ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
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Is there a staff shortage in Shannon Tower?
Two controllers Air and Ground with more to provide breaks required on duty required to handle 12 flights over 3 hours.
If the IAA got it's act together and sorted out such over-staffing requirements then how many controllers does that free up if the whole system was looked at. It will not solve the problems described but one can't help feeling that the IAA could start down the road by looking at more realistic staffing levels in the quiet places.
Would ATCOs object to such adjustments?
Flow control is not a bad word - they simply have the options limited "no regulation" or "zero rate".
Regards,
DFC
Two controllers Air and Ground with more to provide breaks required on duty required to handle 12 flights over 3 hours.
If the IAA got it's act together and sorted out such over-staffing requirements then how many controllers does that free up if the whole system was looked at. It will not solve the problems described but one can't help feeling that the IAA could start down the road by looking at more realistic staffing levels in the quiet places.
Would ATCOs object to such adjustments?
Flow control is not a bad word - they simply have the options limited "no regulation" or "zero rate".
Regards,
DFC
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Re deployment of tower staff
As we have discussed earlier Shannon tower is not to be maligned because of traffic levels. If the IAA got off of their useless A***s and gave us real working procedures that were safe and effective we might be able to live with one person sectors/ towers but in effect the only safety net for controllers are 2 man positions. If we agreed to reducing staffing below the agreed minimums management would shaft us if anything went wrong. Management are so blinkered that efficiency is only measured in terms of cost. The shambles that are the MATS manuals bear testimony to this. In the real world we are run by accountants, when we need positive and creative management to deal (positively) with the growing change in Irish ATC we have no one. Every passenger in Irish airspace deserves the best ATC service we can provide irrespective of the traffic levels or earning capacity of any given station.
ironically Tower staff shortages in Shannon are closing the airport whilst radar staff shortages in DUblin have been closing that airport.
Stay focussed we are the good guys
ironically Tower staff shortages in Shannon are closing the airport whilst radar staff shortages in DUblin have been closing that airport.
Stay focussed we are the good guys
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we might be able to live with one person sectors/ towers but in effect the only safety net for controllers are 2 man positions
How many staff would be available to cover breaks and sickness etc if Cork and Shannon operated combined Air and Ground every day. Would overtime still be required?
Regards,
DFC
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Other airports in Europe with traffic levels greather than Shannon and Cork combined seem to meet the European and ICAO safety standards but do not need Air/Ground open at all times.
How many staff would be available to cover breaks and sickness etc if Cork and Shannon operated combined Air and Ground every day. Would overtime still be required?
How many staff would be available to cover breaks and sickness etc if Cork and Shannon operated combined Air and Ground every day. Would overtime still be required?
They removed the assistant from the Tower, and made the requirement 2 ATCOs H24. Their requirement!
They also made ATCOs lose their tower ratings by refusing to train them in new procedures ( this meant less recurrent training costs ), thus squeezing the number of tower ratings to the minimum.
Dont think that in Shannon its just a lack of staff in the tower, its everywhere. It is possible to have a full staff complement on in ATC on any given day, but that does not mean that there is a full complement of ratings for all positions. The tower does not operate on a stand alone roster. Controllers that work in the ACC are rotated through the tower to man the positions.
This does not arise in cork, as it is not 2 ATCOs H24 in their tower
Of course a 1 ATCO tower would require less people to run, but that extra person would be required elsewhere.
The actual number of ATCOs in Shannon is about 140, however, the actual number on the roster at any time is about 99. all of the rest are on projects,instructing,courses, sick leave, maternity etc, not to mention the lucky few that are able to take annual leave. Go figure!
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I think that it is clear to those in the business that the IAA have made poor decisions regarding both the staffing levels required to provide a service and having the staff in place to meet their own (over the top in some cases) requirements.
Part of the process to solve the problem has to be a rationalisation of over the top staffing levels and H24 Air / Ground at Shannon is probably the best example.
If the IAA (wrongly) require 100 controllers at any time to staff 50 positions plus more staff to provide breaks then if it is found that 25 of those positions could be operated (are operated in more busy units) on a single person basis a step should be made towards more realistic staffing levels and avoiding zero rate flow control on some positions.
However, going from a rate of 2 movements per ATCO per hour to zero is not much of a change
To be taken seriously in this situation, ATCOs and their representatives should be not only pressing the IAA for more staff but should be pressing for more realistic staffing levels which will put the current staff to better use.
One does not have to be an accountant to see that more staff = more costs. But inefficent working practices (over staffing requirements) = more cost also.
One does not want the public perception to be of an overstaffed ex civil service workforce who are not worked very hard calling for more staff to avoid having to work half as hard as other ATCOs elsewhere in Europe.
The public needs to be properly briefed regarding the true situation and what ATCOs propose to change it - not just the give us more people or we will close you down argument.
Regards,
DFC
Part of the process to solve the problem has to be a rationalisation of over the top staffing levels and H24 Air / Ground at Shannon is probably the best example.
If the IAA (wrongly) require 100 controllers at any time to staff 50 positions plus more staff to provide breaks then if it is found that 25 of those positions could be operated (are operated in more busy units) on a single person basis a step should be made towards more realistic staffing levels and avoiding zero rate flow control on some positions.
However, going from a rate of 2 movements per ATCO per hour to zero is not much of a change
To be taken seriously in this situation, ATCOs and their representatives should be not only pressing the IAA for more staff but should be pressing for more realistic staffing levels which will put the current staff to better use.
One does not have to be an accountant to see that more staff = more costs. But inefficent working practices (over staffing requirements) = more cost also.
One does not want the public perception to be of an overstaffed ex civil service workforce who are not worked very hard calling for more staff to avoid having to work half as hard as other ATCOs elsewhere in Europe.
The public needs to be properly briefed regarding the true situation and what ATCOs propose to change it - not just the give us more people or we will close you down argument.
Regards,
DFC
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Look at the facts.........
DFC,
you seem to be unaware of the facts. Shannon operates single person operations frequently and I would estimate at a much higher rate than an average of 2 movements/hour - not referring to the TWR. Over the last decades the ATCOs have kept the operation running both cost effectively and safely even in the face of gross mismanagement at times. I remember only too well during the 80s when the amount of untaken leave was in the thousands of days over a 24 month period and the end result was a 'deal' negotiated by the union to buy back these days at a single rate - NOT at an overtime rate thus saving the DoT thousands at the time and not to mention hiding the staff shortage that prevailed then.
The facts are quite simple:
1. There is a shortage of operational controllers in the IAA.
2. This is as a direct result of miscalculation of the resource requirements by Local management in both Shanon and Dublin (not sure about Cork!).
3. ATCOs working overtime should be an exception, not a given, to keep the ship afloat.
4. The IAA press releases are, to say the least, a reflection of the same arrogance that has led them to this mess.
5. It's true that they have written to retirees offering 22 weeks work, one day leave/two weeks worked at a rate of 305 euro/day - forgot to tell us that their ATCOs cost them approximately 700/day. So, once again trying to do it on the cheap (bells ringing... pay peanuts you get monkeys!)
6. There is no immediate short term solution and the ATCOs will inevitably support the IAA in retrieving this situation but not before a lot of pain and bad press and the SoS from management.
7. Somewhere at the far side one or two of the union executive will get a susprise promotion or plumb job!
8 The IAA management have been and I suspect always will be minimalists but put on a good show (e.g. new system implemented on time and within budget but no mention of the absolute mess they made of it and other facts which cannot be mentioned but have a very close look at the MoR records since the new gear went in- need I say more?)
9. The public care about getting off on time and getting back when they should and beyond that not really interested so since when did good press make interesting press? I have yet to see an article or press release from the IAA stating how wonderful a job their workforce do but yet you read reports from arsicons who cannot even state the correct titles of the ATCO so obviously they have little interest in providing 'good' press.
10. If I was still there I would definitely take a leaf out of M O Leary's book and go for lots of shock stuff even to the point of mentioning the names of the incompetents that have screwed this up (not mentioning EB, PR, MW and LK and their bottom warmers).
Ahhhh I miss the ould place sometimes!
you seem to be unaware of the facts. Shannon operates single person operations frequently and I would estimate at a much higher rate than an average of 2 movements/hour - not referring to the TWR. Over the last decades the ATCOs have kept the operation running both cost effectively and safely even in the face of gross mismanagement at times. I remember only too well during the 80s when the amount of untaken leave was in the thousands of days over a 24 month period and the end result was a 'deal' negotiated by the union to buy back these days at a single rate - NOT at an overtime rate thus saving the DoT thousands at the time and not to mention hiding the staff shortage that prevailed then.
The facts are quite simple:
1. There is a shortage of operational controllers in the IAA.
2. This is as a direct result of miscalculation of the resource requirements by Local management in both Shanon and Dublin (not sure about Cork!).
3. ATCOs working overtime should be an exception, not a given, to keep the ship afloat.
4. The IAA press releases are, to say the least, a reflection of the same arrogance that has led them to this mess.
5. It's true that they have written to retirees offering 22 weeks work, one day leave/two weeks worked at a rate of 305 euro/day - forgot to tell us that their ATCOs cost them approximately 700/day. So, once again trying to do it on the cheap (bells ringing... pay peanuts you get monkeys!)
6. There is no immediate short term solution and the ATCOs will inevitably support the IAA in retrieving this situation but not before a lot of pain and bad press and the SoS from management.
7. Somewhere at the far side one or two of the union executive will get a susprise promotion or plumb job!
8 The IAA management have been and I suspect always will be minimalists but put on a good show (e.g. new system implemented on time and within budget but no mention of the absolute mess they made of it and other facts which cannot be mentioned but have a very close look at the MoR records since the new gear went in- need I say more?)
9. The public care about getting off on time and getting back when they should and beyond that not really interested so since when did good press make interesting press? I have yet to see an article or press release from the IAA stating how wonderful a job their workforce do but yet you read reports from arsicons who cannot even state the correct titles of the ATCO so obviously they have little interest in providing 'good' press.
10. If I was still there I would definitely take a leaf out of M O Leary's book and go for lots of shock stuff even to the point of mentioning the names of the incompetents that have screwed this up (not mentioning EB, PR, MW and LK and their bottom warmers).
Ahhhh I miss the ould place sometimes!
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One does not want the public perception to be of an overstaffed ex civil service workforce who are not worked very hard calling for more staff to avoid having to work half as hard as other ATCOs elsewhere in Europe.
Are you for real? Honestly? No, really?
This quote only demonstrates your lack of awareness of the problem for the Irish Air Traffic Service, provided by the IAA. Thats fair enough. You dont have enough information to know about this situation.
For the last time.......
THIS SITUATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STAFFING LEVELS AT SHANNON AIRPORT. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH STAFFING LEVELS WITHIN THE AIR TRAFFIC SERVICES OF THE IAA.
Do your homework, and then maybe you'll see how inane and unhelpful your comments are becoming, despite, i believe your best intentions
Here's 2 questions for you.
Do you know if there was a full staff compliment on in Shannon, or was it that there was not an extra tower rated person to be found, at the time of the closures?
Do you think that if there had been another tower rated controller on in the ACC, that they would have been sent to the tower so that the Airport would not have had to close, and that the staff shortfall would have been made elsewhere, without the publicity?
Any ideas?
Last edited by irishatco; 12th Feb 2008 at 12:47.
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Management in IAA
a couple of points
1. the atc staff are in a huge position of strength once we stick together...99% not bad so far
2. management have lost the respect of the staff ever since renaging on the Kilkenny agreement not to mention recent wildcat allegations.
3.when a senior member of management predicted an economic downturn in aug 2003 he was very poorly informed.
4.the treatment of anyone who has an incident is a disgrace
5.scp 6 took 5 years to graduate
6.no controllers employed since 2002 despite huge increase in traffic and taking NOTA on board
7.management have still to sort out tax returns for atc workers sent abroad dating back to 2002....yes...6 years ago
It is time for the accountants to stop counting the money and start doing what they are very well paid to do...ie provide a safe service for all aircaft in Irish airspace and enough controllers to do it!!
1. the atc staff are in a huge position of strength once we stick together...99% not bad so far
2. management have lost the respect of the staff ever since renaging on the Kilkenny agreement not to mention recent wildcat allegations.
3.when a senior member of management predicted an economic downturn in aug 2003 he was very poorly informed.
4.the treatment of anyone who has an incident is a disgrace
5.scp 6 took 5 years to graduate
6.no controllers employed since 2002 despite huge increase in traffic and taking NOTA on board
7.management have still to sort out tax returns for atc workers sent abroad dating back to 2002....yes...6 years ago
It is time for the accountants to stop counting the money and start doing what they are very well paid to do...ie provide a safe service for all aircaft in Irish airspace and enough controllers to do it!!
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With reference to Mr Corry's article, if he thinks comparing Irish ATCOs with their French counterparts would ever be taken as a negative, he seriously misjudges his readership.
The French approach has always received yearning, longing glances from our more cowering, apathetic nation.
And how has this 'disease' affected the French nation? Decent standard of living, commendable secular education system and a health service we can only dream of. This is one 'disease' I would like to see in our hospitals.
Anyway, I digress. To be even mentioned on the same written page as the French is the highest of complements.
Vive la Revolution
Staff rationalisation is an ongoing process. However, IAA management have always had the good sense to build contingency into their staffing arrangements, and ATCOs have come to expect no less.
If an ATCO goes belly-up, the control element of the situation is forfeited and there must be some way of making this situation safe again. The IAA have taken the most obvious route, by not staffing less than two of any one rating. I would be genuinely interested in the contingency procedures of locations that staff to a factor of one.
In some quarters I have heard the term 'calculated risk', being bandied around. But who has done these calculations? and who takes the risk?
The French approach has always received yearning, longing glances from our more cowering, apathetic nation.
And how has this 'disease' affected the French nation? Decent standard of living, commendable secular education system and a health service we can only dream of. This is one 'disease' I would like to see in our hospitals.
Anyway, I digress. To be even mentioned on the same written page as the French is the highest of complements.
Vive la Revolution
Staff rationalisation is an ongoing process. However, IAA management have always had the good sense to build contingency into their staffing arrangements, and ATCOs have come to expect no less.
If an ATCO goes belly-up, the control element of the situation is forfeited and there must be some way of making this situation safe again. The IAA have taken the most obvious route, by not staffing less than two of any one rating. I would be genuinely interested in the contingency procedures of locations that staff to a factor of one.
In some quarters I have heard the term 'calculated risk', being bandied around. But who has done these calculations? and who takes the risk?
Last edited by goodworker; 17th Feb 2008 at 00:08.
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Can't wait for the next press statement post Strike notice letter being handed to them later today. I imagine they will throw all sorts at us.
Especially as they will want to muddy the waters even futher for joe public into thinking that we are over paid and under worked and indeed "Over staffed".
Simple equation
36 new controllers(50% more than planned) + 20 odd direct entry + ask back VER's + 1800 overtime duties in 2 stations in 2007 = NO STAFFING ISSUE.
Well handled IAA mismanagement.
Especially as they will want to muddy the waters even futher for joe public into thinking that we are over paid and under worked and indeed "Over staffed".
Simple equation
36 new controllers(50% more than planned) + 20 odd direct entry + ask back VER's + 1800 overtime duties in 2 stations in 2007 = NO STAFFING ISSUE.
Well handled IAA mismanagement
.
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irish atco,
To be honnest, I am mistified really.
The tower was closed from 2100 to 0000. 3 Hours.
Is it true to say that at 2100 the two ATCOs in the tower and those that could provide rest breaks went home and that no other ATCOs came in to replace them until midnight? Or was it the situation that the ACC was so busy with split sectors that the staff who could have gone to the tower were too busy keeping the ACC sectors split.......at that time of night?
Where did the ATCO's who kept the Air and Ground positions open throughout the night and those that provided them with rest breaks appear from at midnight?
What time are the shift changes in Shannon?
Really strugguling to understand the IAA system where ATCOs disappear to ??? and suddenly appear from ??? at Shannon 3 hours later rested and able to continue a service until the next shift arrives????
Regards,
DFC
Do you think that if there had been another tower rated controller on in the ACC, that they would have been sent to the tower so that the Airport would not have had to close, and that the staff shortfall would have been made elsewhere, without the publicity?
The tower was closed from 2100 to 0000. 3 Hours.
Is it true to say that at 2100 the two ATCOs in the tower and those that could provide rest breaks went home and that no other ATCOs came in to replace them until midnight? Or was it the situation that the ACC was so busy with split sectors that the staff who could have gone to the tower were too busy keeping the ACC sectors split.......at that time of night?
Where did the ATCO's who kept the Air and Ground positions open throughout the night and those that provided them with rest breaks appear from at midnight?
What time are the shift changes in Shannon?
Really strugguling to understand the IAA system where ATCOs disappear to ??? and suddenly appear from ??? at Shannon 3 hours later rested and able to continue a service until the next shift arrives????
Regards,
DFC
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Hi DFC
I imagine that it's all rather simple really.
At 9pm one of the tower rated controllers finished their duties and went home. As there were no tower rated staff in the ACC the tower closed.
This is IAA Policy on staffing
The traffic levels in Shannon are irrelevant because IAA policy states that there must be 2 tower staff present at all times. Even if Shannon was quiet at the time you must remember that you only need 2 planes on freq for a mid air or one van on the field for a runway incursion and if that happened the IAA would F
K you over so fast for operating outside procedure.
I don't know about Euroland or anywhere else but in Ireland the SMC also has to do ramp control, clearancedelivery and at night the atca functions also, lumping that onto AMC would make things unfeasible very quickly ANYWHERE.
Stop wailing on about Shannon, exactly the same thing happened in Dublin and Heathrow last month.
Its ATC staff complying with IAA policy that brought about the stoppages and if the policies need to be updated then thats what we pay HR and SRD for.
I'm a Dublin Controller but I've worked in Shannon and know how messy it gets. The problem as stated before is ST mangement maybe if ours were as proactive and enlightened or even as competent as those in the other airports you mentioned then we wouldn't be in this mess now.
I imagine that it's all rather simple really.
At 9pm one of the tower rated controllers finished their duties and went home. As there were no tower rated staff in the ACC the tower closed.
This is IAA Policy on staffing
The traffic levels in Shannon are irrelevant because IAA policy states that there must be 2 tower staff present at all times. Even if Shannon was quiet at the time you must remember that you only need 2 planes on freq for a mid air or one van on the field for a runway incursion and if that happened the IAA would F
K you over so fast for operating outside procedure.I don't know about Euroland or anywhere else but in Ireland the SMC also has to do ramp control, clearancedelivery and at night the atca functions also, lumping that onto AMC would make things unfeasible very quickly ANYWHERE.
Stop wailing on about Shannon, exactly the same thing happened in Dublin and Heathrow last month.
Its ATC staff complying with IAA policy that brought about the stoppages and if the policies need to be updated then thats what we pay HR and SRD for.
I'm a Dublin Controller but I've worked in Shannon and know how messy it gets. The problem as stated before is S
T mangement maybe if ours were as proactive and enlightened or even as competent as those in the other airports you mentioned then we wouldn't be in this mess now.
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Perhaps there were no tower controllers available on the first night shift that came in at 9.30 and they had to wait for tower controllers from the second night shift to come in at 12. I think shannon lost some tower rated people when shannon app went to Dublin last year (another well thouhgt IAA plan) so maybe there was just no other tower ratings on. Just specualtion on my part. Not everyone has the same ratings in shannon . Low area radar and upper radar are two seperate ratings and some people have only one rating so it makes rostering a bit different to units elsewhere. Again this is the managemnet's decision.
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Look Who Just Woke Up
Air Traffic Controllers Date: Monday 11 February, 2008 News Summary:
Members of IMPACT’s Air Traffic Controllers branch concluded a ballot for industrial action on Friday 8th of February. Air Traffic Control Officers (ATCOs) voted by a majority of 99% in favour of industrial action, up to and including strike action.
News Content:Notice of this action has not yet been served on the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), as internal discussions within the union are still taking place on the most appropriate next steps to bring the current dispute to a conclusion. 14 days notice of such action is required by law.
Talks are scheduled to resume at the Labour Relations Commission on the 19th of February.
Following last night’s temporary closure of Shannon Airport by the IAA, IMPACT trade union, on behalf of Irish Air Traffic Control Officers , wish to make the following points of clarification to the background of the current dispute:
WELCOME TO THE FIGHT IMPACT
We await todays press release keenly
Members of IMPACT’s Air Traffic Controllers branch concluded a ballot for industrial action on Friday 8th of February. Air Traffic Control Officers (ATCOs) voted by a majority of 99% in favour of industrial action, up to and including strike action. News Content:
Notice of this action has not yet been served on the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), as internal discussions within the union are still taking place on the most appropriate next steps to bring the current dispute to a conclusion. 14 days notice of such action is required by law.Talks are scheduled to resume at the Labour Relations Commission on the 19th of February.
Following last night’s temporary closure of Shannon Airport by the IAA, IMPACT trade union, on behalf of Irish Air Traffic Control Officers , wish to make the following points of clarification to the background of the current dispute:
- There is no contractual requirement on Air Traffic Control Officers (ATCOs) to work overtime. This is because it is generally recognised as best practice that the work of ATCOs should not involve overtime.
- Due to the shortage of staff dating back to 2001, ATCOs in Dublin, Shannon and Cork airports are regularly required to provide an Air Traffic Control service without the agreed number of ATCOs on duty.
- It is only when the number of ATCOs falls below a safe number that ATCOs have requested the introduction of restrictions to air traffic movements. This request was made to protect the ATCOs on duty and the traveling public.
- In order to minimise these occurrences, ATCOs have provided additional cover by working periods of overtime on rest days. The ATCO branch of IMPACT maintains that such ad hoc arrangements are unsustainable, and that the Air Traffic Control System has become over dependent on these arrangements. Such arrangements can result in an ATCO working up to 50.4 hours per week.
- Until such times as the staffing levels are increased, an agreed and equitable system of standby and overtime needs to be put in place, but only as part of a series of interim measures.
- The current talks between the ATCO branch of IMPACT and the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) are aimed at achieving agreement on an acceptable interim system of standby and overtime.
- The staffing compliment still urgently needs to be increased. 75 trainee ATCOs have been recruited by the IAA; 36 of these recruits will complete their training and join the duty roster in late 2009.
- In recent weeks, in order to facilitate the conciliation talks, under the aegis of the Labour Relations Commission (LRC), a number of ATCOs agreed to provide additional duty cover, on a voluntary basis. This was a necessary measure, allowing members of the ATCO branch executive to attend the talks, and to ensure minimum disruption as talks continued.
WELCOME TO THE FIGHT IMPACT
We await todays press release keenly
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and here it is
Last Updated: 12/02/2008 17:48
Air traffic controllers serve strike notice
Air traffic controllers today issued two weeks formal notice of strike action to the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) in a move that could ground flights coming in and out of the country.
Over the weekend the controllers, who are members of the Impact trade union, voted by a majority of 99 per cent in favour of the industrial action.
In a statement issued today Impact said the notice included a ban on overtime to take effect from February 26th and work-to-rule with further details being specified at a later date.
Impact also issued preliminary notice of temporary work stoppages which would take effect from February 26th if the dispute has not been resolved following discussions between the two sides at the Labour Relations Commission (LRC).
The controllers are essentially in dispute with the IAA about short-staffing and the amount of overtime they are being asked to do as a result.
Last Saturday a dozen flights were cancelled at Shannon Airport after the controllers refused to work overtime. There was also disruption at Shannon earlier last Wednesday night and last month 32 flights at Dublin airport were also grounded by the dispute.
Since then there have been a number of hearings before the LRC in an attempt to resolve the dispute and talks resume again at the commission next Tuesday, February 19th.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking81.htm
IAA STATEMENT
News & Press Releases
Date: February 12 2008
Headline: Disruptive Action by Air Traffic Controllers to continue
The Irish Aviation Authority received official notification from IMPACT Trade Union this afternoon that, following a ballot, Air Traffic Controller members are to take official industrial action as follows:
The industrial action, particularly work stoppages, by Air Traffic Controllers, members of IMPACT, will affect all en-route and terminal air traffic services in and out of the country. This has the potential to cause major disruptions to airlines and to the travelling public. The Authority will continue to keep its airline customers and the travelling public informed of the effects of these actions.
This industrial action proposed by Air Traffic Controllers is in furtherance of a significantly enhanced extra attendance payment and changes to rostered attendances which are two elements of a package of other issues where agreement has mostly been reached. In such circumstances the action now proposed is by any standards excessive.
END
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=448
Air traffic controllers serve strike notice
Air traffic controllers today issued two weeks formal notice of strike action to the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) in a move that could ground flights coming in and out of the country.
Over the weekend the controllers, who are members of the Impact trade union, voted by a majority of 99 per cent in favour of the industrial action.
In a statement issued today Impact said the notice included a ban on overtime to take effect from February 26th and work-to-rule with further details being specified at a later date.
Impact also issued preliminary notice of temporary work stoppages which would take effect from February 26th if the dispute has not been resolved following discussions between the two sides at the Labour Relations Commission (LRC).
The controllers are essentially in dispute with the IAA about short-staffing and the amount of overtime they are being asked to do as a result.
Last Saturday a dozen flights were cancelled at Shannon Airport after the controllers refused to work overtime. There was also disruption at Shannon earlier last Wednesday night and last month 32 flights at Dublin airport were also grounded by the dispute.
Since then there have been a number of hearings before the LRC in an attempt to resolve the dispute and talks resume again at the commission next Tuesday, February 19th.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking81.htm
IAA STATEMENT
News & Press Releases
Date: February 12 2008
Headline: Disruptive Action by Air Traffic Controllers to continue
The Irish Aviation Authority received official notification from IMPACT Trade Union this afternoon that, following a ballot, Air Traffic Controller members are to take official industrial action as follows:
- An overtime ban to take effect from the 26th February 2008
- Work stoppages to take effect from a date no earlier than 26th February 2008, with at least seven days notice of the specific time and date of a stoppage. This will be issued after the Labour Relations Commission (LRC) hearing on 19th February 2008 if the dispute is not resolved.
- Work to rule - details to be specified in the near future.
The industrial action, particularly work stoppages, by Air Traffic Controllers, members of IMPACT, will affect all en-route and terminal air traffic services in and out of the country. This has the potential to cause major disruptions to airlines and to the travelling public. The Authority will continue to keep its airline customers and the travelling public informed of the effects of these actions.
This industrial action proposed by Air Traffic Controllers is in furtherance of a significantly enhanced extra attendance payment and changes to rostered attendances which are two elements of a package of other issues where agreement has mostly been reached. In such circumstances the action now proposed is by any standards excessive.
END
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=448
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It is very good to see IMPACT stand up to the the plate , and there press release while not as strong as I would have liked, it was businesslike and set out the legitimate points of view of staff. While i dont see this dispute as a "fight" as such they are most welcome for rowing in behind their members in this dispute.
In response to todays serving of industrial action notice i have just read the IAA response :
Date: February 12 2008
Headline: Disruptive Action by Air Traffic Controllers to continue
The Irish Aviation Authority received official notification from IMPACT Trade Union this afternoon that, following a ballot, Air Traffic Controller members are to take official industrial action as follows:
The industrial action, particularly work stoppages, by Air Traffic Controllers, members of IMPACT, will affect all en-route and terminal air traffic services in and out of the country. This has the potential to cause major disruptions to airlines and to the travelling public. The Authority will continue to keep its airline customers and the travelling public informed of the effects of these actions.
This industrial action proposed by Air Traffic Controllers is in furtherance of a significantly enhanced extra attendance payment and changes to rostered attendances which are two elements of a package of other issues where agreement has mostly been reached. In such circumstances the action now proposed is by any standards excessive.
END
I have to say i found it quite funny. Especially the last line about "our excessive standards of action" Wow i never knew that working all the hours in my contract was excessive action. I never knew that having a day off was excessive action. I never knew that having a break after 2 hours and splitting sectors when they reached their max capacity was excessive action. Im laughing as i read the IAAs statement. But having said that ,there was no overt poison and vitriol in these ones and quite considerably different in tone.
It is quite obvious that the IAA have had a chance to "re-asses" their figures and ask their line managers what the real story is and are now really worried. It is obvious to everyone that the LRC (if they get involved) cannot recommend that the staff do compulsory overtime, so that avenue of escape is closed to them.
To my colleagues i would say now is the time to stay united and press home our advantage. We are now in a situation that obviously needs to be improved on and we should seize this oppurtunity to improve or rosters,staffing and other professional issues. We sholud do this by staying smart and playing it cool. We take it step by step and give each step a decent time to show some improvement. If at the end of each step there is no improvement then we move it up a gear.However we dont want to go off like like a canon pushing for unrealsitic things -just the big things for now like staffing.
From this thread and from speaking to my colleagues it is crystal clear how angry ,hurt and betrayed controllers feel by their own company-and remember what did we do to deserve this? All we did was say no thanks i want a day off-which eventual exposed the mismanagement of the company. I know of controllers who have been abused publicly in social settings because of the perceived industrial action/walking off the job slander the IAA put out in the public domain. In a fair world the IAA would issue an apologyto their staff.
Now an apology is not going to happen-ever.
However they really do need to build bridges with their staff. If they can restore the relationship as good as they can spout ****e and slander about their staff then we(the company) will be fine again. The best we can hope for is that they reach an agreement thats acceptable to both sides that doesnt involve either side lossing face PUBLICLY-remember perception is everything.
I had a converstaion today with a jeweller who i know. He asked about the 'strike'-I was only too glad to inform him about the real story.When i told him of an incidence where i had just finished an extra duty of 11hrs and 15 mins which finished at 815am and that at 10 am i got a call asking me if i would come in at noon for another duty? He was shocked that we would be asked to work such hours and it still be considered safe.
Obviously i declined the second extra duty but perhaps i should present myself for punishment as i have obviously engaged in excessive action,wildcat action by not agreeing to work all the hours in the day and really i should be punished for that.
I have bitten my tongue about about DFC posts. You are persistant but so uninformed. If i may say that you seem to have a pre-conceived idea about the whole shannon tower staffing/closure issue and you dont appear to understand or pay attention to the post that are trying to inform you.
So DFC ,just for you one last time: Shannon tower has 2 controllers. NO assistant at all at anytime . After a certain hour in the evening ( i think 7pm-ish) the 2 controllers are self-relieving. That means that IF and only IF its quiet then one heads downstairs for a cup of tea and a break. They are contactable by the other controller at all times . When that break is over the favour is returned to the other-again only IF its quiet enough. There is no-one else to provide braeks full stop. the APP staff are at the other side of the country and are not tower rated. Shannon center is 15 to 20 mins away but on the occasion in question there were NO ( that zero) rated tower staff in the center. The center and tower have the minimum staff at this hour of the evening-nothing spare. The next team of controllers do not arrive until midnight. So 1 controller doing three jobs with no back-up, no contingency, no help, and no break for 3 hours while the job of 3 positions with two frequencys is not on. I dont care how they do it elsewhere -thats the rules here so thats that- ok
Hope that helps
Now thats cleared up- i say support each other, dont let the opputunity slip from aour grasp and play it smart. We are nearly there in affecting change for the better.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
In response to todays serving of industrial action notice i have just read the IAA response :
Date: February 12 2008
Headline: Disruptive Action by Air Traffic Controllers to continue
The Irish Aviation Authority received official notification from IMPACT Trade Union this afternoon that, following a ballot, Air Traffic Controller members are to take official industrial action as follows:
- An overtime ban to take effect from the 26th February 2008
- Work stoppages to take effect from a date no earlier than 26th February 2008, with at least seven days notice of the specific time and date of a stoppage. This will be issued after the Labour Relations Commission (LRC) hearing on 19th February 2008 if the dispute is not resolved.
- Work to rule - details to be specified in the near future.
The industrial action, particularly work stoppages, by Air Traffic Controllers, members of IMPACT, will affect all en-route and terminal air traffic services in and out of the country. This has the potential to cause major disruptions to airlines and to the travelling public. The Authority will continue to keep its airline customers and the travelling public informed of the effects of these actions.
This industrial action proposed by Air Traffic Controllers is in furtherance of a significantly enhanced extra attendance payment and changes to rostered attendances which are two elements of a package of other issues where agreement has mostly been reached. In such circumstances the action now proposed is by any standards excessive.
END
I have to say i found it quite funny. Especially the last line about "our excessive standards of action" Wow i never knew that working all the hours in my contract was excessive action. I never knew that having a day off was excessive action. I never knew that having a break after 2 hours and splitting sectors when they reached their max capacity was excessive action. Im laughing as i read the IAAs statement. But having said that ,there was no overt poison and vitriol in these ones and quite considerably different in tone.
It is quite obvious that the IAA have had a chance to "re-asses" their figures and ask their line managers what the real story is and are now really worried. It is obvious to everyone that the LRC (if they get involved) cannot recommend that the staff do compulsory overtime, so that avenue of escape is closed to them.
To my colleagues i would say now is the time to stay united and press home our advantage. We are now in a situation that obviously needs to be improved on and we should seize this oppurtunity to improve or rosters,staffing and other professional issues. We sholud do this by staying smart and playing it cool. We take it step by step and give each step a decent time to show some improvement. If at the end of each step there is no improvement then we move it up a gear.However we dont want to go off like like a canon pushing for unrealsitic things -just the big things for now like staffing.
From this thread and from speaking to my colleagues it is crystal clear how angry ,hurt and betrayed controllers feel by their own company-and remember what did we do to deserve this? All we did was say no thanks i want a day off-which eventual exposed the mismanagement of the company. I know of controllers who have been abused publicly in social settings because of the perceived industrial action/walking off the job slander the IAA put out in the public domain. In a fair world the IAA would issue an apologyto their staff.
Now an apology is not going to happen-ever.
However they really do need to build bridges with their staff. If they can restore the relationship as good as they can spout ****e and slander about their staff then we(the company) will be fine again. The best we can hope for is that they reach an agreement thats acceptable to both sides that doesnt involve either side lossing face PUBLICLY-remember perception is everything.
I had a converstaion today with a jeweller who i know. He asked about the 'strike'-I was only too glad to inform him about the real story.When i told him of an incidence where i had just finished an extra duty of 11hrs and 15 mins which finished at 815am and that at 10 am i got a call asking me if i would come in at noon for another duty? He was shocked that we would be asked to work such hours and it still be considered safe.
Obviously i declined the second extra duty but perhaps i should present myself for punishment as i have obviously engaged in excessive action,wildcat action by not agreeing to work all the hours in the day and really i should be punished for that.
I have bitten my tongue about about DFC posts. You are persistant but so uninformed. If i may say that you seem to have a pre-conceived idea about the whole shannon tower staffing/closure issue and you dont appear to understand or pay attention to the post that are trying to inform you.
So DFC ,just for you one last time: Shannon tower has 2 controllers. NO assistant at all at anytime . After a certain hour in the evening ( i think 7pm-ish) the 2 controllers are self-relieving. That means that IF and only IF its quiet then one heads downstairs for a cup of tea and a break. They are contactable by the other controller at all times . When that break is over the favour is returned to the other-again only IF its quiet enough. There is no-one else to provide braeks full stop. the APP staff are at the other side of the country and are not tower rated. Shannon center is 15 to 20 mins away but on the occasion in question there were NO ( that zero) rated tower staff in the center. The center and tower have the minimum staff at this hour of the evening-nothing spare. The next team of controllers do not arrive until midnight. So 1 controller doing three jobs with no back-up, no contingency, no help, and no break for 3 hours while the job of 3 positions with two frequencys is not on. I dont care how they do it elsewhere -thats the rules here so thats that- ok
Hope that helps
Now thats cleared up- i say support each other, dont let the opputunity slip from aour grasp and play it smart. We are nearly there in affecting change for the better.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
Last edited by ock1f; 12th Feb 2008 at 17:43.
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Industrial Action
Lads IMHO we should keep the overtime Out of any Official Industrial action.
It's the thing that hurts them most and when the Labour court orders us to go for a chat it will be on the condition that ALL official action stops and that means we have to comply with call ins in order to keep the talks going and avoid management crying wildcat if we "choose" not to do overtime
Work to rule YES
Strike if all else fails but no official ban on overtime as it'll undo all of our good work so far.
It's the thing that hurts them most and when the Labour court orders us to go for a chat it will be on the condition that ALL official action stops and that means we have to comply with call ins in order to keep the talks going and avoid management crying wildcat if we "choose" not to do overtime
Work to rule YES
Strike if all else fails but no official ban on overtime as it'll undo all of our good work so far.
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Norby i agree but there is still nothing stopping you as an individual at any time from saying NO to overtime. It is VOLUNTARY. By getting a call asking for you to do it doesn't mean you have to. I know there is those who will at first opportunity do overtime but thats up to them if they want to go against the will of the masses thats there choice.
A big hand to all the guys and girls across all three stations for standing up for each other and finally doing something that will hopefully improve our lot.
A big hand to all the guys and girls across all three stations for standing up for each other and finally doing something that will hopefully improve our lot.