ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ireland
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Stand-by duties
Does anyone know with regard to the rostered stand-by duty, If you need to be off for this and you havent organised a swap for it, what if any is the mechanism for handling it? 
Why is the ballot being delayed.
I understood that the 5/3 roster was given.
Details of type and duties of station specific elements to be agreed locally.
What has this level of detail to do with the LRC recommendation?
I understood that the 5/3 roster was given.
Details of type and duties of station specific elements to be agreed locally.
What has this level of detail to do with the LRC recommendation?
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Keep it up
Wat is the lates situation Dublin. We in India also underwent similar or worse treatment from the management. I can fully understand wat is going in there. Keep it up mates and good luck to all
Join Date: May 2006
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Yes it has gone very quiet-we are only heard when things aren't ok-normally we are good worker bee's who just want to get on with their jobs.
First to all those in the northern and southern hemisphere's thanks for all your support. It was noticed and appreciated.
While open to contradiction on this things are almost sorted. There should be 22 to 24 direct entries on the way shortly (hopefully) We have one class of 36 students who have their first month just completed and now our union in conjunction with management will have a say when each next class will start. The next class is earmarked for the first quarter of 2009 or earlier if the direct atcos numbers aren't reached. Our rosters have had a shake up too and we now have hand-over times built in as well.
So our primary concern was lack of staff and all the associated problems that brought with it - it would appear that is now in hand -for the time being anyway.
The overtime /call -in issue has been solved too with the huge amount of 42 euro to be payed weekly to the people who sign up to giving the company 12 rest days in order to be on-call. Show's Up O leary to be the misinformed fool that he is!
There is a hold up at the moment with the rosters in dub having hit a bump in the road. As we operate a "nothing is agreed until evertything is agreed policy" then all the other stuff is in limbo too. But hopefully it will all be sorted shortly.
In the end coomon sense prevailed at the top and hopefully the promises regarding staff numbers will be upheld.
Ock1f
First to all those in the northern and southern hemisphere's thanks for all your support. It was noticed and appreciated.
While open to contradiction on this things are almost sorted. There should be 22 to 24 direct entries on the way shortly (hopefully) We have one class of 36 students who have their first month just completed and now our union in conjunction with management will have a say when each next class will start. The next class is earmarked for the first quarter of 2009 or earlier if the direct atcos numbers aren't reached. Our rosters have had a shake up too and we now have hand-over times built in as well.
So our primary concern was lack of staff and all the associated problems that brought with it - it would appear that is now in hand -for the time being anyway.
The overtime /call -in issue has been solved too with the huge amount of 42 euro to be payed weekly to the people who sign up to giving the company 12 rest days in order to be on-call. Show's Up O leary to be the misinformed fool that he is!
There is a hold up at the moment with the rosters in dub having hit a bump in the road. As we operate a "nothing is agreed until evertything is agreed policy" then all the other stuff is in limbo too. But hopefully it will all be sorted shortly.
In the end coomon sense prevailed at the top and hopefully the promises regarding staff numbers will be upheld.
Ock1f
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Overtime is no longer a safety issue because it is better paid and there will be possible changes somewhere in the future.
Direct entries progression to be carefully limited by union pressure on management to ensure that they do not get ahead of the most junior current member of staff.
In other words - same old, same old.
It is the teachers turn now - the annual run up to exam time dispute season is near at hand. Never let it be said that unions will hold us to ransom just to get more money.
Regards,
DFC
Direct entries progression to be carefully limited by union pressure on management to ensure that they do not get ahead of the most junior current member of staff.
In other words - same old, same old.
It is the teachers turn now - the annual run up to exam time dispute season is near at hand. Never let it be said that unions will hold us to ransom just to get more money.
Regards,
DFC
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You again dfc-just woken up i take it judging by the verbal runny stuff coming out of your mouth
No- overtime now strictly regulated not like the free for all there was before. This free for all was well documented earlier in the thread-go read up on it. It was a safety issue - and to say otherwise is wrong.
I cant be arsed to tell you what the new regulations are as you won't listen anyway but the for everyone else who is interested it puts much needed caps on how much overtime/calliins can be done per twist per month and per year. And again for your information dfc the overtime is not better paid its exactly the same rate as before. The only thing is that 42 euro a week is paid for whoever wants to give 12 days to the company . Not a great deal of money at all. Especially not to a high flying idiot like you.
Direct entries progression to be carefully limited by union pressure on management to ensure that they do not get ahead of the most junior current member of staff
You obviously dont absorb anything you read.
wrong again-major changes have happened because of our actions. Changes for the good-not only for us as controllers but also for you guys driving the bus as we look after you and aslo by extension the travelling public.
So go crawl under whatever neanderthal rock you woke up under this morning.
7*
Overtime is no longer a safety issue because it is better paid and there will be possible changes somewhere in the future
I cant be arsed to tell you what the new regulations are as you won't listen anyway but the for everyone else who is interested it puts much needed caps on how much overtime/calliins can be done per twist per month and per year. And again for your information dfc the overtime is not better paid its exactly the same rate as before. The only thing is that 42 euro a week is paid for whoever wants to give 12 days to the company . Not a great deal of money at all. Especially not to a high flying idiot like you.
Direct entries progression to be carefully limited by union pressure on management to ensure that they do not get ahead of the most junior current member of staff
In other words - same old, same old.
So go crawl under whatever neanderthal rock you woke up under this morning.
7*
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same old-sameold
DFC, if you are a pilot then you are probably earning 3 times more an hour than I am. Which is still 1 1/2 times my overtime pay.
So i guess you are right, it is the same old same old.
Those who earn more begrudging lesser earners improving themselves.
I don't expect you to care that we are now operating a safer, more healthy and happier work environment. I do expect you to take every oppurtunity to put down others.
Direct-entry ATCO's are being hired at a pay level on our scale commensurate with their years experience. So keep looking for holes in our arguments but the only hole you'll see is your own because your head is so far up it.
Thorisgod
So i guess you are right, it is the same old same old.
Those who earn more begrudging lesser earners improving themselves.
I don't expect you to care that we are now operating a safer, more healthy and happier work environment. I do expect you to take every oppurtunity to put down others.
Direct-entry ATCO's are being hired at a pay level on our scale commensurate with their years experience. So keep looking for holes in our arguments but the only hole you'll see is your own because your head is so far up it.
Thorisgod
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Oh dear, oh dear
DFC, still without a clue or fact to your name. No posts from you for an age, then, following an informative post from OCK, you start again. But you've no info , other than that contained in the post. That must be very frustrating! So, time to take your bull**** apart
Overtime remains a safety issue, thats why it's being regulated - of course you dont know the details - but that wont stop you!
This is Your HANGUP, due to your own personal experience. There are no limitations for Direct Entries, other than those that pertain to all Staff members.
Hey, what about the Contract Staff, you didnt mention them? Oh yeah, thats because nothing is posted here about them - and this would appear to be your only source of info. Fallen out with our old buddies have we?
Correct, same old DFC, opinions on everything, facts on nothing. Must be very frustrating for you!
The only paper in Ireland running with this was the Oirish Daily Mail. Their knowlege base is about as good as yours. Small words for idiots.Given your track record for spelling, its no wonder this is your "paper" of choice
Worried that your Junior Cert will be delayed? Thought as much
Thorisgod put it best
Brilliant
Knowlege is power - you have neither, so be a good boy and run along.
see you next tuesday
Regards ,
Irishatco
Overtime is no longer a safety issue because it is better paid and there will be possible changes somewhere in the future.
Direct entries progression to be carefully limited by union pressure on management to ensure that they do not get ahead of the most junior current
Hey, what about the Contract Staff, you didnt mention them? Oh yeah, thats because nothing is posted here about them - and this would appear to be your only source of info. Fallen out with our old buddies have we?
In other words - same old, same old.
It is the teachers turn now - the annual run up to exam time dispute season is near at hand. Never let it be said that unions will hold us to ransom just to get more money
Worried that your Junior Cert will be delayed? Thought as much
Thorisgod put it best
So keep looking for holes in our arguments but the only hole you'll see is your own because your head is so far up it.
Knowlege is power - you have neither, so be a good boy and run along.
see you next tuesday
Regards ,
Irishatco
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Overtime remains a safety issue, thats why it's being regulated
One day overtime was being refused because it was a safety issue.
Next day......and many days since, overtime was being conducted as if nothing had happened.
The only difference is that;
people have been sitting back and working out the details of the deal for themselves. A bit of peace while people decide how to vote and all that. Also, we still await a resolution of the Dublin roster issue.
and restricting the money grabbers from doing it all so that everyone who wants to gets a slice of the cake
Regards,
DFC
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God almighty give me patience 
Dfc- in all fairness are you really as thick and stupid as you appear here ?
Overtime in itself is not a safety issue-over reliance on overtime is. Excessive overtime is. Excxeesive overtime focused in the early hours is.
If i do 1 overtime duty on my middle rest day in the next two months then thats fine. Its reasonable and not excessive. If i do 6 overtime duties in the next 6 weeks then that is not ok as its excessive.
As has been said before by sevenstar there are now regulations in place limiting overtime. Thats good for everybody. When its all signed sealed and delivered it remains to be seen how much overtime wilbe required when the direct entries come on stream. It also remains to be seeen how many sign up to giving the company 12 rest days to go on-call. If the new overtime arrangements with their new limits dont cover the shortfall needed to safely run the service then you will be serving free drinks to delayed customers down the back as i am now convinced you must be the best and most informed trolley dolley in aviation.
There is no question of an arrangement to give a slice of the cake to more people as you have to ask for that slice and actively sign up for it. So if only ten people did overtime before and only ten feel like doing it now then only ten will be available. No more than before see The call-in rates have not changed by a cent either.
I dont know who you are but you obviously have a major chip on each shoulder from your time in the IAA or the Aer Corp or whoever it was . You know diddly about this situation and have done nothing but intentionally antagonise people. You probbaly think thats cool. People have done their damnest to reply to your posts with good grace and information and all have been rewarded by insults . Im sure if i met you on the street you would initially appear a reasonable fellow but thats the worrying part. jekyll and hyde
Hopefully in the very near future we will be back to "normal" - we can start to put this episode behind us and get with with our jobs-pure and simple. Then this thread will fade away and Dfc will have to dispense infinite wisdom , advice and opinions (otherwise known as pettyness,bullsh*t and headsofaruphisownar*ehecanseesunlight) to others.
Bring on the day
Yours as ever
Ock1f
Dfc- in all fairness are you really as thick and stupid as you appear here ?
Overtime in itself is not a safety issue-over reliance on overtime is. Excessive overtime is. Excxeesive overtime focused in the early hours is.
If i do 1 overtime duty on my middle rest day in the next two months then thats fine. Its reasonable and not excessive. If i do 6 overtime duties in the next 6 weeks then that is not ok as its excessive.
As has been said before by sevenstar there are now regulations in place limiting overtime. Thats good for everybody. When its all signed sealed and delivered it remains to be seen how much overtime wilbe required when the direct entries come on stream. It also remains to be seeen how many sign up to giving the company 12 rest days to go on-call. If the new overtime arrangements with their new limits dont cover the shortfall needed to safely run the service then you will be serving free drinks to delayed customers down the back as i am now convinced you must be the best and most informed trolley dolley in aviation.
There is no question of an arrangement to give a slice of the cake to more people as you have to ask for that slice and actively sign up for it. So if only ten people did overtime before and only ten feel like doing it now then only ten will be available. No more than before see
The call-in rates have not changed by a cent either.I dont know who you are but you obviously have a major chip on each shoulder from your time in the IAA or the Aer Corp or whoever it was . You know diddly about this situation and have done nothing but intentionally antagonise people. You probbaly think thats cool. People have done their damnest to reply to your posts with good grace and information and all have been rewarded by insults . Im sure if i met you on the street you would initially appear a reasonable fellow but thats the worrying part. jekyll and hyde
Hopefully in the very near future we will be back to "normal" - we can start to put this episode behind us and get with with our jobs-pure and simple. Then this thread will fade away and Dfc will have to dispense infinite wisdom , advice and opinions (otherwise known as pettyness,bullsh*t and headsofaruphisownar*ehecanseesunlight) to others.
Bring on the day
Yours as ever
Ock1f
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ock1F,
When its all signed sealed and delivered it remains to be seen how much overtime wilbe required
It also remains to be seeen how many sign up to giving the company 12 rest days to go on-call. If the new overtime arrangements with their new limits dont cover the shortfall needed to safely run the service
What does not remain to be seen is that the safety card was pulled but put firmly back into the pocket once some promisses were made which as you say remain to be seen.
Safety is very black and white. Pilots don't like dealing with ATC who in regard to safety say things like;
it remains to be seen
let's suck it and see
let's sit back and see how it works out
it will be better in the future so that makes it OK now.
To claim something is unsafe and then (regarless of promisses for future action) continue to do it is simply admitting to ignoring the risks in the hope that it (remains to be seen) will perhaps mayby possible improve.
Imagine an Aer Lingus aircraft with a safety related issue. No problem we will fix that in a few months so it is now no longer a safety issue.
Hey we just missed that other aircraft by a few feet, but it isn't a safety issue because they promisse not to do it again for a few months and then they will only do it once or twice per year.
So was overtime a safety issue or not?
Regards,
DFC
When its all signed sealed and delivered it remains to be seen how much overtime wilbe required
It also remains to be seeen how many sign up to giving the company 12 rest days to go on-call. If the new overtime arrangements with their new limits dont cover the shortfall needed to safely run the service
Safety is very black and white. Pilots don't like dealing with ATC who in regard to safety say things like;
it remains to be seen
let's suck it and see
let's sit back and see how it works out
it will be better in the future so that makes it OK now.
To claim something is unsafe and then (regarless of promisses for future action) continue to do it is simply admitting to ignoring the risks in the hope that it (remains to be seen) will perhaps mayby possible improve.
Imagine an Aer Lingus aircraft with a safety related issue. No problem we will fix that in a few months so it is now no longer a safety issue.
Hey we just missed that other aircraft by a few feet, but it isn't a safety issue because they promisse not to do it again for a few months and then they will only do it once or twice per year.
So was overtime a safety issue or not?
Regards,
DFC
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it remains to be seen
let's suck it and see
let's sit back and see how it works out
let's suck it and see
let's sit back and see how it works out
IRISH ATCOS WILL NOT TOLERATE ANYMORE BROKEN DEALS
Last edited by itsnotme; 26th Mar 2008 at 00:22. Reason: now phuck off
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The need for overtime has not suddenly changed.
The voluntary overtime ban has disapeared.
That is the only change so far.
Everything else remains to be seen.
If excess overtime was required 1 or 2 months ago then for the next while it will be required also.
Are you now saying that there was no ongoing requirement for excessive overtime, the system could and is currently coping with the staff doing a reasonable level of overtime and that is safe?
Or are you saying that the requirement for excess overtime is still there but it is being done because perhaps things will get better someting in the future?
It has to be one of the above so which one do you think it is?
Regards,
DFC
The voluntary overtime ban has disapeared.
That is the only change so far.
Everything else remains to be seen.
If excess overtime was required 1 or 2 months ago then for the next while it will be required also.
Are you now saying that there was no ongoing requirement for excessive overtime, the system could and is currently coping with the staff doing a reasonable level of overtime and that is safe?
Or are you saying that the requirement for excess overtime is still there but it is being done because perhaps things will get better someting in the future?
It has to be one of the above so which one do you think it is?
Regards,
DFC
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I had DFC on my ignore list but i needed a good laugh so i took him off and i got said Laugh by reading his posts. You should see what is written about him in other threads as well. He doesn't just keep his knuckles dragging in this thread.
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Direct Entry Controllers
NATS UK have just placed an ad for direct entries, couple that with recruitment from DFS, Eurocontrol, and the Sandpit, who will be left to fill our vacancies when the IAA get round to Advertising for the same?