ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
Join Date: Nov 2007
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No name calling, slander, or anything that could hurt you if they decide to get nasty.
And what about a supposedly independant body getting oh so cosy with one airline in particular?
I hope everything works out for you guys and I truly hope that you don't let the IAA and especially Ryanair get away with some of their scandalous comments in the run up to the big meetings.
And I'm still trying to work out exactly what the point of DFC's postings are...........
it's almost as if he's an IAA management stooge......
Join Date: Dec 2007
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DFCs problems
And I'm still trying to work out exactly what the point of DFC's postings are........... it's almost as if he's an IAA management stooge......
it's almost as if he's an IAA management stooge......
Given the lengths to which the IAA went to leak info to all and sundry, i'm pretty sure that he wasn't in receipt of any info, as his was useless/wrong or outdated. I'm sure he's off annoying people in other threads within PPrune, this is how he gets his kicks.
Never was there a man more in need of getting laid!
I for one will miss him when this thread closes down, he's been the only thing that shows us that there are worse things out there than the IAA
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I've been on to the data protection people and they say that for people using work computers there may be an issue but only if offensive material was being accessed or distributed or if the work computers were used in facilitating bullying. I think we're all safe on that so Unless the IAA state that in their acceptable usage policy that pprune or similiar sites are forbidden they cannot object to staff posting on such sites. For those of us that only access pprune from our homes and personal machines they cant do a thing.
It sounds to me as if this is just posturing from the IAA and I would guess that they know their arses are out the window with their accusations of "orchestrated sick leave" so in their puny minds they they think they'll find evidence of that conspiracy here.
If you've been posting from work you're covered by Data Protection and are not obliged to confirm or deny your identity, it's up to them to prove malpractice.
If you post from home you can tell them to F**K right off! and that by even asking you about your activities on this site they are in breach of a whole raft of privacy legislation.
Stay Happy, focussed and united!
We beat them and this nonsense is the death throes of a bitter and vindictive employer still looking to villify the staff
Unless the IAA state that in their acceptable usage policy that pprune or similiar sites are forbidden they cannot object to staff posting on such sites. For those of us that only access pprune from our homes and personal machines they cant do a thing.It sounds to me as if this is just posturing from the IAA and I would guess that they know their arses are out the window with their accusations of "orchestrated sick leave" so in their puny minds they they think they'll find evidence of that conspiracy here.
If you've been posting from work you're covered by Data Protection and are not obliged to confirm or deny your identity, it's up to them to prove malpractice.
If you post from home you can tell them to F**K right off! and that by even asking you about your activities on this site they are in breach of a whole raft of privacy legislation.
Stay Happy, focussed and united!
We beat them and this nonsense is the death throes of a bitter and vindictive employer still looking to villify the staff
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Sorry for the delay. Even DFC has to work some time!
ock1f,
I can bet that with two ATCOs sitting in the tower from 2 AM to 4 AM with absolutely no traffic at least one of them will lower their hand and make rapid to a fro movements on the lower part of their body.
Perhaps you are right it is not scratching of the ass!
--------
The rights regarding leave are something that every employee should be aware of. The most important part in relation to this debate is the one where it clearly states the employer is the one who has control over when leave is taken.
If staff can take the leave they want when they want then it is clear that the organisation is over staffed. Most well staffed companies rely on points systems or frist come first served or if you get xx perid this year you can not bid for it next year etc.
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Dee Mac,
I know the items that are tested by practical demonstration and the items that form part of the verbal assessment.
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norby,
Lots of people here on PPRuNe know who I am.
Doesn't change what my opinion is.
I am sure that your opinion would not change if you knew who I was either.
Therefore who I am makes no difference in the debate does it?
Unless of course you would wish to apply external pressure (bullying) against a dissenting voice like that applied against others in this dispute?
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Using computers at work for non-work related issues such as PPRuNe is never going to go down well with management. Every IT policy has the old "use for work related matters only" and I can't see calling people "a piece of sh1t" being a good example of how a company's staff should deal with their customers whatever the reason.
The usual way that companies catch people is by either having a log-in and then matching the use with the login or in the case of places such as ATC with clear records of exactly where staff are during a shift, matching use with those who were not plugged in but were in the building.
The simple message has to be never PPRuNe in work........unless of course you are the boss.
Regards,
DFC
PS - Macker, you are correct. Nothing more in the media or the press, dropping out of sight here. Seems the world does not care less as long as things operate (almost) normally.
ock1f,
I can bet that with two ATCOs sitting in the tower from 2 AM to 4 AM with absolutely no traffic at least one of them will lower their hand and make rapid to a fro movements on the lower part of their body.
Perhaps you are right it is not scratching of the ass!
--------
The rights regarding leave are something that every employee should be aware of. The most important part in relation to this debate is the one where it clearly states the employer is the one who has control over when leave is taken.
If staff can take the leave they want when they want then it is clear that the organisation is over staffed. Most well staffed companies rely on points systems or frist come first served or if you get xx perid this year you can not bid for it next year etc.
-----------
Dee Mac,
I know the items that are tested by practical demonstration and the items that form part of the verbal assessment.
---------
norby,
For all you DFC fans, we should know exactly who he is very soon
Doesn't change what my opinion is.
I am sure that your opinion would not change if you knew who I was either.
Therefore who I am makes no difference in the debate does it?
Unless of course you would wish to apply external pressure (bullying) against a dissenting voice like that applied against others in this dispute?
-----------
Using computers at work for non-work related issues such as PPRuNe is never going to go down well with management. Every IT policy has the old "use for work related matters only" and I can't see calling people "a piece of sh1t" being a good example of how a company's staff should deal with their customers whatever the reason.
The usual way that companies catch people is by either having a log-in and then matching the use with the login or in the case of places such as ATC with clear records of exactly where staff are during a shift, matching use with those who were not plugged in but were in the building.
The simple message has to be never PPRuNe in work........unless of course you are the boss.
Regards,
DFC
PS - Macker, you are correct. Nothing more in the media or the press, dropping out of sight here. Seems the world does not care less as long as things operate (almost) normally.
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If staff can take the leave they want when they want then it is clear that the organisation is over staffed. Most well staffed companies rely on points systems or frist come first served or if you get xx perid this year you can not bid for it next year etc.
Using computers at work for non-work related issues such as PPRuNe is never going to go down well with management. Every IT policy has the old "use for work related matters only" and I can't see calling people "a piece of sh1t" being a good example of how a company's staff should deal with their customers whatever the reason.
watpiktch
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And so the rabble fall quiet.
The Sword of Damocles swings.
Silence grows like a cancer.
Restriction of expression - the most dangerous of all subversions.
The Sword of Damocles swings.
Silence grows like a cancer.
Restriction of expression - the most dangerous of all subversions.
Last edited by Robot1; 3rd Mar 2008 at 17:27. Reason: I've been educated
Join Date: Oct 2006
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The end is not yet nigh.....
We may have said a lot but round 2 has yet to be fought.Lest us not forget that the "package" has yet to be delivered and indeed voted on.
Rosters have yet to be agreed.Management are still playing hard ball with both.The deadline for roster agreement as per LRC recommendation has come and passed without any agreement.There may be a temporary lull in proceedings but keep your ears to the ground.Rosters form an extremely important part of our working lives and we should NOT accept something that only satisfies SOME of our serious concerns.We have Roster Principles and Working Time Acts that MUST be adhered to.No bending the rules to hide the fact that we are still chronically short staffed.
If we have concerns about our rosters then we must air them.Speak up.
Rosters have yet to be agreed.Management are still playing hard ball with both.The deadline for roster agreement as per LRC recommendation has come and passed without any agreement.There may be a temporary lull in proceedings but keep your ears to the ground.Rosters form an extremely important part of our working lives and we should NOT accept something that only satisfies SOME of our serious concerns.We have Roster Principles and Working Time Acts that MUST be adhered to.No bending the rules to hide the fact that we are still chronically short staffed.
If we have concerns about our rosters then we must air them.Speak up.
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no roster is perfect
I would like to see proper fatigue breaks installed in the shannon roster. none of this one hour on ,10 min off ,then another 2 hours on , crap. That's just abusing the 10 mins accrued time off per hour worked, rule. No fatigue break should be less than 30 mins, which is standard in dub and crk. An earlier finish on both night duties would be great as fatigue sets well in by the end of both nights. the prolonged agony of sitting in position from 8 til 930 pisses most people off. it's definitely the longest 90 mins of the week. the tail end of both night duties is when most incidents/occurences take place as the controllers are well and truly spent. alot of people have difficulty resting and recouperating after the first night duty as they gain their second wind as the morning progresses.
is there any possibility of just one night duty? wishful thinking! I would like to hear what the rest of the ''infidels'' think.
is there any possibility of just one night duty? wishful thinking! I would like to hear what the rest of the ''infidels'' think.
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Macker,
Let me see......take a pay cut, loose job security, move, give up the office in the sunshine, have to pay top dollar for decent airline tickets when I go on holiday, not be able to retire as soon as I want, and on top of that be thought of by the public as a money grabbing lazy civil servant?.............No Thanks.
Has the traffic increased since last week?
No military experience. Unless you can count discussions regarding civil military co-ordination procedures or airspace.
You will have Alpha back kicking pilot ass before you get me to leave the sunshine for the pit.
Regards,
DFC
This is true DFC. But you would still be most welcome to apply for the forthcoming direct entry ATCO positions in the IAA. We'll take anyone at this stage!
It is, however, a little busier than the last time you may have darkened these doors.
If, as I suspect, you have military origins, you will understand what is in store for you when I say that you will be "led out at dawn"...
...to do EIDW Ground!!
...to do EIDW Ground!!
You will have Alpha back kicking pilot ass before you get me to leave the sunshine for the pit.
Regards,
DFC
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You will have Alpha back kicking pilot ass before you get me to leave the sunshine for the pit.
A/C: (irritated after Alpha told him to get a move on as he taxied out) ‘Would YOU like to come down here and taxi this aircraft?
Alpha: ‘Well one of us bloody better!’
Time merchant
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I have just received an e-mail from the representative of Union Syndicale at Eurocontrol (Union Sydicale is the trade union representing European Commission employees).
The e-mail, which was sent to all members, is a copy of the page from Ryanairs website which begins:
"Highly paid public servants should not be allowed to close Irish airports as they seek an overtime payment of €1,200 per day!!)....."
It is preceded by a simple "FYI" as if it is passing on a statement of fact.
This defies belief on a number of levels.
1) It's just bare faced cheek for anyone representing the European Commission to refer to "highly paid public servants" in this disparaging manner.
2) How strange that a trade union is circulating propaganda from a company that itself discourages trade union mambership.
3) This trade union must number amongst its paying members former Dublin ATCOs, and definitely a number of ATCOs from other countries.
4) Union Syndicale have not circulated any statement from the Union representing the Dublin ATCOs.
5) It offers no opinion on this information.
If anyone would like to forward a publishable statement for transmission I will happily pass it on.
The e-mail, which was sent to all members, is a copy of the page from Ryanairs website which begins:
"Highly paid public servants should not be allowed to close Irish airports as they seek an overtime payment of €1,200 per day!!)....."
It is preceded by a simple "FYI" as if it is passing on a statement of fact.
This defies belief on a number of levels.
1) It's just bare faced cheek for anyone representing the European Commission to refer to "highly paid public servants" in this disparaging manner.
2) How strange that a trade union is circulating propaganda from a company that itself discourages trade union mambership.
3) This trade union must number amongst its paying members former Dublin ATCOs, and definitely a number of ATCOs from other countries.
4) Union Syndicale have not circulated any statement from the Union representing the Dublin ATCOs.
5) It offers no opinion on this information.
If anyone would like to forward a publishable statement for transmission I will happily pass it on.
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THE GREAT OPPORTUNITY!
This email and information on Ryanair site give an excellent opportunity for every ATCO in IAA.
Your answer should be:
Yes, we made mistake . We asked for 1200EUR per overtime shift,but latter on we realised that there is too many poor people in the world, especially among top management in aviation industry.
Having consider overall situation all Irish ATCOs will stop further negotiation with the management relating to overtime pay.
As it is not fair to take 1200 EUR per overtime shift while others flying only bussiness class we announced next statement according to the previous chapter:
NO MORE OVERTIME SHIFTS!
Irish ATCOs
This email and information on Ryanair site give an excellent opportunity for every ATCO in IAA.
Your answer should be:
Yes, we made mistake . We asked for 1200EUR per overtime shift,but latter on we realised that there is too many poor people in the world, especially among top management in aviation industry.
Having consider overall situation all Irish ATCOs will stop further negotiation with the management relating to overtime pay.
As it is not fair to take 1200 EUR per overtime shift while others flying only bussiness class we announced next statement according to the previous chapter:
NO MORE OVERTIME SHIFTS!
Irish ATCOs
Time merchant
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After a brief exchange of e-mails the Rep for Union Syndicale has asked to have a statement from the Irish ATCOs which he will forward to all members.
So would anyone care to send me a PM stating their official position and I will forward it for circulation?
So would anyone care to send me a PM stating their official position and I will forward it for circulation?
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if only
flowman,
I would relish the oppurtunity to edit press releases and even to lower myself to publish my repudiation of others press releases.
Alas, I must remain silent unless directed otherwise......
For now though, did MOL tell anyone that he pays "hello" money to new employees in the form of a New Joiners Allowance. about E1,500 over 6 months, I think.
Thorisgod.
I would relish the oppurtunity to edit press releases and even to lower myself to publish my repudiation of others press releases.
Alas, I must remain silent unless directed otherwise......
For now though, did MOL tell anyone that he pays "hello" money to new employees in the form of a New Joiners Allowance. about E1,500 over 6 months, I think.
Thorisgod.
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Flowman
Anyone who has posted in public has already analysed and repudiated all of the scandalous press releases from rIAAnair and our own employers the IAA.
Let's not forget that rIAAnair publicly stated that they were getting their information in the form of letters from the IAA and a "scource" involved with the confidential Labour Relations Commission negotiation. rIAAnair then divulged that confidential information in the Irish media.
Do not ask us to write privately to Union Syndicate but print out this thread as everything that could vindicate our position has already been written on these pages and there are links to the disgraceful IAA press releases and many others.
Norby
Anyone who has posted in public has already analysed and repudiated all of the scandalous press releases from rIAAnair and our own employers the IAA.
Let's not forget that rIAAnair publicly stated that they were getting their information in the form of letters from the IAA and a "scource" involved with the confidential Labour Relations Commission negotiation. rIAAnair then divulged that confidential information in the Irish media.
Do not ask us to write privately to Union Syndicate but print out this thread as everything that could vindicate our position has already been written on these pages and there are links to the disgraceful IAA press releases and many others.
Norby
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'Alas I must remain silent...'
"Censorship is a tool of those who have the need to hide actualities from themselves and others.
Their fear is only their inability to face what is real.
Somewhere in their upbringing they were shielded against the total facts of our experience.
They were taught to look one way, when many ways exist."
Charles Bukowski
Their fear is only their inability to face what is real.
Somewhere in their upbringing they were shielded against the total facts of our experience.
They were taught to look one way, when many ways exist."
Charles Bukowski