Spanish ATC
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
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We will lose our jobs and those associated with our industry.
Folks will just travel somewhere else other than Spain...tough sh*t for the Spanish hotel industry...I expect many could care less.
IE: the world does not revolve around Spain.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 55
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Put them to work at the NY TRACON for a few weeks - with an experienced ATC standing over their shoulder of course, then let's see how much they appreciate their own sectors back home in the old country.
Remember was Ronnie Reagan fired all the US Air Traffic Controllers and then offered them new jobs with different Ts and Cs? I can see this happening in Spain - interesting times ahead!
A4, totally agree - just had direct DENUT tonight with about 250 nm to go!
Also as a comparison when I worked in the Railway Industry as a Signaller if we delayed a trained unnecessarily then Network Rail had to pay money to the operating companies who were delayed - so much per minute depending on the type of line etc. The airlines pay for ATC services. If delays are proved to be unnecessary then, on a similar basis, the State concerned should pay money to the airlines.
Have to admit it's now becoming a royal pain in the ar$e to fly through France / Spain. Last night back from Germany....... direct DENUT - close to 250nm. The reason of "sector overload" is BS.
Also as a comparison when I worked in the Railway Industry as a Signaller if we delayed a trained unnecessarily then Network Rail had to pay money to the operating companies who were delayed - so much per minute depending on the type of line etc. The airlines pay for ATC services. If delays are proved to be unnecessary then, on a similar basis, the State concerned should pay money to the airlines.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: France
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Get our message across politely!
We all know there are rules about our use of the R/T. so...
Cut out the pleasantries ( good morning , Mubuenas, Goodbye etc) Arrive on frequency and ask for Direct to the Spanish exit point of their FIR or Final approach fix if inbound. IF we all do this they will soon understand that we are (spanish flights included) collectively fed up with their intransigence.
Our passengers, our crew and our companies deserve better from Spain, over to YOU to get the message across.
Cut out the pleasantries ( good morning , Mubuenas, Goodbye etc) Arrive on frequency and ask for Direct to the Spanish exit point of their FIR or Final approach fix if inbound. IF we all do this they will soon understand that we are (spanish flights included) collectively fed up with their intransigence.
Our passengers, our crew and our companies deserve better from Spain, over to YOU to get the message across.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Europe
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Put them to work at the NY TRACON for a few weeks - with an experienced ATC standing over their shoulder of course, then let's see how much they appreciate their own sectors back home in the old country.
Also as a comparison when I worked in the railway industry as a signaller if we delayed a train unnecessarily then Network Rail had to pay money to the operating companies who were delayed - so much per minute depending on the type of line etc.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the south
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Experienced some appalling spanish atc recently. controller ranting on the radio about how hard he works and it's not his fault. However 8 aircraft waiting over 1.5 hrs for slots that originated at the airport and they all had the same slot - I do mean exactly the same ! The farce of all 8 trying to push for the same slot and get airborne was unbelievable. Calls to company confirmed slot was originating at the airport but controller insisted it was the fault of the French, or anybody he could think of. Holding airlines to ransome has got to stop
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
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FPL adherence is coming, wether we like it or not
European ATC as a whole and the more southerners especially need to be governed in a customer oriented way. They (Eurocontrol and their parts like CFMU etc) are far to independent. Nobody actually can really find the real reasons behind delays, let alone make them liable for it. And that is exactly the prob IMO. Make the agencies pay if there would be a workable way around a restriction (not saying we should overload the controllers), make them proof a restriction was unavoidable. Make them being customer friendly. After all we pay them.
So much idiotic generalisation and cr@p from so-called pilots who are obviously totally ignorant about ATC and it's increasingly complex operational and political problems. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at some of the rubbish I've read above.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: British
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A note to ATC at ALC (LEAL). Thanks so much for sitting around doing c@ck all yesterday. I think not only my 160 pax , but the other 10 or so aircraft sitting waiting for slots would like to congratulate you on making yourselves the laughing stock of international aviation.
The excuse for the 2 hour plus slots, ' we have only me in the tower and we are very busy'! Busy my backside. Only landings for one 40 min period.
The only slight satisfaction I got was pumping out complex hydrocarbons out of the APU for 3 hours. Up yours I say.
The excuse for the 2 hour plus slots, ' we have only me in the tower and we are very busy'! Busy my backside. Only landings for one 40 min period.
The only slight satisfaction I got was pumping out complex hydrocarbons out of the APU for 3 hours. Up yours I say.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: France
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AVMAN and CRISS
Yes, other places do have slots , BUT not for political or industrial relations reasons. At least the French go on strike for a known period of time and then get back to normal ish! Next one wednesday I think!
Palma the other day, 5 plus aircraft with the same slot time all trying to push and taxi at once, That really is brilliant ATC!
Barcelona the other night "sorry we have lost your slot" as we taxi out.... Fantastic.
Our passengers get to destination but 3 hrs late, missing the last train, bus etc all due to Spanish ATC.
We, as pilots, are really NOT impressed by your lack of willingness or ability to play your part in restoring the publics faith in aviation as a safe and normally reliable means of transport.
You are meant to be HELPING us to do our job, not obstructing us.
Palma the other day, 5 plus aircraft with the same slot time all trying to push and taxi at once, That really is brilliant ATC!
Barcelona the other night "sorry we have lost your slot" as we taxi out.... Fantastic.
Our passengers get to destination but 3 hrs late, missing the last train, bus etc all due to Spanish ATC.
We, as pilots, are really NOT impressed by your lack of willingness or ability to play your part in restoring the publics faith in aviation as a safe and normally reliable means of transport.
You are meant to be HELPING us to do our job, not obstructing us.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
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This thread makes most of you look like children!
You guys don't know a sh*t about what is happening in Spain and the ATC. It is quite a complex matter, and you should be glad that the ATC people haven't made a real strike.
Imagine the russians lauch the nuclear missiles on the USA, and the USA starts a diplomatic offensive against Russia. That is exactly what is happening in Spain. The government has smashed the ATC. The government hast kicked the wasp nest, and the wasps don't want to attack the government because they are afraid of the consequences! Can you imagine?
And there is a campaing in the media against them, accusing them of all the things you can imagine. They are so afraid! All because there is a lot of people interested in buying the spanish state air navigation agency, AENA, which is one of the best bussiness in the world. And the ATC is the excuse they use to make people believe that it is all a mess, and that in private hands everything would be OK.
They simply want to steal the golden eggs chicken, That all. And use to ATCs to achieve it.
So what are the ATC guys doing? They are not striking, because that would be the excuse the government needs to sell AENA to their close friends. They are simply working to the limit of their capacity because the government hastn hired a controller in many years. The fact is that they are extremely overloaded, and the slots in this season, the busiest of the year in Spain, is just a natural consequence.
With the actual conditions, only in the realm of science fiction there is going to be a summer without regulations.
So, guys, don't try to solve the problems of the world all alone. And if that is what you want, Why don't you discuss the middle east problems? You know about that exactly the same as the spanish ATC problem: NOTHING. So go ahead.
And a last though:
Sh*t for Europe!
You guys don't know a sh*t about what is happening in Spain and the ATC. It is quite a complex matter, and you should be glad that the ATC people haven't made a real strike.
Imagine the russians lauch the nuclear missiles on the USA, and the USA starts a diplomatic offensive against Russia. That is exactly what is happening in Spain. The government has smashed the ATC. The government hast kicked the wasp nest, and the wasps don't want to attack the government because they are afraid of the consequences! Can you imagine?
And there is a campaing in the media against them, accusing them of all the things you can imagine. They are so afraid! All because there is a lot of people interested in buying the spanish state air navigation agency, AENA, which is one of the best bussiness in the world. And the ATC is the excuse they use to make people believe that it is all a mess, and that in private hands everything would be OK.
They simply want to steal the golden eggs chicken, That all. And use to ATCs to achieve it.
So what are the ATC guys doing? They are not striking, because that would be the excuse the government needs to sell AENA to their close friends. They are simply working to the limit of their capacity because the government hastn hired a controller in many years. The fact is that they are extremely overloaded, and the slots in this season, the busiest of the year in Spain, is just a natural consequence.
With the actual conditions, only in the realm of science fiction there is going to be a summer without regulations.
So, guys, don't try to solve the problems of the world all alone. And if that is what you want, Why don't you discuss the middle east problems? You know about that exactly the same as the spanish ATC problem: NOTHING. So go ahead.
And a last though:
Sh*t for Europe!
Join Date: May 2004
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They are so afraid! All because there is a lot of people interested in buying the spanish state air navigation agency, AENA, which is one of the best bussiness in the world
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Unfortunatly Microburst2002, if it was Spanish ATC that was trying to launch a nuclear missile, the bloody thing would miss its slot and end up in the silo for 2 hours.....
You think that you're going to get sympathy for the airline industry after the last 3 years of trading you're barking up the wrong donkey.
You think that you're going to get sympathy for the airline industry after the last 3 years of trading you're barking up the wrong donkey.
Gender Faculty Specialist
They are simply working to the limit of their capacity
You think that you're going to get sympathy for the airline industry after the last 3 years of trading you're barking up the wrong donkey.
If the "normal" service was anything to get excited about ten you might get some sympathy. However it seems that Spanish ATCOs have been paid bucketloads for a third world service. All European nationality pilots have stories regarding spanish ATC. From being given taxi instructions at 100 kts at PMI to being blatantly ignored by Delivery at Madrid, whilst Spanish clearances are being given out.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Working morale...
Micro...
I don’t know what kind of paranoia or phobia you’re suffering from, but the drugs you’re taking are obviously worsening the situation even more…
There must be a certain element of truth in the heated discussions about Spanish and French ATCOs performance and this is more likely related to the general working morale in both countries rather than an “overload” condition. As clients, we receive excellent service from the really overloaded British, Dutch, Maastricht, German, Scandinavian, Swiss and other European ATC centers while operating in your airspaces is among occasional exemptions just a disaster.
The time for your golden ancient privileges is over and the longer you continue to exhibit the ancient and present working morale, the faster you’ll see AENA being privatized and its workforce “exchanged”. More work for less pay and retirement with age 65 is also your destiny. Either you comply or “die”…
F.I.
I don’t know what kind of paranoia or phobia you’re suffering from, but the drugs you’re taking are obviously worsening the situation even more…
There must be a certain element of truth in the heated discussions about Spanish and French ATCOs performance and this is more likely related to the general working morale in both countries rather than an “overload” condition. As clients, we receive excellent service from the really overloaded British, Dutch, Maastricht, German, Scandinavian, Swiss and other European ATC centers while operating in your airspaces is among occasional exemptions just a disaster.
The time for your golden ancient privileges is over and the longer you continue to exhibit the ancient and present working morale, the faster you’ll see AENA being privatized and its workforce “exchanged”. More work for less pay and retirement with age 65 is also your destiny. Either you comply or “die”…
F.I.