure of what is normally a stressful experience.

ktt: you want to view an stressful experience, really feel the pressure ...?

Read this:
http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/416...ml#post5833827

and watch this:
YouTube - Acoso laboral de Aena a los controladores del Centro de Control de Torrejón y censura informativa


Those are the very same guys you are now thanking.


Saludos!

[Navigator33]

Station calling?

In all seriousness thanks for the eye opener. You can feel the tension coming from the movie.

[Chesty Morgan]

Jesus Christ do you lot really think you deserve any respect after that performance.

YOU ARE AT WORK. You are supposed to be expediting the safe and efficient flow of air traffic. Not shouting and screaming like little kids who have had their lollies taken away.

The next time I receive an instruction from Spanish ATC I will have to think long and hard about following it as I can no longer be sure that it's coming from somebody who is concentrating on his job or just trying to make a point.

Can I suggest that you ALL search for the definitions of professional, adult, mature and responsible.

[p_perez]

Grow up!

To studi: if a manager from your company ever dares to enter your company's plane's cockpit while you are at work, I bet you wouldn't be happy. Our control rooms are also resting places, and we have boards for our use. Part of our protest is because non-operational personal are not supposed to be allowed in the control room because they could disturb normal operation, which they did.


To Chesty: the very moment you enter Spanish airspace, you will be under my or one of my colleague's control; if you request descend or climb, you will do so only after you are cleared by me or one of my colleagues; if you are told to turn certain degrees or heading by me or one of my colleagues, you will comply; any request is suject to my or my colleagues authorisation; etc ... Get it?

I don't care what you do in your cockpit, either you decide to increase your situational awareness or dance a polka, as long as the previous is clear. If you don't like it, request other routes from your company.

Your hate would push you to criticise us even for breathing, and I'm fed up with it.

My respect to your fellow pilots who show the same to us. Saludos! for you.

[GarageYears]

Seriously, the video posted above reminds me of our common room during the last year of secondary school. I believe we were campaigning to have Coke (or was it Pepsi) sold at the snack bar... How this pathetic display is supposed to represent a professional work-place is beyond me, whether the root-issue is valid or not.

Unfortunately that question is unlikely to matter - if you run around and act like a bunch of kids, sticking notes to your back with tape (really), and scribbling hand-written notes with colored pencils, well, you deserve to treated like kids.

It belies belief that these people have the lives of thousands of people in their hands.

- GY

[Chesty Morgan]

you will comply

Oh will I? I'll remind you that I am the Commander of the aircraft and NOT you. If I consider one of your REQUESTS to be dangerous, for instance, if I can hear a childish squabble going on in the background I will consider but may not comply with your REQUEST.

Get it?

Now either push off or do your job like an adult, professional, grown up would.

Perez how can you defend the actions of the 2 females and 1 male who, in the first 10 seconds of the video, are paying absolutely no attention to their radar screens. And the male who stands up and starts arguing with the AENA bloke> The same male is then seen about 20 feet away from his screen shouting, whistling and arguing. Is he paying attention to the radar screen? IS he going to help me in an emergency? Is he keeping me away from terrain or other traffic? NO HE IS NOT. You are dangerous and shouldn't be anywhere near a radar screen.

[Tight Seat]

Aviate, navigate.....whats the last one?


p-perez,

Sir, if you tell me to fly into a hill, I will not comply.

[TBSC]

@ p_perez

the very moment you enter Spanish airspace, you will be under my or one of my colleague's control

Pls tell us how you dare to call it "control"? The guy in the checkered shirt leaves his station for at least a minute. Hope that you and your colleagues will never be passengers on an aircraft under "control" of ATC staff behaving like this...

[p_perez]

Apologies

Hello again:

just a few words to state my apologies for the tone of my previous post, to all of you alluded, either if that was my intention or not. As these apologies could not be understood without the mentioned post (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...ml#post5835391), I´m not going to delete or edit it.

I´ll try not to charge again against the next red cape waved in front of me. I don´t think this is a matter of "cojones". I´ll keep on posting information about Spanish ATC as soon as it reaches my hands.


Ahora sí: saludos para todos.


P. S. 1. Regarding people mentioned in the video not attending their radar screens, well they couldn´t: they are also AENA staff that are ordered to act as witnesses (in case they file a disciplinary action against some employee) every time the company anticipates there will be a reaction against one of their abuses.

P. S. 2. We know when we can distract our attention from the screen for a few seconds, as any pilot knows when he can solve a Sudoku, or finish his tax report on the laptop, or even take a nap, during a flight. Please, don´t talk so easily about something you absolutely ignore: I have also flown in the cockpit, talking with both pilots face to face, with apparently no attention to the plane´s controls.

[His dudeness]

This is what pperez posted as a spanish atco roster on another thread:

AENA published the rosters for august last july 21th, applying the new 10-day notice for Spanish ATCO´s. And here is an example:

1. Vacation
2. 1500->2200
3. 0800->1500 and 2200->0000
4. 0000->0800
5. 1500->2200
6. 0800->1500
7. Day off
8. 1500->2200
9. 0800->1500 and 2200->0000
10. 0000->0800
11. Day off
12. 1500->2200
13. 1500->2200
14. 1500->2200
15. 0800->1500
16. Day off
17. Day off
18. 0800->1500
19. 1500->2200
20. 1500->2200
21. 0800->1500 and 2200->0000
22. 0000->0800
23. 1500->2200
24. 0800->1500
25. 0800->1500
26. 1500->2200
27. 0800->1500 and 2200->0000
28. 0000->0800
29. 0800->1500
30. 0800->1500
31. 0800->1500

It sums 194 hrs. in 30 days, with only 4 days off. Notice the last 14 days working in a row, with no day off.

I think we can all agree that we would not work such a roster. This is dngerous, anyone working this kind of hours in such a job can´t be up to his full capabilities.

Having said that, the slow-go you obviously do, is not generating the pressure on the ones that can change your situation. What do you think the spanish people would say to 7 days of no airtravel - meaning no tourists and no travel - in the high season. That might actually help the situation, getting talks going that lead to a workable solution.

pperez, my father was an atco and at home he never spoke about an atco having an emergency that required the immidiate help and work of a pilot. The other way round happened from time to time. Food for thought, maybe?

[N-1]

ATC's harassment at work

Hi to all;

This link may clarify many of your questions:

YouTube - Acoso laboral de Aena a los controladores del Centro de Control de Torrejón y censura informativa

Spanish Goverment is in a desperate need for money, mainly because their wrong economic policy.

So, now controllers are the Socialist's objective for salary reduction, just to demostrate the 4.600.000 unemployed people that part of their high salary will go to public subsides (which is of course false).

Please note that Mr. José Blanco, the Minister responible for AENA and Civil Aviation has no University Degree necessary, even to apply for a job quite under the position he is roling . This is what we have and the people ruling Spain actually....... No further coments

[Tight Seat]

So with the above roster, the way you attack the problem is to absolve yourselves of anything but basic duties?

I'm completely *****ed, its a summer roster,thats how charter airlines make the money. My life is only made worse by w@nkers not willing to do their duty.

Question? You tell me I have to fly flight plan route, so why do you give me a wrong ( lower) level? If you want to die by the rules , at least apply them .

[Denti]

Witnessed something funny yesterday in PMI: ATC applied 2 minutes wake turbulence separation between 738s, told the succeeding every time to be cautious because of the wake turbulences caused by the 2 minutes prior departed HEAVY 738 in front. The A320 in between all those 738s was not deemed a heavy though, wonder if the A330s were treated as such.

I know they always called a departing 738 a heavy which was always some source of amusement, however seeing them playing the part to the end and that way running out of time for some slotted departures is not really funny at all.

[kick the tires]

pperez,

Thanks for the link, but it has done nothing for your cause. The respect I was building for your plight has disappeared in a 2 minute video clip.

its just not in my culture to behave the way you guys do; you are at a professional place of work. The time to vent your frustration is not in front of the radar screens when you are responsible for the deconfliction of tens of aircraft and thousands of lives - even if the actual controllers remain seated, how do they concentrate with all that background noise and commotion?

I understand your situation, I agree you have a justified case, but I wouldnt give too many people that link.

[Thunderbug]

That link is scary.........

My spanish is not good enough to work out who is doing what to who - but the fact that all this is kicking off in an operational area fills me with utter horror.

Common guys get a grip - sure there is a lot going on in your area, but keep it off the frontline. Demonstrate some level of professionalism. Have your punch up in the canteen or in your local tapas bar - Not in the Ops room.

[30W]

p-perez,

Whilst most have both concern for your fight with management, the distribution of the Ops room video clip really does no good for your cause, and in deed is extremely worrying for both your users and for yourselves.....

I know frustrations and tempers are at boiling point amongst you all, but the video clip shows a TOTALLY unprofessional workplace. The proximity of industrial propaganda to controller workstations etc is totally unacceptable in my opinion. The distraction level provided by yourselves, WITHIN an operational area is totally unprofessional. Your employer DOES have the right, and indeed DUTY to control what distraction lies within the close proximity of the operational workstations.

Imagine how this video would look in a court of law following an incident/accident in Spanish airspace (we all hope that doesn't happen!).

Based on the video one of your colleagues has posted, you risk not only safety, but also your own licenses... controllers who have left an operational position would be legally culprable, with all the sad ramifications that involves.

AENA, equally culprable, could also right now use the video if they so choose to run disciplinary hearings against your colleagues for their failure to carry out their professional duty whilst 'operational'.

I thank you for coming on here to share the awareness of the current Spanish situation, and help us understand the issues involved. Warn your colleagues however, that release of such videos is in itself an extremely dangerous way of highlighting 'the cause', and could well come back to bite them.....

Saludos
30W