ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
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From the IAA website today:
Date: February 15 2008
Headline:
Disruption to Air Traffic Services at Cork Airport
15 February 2008: due to a reported sick absence by an air traffic controller and the unwillingness of other controllers to cover this absence, there will be no air traffic services at Cork Airport between midnight tonight and 08:00 on Saturday 16 February. It is expected that one aircraft, which is scheduled to arrive after midnight tonight and five early morning departures, will be affected.
The Irish Aviation Authority regrets the inconvenience to the travelling public. Intending passengers are advised to contact their airline for further information.
Further talks are scheduled to take place on 19 February between the Authority and IMPACT, the controllers’ union, in an attempt to find a resolution to this ongoing dispute.
ENDS
Not really any better than last nights statement:
"This unofficial action is taking place notwithstanding a notification from IMPACT Trade Union on Tuesday of this week that their members were prepared to take official industrial action, including a ban on overtime effective not before 26 February 2008. The present unofficial disruption is orchestrated by controllers to ensure that the Authority is short of staff and for safety reasons the Authority has to restrict traffic and reduce or close services."
The interpretion of safe depends on your view point, staff did their best last night to ensure minimum delays in shannon airspace. The tower was kept open and flow restrictions put in place in high and low level to keep things safe but moving. The thanks we get is the above quote, and the fact that our National broadcaster is still saying that Shannon shut last night. IT DID NOT.
Not expecting the IAA to correct this error, But come on IMPACT, get the finger out and SAY SOMETHING.
OVERTIME IS SITLL VOLUNTERY,
SO WE HAVE THE OPTION TO SAY NO.
We need more staff, overtime is only leading to tired fatigued staff, and is no solution, it is only February, and already we are looking ay 6-8 high level sectors, God help us when the summer comes.
Date: February 15 2008
Headline:
Disruption to Air Traffic Services at Cork Airport
15 February 2008: due to a reported sick absence by an air traffic controller and the unwillingness of other controllers to cover this absence, there will be no air traffic services at Cork Airport between midnight tonight and 08:00 on Saturday 16 February. It is expected that one aircraft, which is scheduled to arrive after midnight tonight and five early morning departures, will be affected.
The Irish Aviation Authority regrets the inconvenience to the travelling public. Intending passengers are advised to contact their airline for further information.
Further talks are scheduled to take place on 19 February between the Authority and IMPACT, the controllers’ union, in an attempt to find a resolution to this ongoing dispute.
ENDS
Not really any better than last nights statement:
"This unofficial action is taking place notwithstanding a notification from IMPACT Trade Union on Tuesday of this week that their members were prepared to take official industrial action, including a ban on overtime effective not before 26 February 2008. The present unofficial disruption is orchestrated by controllers to ensure that the Authority is short of staff and for safety reasons the Authority has to restrict traffic and reduce or close services."
The interpretion of safe depends on your view point, staff did their best last night to ensure minimum delays in shannon airspace. The tower was kept open and flow restrictions put in place in high and low level to keep things safe but moving. The thanks we get is the above quote, and the fact that our National broadcaster is still saying that Shannon shut last night. IT DID NOT.
Not expecting the IAA to correct this error, But come on IMPACT, get the finger out and SAY SOMETHING.
OVERTIME IS SITLL VOLUNTERY,
SO WE HAVE THE OPTION TO SAY NO.
We need more staff, overtime is only leading to tired fatigued staff, and is no solution, it is only February, and already we are looking ay 6-8 high level sectors, God help us when the summer comes.
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Radar-yes of course "any outcome on or after the 19th depends on what both party's interpretation of 'engage' is."
It is not only my view but also I believe our negotiaters view that up to now the IAA management have denied that there is ANY problem with the amount of overtime required and staffing numbers . Hence the view that the IAA have NOT actively engaged with us in any sense. At least now the signs are that their eyes and ears have been opened and that they are prepared to engage with staff.
I think i know what you are hinting at ,obviously we will be engageing with management too on a professional and construtive basis.
However i will say this. We are very short of staff. Controllers dont just pop out of the woodwork. So the company will have to come up with some very attractive and interesting proposals to encourage controllers to come in on their very precious days off in order to fill the gaps. If they dont ,then there will be a summer of huge amounts of flow control and restrictions because the IAA cant safely staff the roster.
Not only that but because of the HUGE amount of resentment and anger that is there from being publicly slandered and insulted , most controllers don't feel like showing ANY gestures of goodwill. The IAA would be wise to to remember this when they are formulating their proposals for next tuesday the 19th.
As well as that there will have to be concrete proposals on recruitment going into the future. Obviously we cant be expected to work on our days off on such a regular basis in the long term. I welcome the 36 newbies who will start in a few weeks but the fact of the matter is they WILL NOT even cover projected retirements in one station. A sustained and substantial recruitment drive is needed over the next five years at least , just to keep pace with the retirements that are coming up.
This is coming to a head and I hope it will be sorted to the satisfaction of everyone before too long.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
It is not only my view but also I believe our negotiaters view that up to now the IAA management have denied that there is ANY problem with the amount of overtime required and staffing numbers . Hence the view that the IAA have NOT actively engaged with us in any sense. At least now the signs are that their eyes and ears have been opened and that they are prepared to engage with staff.
I think i know what you are hinting at ,obviously we will be engageing with management too on a professional and construtive basis.
However i will say this. We are very short of staff. Controllers dont just pop out of the woodwork. So the company will have to come up with some very attractive and interesting proposals to encourage controllers to come in on their very precious days off in order to fill the gaps. If they dont ,then there will be a summer of huge amounts of flow control and restrictions because the IAA cant safely staff the roster.
Not only that but because of the HUGE amount of resentment and anger that is there from being publicly slandered and insulted , most controllers don't feel like showing ANY gestures of goodwill. The IAA would be wise to to remember this when they are formulating their proposals for next tuesday the 19th.
As well as that there will have to be concrete proposals on recruitment going into the future. Obviously we cant be expected to work on our days off on such a regular basis in the long term. I welcome the 36 newbies who will start in a few weeks but the fact of the matter is they WILL NOT even cover projected retirements in one station. A sustained and substantial recruitment drive is needed over the next five years at least , just to keep pace with the retirements that are coming up.
This is coming to a head and I hope it will be sorted to the satisfaction of everyone before too long.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
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Morning Ireland
I disagree with Lk's remarks about having a voluntary call in scheme which has worked very satisfactorily up until now. It has worked satisfactorily from an IAA managements point of view because it has cost them alot less to make up for staff shortages, with Call ins ,than the hiring of controllers. The Iaa hired SCP6 back in 2001,, then tried to sack them all in 2003, because of some genie in the lamp prediction, that there wasn't going to be enough work for them.'' NUTS!'' The controllers of SCP6 then spent a whole year fighting the IAA in the courts trying to get re-hired. Thankfully , they won.
Understaffing is also evident in the amount of hours and air traffic that controllers are being coerced into working before getting their required fatigue breaks. Controllers are regulary working upto 3 hours on busy sectors before being provided with fatigue breaks . When controllers complain about being in postion for more than 2 hours, , they are often afforded a break, grudgingly, and made to feel undeserving and a nuisance. . When they file a complaint by way of safety suggestion form they are shunned by their watch managers who won't even sign them, which I might add ,is the instruction given to them by their operations manager. One controller was summoned to the ops managers office for filing a safety suggestion form( note not an MOR mandatory occurrence report) for having exceeded sector capacity. There, he was verbally attacked and had his competency called into question. That is absolutely disgraceful, but indicative of the working conditions and unnecessary pressure that the controllers employed by the IAA have to endure.
Mr LK also indicated that the IAA were recruiting by way of direct hires. That process was initiated 12 months ago and to this day. DIRECT ENTRY CONTROLLERS have NOT commenced training , nevermind,operations ,at any of the three airports or centres. Mr LK also says '' a number of direct entry controllers''. why has he not put a finite or even ball park figure on numbers of direct entries because they can't get them . Mr LK there is a worldwide shortage of air traffic controllers because numbskull Air Traffic Mismanagers , like yours truly have allowed filthy money making sully the waters safety. Lk also says that this current dispute was unnecessary and avoidable. NEVER A TRUER WORD SPOKEN.
At The End o' de day, all credit toooo GOB****ES.
Understaffing is also evident in the amount of hours and air traffic that controllers are being coerced into working before getting their required fatigue breaks. Controllers are regulary working upto 3 hours on busy sectors before being provided with fatigue breaks . When controllers complain about being in postion for more than 2 hours, , they are often afforded a break, grudgingly, and made to feel undeserving and a nuisance. . When they file a complaint by way of safety suggestion form they are shunned by their watch managers who won't even sign them, which I might add ,is the instruction given to them by their operations manager. One controller was summoned to the ops managers office for filing a safety suggestion form( note not an MOR mandatory occurrence report) for having exceeded sector capacity. There, he was verbally attacked and had his competency called into question. That is absolutely disgraceful, but indicative of the working conditions and unnecessary pressure that the controllers employed by the IAA have to endure.
Mr LK also indicated that the IAA were recruiting by way of direct hires. That process was initiated 12 months ago and to this day. DIRECT ENTRY CONTROLLERS have NOT commenced training , nevermind,operations ,at any of the three airports or centres. Mr LK also says '' a number of direct entry controllers''. why has he not put a finite or even ball park figure on numbers of direct entries because they can't get them . Mr LK there is a worldwide shortage of air traffic controllers because numbskull Air Traffic Mismanagers , like yours truly have allowed filthy money making sully the waters safety. Lk also says that this current dispute was unnecessary and avoidable. NEVER A TRUER WORD SPOKEN.
At The End o' de day, all credit toooo GOB****ES.
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If talks fail on Tuesday and we progress to the next stage i seriously hope that the union don't fall for that old "sure come back in and we will talk about it some more, and while your at it can you cancel the Industrial action" line.
We have them by the proverbial's and i for one do not want to be hood winked by them into letting go until we get a proper resolution that were all happy with.
We have them by the proverbial's and i for one do not want to be hood winked by them into letting go until we get a proper resolution that were all happy with.
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I agree with you baw676...The union have to go into these meetings stronger than ever before....No bull****...straight talking...meet the demands or we WILL GO to the gate!! We've had quite enough of this foolin about....Or should I say being fooled about. Its also time that the public know that this is NOT any type of industrial action...Official or otherwise....As for the Independant Newspaper...THANKS A F
ING BUNCH!!!!!!
ING BUNCH!!!!!!
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LK on the Radio
Go back and listen again. Note the implied fact that we are on standby on our rest days, like many other ATS providers.
Aaahhhh!
No we are not.
While there is the oppurtunity to make it known that you are available on a rest day you can still say no.
And if they can't get anybody who expressed a preference they go through the whole roster starting with people on a 1st day off, then 2nd day off etc.
This is the bloody situation we are trying to resolve.
Go back and listen again. Note the implied fact that we are on standby on our rest days, like many other ATS providers.
Aaahhhh!
No we are not.
While there is the oppurtunity to make it known that you are available on a rest day you can still say no.
And if they can't get anybody who expressed a preference they go through the whole roster starting with people on a 1st day off, then 2nd day off etc.
This is the bloody situation we are trying to resolve.
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Once again we are being turned into the ALDI of ATC providers ( I suppose ALDI have some uses-unlike our esteemed director of HR who has nothing but staff shortages and a extremely angry staff to show for his work over the last 5 years), Mr K please explain now to the board how you tried to sack an entire SEP course and prevented an increase in the operational pool of controllers in 2001, just like the safety regulator-NO balls,NO planning and a culture of bullying embedded in the company.
When will mismanagement learn that they need to staff above minimums, they need to see reason and understand that having extra staff allows them to provide career breaks, job sharing, training and properly resource projects-the controllers should not be manning these 'extras' from the operations pool. It is not all that long ago that staff were forced to resign as career breaks would not be permitted, this was promptly followed by a VER scheme. The lack of planning in IAA hq is astonishing. If I have heard correctly on the grapevine some genius wants to operate a FIS suite for daylight hours out of present staffing levels in Dublin this summer, the only way this can be done as I see it without increasing staff is to have us work longer hours and get shorter breaks. When will they realise that an increase in traffic and working more will just lead us to an unthinkable result-and you can bet for the next two summers we will be working to minimums all over again.
Staff MUST bear all this in mind when we are presented with a ballot at some stage in the future, included on this ballot will probably be a 5 and 3 roster with longer hours, some vague promise from mismanagement about casual leave and staffing levels (in relation to DUB but you can bet SNN and CRK will be shafted as well) - we the staff must ensure that the staffing factor/levels are increased to allow more staff in the centres at all times, so what if it allows a controller on a night duty to take a longer break or ensure no one is overworked if someone reports sick at short notice. We need more staff at all times and not staff to minimums.
As a final note, full respect is due to all the staff working under stressful conditions due to staff shortages at present, flow control can only protect them so much from shorter breaks and reduced staffing.
Well done all.
When will mismanagement learn that they need to staff above minimums, they need to see reason and understand that having extra staff allows them to provide career breaks, job sharing, training and properly resource projects-the controllers should not be manning these 'extras' from the operations pool. It is not all that long ago that staff were forced to resign as career breaks would not be permitted, this was promptly followed by a VER scheme. The lack of planning in IAA hq is astonishing. If I have heard correctly on the grapevine some genius wants to operate a FIS suite for daylight hours out of present staffing levels in Dublin this summer, the only way this can be done as I see it without increasing staff is to have us work longer hours and get shorter breaks. When will they realise that an increase in traffic and working more will just lead us to an unthinkable result-and you can bet for the next two summers we will be working to minimums all over again.
Staff MUST bear all this in mind when we are presented with a ballot at some stage in the future, included on this ballot will probably be a 5 and 3 roster with longer hours, some vague promise from mismanagement about casual leave and staffing levels (in relation to DUB but you can bet SNN and CRK will be shafted as well) - we the staff must ensure that the staffing factor/levels are increased to allow more staff in the centres at all times, so what if it allows a controller on a night duty to take a longer break or ensure no one is overworked if someone reports sick at short notice. We need more staff at all times and not staff to minimums.
As a final note, full respect is due to all the staff working under stressful conditions due to staff shortages at present, flow control can only protect them so much from shorter breaks and reduced staffing.
Well done all.
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Iaa's recruitment campaign
I don't think that the iaa's director of human resources ' forays in the media are going to do anything for your recruitment campaign. Especially the females. why don't you just hire this guy
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=P1L3o3gyxPU
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=P1L3o3gyxPU
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I've just seen that there will be delays into Dublin today....reason..staffing according to our system.....How can the IAA still continue to deny there are no staffing problems.....at least chemical ali was entertaining in his complete denial of the situation compared to LK.
Last edited by alwaysmovin; 22nd Feb 2008 at 21:14.
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Expect a NOTAM to be issued soon (1200ish) closing Dublin from 2345 to 0600 tonight due to staff shortages.
...and before that ejit
of communications manager says again that this is "orchestrated by controllers to ensure that the Authority is short of staff"
1 atco is out with broken ribs,the other is out with the flu and the DA is long term S/L. (Staffing for nights is 5 ATCOs 1 DA)
lot of empty seats tonight
...and before that ejit
of communications manager says again that this is "orchestrated by controllers to ensure that the Authority is short of staff"1 atco is out with broken ribs,the other is out with the flu and the DA is long term S/L. (Staffing for nights is 5 ATCOs 1 DA)
lot of empty seats tonight
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Macker-classic post 
You must have done a doctorate in behavioural psychololgy in your spare time because you hit the nail on the head by outlining how the IAA think about their controlling staff.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
You must have done a doctorate in behavioural psychololgy in your spare time because you hit the nail on the head by outlining how the IAA think about their controlling staff.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
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Just remembered...... Stripless training starting in SNN this week. More people off the roser.....Down to minimum (or below) staffing....Whose fault if TWR has to close again before Tue???
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Spanador-yes it will be very interesting if the tower has to close again before tuesday and see who they blame.
It is also very conceivable that low level could shut thereby closing 75% of Irish airspace including cork , shannon and all the regionals.
It is also conceivable that the number of high level sectors could be restricted in the westbound flow causing big knock on delays across europe. Also the number of NAT tracks accepted by shannon in the eastbound flow could be restricted too .
In light of the above scenario anyone willing to take bets that they will cancel training at a moments notice and order peope back to OPS?. Of course they can't change the rostered hours at such short notice -just where you report to.
I am actually surprised that they are still going ahead with stripless. This is after the two major system failures in one day last week. But more importantly there was two this week . One of the occurences this week involved both radar screens in a suite going completely blank-nothing but light blue.
And they still want to take away the strips????????????
Yours as ever
OCK1F
It is also very conceivable that low level could shut thereby closing 75% of Irish airspace including cork , shannon and all the regionals.
It is also conceivable that the number of high level sectors could be restricted in the westbound flow causing big knock on delays across europe. Also the number of NAT tracks accepted by shannon in the eastbound flow could be restricted too .
In light of the above scenario anyone willing to take bets that they will cancel training at a moments notice and order peope back to OPS?. Of course they can't change the rostered hours at such short notice -just where you report to.
I am actually surprised that they are still going ahead with stripless. This is after the two major system failures in one day last week. But more importantly there was two this week . One of the occurences this week involved both radar screens in a suite going completely blank-nothing but light blue.
And they still want to take away the strips????????????
Yours as ever
OCK1F
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Cushy Number
Someone here mentioned Milo in an earlier post.
If memory serves me correctly he took legal action against the IAA before he retired. It was settled out of court.
I can't be 100% sure but i think 4 people (including 1 before the courts at the moment) have taken legal action agianst the IAA on grounds of discrimination, not to mention the legal action resulting from the scp 6 debacle!!!
Can anyone out there think of a more sued semi state in the country?
Management must be very confused by all this because if we've got such a cushy number "overpaid, underworked, lazy, paid to sit there looking out the window" why are we bringing the wrath of the press and the flying public down on our heads?
As the IAA is a "World leader in the field to work for and do business with" (remember that) why are so many people From the Head of ATS to a DA complaining through the Courts that theyve been treated badly?
The Shannon lads may be better briefed on this one, Is there a Consortium of American Air Lines suing the IAA over EXCESSIVE PROFITS? Heard something about it on the news but can't be sure.
The IAA really must feel invincble if they are taking **** from so many directions and do nothing to sort things out
If memory serves me correctly he took legal action against the IAA before he retired. It was settled out of court.
I can't be 100% sure but i think 4 people (including 1 before the courts at the moment) have taken legal action agianst the IAA on grounds of discrimination, not to mention the legal action resulting from the scp 6 debacle!!!
Can anyone out there think of a more sued semi state in the country?
Management must be very confused by all this because if we've got such a cushy number "overpaid, underworked, lazy, paid to sit there looking out the window" why are we bringing the wrath of the press and the flying public down on our heads?
As the IAA is a "World leader in the field to work for and do business with" (remember that) why are so many people From the Head of ATS to a DA complaining through the Courts that theyve been treated badly?
The Shannon lads may be better briefed on this one, Is there a Consortium of American Air Lines suing the IAA over EXCESSIVE PROFITS? Heard something about it on the news but can't be sure.
The IAA really must feel invincble if they are taking **** from so many directions and do nothing to sort things out
Last edited by norby; 16th Feb 2008 at 14:41.
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Now now OCK1F don't be mocking the most modern system in Europe..
Remember within budget and on schedule!!
Your management achieved what no other ANSP in Europe could..
I see a total lack of appreciation for these wallas and yawl should reel grateful to dem ole boys (an gals!).
I know it is not orchestrated... the sequence of short closures.... but it is effective while at the same time, if the media bothered to look behind the scenes, it certainly reflects how bad things really are for you guys still in the pit.
I wish all of you the very best and the courage to do what we didn't during the many rincas that we were led on by the various naffs down through the years - where are they now oh yeah two of them are directors and a few more are sittin pretty with cushy numbers.
As for hootin Lil shur she can't help it after all she's only a mouthpiece for... ah you know what I mean....
Remember within budget and on schedule!!
Your management achieved what no other ANSP in Europe could..
I see a total lack of appreciation for these wallas and yawl should reel grateful to dem ole boys (an gals!).
I know it is not orchestrated... the sequence of short closures.... but it is effective while at the same time, if the media bothered to look behind the scenes, it certainly reflects how bad things really are for you guys still in the pit.
I wish all of you the very best and the courage to do what we didn't during the many rincas that we were led on by the various naffs down through the years - where are they now oh yeah two of them are directors and a few more are sittin pretty with cushy numbers.
As for hootin Lil shur she can't help it after all she's only a mouthpiece for... ah you know what I mean....