Ryanair - 8

[mickyman]

Befree

Yeah the writings on the wall and the sh#ts gonna hit the fan !!

MM

[TSR2]

Cue racedo ......

[racedo]

Cue racedo ......

You a bit slow...............see #2045

[TSR2]

I meant in response to mickyman and befree .... go on, you know you want to ;)

[Aero Mad]

Maybe they should just migrate to Eastern Europe where people will put up with their rubbish in return for low fares?

[FKB-Freak]

What bases are in plan for next summer?

Greetings FKB-Freak from Germany :)

[racedo]

I meant in response to mickyman and befree .... go on, you know you want to

:p..........................

[befree]

In ryanair business model lowest headline fares push up load factors and you do not have to worry about being nice to pax as there are many more lined up to replace any you upset.

In the real world many will try and fly with the best airline they can afford and avoid FR if possible.

This year FR load factors are
71.0
76.0
79.0
85.0
82.0
84.0
89.0
89.0
85.0

Easyjet load factors are
78.9
87.1
86.9
86.5
84.1
88.3
91.7
92.2
89.6

[clareview]

As has been said many times in this forum, load factors are but one of a number of measures - its easy to fill a plane to get a high load factor - free seats could get you a 100% load factor. Its the total of what the passengers are paying that really matters and that makes a flight profitable or not.

Similarly total number of passengers carried is but one factor - there is no merit in carrying more passengers if they are not paying enough to cover the costs

Who is making the most money - Ryanair or Easyjet?

[BigFrank]

One major element which is almost always overlooked in this issue is the question of subsidy by regional governments in the EU. (I know you are not allowed to call it subsidy but I cannot be bothered to write it in "quotation marks" to keep the lawyers happy.)

Currently, with Ryanair pulling out of Reus at the end of this month for the winter and also cutting back very substantially at Girona they should be receiving many fewer mega-Euros from the Generalitat de Catalunya; though as always the local press coverage (as of yesterday) was as clear as mud.

Presumably if the Catalans have finally got the message as to the true nature of the airline with whom they have got into bed, that penny will be dropping in the [2nd division but previously cash flush though now totally skint] chanceries all across Europe too.

[ExpatChris]

Hi

Can anyone tell me why Marrakech-Seville flight on October 7th did a go around on landing in Seville.

Captain came on tannoy after climbing again and said he would tell us all what happened when we were on the ground but never did.

Just interested to know

Thanks

[silverhawk]

It was his last flight for Ryanair and just wanted to cost them some money whilst having a bit of free practice prior to his sim session with his next employer.

[virginblue]

This year FR load factors are
71.0
...

Easyjet load factors are
78.9
...


Are you talking about tickets sold or passengers transported? That is a rather big difference in Ryanair's and - to a lesser extent - in Easyjet's case.

[jabird]

davidjohnson6,

No, as with Ryanair booking itself, the card fees are avoidable if you play it to the letter. But if you hand over money to this bank, and they do go under, you have lost all you put on the card, and that is what I understand happened with the last provider.

This card was initially going to be issues by a subsidiary of MasterCard, which would have been safe, now it is with a relatively unknown private bank, who might have been around for a couple of hundred years, but so were Barings.

[EI-DAC]

Press conference in Milan, right now.
Any announcement?

[jabird]

pee, excellent translation!

[Seljuk22]

There will be 3 new airports served in Italy by FR in the near future.

30 mln passengers in BGY so far. That's why he was there.
Ryanair: l'irresistibile ascesa di O'Leary - Photostory Primopiano - ANSA.it (http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/photostory/primopiano/2011/10/13/visualizza_new.html_672454491.html?idPhoto=10)

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ryanair one toilet per aircraft plan will make room for more seats | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048198/Ryanair-toilet-aircraft-plan-make-room-seats.html#ixzz1ahf2FcXf)
Ryanair will carry 75million passengers this year. Its longest UK route is from Rhodes to Liverpool, taking four hours and 25 minutes. Initially, though, the higher-capacity aircraft would be deployed on shorter routes

[Jamie2k9]

Want to fly to MXP but they must come up with a good deal. Will not affect BGY ops. Want to base another aircraft at BGY and new routes next summer.

FR hope to open new routes from Hahn next summer. A tax reduction think to do with ATC.

They are staying in Berlin next summer.

[pee]

pee, excellent translation!Not so excellent apparently, it's gone :}. However, Jamie2k9 has put it in other words: FR hope to open new routes from Hahn next summer.
Elsewhere:
Some folks from Poland say Ryanair is negotiating with new Warsaw Modlin Airport to start flying there, but no decision was made so far.

[Ian Brooks]

Noticed that the first of next batch of deliveries is going into store in Mojave
Is this just for winter or aircraft not required full stop.

Ian

[IB4138]

According to Jethro's, the 3 aircraft are cancelled and are possibly now destined for Southwest.

The last five airframes were sold to a leasing company on delivery and leased back.

Does MOL have a cash flow problem ?

[EI-DAC]

MXP operations could stop FR plans to open a base @TRN.

[bia botal]

Does MOL have a cash flow problem ?

No he has a crewing problem.

[Jamie2k9]

Noticed that the first of next batch of deliveries is going into store in Mojave
Is this just for winter or aircraft not required full stop.

FR will have them in December..

[FR-]

I'll second the crewing problems. Ryanair crew in EMA are being forced to take unpaid leave while having agency staff in, to do the same job.

fr-

[jaypla]

Does anybody know which would be the biggest unserved city by ryanair in Europe except Eastern Europe?

[eu01]

Half-European only, but... it would be Istanbul.

[racedo]

According to Jethro's, the 3 aircraft are cancelled and are possibly now destined for Southwest.

The last five airframes were sold to a leasing company on delivery and leased back.

Does MOL have a cash flow problem ?

Lets see you buy aircraft from Boeing at a very cheap Purchase price, funding provided by US Export bank at a very low interest rate, you then sell it to on a Sale and Leaseback deal at close to Market Value...............not Purchase price and you figure they have a cash flow problem !!!!!

Companies who have cash flow problems will struggle to get good deals........somehow I think the Leasing companies were bidding like crazy to get this one.

[Sober Lark]

Racedo,

A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him.

BTW where is Leo Hairy Camel thesedays?

[Transportraition]

' Noticed that the first of next batch of deliveries is going into store in Mojave
Is this just for winter or aircraft not required full stop. '


Just for the record, Ian, reports from Seattle say that the next three aircraft, EI-ESR/S/T were flown from BFI to Marana for storage. (not Mojave).

[eu01]

Warsaw Modlin Airport
Better focus on Wroclaw first. Interesting news tba.

[j636]

Ryanair up in court again. FR denies bullying campaign aginist Ticket Generator Ltd, a UK company operateing in Dublin Airport. They sell train tickets to London. (Stansted Express I think). They secured interim injunctions aginist Ryanair.

MOL said yesterday that the "claims were denied but his side needed time to file replying affidavits"

Due back on Monday.

I also read that FR are to ground 2 aircraft and crew in TLL for a day in November. Very unlike them to do it.

[eu01]

@TLL

...and a genuine night flight therefrom!
Sat 12 Nov 11
Flight FR 1711
03:30 Depart TLL
04:40 Arrive DUB
- one time event only (due to Euro 2012 match)

[racedo]

I also read that FR are to ground 2 aircraft and crew in TLL for a day in November. Very unlike them to do it.

Based on selling tickets for €100 each way plus everything that will be sold on flight over and back then you are looking at a return flight generating €40k plus per aircraft. They also stated that it may be more than 2 aircraft involved.

As for very unlike them fraid you wrong as they have previously provided extra flights for Cheltenham / Munster and Leinster rugby games without a problem where there was no way of picking up return booking once there. Having crew stay over is sensible decision.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Based on selling tickets for €100 each way

More like over €170 each way.

They have also put fares up on flights to Riga

[jdcg]

Does anyone know if this route has now gone seasonal? I'm wanting to fly some friends from the Dordogne into London in Jan / Feb next year and there appear to be no flights available. Wouldn't be surprised but all the Wiki sites seem to indicate it's year round.
Thanks

[Jamie2k9]

No flights between 7 January - 24 March. Operating all year except those 11 weeks.

[pee]

The news cited by realdeal.hu (http://realdeal.hu/20111017/ryanair-may-return-to-budapest-next-year/):
Irish low-cost airline Ryanair is contemplating to return to Hungary next year, business daily Napi Gazdasag said on Monday quoting unnamed sources.

The airline was previously reported as making plans to fly out of Sarmellek in western Hungary but, according to the latest information, it will use Budapest airport instead upon its return, the paper said.

[pee]

Some folks from Poland say Ryanair is negotiating with new Warsaw Modlin Airport to start flying there, but no decision was made so far. Better focus on Wroclaw first. Interesting news tba.
Well, they say tomorrow will be a press conference in Warsaw, on Wednesday in Wroclaw. A base or two, just some new routes or simply "much ado"? :rolleyes:

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Balkans.com Business News : Ryanair won?t fly to Montenegro this winter (http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=123497)

German Plane Tax Cut Encourages Ryanair (http://www.tax-news.com/news/German_Plane_Tax_Cut_Encourages_Ryanair____51987.html)

[Flawiusz]

New base in Warsaw/Modlin.
They will start next summmer, with about 10-12 destinations.

[EI-DAC]

Just in Time for european football championships.

[eu01]

They surprised me really ;), it was a swift decision. Nevertheless, expect the second base in Wroclaw (tba as soon as tomorrow).

PS. An official agreement in Modlin is yet to be signed

[eu01]

And indeed, Cawley is cited saying: "Everything indicates that the deal could be signed soon". Looks more like a kind of blackmail; FR aims at getting the agreement on conditions imposed by themselves.

I'd say, better curb any enthusiasm here. As a consolation, Wroclaw base seems rather certain and that one will be the first Ryanair base in Poland.

[j636]

Reading that the following cities are some expected to be served: Berlin, Frankfurt, Dublin, Oslo, Malaga. Are we talking a 2 aircraft base.

[TimmyW]

Have Ryanair released their summer schedule for next summer as yet? I notice there is nothing showing for DSA yet.

[jabird]

Does anybody know which would be the biggest unserved city by ryanair in Europe except Eastern Europe?

IST? Depends what you mean by east - geography or politics?

I take it you don't mean BUC, IEV or MOW.

City population is misleading - e.g. ZRH proper quite small, but the hinterland is most of CH. One of the last places MOL will go. LIS - discussed recently? AMS - again, like ZRH a massive hinterland - all of 'Holland' - ie N Holland & S Holland, within easy reach.

I'm not counting anywhere were MOL has stretched the boudaries of alternatives - eg MMX for CPH, FMM for MUC, BTS for VIE etc.

Cities with 2+ airports - ie MOL can play them off? BFS is a notable ommission, I think well documented here, esp re: BHD & restrictions.

[andy mach 1]

Does anybody know which would be the biggest unserved city by ryanair in Europe except Eastern Europe? Largest city not served looks to be Athens 3.74m. Also Budapest 1.73m; Prague 1.29m; Cologne 1.0m; Naples 0.96m

[jabird]

Andy,

Really depends on your definition of city, and East. The only strict dictatorship left is Belarus (not that I'm pretending Russia is a model democracy). IST (as in Ataturk) is on the European side, metro Istanbul is 13m, counting both sides, the European being larger. We would assume MOL would go for SAW, which is on the Asian side, but recent form (and Jet2) have shown no reason to take that, or FR going into Turkey at all, as a given.

AMS serves a massive hinterland - the whole Randstad is some 7m, and that includes Rotterdam, which is 26m from AMS via FYRA, about the same time the bus takes from RTM to Centraal.

The Rhine-Ruhr 'Essendorf' connurbation could be measured as up to 10m, although FR do server NRN, aka Dusseldorf West.

[andy mach 1]

Jabird

As you have pointed out we have cities and we have connurbations.

Figures quoted relate to just the cities itself as connurbations/hinterlands can be quite vastly populated as you have pointed out.

There are as quoted a number of locations that have a large population but do not have Ryanair flying from the airports within as they most likely do not fill the criteria ie cheap to use.

Again how far is east and where are we going east from?

Andy

[antoslaw]

New base, first in Poland has just been announced in Wroclaw. They will add 6 directions: Malmoe, Venice-Treviso, Crete-Chania, Paris-Beauvais, Bournemouth and Malta.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

New base, first in Poland has just been announced in Wroclaw. They will add 6 directions: Malmoe, Venice-Treviso, Crete-Chania, Paris-Beauvais, Bournemouth and Malta.


2 aircraft from March 2012. Also expected to increase some current routes and add a routes to Cyprus.

Hangar being build for FR

[RAT 5]

Some years ago it as rumoured that RYR had bought a large ex-military airfield near Prague. Further rumours about a maintenace base there or even a destination. Does anyone have any factual information about this?

[BigFrank]

(i) A strange concept on a thread about Ryanair. IMO. Obviously

(ii) Are the Poles sufficiently naive to allow themselves to be sucked into this mug´s-game and/ or bottomless-pit, as the Catalans have been ?

I would presume not. IMO. Obviously.

[danieln]

I suppose you mean the airfield called Vodochody. As far as I know, this airfield is owned by a private company.

Some years ago, there were indeed talks about possible Ryanair flights to and from Vodochody. But I think the problem is that there is no real passenger terminal infrastructure, at least not for 737-sized aircraft.

No idea if these plans are still in the pipeline.

[pee]

@danieln. Do you know Czech language? Can't help you, but if you do: Leti?t? Vodochody | Leti?t? Vodochody (http://www.vodochodyairport.cz/cs/)

@BigFrank. You sound somewhat like the betrayed man. Indeed, Girona looks like a looser in that game. But what about the Catalonian government? It wasn't smart to reduce the charges at El Prat

@Warsaw. Would be better for the inbound tourism than Wroclaw. Btw., here's some flavor of what Ryanair proposes in Modlin
Europe's largest economy airliner Ryanair is looking to establish its first headquarters in the country at an airport currently under construction in Modlin, near Warsaw, reported Rzeczpospolita.

The airport, which is located 35 km north west of Warsaw, is scheduled to begin flying passengers as early as June 2012.

Ryanair officials say the company plans to base 10 of its planes at the Modlin Airport and have 40 regional connections from Warsaw, while servicing 3.5 million passengers in the process.

The company estimates that 3,500 new jobs will be created thanks to the new airport.

Construction on the Modlin Airport began on October 8 2010 and the facility is set for completion in the second quarter of 2012.


From Warsaw Business Journal (http://www.wbj.pl/article-56559-ryanair-to-fly-from-warsaws-modlin-airport.html)

And kind of Ryanair's hurray-optimistic vision on that picture:
http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/2/10495/z10495602X.jpg
Of course it's just a pure propaganda, nothing else, but is really the North-Eastern Europe kind of deserted area? Wouldn't it be closer from Warsaw to Finland than to Nantes? :E

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ryanair Announces New Base (No 46) in Wroclaw (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryanair-announces-new-base-no-46-in-wroclaw)

Only 1 aircraft.

[RAT 5]

The curious thing is I spoke to a Wizz air pilot recently, and he mentioned that both they & RYR have a common major shareholder. Wizz air had made a large a/c order. We speculated that that was why RYR seemed not to tread on Wizzair's toes, nor invade its patch, except for in & out flights. However, this new strategy seems to contradict that. Hm?

[Charlie Roy]

We speculated that that was why RYR seemed not to tread on Wizzair's toes, nor invade its patch, except for in & out flights. However, this new strategy seems to contradict that. Hm?

Or the strategy is a duopoly in Warsaw, one at Modlin, the other at Chopin.

[eu01]

Or the strategy is a duopoly in Warsaw, one at Modlin, the other at Chopin.
Not sure about that. It would be very difficult for Modlin Airport to give FR preferences (low airport fees) without offering the same conditions to others. Why would Wizz decide to compete with FR in Warsaw on similar routes paying (presumably) substantially more at Chopin? Modlin has in fact reasonably good location.

[TSR2]

Talks between Ryanair and Aena on the use of Airbridges at Alicante Airport appear to have reached deadlock, being described as 'an irresistible force meeting an immovable object'.

In an interview this week, Luis Fernandez Mellado, Ryanair's Sales and Marketing Co-ordinator for Spain and Portugal explained that the use of airbridges would represent 'an unnecessary cost to the airline which would need to be passed on to passengers'. Later in the interview he stated that 'the direct cost to the airline is estimated to be about 2 million Euros per year which would add 50 cents to the cost of a flight'. However, if Ryanair where unable to meet their 25 minute turn around time through use of airbridges, additional indirect costs would be difficult to quantify although he admitted that airbridges were used at Madrid and Barcelona.

Ryanair claim to move 4 million passengers per year through the airport which represents almost 40% of the annual total.

[Jamie2k9]

Oslo Rygge base will grow in 2012. FR going to increase traffic from 1.5 million this year to 2 million in 2012. Routes expected to be announced by early 2012.

Also FR expected to start Dublin-Ljubljana in March 2012. That info as of 3 Oct. No further routes but could change by next summer.

[Stevek]

Any other routes starting from Dublin next Spring? I heard a few people mentioning a return to Karlsruhe Baden Baden.

[Jamie2k9]

A few which have being going around are:
Ljubljana
Karlsruhe Baden Baden
Leipzig
Paphas or Laranca
Budapest (if FR go back)
Moldin (confirmed as soon as they start there)

[FKB-Freak]

I hope Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden will be a base.

[EI-DAC]

No chance for DUB-BolOgna to be resumed?

[peppo_8787]

There is hope to see open the route Dublin-Palermo?

[Jamie2k9]

No chance for DUB-BolOgna to be resumed?


All this years seasonal routes are due back next summer. Bologna was suspended in Sep because FR reduced there DUB based fleet. It did operate last winter but the loads were not great.

[ryanair1]

Bournemouth to Malta will be resumed from next March '12

[NorthernCounties]

O'Leary unveils Ryanair expansion blueprint (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/oleary-unveils-ryanair-expansion-blueprint-16067930.html?r=RSS)

The boss of budget airline Ryanair outlined ambitious expansion plans today that would see the airline almost double the number of passengers and stretch its reach across Europe.

Chief executive Michael O'Leary told the Financial Times that he wanted to increase passenger numbers to between 120 million and 130 million over the next decade - which would make Ryanair one of the biggest airlines in the world.

Mr O'Leary said the airline is in talks with plane makers Boeing, Comac in China, and Russia's Irkut over the purchase of 200 to 300 new narrow-bodied aircraft.

Dublin-based Ryanair carried 72.1 million passengers in 2010/11 but the plans could double the size of its fleet of about 270 aircraft.

Mr O'Leary added that Ryanair could increase its share of the European market as the tough economic environment boosts demand for low-cost travel.

The outspoken Irishman said the airline could deploy 50 new aircraft to serve Scandinavia and a further 100 to service the Baltic states, Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic.

The airline paid a 500 million euro (£431 million) special dividend in 2010/11 and Mr O'Leary said another payment is under consideration for 2012/13.

A third special dividend could be paid in 2014/15 if no aircraft order had been finalised by then.

All of Ryanair's planes are manufactured by US manufacturer Boeing, and analysts said costs could increase if it bought aircraft from another maker.

Mr O'Leary is well-known for courting controversy with his cost-cutting suggestions, which have included charging to use the toilets on planes, removing a toilet, standing passenger space, and scrapping the role of the co-pilot.

Hmmm, probably just his usual waffle. I know were he could almost double passenger figures though... LDY!

[F14]

With current resignation rates, who will fly these new Russian or Chinese aircrafts? :eek:

[danieln]

Not a word about transatlantic flights...!

[pee]

With current resignation rates, who will fly these new Russian or Chinese aircrafts?
Aren't there more Central-Eastern European bases coming? Moreover, Eastern Finland is co close to St. Petersburg :oh:
Not a word about transatlantic flights...!
Neither about the toilet charges. Probably the same sort of propaganda.

[embryonic]

Ryanair aims to double passengers and become one of world’s biggest airlines - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-aims-to-double-passengers-and-become-one-of-worldrsquos-biggest-airlines-2914801.html)

[fireflybob]

They'll need a few more pilots and engineers to do that........!

[SKYWRITER1]

If he buys Russian or Chinese a/c, I'll plait sawdust....

[doniedarko]

More self publicising from the CEO who plans to double his ego ....I wonder why he is grounding 90 A/C this winter and giving staff forced unpaid annual leave for 3 months ....:mad:

[Groundloop]

I wonder why he is grounding 90 A/C this winter

Pretty obvious. Pax numbers a lot less in the winter compared with summer - especially in the leisure segment of the loco market.

[Severn]

For anyone that is interested, as with every winter RYR cuts the number of based aircraft at most of its bases, or utilises only some of the based fleet per day.
Below shows the comparison of the number of required based aircraft according to the schedule at each of the UK bases in November 2011 in comparison the Late Summer 11 based aircraft.

Order top to bottom - Smallest to largest number of aircraft based - Nov 11

BOH
Oct 11: 1
Nov 11: 0
Change: -1

MAN** (New Base) -
Oct 11: 0
Nov 11: 2
Change: +2

LBA -
Oct 11: 2
Nov 11: 2
Change: 0

PIK -
Oct 11: 7
Nov 11: 2
Change: -5

BHX -
Oct 11: 4
Nov 11: 3
Change: -1

BRS -
Oct 11: 5
Nov 11: 3
Change: -2

EMA -
Oct 11: 7
Nov 11: 3
Change: -4

LTN -
Oct 11: 4
Nov 11: 4
Change: 0

EDI -
Oct 11: 8
Nov 11: 4
Change: -4

LPL -
Oct 11: 8
Nov 11: 5
Change: -3

STN -
??

Biggest change is PIK losing 5 aircraft, EDI & EMA losing 4 each.

[FR-]

Anyone know if any UK base is having any forced unpaid leave, EMA crews are being made to have between 8-12 weeks.

fr-

[Sober Lark]

Hey, that's great news! You're in an industry that continues to soar. With Mr. Optimistic spotting countries with increasing personal income with the inevitable propensity to travel you're on to a winner. More competition and more choice. In no time at all we'll only be left with happy moaners

[Chidken Sangwich]

This just goes to show that the bubble has now burst and the lo-co's are now exactly the same as the charter boys, well what's left of the charter boy's that is...

Cream it in the Summer (and I doubt its 'cream' these days), pour it down the toilet in the Winter... Stelios is not as stupid as he seems, listen to what he's been saying the last couple of years...

Its reached saturation!

[Stevek]

This just goes to show that the bubble has now burst and the lo-co's are now exactly the same as the charter boys, well what's left of the charter boy's that is...

:ok:

Have a look here...

Travel news : Passenger Figures (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/passenger-figures)

[apaul]

EasyJet is in a lot stronger position now because it seized opportunities at Gatwick and on the continent. If it had just consolidated at bases like Luton and Stansted it would be facing more competition and earning less. If more money were to be returned to shareholders Stelios would probably waste it on a failed venture. Ryanair to double is the usual O'Leary hot-air. He can't fill the planes he's got already.

[scotsunflyer]

EDI is only 7 based aircraft. There was an extra aircraft there the last 2 weekends for the mid term holidays

[atmosphere]

Good on him, Nice to hear some positive business news for a change!!

[racedo]

EasyJet is in a lot stronger position now because it seized opportunities at Gatwick and on the continent. If it had just consolidated at bases like Luton and Stansted it would be facing more competition and earning less. If more money were to be returned to shareholders Stelios would probably waste it on a failed venture. Ryanair to double is the usual O'Leary hot-air. He can't fill the planes he's got already.

Easyjet full year results expected to be between £200-230 Million (their guidance) on 54.5 Million passengers (Actual pax numbers) or roughly £4 per passenger

Ryanair full year results expected to be around £400 million (their guidance) on passenger number on roughly 79 million passengers or roughly £5 per passenger.

Easyjet fares are roughly £11 (26%) per passenger more than Ryanair yet they still make less.

[grassy]

Given the choice I would opt for Easyjet everyday.

[Cyrano]

Easyjet full year results expected to be between £200-230 Million (their guidance) on 54.5 Million passengers (Actual pax numbers) or roughly £4 per passenger

Ryanair full year results expected to be around £400 million (their guidance) on passenger number on roughly 79 million passengers or roughly £5 per passenger.

Easyjet fares are roughly £11 (26%) per passenger more than Ryanair yet they still make less.

And I wonder how much of either of those profit figures is made up of subventions from airports/chambers of commerce/regional governments?

I have the sense that

a significant amount of this subvention/subsidy/"marketing support" is in contravention of EC directives (not degressive, not limited to 3 years)
Ryanair relies more on this revenue stream than easyJet


This makes me feel that the Ryanair £5 per passenger is perhaps less robust than the easyJet £4 per passenger.

But I am open to correction on both of the above assumptions.

[racedo]

This makes me feel that the Ryanair £5 per passenger is perhaps less robust than the easyJet £4 per passenger.

Think you should also consider this that even though Easyjet has a fare £11 more than Ryanair they are still spending £12 more....

or

that Easyjet makes 7.5% of the fare is profit v 11.6% for Ryanair.

[Cyrano]

Think you should also consider this that even though Easyjet has a fare £11 more than Ryanair they are still spending £12 more....

or

that Easyjet makes 7.5% of the fare is profit v 11.6% for Ryanair.

I see what you're saying, OK, but the revenue divided by the passengers isn't actually the fare, is it? If I understand it correctly, there are three main revenue streams:
A: what the passenger pays on the website when making the booking
+
B: what the passenger buys on board etc.
+
C: whatever support funding is made available from airports/regions etc

and it's the sum of A+B+C, divided by the number of passengers, which is £11 more for easyJet. C seems to be both completely non-transparent and also vulnerable to reduction in the future.

[Facelookbovvered]

A mate of mine said as much last week, but he's only a contractor, so if not required not paid.

[apaul]

racedo, try getting your figures right. The profit forecast for easyJet was raised to £250 million. Ryanair's forecast is 400 million euros. More importantly, for the future, easyJet has a reasonable reputation and flies routes where there is good demand.

[racedo]

racedo, try getting your figures right. The profit forecast for easyJet was raised to £250 million. Ryanair's forecast is 400 million euros. More importantly, for the future, easyJet has a reasonable reputation and flies routes where there is good demand.

Profit forecast is in the "range of" and its for its full year where as FR is 9 months off this but half years are out soon so this can be revisited then.

As for the last crack about reasonable reputation is that the one where they claim 80% on time is a success !!!!!!

[CCR]

Regarding today's news that Ryanair are talking to Boeing, Comac and Russian manufacturers for a 200-300 aircraft order.
Whilst Airbus don't seem interested, wouldn't such a large order be a dream order for the launch of the 149 seat Bombardier C series?
Admittedly a smaller jet than the 737-800 but it's advantage would be that it could be used on thinner European routes. Seems to me Bombardier and Ryanair could be the perfect match, Bombardier agrees to a substancial discount in return for such a large order, launching the C series into the big time vis a vis Boeing & Airbus.

[peba]

MOL has got what he wants, now start doing what you said you would do if these rates were dropped.MOL will be found out once and for all.These charges wont make a difference,the people of Ireland just dont have the money.

[ozzy_bruce]

Hi. I am studying for a business degree here in Australia. I am curious. Why does Ryanair polarize people so? From a business point of view they are a success. From what I can see, they have transformed the European Shorthaul market from one which was dominated by expensive national airlines to one that meets the needs of millions of ordinary people. I have been studying their corporate governance especially around the safety aspects and balance sheet which seems sound and makes them a viable going concern. So what am I missing? I have no connection with Ryanair, i have just picked them as a case study for an assignment and stumbled on PPRUNE.

Why do people love to hate MOL? There is no law or stock exchange governance which says the CEO has to be likeable. On any measure of KPIs, Ryanairs strategy looks sound, especially their aircraft leasing business.


So what am I missing. I have flown with Ryanair a few years ago when I visited Europe. Yes the seating was cramped, the flight was full, but the cost was very low and the flight was on time. The list of extra charges was long, but even included, the flight was half the price of the next nearest operator. I felt I got good value from the contract, even if the experience wasnt overally pleasent. I chose price over comfort.

So as I say, what am I missing? Is it just that MOL has chosen to brazenly stoke the media to promote the airline that people dont like, or is he really compromising safety for profits? Or breaking local employment laws or stock exchange rules? I see no evidence for this, but please collect me.

I have studied their T and Cs which clearly states the contract you are entering into when you fly with them. Are many of the complaints because people mis understand this contract? If I was a Ryanair shareholder, to make my business model work , of course I would hold passengers to the contract they have entered in to.

Again I assure you, I am purely interested in Ryanair as a business case. I have no connection with them and I am not interested in promoting them or otherwise. Its just that the reaction to anything 'Ryanair' seems overly out of proportion. So what gives?

Could one argue that this is the mastery of MOL as CEO? the 'no such thing as bad news approach?' Constant promotion , good or bad, of Ryanair?

I reserve the right to use any of the replies in my business report on Ryaniar.

Many Thanks! Bruce.

[Chidken Sangwich]

Stevek - passenger figures.

My post was about finance/yield, not bums on seats. You can easily increase passenger numbers by selling seats for 1p, but that isnt going to help when you are taking delivery of a new aircraft every two weeks and cant fill them at a decent yield.

[Stevek]

Stevek - passenger figures.

My post was about finance/yield, not bums on seats. You can easily increase passenger numbers by selling seats for 1p, but that isnt going to help when you are taking delivery of a new aircraft every two weeks and cant fill them at a decent yield.

You are incorrect again. :rolleyes: At least base your facts on something...

Ryanair, Europe‟s largest passenger airline today (July 25 2011) announced a Q1 net profit of €139m a slight increase of 1% on Q1 last year. Revenues grew by 29% to €1,155m as traffic increased 18% and ave. fares rose 11%. Unit costs rose by 14% due to a 49% increase in fuel costs. Excluding fuel, sector length adjusted unit costs fell by 1%.

Half year results will no be avaialabe till Nov. 7.
http://www.ryanair.com/doc/investor/2012/q1_2012_doc.pdf

[Chidken Sangwich]

I still cant see anything there that says anything about YIELD...:ugh:

[Stevek]

Fares rise, yields increase. Fares have risen both this year and last year.

[Chidken Sangwich]

Not neccessarily...

ave. fares rose 11%. Unit costs rose by 14%.

To me that indicates a decrease in yield.

[Stevek]

Average fares have risen for more than just this Q1. Again full year expectations:

We expect average fares in FY12 to rise by up to 12% due to the
better mix of new routes and bases, our winter capacity cuts, higher competitor fares and fuel surcharges. We anticipate Q2 yields will rise by 12% to 15%. We expect operating costs per passenger for FY12 to rise by 13% due to higher oil prices.

http://www.ryanair.com/doc/investor/2012/q1_2012_doc.pdf

[Skipness One Echo]

Fares rise, yields increase. Fares have risen both this year and last year.

Fares are going up through increased taxation as well which puts people off flying without adding to the bottom line of the carrier. Anyway the fact that Ryanair slash capactity in the winter is a good thing, parked aircraft are a good thing, crews put out to pasture are a good thing for the business.
It's completely counter intuitive but in my previous life in B2B analytics, we always found that straight line companies with steady employment were much more likely to go bust than companies with fluctuating employment which were ruthless on costs.

Aircraft parked up at airfields across Europe is presented as a harbinger of doom for the company, but look a little further and they're not really.

PIK is dropping from 6 to 2 based units for the winter, bad for staff and capacity but so long as they are back to 6 in this highly seasonal market next year I can live with that. Flying (not so) fresh air around the skies of Europe never made anyone rich.

[pee]

Ryanair ANNOUNCES NEW BADEN-BADEN BASE (No 47)

19 ROUtes & 800,000 paX P.A. IN 4th German base


Ryanair, the world's favourite airline, today (25th Oct) announced it would open its 47th base at Baden-Baden (Karlsruhe) Airport in March 2012 with two based aircraft and 20 routes, delivering over 800,000 passengers p.a., and sustaining 800 jobs in the Baden region.


In addition to Ryanair's existing 12 Baden-Baden routes Ryanair will open 7 new routes to Faro, Malaga, Palma, Riga, Thessaloniki, Vilnius and Zadar to go on sale on ryanair.com tomorrow (26 Oct) and bring to 19 the number of routes served from Baden-Baden by Ryanair in Summer 2012.

[LGS6753]

Bruce -

The polarised opinions about Ryanair are particularly evident here on Pprune - the 'home' of lots of people who take an interest, or make a living in aviation. MOL is indeed an excellent CEO in many ways, especially if viewing Ryanair as a business, rather than a service or an employer.

Opinion against Ryanair comes from a number of sources:'

Disgruntled passengers. FR abide strictly by their Ts & Cs, and those are tightly written. If you don't understand them or haven'y read them and fall foul of them, you're an unhappy bunny. Also, other European airlines go to some lengths to assist passengers caught up in industrial disputes, bad weather, volcanic ash and the like, but FR do the contractual minimum.

Disgruntled employees/potential employees. The vast majority of FR 'staff', including pilots, are contractors working for agencies. They do not enjoy the full package of benefits once expected in aviation, are generally not unionised, and again FR maximise their contractual rights. Individuals may feel aggrieved at this attitude, but there is a wider concern that FR is leading a 'race to the bottom', thereby affecting earnings and working conditions throughout the industry in Europe.

Aggressive publicity. MOL is a superb self-publicist, and he does it by being outrageous. Whilst this gets him publicity, he cares not who he insults in the process, thereby winning few friends.

Uncompromising tough attitude in negotiations. If FR don't get their way, they are quite prepared to walk away from airports (and customers) who have come to rely on them. There are numerous examples of routes being pulled, bases closed and airports abandoned, often at short notice. Compensation is limited to outlay.

Some feel (myself included) that some of the innovations used by FR are skewed against the customer, or are punitive. Examples include selection of fee-free payment method, charges for check-in, increased baggage charges in peak season, etc.

Enthusiasts of FR will point to the well-documented successes:

Large modern fleet
Large-scale employment opportunities
Very low basic fares that have opened up air travel to many millions of people, and dozens of places.
Good on-time performance
Few lost bags.
Robust business model
Long term profitability in an industry littered with failures
Strong balance sheet

etc.

[Bournemouth Air]

lots of people are talking of Bournemouth to Malta 2012

When will this be announced

[RAT 5]

"We expect average fares in FY12 to rise by up to 12% due to the........"

How much of the average price paid by the pax is the flight ticket? It is the never ending mantra that RYR have the lowest fare, not the final price paid, which distorts the true picture.

[NorthernCounties]

As a supporter of Ryanair Bruce I can still develop on the two following points.

Good on-time performance
Few lost bags.

This is because they exaggerate the flight times significantly. A flight that takes 50 minutes will be advertised as 1hour 15 minutes.

There are few lost bags because most people aren't stupid enough to pay the extortionate rates for baggage. On a 50 minute short-haul return flight this Winter, I had to cough up £40 for baggage, as I was unable to avoid it! :ouch:

[j636]

Ryanair har efectiva este viernes la cancelacin de 31 vuelos con Alicante - ABC.es (http://www.abc.es/20111025/local-comunidad-valenciana/abci-ryanair-201110251105.html#.TqaK3ENpftU.twitter)

looks like FR cuts will last next summer with only some of the dropped routes restarting.

[Stewart28]

When does the Manchester base start and will they add any new routes before it starts.

[BigFrank]

In early October the Spanish Consejo Nacional de Competición (CNC), the government body in charge of competition published a report on airline subsidies in the 5 year period 2007- 2011 which included many intriguing statistics, though for some reason it excluded Spanair´s current massive subsidy from the Catalan Government

It quoted 250m euro as the total direct subsidy in that period.
It said that Air Nostrum was the biggest beneficiary and Ryanair was the second.

It commented casually that some/ many/ most of the payments were in flagrant disregard of EU regulations.

(Sorry, my "new" configuration of Windows does not let me post links as I used to, but if you Google "cnc subvención Ryanair" you´ll get some of the detals.)

Elsewhere in early August, El País newspaper quoted figures for the row between Ryanair and Catalonia at Girona based on a current annual subsidy of 7m euro with a claim for 15m euro by MOL and an offer of 7.5m euro next year by Catalonia. Deadlock and Ryanair have cut back massively at the end of this week.

It also quoted Spain as accounting for 36% of Ryanair traffic; a two edged sword at the end of the day, I would think.

(It was reported elsewhere that the legal details of the deal between Ryanair and Catalonia at Reus specified that only if Ryanair fell below 50% of its passenger quota were the Catalans allowed to stop paying !)


Is it true that although Frau Merkel is travelling to Brussels by plane tomorrow, the dosh for the continued Ryanair subsidies is so weighty that it will come overland in ten Mercedes Benz pantechnicon trucks to be handed over to the so called LCC as soon as the deal on banks, on the 60%+ Greek default and on size of further bail out funds is struck ?

Will the German electorate agree to swop the euro in the pantechnicons for DM, I wonder, should the euro go belly up when markets open on Thursday morning ?

[Jamie2k9]

Bulgaria: Ryanair Cancels 2 Plovdiv Routes - Novinite.com - Sofia News Agency (http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=133301)


Low cost airline carrier Ryanair has cancelled its regular flights between the second largest Bulgarian city of Plovdiv and Milano.
Ryanair will not launch regular flights from Plovdiv to Frankfurt as it was initially announced, either, Plovdiv Airport's CEO Doychin Angelov told the Bulgarian Darik radio.
"I received an unofficial e-mail an hour ago, I expect the official confirmation tomorrow, " Angelov explained.
"I hope they at least keep the regular flights to Germany, since this destination attracts a lot of interest," he added.
The routes have been dropped due to the Plovdiv's municipality's failure to pay a tax worth BGN 180 000 to the Plovdiv Airport's development fund, according to Angelov

BGY - PDV - dropped form 15 November. Hahn still on sale so far.

[ozzy_bruce]

Thanks LGS6753. A very informative and reasoned reply. I see what you say, the point I missed is SERVICE. I am treating Ryanair as a factory, I have a certain capacity (routes x schedule x aircraft size) and I make money by putting bums on seats. I maximise profits by cutting overhead, coming up with strategies to increase prodcutivity (minimse turn arround times by not having bags etc) and thinking of ways to fill setas. Yep, sevice doesnt have to be a part of any of this - hence the polarised views. NorthernCounties, yes, at 40 euros it would discourage me from checking a bag - however, again, isnt this just a tad genius (form a business point a view) as well? Less baggage, less hassle, less losses, quicker turnarround - again , no service though. Also on the flight times, dont airlines always do that? I do Sydney / Melbourne a lot with Qantas - its is normaly about 1 hr 15 mins flying yet the schedule is more like 1 hr 35 mins - is this usual? Thanks again for your help. I am actually going to consder the role of service in the airline industry. It would appear that if an airline positions itself as super low cost (race to the bottom) then passengers, whilst they may moan, will accept this and still fly in huge numbers. As for the staff, i guess there is always someone willing to do a job at a certain price. Do Ryanair struggle to recruit pilots and cabin crew? Or is it all outsourced as you say?

[befree]

Ryanair are only going to get to 400 million euro profit it they can keep up load factors and rise fares a lot. Also 400m euors is not the same a £400m in the real world.

what they said at q1 results - q2 results are due on 7th dec
Our outlook for the remainder of the year remains unchanged. We anticipate traffic in FY12 will grow by 4% comprising 10% growth in H1, and then fall by approx. 4% in H2 due to already announced winter capacity cuts. We expect average fares in FY12 to rise by up to 12% due to the better mix of new routes and bases, our winter capacity cuts, higher competitor fares and fuel surcharges. We anticipate Q2 yields will rise by 12% to 15%. We expect operating costs per passenger for FY12 to rise by 13% due to higher oil prices. Excluding fuel, sector length adjusted unit costs should rise by just 2% mainly due to Eurocontrol, Dublin airport, and staff cost increases. With very limited visibility on H2 bookings or yields at this time, our full year guidance remains unchanged as we expect profit after tax for FY12 to be similar to the FY11 result of €400m.

[mickyman]

OK-Whats going on .....since Bruce #2145 there have been
some very readable posts on here - not usual for this Ryanair
thread ! I wonder how long it will last.

MM

[eastern wiseguy]

Until post 2164 it seems........

[Stevek]

Ryanair are only going to get to 400 million euro profit it they can keep up load factors and rise fares a lot. Also 400m euors is not the same a £400m in the real world.

what they said at q1 results - q2 results are due on 7th dec

An Irish company who conducts most of their business in the Eurozone, why would the figure be in Sterling? Unless you mean €459M would be better....

[Chidken Sangwich]

An Irish company who conducts most of their business in the Eurozone, why would the figure be in Sterling? Unless you mean €459M would be better....

See post 2135...

[Stevek]

Your point? :confused:

[Chidken Sangwich]

Post 1235 refers to a figure of £400m, so that's where befree is making reference to the difference between £/€.

[peba]

Anybody know how I can see what flights are operated by which base using the ryanair website.I know how to check what flights are available but would like to know the roster pattern of each A/C. e.g. DUB STN.both are bases but how do I find out which base operates it(I know its a bit of both!!)but trying to find particular flight parings accross the network.

[pee]

In early October the Spanish Consejo Nacional de Competición (CNC), the government body in charge of competition published a report on airline subsidies in the 5 year period 2007- 2011 which included many intriguing statistics, though for some reason it excluded Spanair´s current massive subsidy from the Catalan Government

It quoted 250m euro as the total direct subsidy in that period.
It said that Air Nostrum was the biggest beneficiary and Ryanair was the second.
@BigFrank

Your crusades and campaign against Ryanair must have some good reasons with a possible explanation related to Girona as your point of origin. Nevertheless, you could at least try to preserve a little objectivity in your opinions.

So, you suggest Ryanair was the big beneficiary and worst predator?

Let me quote in your own language:
La Xunta paga hasta 120 euros por cada viajero en vuelos de bajo coste
That's what El Pais Galicia wrote (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/Galicia/Xunta/paga/120/euros/viajero/vuelos/coste/elpepuespgal/20110109elpgal_3/Tes) earlier this year, I'll translate it: "The regional government pays up to 120 euros per passenger on flights of low cost".
120 € per pax... so that's why you hate Ryanair? But wait, let's read more:

"Here is the comparison between the amount of money invested by Xunta (local government) and the number of passengers flown. The Galician government subsidizes each trip between Vigo and Brussels with the amount (of Euros) 55.5 and every passage between Santiago and Zurich with 24.5 euro per passenger, both connections operated by Vueling. This data comes from dividing the amounts paid by the regional government by the number of passengers recorded by AENA. A couple of other examples: Xunta paid to Air Nostrum 121.6 euros per passenger flying from Seville to Vigo. The same airline receives 91.2 euros per tourist arriving from Valencia to La Coruna. These contrast with the maximum rates paid to Ryanair, 3.8 euros for every traveler who came last year to Santiago from London, Rome or Paris.

You could have mentioned this as well. I'd say you should have, shouldn't you? It was about Galicia, but also in your region, Catalonia, the differences between subsidies per pax received by Spanish airlines (Air Nostrum among them) and Ryanair were extremely significant. I know the range, I'm sure you know that as well. Why didn't you tell us what sums per pax in both Girona and El Prat were involved? In the name of objectivity, dear friend!


PS. I'm not a Spanish speaker, the translations are rough and based on Google.

[BigFrank]

"So, you suggest Ryanair was the big(gest) beneficiary and worst predator?"

If you calm down and look back, I said quite clearly that Air Nostrum was 1st and Ryanair was 2nd as "beneficiary" in a list which specifically excluded Spanair.

If you glance at the press report below you will see that the assertion, by the CNC, the official Spanish competition watchdog, is that Ryanair´s subsidy was about 50% of Air Nostrum´s but that Ryanair´s share of the subsidy trough was markedly on the up over the period in question. (Two parts underlined by me)



Las ayudas de las comunidades autónomas y otras entidades públicas a las aerolíneas ascendió a más de 247 millones de euros en ese lapso, siendo Air Nostrum la principal perceptora, con diferencia, de estas ayudas para la promoción turística.
En segundo lugar figura Ryanair, que sólo consiguió ayudas por un monto de alrededor de la mitad del destinado a la franquiciada de Iberia, aunque, según la CNC, éste ha ido creciendo consistentemente a lo largo de los últimos cinco años.
A una distancia considerable en cuanto al montante de las ayudas públicas conseguidas en este último lustro, se encuentra situada Lagunair, una aerolínea leonesa que abandonó sus operaciones en 2009, así como Vueling, que consiguieron comparativamente alrededor de un 20 por ciento (o menos en el caso de Vueling) de la cuantía de las ayudas concedidas a Air Nostrum.
Por su parte, las demás compañías, entre las que se cuentan Air Berlin, Air Europa, Spanair, Wizz Air y Easyjet, se vieron beneficiadas de cantidades muy inferiores, del orden de los 5 millones de euros o menos, y el resto no llegó al millón de euros.

What "right" has Air Nostrum, Ryanair, Spanair or any of the other companies mentioned to bleed the Spanish /EU taxpayer dry ?


Why are they entitled to subsidies which the CNC casually affirms are ILLEGAL under EU law ?

(Yes some subsidies are allowed but only in very specific cases. An element of such subsidies is that they must decrease in time and the company must continue on the routes after they are ended. Yet Ryanair is negotiating to increase the subsidies and when the subsidies end it just walks away !)

If MOL is such a capitalistic business genius, why doesn´t he operate in the open commercial market free of government subsidies, I ask you ?

And of course where Air Nostrum is bleeding dry the Spanish exchequer, and Spanair doing the same for Catalonia, Ryanair is bleeding Catalonia and Spain, Belgium, France, Portugal,.... Need I continue ?

You may enjoy the benefits of this gravy train but I resent my taxes being wasted (illegaly at that !!!!) to keep MOL and family in the life-style to which they have become accustomed.



"Worst predator" ?

No comment.

[grassy]

Presumabely you are not in the tourist industry. If I was in spain I would be digging deep to keep them flying there , not just in the summer but all year - Catalonia has so much to offer but digging their heels in does nothing for a failing economy.

Or get on the phone to Easyjet.

[BigFrank]

Currently my small town, though both pretty and scenic does not have any restaurants, because the minute local population will not sustain them, but if people from Barcelona about 75km away had a government subsidised train service with 6 trains an hour between Barcelona and here from 17:00 till 01:00 every day I reckon I could open a string of restaurants and make a very good living.

Why won´t the authorities entertain this idea which would be most beneficial for me and for my extended family ?

Why do they insist that EU regulations specifically outlaw this type of deal ?

Why, nonetheless, do they offer this deal to Air Nostrum and to Ryanair ?

[racedo]

Currently my small town, though both pretty and scenic does not have any restaurants, because the minute local population will not sustain them, but if people from Barcelona about 75km away had a government subsidised train service with 6 trains an hour between Barcelona and here from 17:00 till 01:00 every day I reckon I could open a string of restaurants and make a very good living.

Why won´t the authorities entertain this idea which would be most beneficial for me and for my extended family ?

Why do they insist that EU regulations specifically outlaw this type of deal ?

Why, nonetheless, do they offer this deal to Air Nostrum and to Ryanair ?

All the deal you want for the train service you asking of does is moves money around that part of Spain with no new money coming into the region.

If you have thousands of people flying in then not unreasonable to expect that their spending power in the region more than dwarfs the cost of getting them their.

I don't know what the average spend of a passenger coming into the regions' airports are but a guess is €125 per passenger. May seem high but add in cost of hire car, hotel, food, drink etc etc its probably not unreasonable. IVA collected, employment taxes of people employed to work in business sustained by incoming passengers, plus those providing services to them etc etc more than makes up any payment to airlines.

I can understand the issue you are highlighting. Maybe looking at ensuring that the money spent is being used to invest in bringing people from abroad in to the airports rather than being used to prop up politicians local airline.

If €1 M was spent on TV advertising telling people how wonderful the region is (and it is:ok:), is that the best use of that money or is it bring in 300,000 passengers which will pay for itself.

[jdcg]

When booking on FR nowadays quite often, when looking across a week of dates for a flight, the term "low fares available" comes up rather than the individual prices for each of the 7 days. But not always..:\ Why is this?? It makes it much harder to find the cheaper days to fly and inhibits me from booking FR (along with numerous other annoying tactics). Do they do it in the hope that you just get fed up and grab the nearest viewable price??

[j636]

Santander - Malaga delayed over 14 hours. With all the FR bases in Spain FR could of handled it better.

[Jamie2k9]

Anybody know how I can see what flights are operated by which base using the ryanair website.I know how to check what flights are available but would like to know the roster pattern of each A/C. e.g. DUB STN.both are bases but how do I find out which base operates it(I know its a bit of both!!)but trying to find particular flight parings accross the network.


All DUB - STN flights are operated by STN based aircraft for winter except the 6.25 DUB-STN and the 8.10 STN-DUB which is DUB based.

Santander - Malaga delayed over 14 hours. With all the FR bases in Spain FR could of handled it better.

Delayed by a tech fault with the transponder which was fixed but after departure another fault with it, the flight returned less than 45mins after departure.

[eu01]

When booking on FR nowadays quite often, when looking across a week of dates for a flight, the term "low fares available" comes up rather than the individual prices for each of the 7 days. But not always..:\ Why is this?? It makes it much harder to find the cheaper days to fly and inhibits me from booking FR (along with numerous other annoying tactics). Do they do it in the hope that you just get fed up and grab the nearest viewable price??
It's an attempt to comply with the consumer regulatory requirements without performing any proper changes to the booking system. Making no sense? I agree. In effect, possibly losing some customers as well.

[arriva]

Try changing to the Irish Language web site,this shows all flights.:O

[pee]

It's not official yet, but according to my knowledge Spanish AENA has just decided to make concessions to Ryanair and at least partially will allow them to embark pax in Alicante without the airbridges.

Waiting for confirmation. Btw. If true, why not restart ALC - Tampere as well?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

It's not official yet, but according to my knowledge Spanish AENA has just decided to make concessions to Ryanair and at least partially will allow them to embark pax in Alicante without the airbridges.

Waiting for confirmation. Btw. If true, why not restart ALC - Tampere as well?


Its offical. 2 out of every 4 flights that arrive will use air bridges and the other 2 passengers can walk off.

[smith]

befree

We expect average fares in FY12 to rise by up to 12% due to the better mix of new routes and bases, our winter capacity cuts, higher competitor fares and fuel surcharges.


I thought FR had absolutely 'no fuel surcharges'???

[pee]

^^ higher competitor fares and fuel surcharges
Competitor fuel surcharges in question. Ryanair's own credit card surcharges not mentioned.

[mrjames1967]

Does anyone know which airports are being lined up in Scandinavia. Apparently two in central/northern Sweden according to recent reports.

Any word on a KSD-London link?

[pee]

Swedish Umeå is very close to an agreement with Ryanair, not signed yet - but it's still possible the flights would start in March.

Besides, a couple other Swedish airports negotiate as well. Same about Norway.

Danish Copenhagen... a miracle should happen, otherwise FR entry won't happen next year.

Finland... Lappeenranta was offered more flights, but this small town simply can't afford paying more money for Russian pax coming from St. Petersburg directly to Ryanair flights. Usually they do not spend their pennies in Finland at all. Tampere should get a new low cost terminal by next Autumn. No word about any new destinations in Finland.

[mrjames1967]

Thanks pee for that information. Most interesting. Do you know anything specific to Karlstad?

[pee]

^^ The Girona route should restart from end March next year. New routes? No leaks so far.

[sam dilly]

Any news on Stansted - Biarritz for next summer ?
All the other routes from Stansted to France seem to be in place.
It would be a shame to see that go, but is Vitoria in Spain an alternative ?
Might suit me.

[EI-BUD]

sam dilly, I think Ryanair used to fly to Vitoria but closed the routes down. I may stand to be corrected but am fairly confident....

EI-BUD

[IJM]

It would be a shame to see that go, but is Vitoria in Spain an alternative ?

Sam - you could also try flights to/from Bilbao - eg. Easyjet (Stansted) or Vueling (Heathrow).

[Jamie2k9]

Any news on Stansted - Biarritz for next summer ?
All the other routes from Stansted to France seem to be in place.
It would be a shame to see that go, but is Vitoria in Spain an alternative ?
Might suit me.


No flights from Biarritz are on sale for next summer yet. It will be November before all flights are on sale across the network.

[arriva]

Any sign of flights from Liverpool yet. See that Manchester has had its flights on sale for a while now .

[PPRuNeUser0176]

It's not official yet, but according to my knowledge Spanish AENA has just decided to make concessions to Ryanair and at least partially will allow them to embark pax in Alicante without the airbridges.

Waiting for confirmation. Btw. If true, why not restart ALC - Tampere as well?

Ryanair rejected the proposal by ALC to allow 2 out of 4 flights use steps. ALC have in a roundabout way they are not holding further talks.

[gossipboy]

Venice-Treviso airport will open on 5th DEC as planned and from S12 all airlines will increase their flights (W6, WU, 4U, HV).
Any news from FR?

[BHX5DME]

One arrived Saturday, Seven arriving Sunday for Winter parking !

[Ian Brooks]

Make the airport look full then! I`m amazed they haven`t put most at Prestwick
with all that spare ramp space as you could almost lose them on that

Ian B

[GnRdL]

Ryanair Parking aircraft at BHX
One arrived Saturday, Seven arriving Sunday for Winter parking !
Three aircrafts coming from ALC today and five more to STN.

[Ian Brooks]

How many stored at STN in total?


Ian B

[eu01]

How many stored in total?All these machines could have been transferred to Ciudad Real. Sooo wide storage space there :ouch:.

[j636]

Ryanair veut acheter une compagnie sud-américaine | Air Journal (http://www.air-journal.fr/2011-10-29-ryanair-veut-acheter-une-compagnie-sud-americaine-538406.html)

In French. Must say its the biggest load of bull I have herd in a long time.:ok:

[BigFrank]

As the above is the opening gambit by the French journalist, it tells you an awful lot about the accuracy of what you can expect later.

[DomyDom]

Jamie2K9, Please can you indicate whether any more new routes are likley to be added from MAN for next summer? Thanks, DomyDom

[Jamie2k9]

MAN - Rome-CIA going daily from end of March. Rome based aircraft going to operate the extra 3 flights.

The current summer flights have the 4 aircraft operating all the time so can't say about new routes.

[NorthernCounties]

Is it known yet if ldy has definitely lost alc? And possible new routes or extra rotations for ldy, its been quiet for quite a while.

[Jamie2k9]

FR said on Thursday if its ok to use steps for 2 out of 4 flights, why can't all fligths use steps. He said some routes will return and some won't.

[peba]

so no more irish routes from MAN then?would have thought snn or ork....

[EI-DAC]

In Italy no flights on sale yet for S12 from Ancona, Turin, Venice. Discussions ongoing...

[gossipboy]

What kind of "discussions"?! ;)

[Cyrano]

As the above is the opening gambit by the French journalist, it tells you an awful lot about the accuracy of what you can expect later.

The journalist's "opening gambit" as you refer to it is to describe Ryanair as "the Irish low cost airline". Which part of that statement do you have a problem with? It's not as though he/she is claiming they have good service or anything...

[BigFrank]

As the registered offices are in the RoI, I can have no quibble with (i)

As the fleet is Boeings, rather than Volvos or Leylands, I can have no quibble with (iii)

So we are left with (ii) by a process of elimination.

Now obviously had the French journalist written "Irish low class airline" nobody could possibly have quibbled.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

BigFrank -

Whether or not one likes or dislikes the Ryanair product as a customer, it is undeniable that the company is the epitome of a low-cost airline. The low cost base at Ryanair is legendary within the industry. However, always remember that the term "low-cost" in this instance refers to the cost base achieved and reported on the company balance sheet. It is a common misconception amongst the traveling public that the term refers to the tariffs they pay for tickets. Not so. There is no direct link. An airline is categorised as "low cost" from the point of view of the industry and its shareholders. The product the customers experience is best described as "no frills", which is not the same thing at all. A low-cost airline still uses yield management techniques to maximise revenue from fares. Ticket prices will be high whenever the opportunity arises to sell seats at high yields. A low cost base does not imply a desire to forego the pursuit of maximum profits.

I can find no reason at all to quibble with the French journalist in this case. His introductory description of Ryanair is right on the mark.

I hope this clarifies things. Regards. SHED.

[Cyrano]

Outstanding summary, Mr Shed. :ok:

[BigFrank]

Thanks for the patient explanation of what they teach you on MBA courses. (Though I was a shade disappointed that you didn´t encourage me to learn to "think outside the box." But perhaps that comes in lesson 2?)

Now for the real world:


Pax/ passengers/ punters/ fare paying public members do not give a stuff as to the business model. They do not opt for airlines because:
they have lots of hidden charges,
because their CEO likes dressing up in funny costumes or insulting foreign hacks or politicians,
because they only fly one type of aircraft,
because they think that Ireland West is really NYC East

or any other fantasy but rather because they have cheap tickets.

To put it in plain English they think that:

Low cost means what it says on the tin; i. e. cheap tickets.

(I was however probably wrong in my initial intro to the French article. I think I failed to get an adjectival gender agreement right !)

[pee]

Err... To be "no frills" without a truly low-cost base (including a financial discipline) means either having to sell tickets at higher than expected fare prices or possibly to face a threat of bankruptcy.
There were several so-called lcc's that went bust or had to change their affiliation. Look at Air Berlin for instance. Not cheap any more, still in debts.

[Ian Brooks]

You can never say Ryanair is lo-cost unless you have a degree in O`Learyism
and can work his system otherwise it can cost a lot of hidden charges

Ian B

[ayroplain]

Interesting fare calculations on FR website this morning:confused:


http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1281/frpricing.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/frpricing.jpg/)

[CCFAIRPORT]

6 NEW ROUTES FROM OSLO/RYGGE TO

Chania/ Creta
Corfu
Lodz
Milan / Bergamo
Pula
Toulon

All routes will start on March 2012

[pee]

@ayroplain. It all depends where you are.
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/920/faresfi.jpg

[ayroplain]

Thanks, pee. What an odd way of doing things. Still, the bottom line is the same :)

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hmmm ... quite the hornet's nest here, I see. Well, the Ryanair product is always a controversial topic. A bit like marmite. Some folks love the Ryanair experience, others loathe it. But this is all subjective stuff; open to personal opinions and interpretation. Constructive discussion of the subject is healthy and can be illuminating (to both customer and company).

Speaking for myself, I try to put aside emotions when assessing an airline's ability to meet my travel needs. I simply evaluate the product offered and note whether or not it dovetails with my travel requirements at an acceptable price. A similar process follows for each alternative option, and then a final purchase decision is made. Value for money is important, but one must recognise and accept the limitations of the product selected. Most purchases represent some level of compromise in balancing quality against price paid. And we all have our own personal threshold beyond which we decline the opportunity to purchase. Sometimes, the compromises do not revolve purely around price. For example, I passionately loathe the tortuous Ryanair online booking process which is akin to enduring some online battlecraft game with pounds instead of points at stake. Show me the final price at the outset with a nice box labelled "BUY" next to it, please! But I am prepared to tolerate this infuriating, time-wasting process because the "prize" of a non-stop return flight from, say, Manchester to Bremen at an attractive price is worth putting up with the hassle experienced in making the booking. Alternative journeys would be more time consuming and less convenient. Presented with two otherwise similar products, I would choose the one with the quick and straightforward reservations process.

But the example above relates to the subjective factors which influence our booking choices. We can choose whether to purchase a ticket (or not). We can decide whether to pre-book a luggage allowance, or take the airline's own insurance. We can accept or reject the list of optional (or unavoidable?) add-ons which pop up as the booking process progresses. Ultimately, we can reject the option to purchase at all. Whether you do that because you have located a better deal elsewhere or because you "hate" an airline is entirely up to you as an individual. Whatever your reasoning, it is entirely your own choice whether you boycott a product, cheerlead it, or tolerate it in the absence of a preferable alternative.

However, whilst the decision to like or dislike the Ryanair PRODUCT (or any other) is entirely yours, the definition of the company's business model is not open to interpretation in the same way. The business model simply is what it is, regardless of your emotional response to it. The company cost base is represented by a bunch of numbers which appear in the regular financial statements which must be produced to prescribed accountancy standards. And Ryanair's cost base is very low. Hence, the company IS a low cost airline. Its costs are low, and the company pursues a strategy which keeps them so. Whether you choose to like or dislike the NO FRILLS product which arises from that low cost base is another matter entirely. You are at liberty to love the low cost airline, or to hate the low cost airline ... but you are not at liberty to redefine the company business model based upon the price you pay for an air ticket to Alicante. There is NO LINK between the company's in-house (low) cost base reported to shareholders and the (high) price you pay for a ticket to Spain on the first Saturday of half-term. That is determined by yield management software reacting to supply and demand in the marketplace.

BIG FRANK. All your comments make it crystal clear that you dislike the Ryanair product. Fair enough. That choice is yours alone to make as a consumer. But to state as you do that: "low cost means what it says on the tin; ie. cheap tickets" is simply wrong. You completely misrepresent the reality. Do not confuse ticket price with cost base. The airline's cost base is the same on the quiet day in November as it is on the day when a "must see" event packs out the aircraft with customers willing to pay GBP400 each for a short trip. In both instances, the airline satisfies the true industry definition of being a low cost carrier - because its COSTS remain low. The TARIFF paid for the tickets varies from low to high based solely upon yield management of demand for the available tickets. These tickets will be priced to maximise profits for the company. In periods of high demand, the company knows that whilst some customers will baulk at a high price, sufficient numbers will accept the elevated rates which result in the most profitable outcome for the airline. And in all cases (with Ryanair) the customer is buying a no-frills flight. NOT a low-cost flight ... that term does not apply to fares ... a no-frills flight. From the point of view of a city analyst, Ryanair is justifiably described as a "low-cost airline". From the point of view of a traveler, Ryanair is best described as a "no-frills airline". Familiarise yourself with this distinction, and you will become much more adept at selecting travel products in the future. The terms are not interchangeable, nor are they matters of subjective opinion. If you insist on presuming a link between low costs on a company balance sheet and cheap product pricing, then you are choosing to delude yourself.

By the way, thanks very much for awarding me an MBA. I am deeply flattered. Where do I collect my certificate?!!! I didn't invite you to "think outside the box" because I didn't know you were in one. It sounds quite uncomfortable to me, but hey - each to their own! :-)

PEE. I concur with your point that an airline must have low costs in order to viably offer low fares. But that does not mean that the airline concerned will not price tickets at the highest level the market will bear. A commercial airline will always seek to maximise its profits. We frequently see this when a major Champion's League football match takes place; customers moan about "rip-off" fares, but this is simply the market at work. High demand = high fares. Company costs remain unchanged. We may not like this fact, but it is helpful to recognise and understand the economics behind it.

IAN BROOKS. I generally agree with your postings, but on this occasion I must respectfully disagree. Ryanair is absolutely low-cost. It is the industry poster-child of low-cost. Whether or not one likes MOL's personal style is a different subject entirely. The hidden charges to which you refer are intensely frustrating (I agree), but these are not a reflection upon the company's cost structure. Those hidden charges boost the income side of the balance sheet; company costs appear on the other side of the ledger!

And last but not least, CYRANO. Thankyou for your comments.

Regards to all. SHED.

[RAT 5]

Regarding the hike-ing of prices to match certain 'must see events', I'm always surprised how full the LoCo's are. Those last % tickets must be at premium rates for a 'no-frills' product. It is often the case that on // routes I can fly with my national carrier cheaper than the LoCo. IT still amazes me that too many of the travelling pax seem to think a LoCo will always be cheaper. The big boys are fighting back. Good capitalism.

[BigFrank]

"BIG FRANK. .... But to state as you do that: "low cost means what it says on the tin; ie. cheap tickets" is simply wrong. You completely misrepresent the reality."

¿ Now what exactly makes me think I would have to go something [and then a bit more, I reckon] to rival you in that particular department ?

Though next time I want to buy a ticket, I will keep your subtle semantic disitinctions in mind. ¡ And then continue to avoid the no class airline at all costs !

Néanmoins je continue à vous assurer de mes sentiments bien estimés.

[CCFAIRPORT]

Any news about new routes to Carcassonne ?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Big Frank -

If you believe that my synopsis misrepresents the reality, then I'm afraid to say that you display zero grasp of real world airline economics (zut alors!). But that is your choice. You are at liberty to embrace false notions if they comfort you, but reality will not bend to your wishes. As for which airline you favour with your business, that is entirely a matter for yourself to decide. I have no vested interest in promoting use of one company over another. Nice French, by the way.

RAT 5 -

You are quite right that the legacy carriers often offer fares which undercut the locos. Part of the reason for this is the very problem which we have been discussing. A large portion of the traveling public *believes* that the term "low-cost (airline)" refers to the fare they will pay. It never crosses their mind to suppose that it refers to another aspect of the business entirely. And of course, the LCC's have no incentive whatsoever to disabuse customers of this myth; it helps drive bookings their way! It is alarming to note how many travellers never think to check fares on the legacy carriers, because, well ... they're not "low-cost" are they? Their tickets must surely be more expensive! Once you understand the realities of the business model, you can position yourself to genuinely take advantage of the best deals from all sectors of the industry.

Best Regards. SHED.

[eu01]

Nice reading guys, I esteem especially Shed's clear view and analytic approach.

I'd just add a few words. I do value Ryanair's "cost discipline", being so stingy and rapacious at the same time apparently pays off. What the carrier misses here is their lack of appreciation for some "small nuances" that really do not cost very much but might be worthwhile things. Customer-friendliness is one of them, the obvious need for preventing the shabby image of "low cost, low quality airline" is another. Too many blackmails went public, the numerous fights for a few euro fees/ taxes/ support are not a secret any more, this harms. Too much distrust among the business partners was created, repeatedly selfish attitude became obvious, the criticism intensifies. These aren't irreversible things, but some kind of "face lifting" is needed.

[ayroplain]

Nice work, Shed but, I think, Joe Public may have one more consideration - performance. Regardless of how much I pay for a flight there is one thing I want (almost) guaranteed. I'm not interested in announcements like "Due to the late arrival of the inbound aircraft....". I want to arrive on time and I want to see the airline staff busting a gut to see that I do. Ryanair does both of those better than any other airline I have ever flown with some of whom don't do either.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair announce 6 new Oslo-Rygge routes from March 2012 increasing traffic to 2.2 million next year.
Chania
Corfu
Lodz
Milan-BGY
Pula
Toulon

[North West]

However, always remember that the term "low-cost" in this instance refers to the cost base achieved and reported on the company balance sheet. It is a common misconception amongst the traveling public that the term refers to the tariffs they pay for tickets. Not so. There is no direct link.

I don't agree. There is very clear and direct link. The cost base drives the ticket price which drives the demand and the competitive advantage.

The short haul market is massively commodotised and price sensitive. O'Leary ends every investor presentation with the phrase 'LOWEST COST ALWAYS WINS' for good reason (they do use the capital letters too). The cheaper his costs, the cheaper his fares and the more seats he sells.

The phrases 'lowest fares' or 'low fares airline' are still commonly used in press and PR including news releases relating to Baden Baden and Wroclow just this week

[racedo]

The cost base drives the ticket price which drives the demand and the competitive advantage.


Are you talking Ryanair or all airlines ?

If cost was the sole determining factor in setting ticket prices then how could airlines ever lose money ?

Lowest cost give a competitve advantage but it cannot, nor will ever be the determinant in whether a business is successful.

You need to deliver a consistent service and that includes being ontime, less lost luggage etc etc. People bitch about booking tickets but people remember a delayed flight more with the luggage lost than how they booked it.

Being able to define what the customer wants, rather than what the headline writers on the tabloids tell you, is more a determinant of success and returning customers.

Knowing when you see your plane land it will take off with you on board in 25 minutes beats seeing it land and taking of in 90 minutes when you wondering why it takes so long. Yup reasons for it but you are talking of SLF's looking to fly and rationality may not be strongest point.

Walmart gets slated in the US by the media all the time and its the one they love to hate but 2 million people worldwide get paid by them every month and its the biggest company by Sales in the wold.


The short haul market is massively commodotised and price sensitive. O'Leary ends every investor presentation with the phrase 'LOWEST COST ALWAYS WINS' for good reason (they do use the capital letters too). The cheaper his costs, the cheaper his fares and the more seats he sells.

The phrases 'lowest fares' or 'low fares airline' are still commonly used in press and PR including news releases relating to Baden Baden and Wroclow just this week

Just because something is a commodity doesn't mean it can't be turned into something profitable and desireable..........Bottle of water anybody ?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi North West -

I am not in disagreement with you to the extent that a low cost base delivers a company (such as Ryanair) the means to sustain lower prices for its product than a competitor burdened with higher costs. That is a key advantage for a company engaged in a price war, for example. They will win a war of attrition with a competitor when exceptional circumstances demand this.

The point upon which I do disagree with you centres on the implication that simply because a company is materially capable of getting by whilst charging lower prices, it will consequently do so in practice as a matter of routine policy. I contend that under normal circumstances, the company will prioritise enhancement of its operating margins to maximise profitablility as demanded by shareholders. The company's first loyalty is to its owners, the shareholders. It is nice for a company to have the wherewithal to sustain low margins when market conditions demand it, but as a rule elevated margins will take precedence in the absence of unusual circumstances. Hence a low cost base *enables* low fares to be sustained, but it is not a given that the airline will routinely choose to offer them. The profit imperative overrides the possibility of an implicit direct link between the ability to offer a very low fare and the motivation to actually do so.

Thus, borrowing an example quoted earlier, the company *could* offer an extremely low fare on MAN-ALC on the first Saturday of schools half-term. Ryanair's low cost base enables this. But we all know that they will not actually do so, because the company exists to make profits ... the more the better. This is why there is no DIRECT link between low costs and low fares. The former enables the latter but does not mandate it.

With regards to Ryanair's publicity pronouncements, I am the first to acknowledge that the company is run by a PR genius (whether you like him or not). Low fares are Ryanair's USP. But the ability to sell a ticket at just above its (very low) intrinsic cost is not the same thing as routinely doing so in practice. There is no automatic link from cause (low costs) to effect (lowest possible fare being offered at all times) in this case. Very low fares are made available on a tactical basis only.

Anyway, thankyou for your response. This is an interesting discussion. At least I think so!

Regards. SHED.

RACEDO: Thankyou for the interesting points you contribute. Apologies for any element of duplication here. Your posting appeared between the time I read North West's post and completed composition of this one.

[potash]

FR- no flights to FUE for summer 2012 yet from stanstead. East mids. Dublin. and no flights to any canary island as yet from Edinburgh. The first three however have flights bookable to the other three islands. Any idea when or if flights will available to FUE.

[LBIA]

So dose anyone what Michael O'Leary has in store for his press conference tomorrow morning at Leeds/Bradford.

I guess some more new routes and extra based aircraft would do nicely for next summer 2012 season.

[RAT 5]

I'd just add a few words. I do value Ryanair's "cost discipline", being so stingy and rapacious at the same time apparently pays off. What the carrier misses here is their lack of appreciation for some "small nuances" that really do not cost very much but might be worthwhile things. Customer-friendliness is one of them",

Hm? not sure about this in depth. Employee friendliness is very vital and missing totally. This lack of company team ethics will bite back and IMHO prove that the stingy rapacious culture does not pay off in the long term. Voting with feet is underway.

[EI-DAC]

Routes Bologna-Fez and Bologna-Marrakech were downgraded to summer seasonal.

[Jamie2k9]

So dose anyone what Michael O'Leary has in store for his press conference tomorrow morning at Leeds/Bradford.

I guess some more new routes and extra based aircraft would do nicely for next summer 2012 season.


Would expect a 3 aircraft...

Oslo base going from 3 to 4 aircraft from March.


FR- no flights to FUE for summer 2012 yet from stanstead. East mids. Dublin. and no flights to any canary island as yet from Edinburgh. The first three however have flights bookable to the other three islands. Any idea when or if flights will available to FUE.


It takes time to load all flights.

[peba]

MOL will be in LBA then onto to MAN to officially open the base there.Hope the Manchester university students turn up again!!!

[CCFAIRPORT]

An extra based aircraft at LEEDS BRADFORD AIRPORT this summer
6 NEW ROUTES TO:

Creta / Chania
Corfu
Dinard
Kos
Milan / Bergamo
Tenerfie / Reina Sofia

[eu01]

Not sure what significance that news could possibly have, let's just note it as a curiosity:
Last month there were reports than an Irish consortium, back by Aergo group, had purchased 65% of Peruvian Airlines.

New reports indicated the consortium also includes low cost airline Ryanair.

Peruvian Airlines owner Caesar Cataño told TNews that the consortium intends to “break the market” and plan on achieving 50% of the market share.

“Aergo told me they are finalizing things to come work with Ryanair, with all the low-cost know how.”

The sale will be completed by mid-November.
Source: Peru this Week (http://www.peruthisweek.com/news-922-Ryanair-to-start-operations-in-Peru-and-more-aviation-news/)

[j636]

Since when are Ryanair and DAA on good terms??

I see Ryanair adds in Irish newspapers are being suported by the DAA. FR advertising fixed priced flights with no taxes and charges.

[Ringwayman]

In talks with MAN to take the total based aircraft to 6 by 2013 and are reporting strong demand on the routes they've started this week (having some some of the pax figures in this 1st week of operations, there is more than a grain of truth in this!). They are also focusing in on MAN and LBA for the time being with LPL being ruled out for growth.

[airforced]

Post 2221 by Shed makes a good, if long winded, read. He tries, successfully in my opinion, to disabuse Joe Public that the idea of a low cost carrier is most certainly not the same as a low fares airline.

MOL tries to kid people, and in the main he has succeeded, into thinking that Ryan is a low fares airline by eternally banging on about 99p fares to here there and everywhere whereas the truth is a million miles away from that. They wouldn't be turning in profits every year at 99p a seat would they?

Keep up the good work Shed as I think you will need to repeat your message over and over again and even then the penny won't drop with a large percentage of "Joe Public".

[EuroWings]

Post 2221 by Shed makes a good, if long winded, read. He tries, successfully in my opinion, to disabuse Joe Public that the idea of a low cost carrier is most certainly not the same as a low fares airline.

MOL tries to kid people, and in the main he has succeeded, into thinking that Ryan is a low fares airline by eternally banging on about 99p fares to here there and everywhere whereas the truth is a million miles away from that. They wouldn't be turning in profits every year at 99p a seat would they?

Keep up the good work Shed as I think you will need to repeat your message over and over again and even then the penny won't drop with a large percentage of "Joe Public".

It depends on what your definition of a low fare actually is, if it's 99p then no Ryanair does not offer many of them. However, Ryanair claims to offer base fares which are lower than competitiors and according to their own 'average fare analysis' this is true (I don't have the figures). It's naive to think that everyone pays a low amount too.

I don't think 'the average fare' takes into account 'optional' fees, so in my opinion it's not necessarily an accurate reflection of what each passenger actually pays. Of course, MOL puts a spin on things.

[McGoonagall]

MOL due to appear on BBC Breakfast News in a while. Programme is asking for questions to put to him. No doubt cuddly censorship will apply.

[FR-]

Im a little shocked on how unprofessional that reporter was with her attitude towards MOL. I dont understand why you would invite someone on if your going to but in everytime MOL tries to answer a question.

fr-

[FR-]

RYANAIR HALF YEAR PROFITS RISE 20% TO €544m
TRAFFIC GROWS 12% - FULL YEAR GUIDANCE RAISED 10% TO €440m.


Ryanair, the world's favourite airline today (Nov 7) announced a 20% increase in half year profits to €544m. Revenues rose 24% to €2.7bn, traffic grew 12% and ave. fares increased 13%. Unit costs rose 13% due mainly to longer sectors and a 37% increase in fuel costs. Excluding fuel, sector length adjusted unit costs did not increase at all.

News | Interactive Investor (http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?code=cotn:RYA.L&display=news&it=le)

fr-

[anna_list]

Passengers up 12%
37% rise in fuel costs
First half profit after tax up from € 451.9 M to € 543.5 M
Traffic over the winter to fall by 4%, as previously stated. 10% decline expected in November.
Full year profit guidance raised from € 400 M to € 440 M, in other words, they expect to lose € 100 M over the winter (compared to a loss of about € 50 M last year).



http://www.ryanair.com/doc/investor/2012/q2_2012_doc.pdf

@FR- sorry, you beat me!

[FR-]

haha still took me an hour to post, was too busy reading drilling results for my other shares.

This is a really good set of results, and two fingers to the likes of befree.

fr-

[McGoonagall]

Im a little shocked on how unprofessional that reporter was with her attitude towards MOL. I dont understand why you would invite someone on if your going to but in everytime MOL tries to answer a question.

No research, back to the old 'extra charges' issue. If you are going to question MOL in that manner you are going to get verbally beaten up. The amiable Monkey Hanger asking the questions has been floundering in her 'bizniss' role for a few weeks now. Back to the local weather perhaps?

[BigFrank]

It is always entertaining to see MOL on tv. As Ken Dodd and Brucie head for the exit, a replacement has to be found. And Ireland seems to have cornered this market in recent years; on British tv, at least.

But back to the issues....

Yet again we have complaints that "regulators" are falling down on the job, whether at Stanstead (enforced sale of...) or at Dublin ( increased charges...) or at Heathrow (Iberia buys BMI slots...) yet the issue of the failure by the EU to enforce crystal clear rules concerning severe limits on airport subsidies is always passed over in Trappist-like silence by this "greatest of all communicators."

[I]Makes yer fink, in´nit ?

[mickyman]

BigFrank

You really should take time to read more postings on this thread
before you decide to 'contribute' and show everyone that your 'ignorance is bliss' attitude is not a fudge.

MOL has always echoed Cameron with regard to legislation (ie:get rid of red tape - which would enable companies to expand and profit)

Where is Stanstead - is it near Quantas ?

MM

[BigFrank]

Stansted.

Mea culpa !

And what if MOL and David Cameron are of one mind ? Public school boys the world over always stick together, no matter what the Office for Fair Opportunities for Non Public School Boys&Girls might decree !

¿ ...and as for actually enforcing EU subsidy regulations ?

[boyzinblue]

...and the next base will be Modlin if negociations are successful...

[Cyrano]

...and the next base will be Modlin if negociations are successful...

And to judge by how public Ryanair have been in the last couple of weeks about their desire to have Modlin for a base, the airport has not yet agreed to *all* of the Ryanair demands, so Ryanair is trying to mobilise public/political opinion to get their way...

[eu01]

...and the next base will be Modlin if negociations are successful...
Well if, and it's a big IF. As Cyrano says, "the airport has not yet agreed to *all* of the Ryanair demands" but indeed FR is pressing hard.

in other words, they expect to lose € 100 M over the winter (compared to a loss of about € 50 M last year).

I don't intend to be a basher or growler here, but that's an important issue. Still no effective solution for the off-season profitability problem despite parking so many idle aircraft.

[mickyman]

eu01

As has been seen year after year the management of the airline
seem to know what they are doing - contrary to some posters
on here - so dont worry too much about it - I'm sure its in hand.

MM

[eu01]

mickyman

Would you prefer to have a doctor who just readily confirms your excellent health, without paying attention to symptoms that may indicate the need for treatment or at least some examination?

[mickyman]

eu01

..........hypochondria.......ring any bells ?

MM

[eu01]

... or you alleviating the significance of these symptoms?

[clareview]

wish posters could spell or at least use spellcheck - negociations!!!!!!!!

[TimmyW]

Still nothing bookable from DSA for next year. Any news on that?

[Cyrano]

wish posters could spell or at least use spellcheck - negociations!!!!!!!!

I notice over on the Aer Lingus thread someone wrote
the old saying is 40m americans are of irish decent and 60M americans think they are one of them

Not being able to tell the difference between "decent" and "descent"... Don't you wish posters could spell or at least use spellcheck, eh, Clareview? :cool:

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming... ;)

[racedo]

Passengers up 12%
37% rise in fuel costs
First half profit after tax up from € 451.9 M to € 543.5 M
Traffic over the winter to fall by 4%, as previously stated. 10% decline expected in November.
Full year profit guidance raised from € 400 M to € 440 M, in other words, they expect to lose € 100 M over the winter (compared to a loss of about € 50 M last year).



Another good set of results and they beat their full year forecast last year so likely they could do the same again.............

[JWP2010]

Is there any hope? Onboard FR from LBA-DUB Sunday evening, it was a short flight but still 10mins later than scheduled arrival time. And we still got that bloody bugle!

[dionysius]

From todays Daily Mail, I wonder how he can keep a straight face with his latest announcements, he really does know how to wind up the media :

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary plans to screen in-flight pornography | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058851/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-plans-screen-flight-pornography.html)

;):eek:

[Evanelpus]

It will feature one half (MOL) of the biggest pair of tits running an airline.

:rolleyes:

[Jorik]

TimmyW: Not that I know of. First routes from Maastricht for S12 has been loaded last week I believe. For instance AGP and PSA are loaded, while FAO, TFS and OPO aren't. I guess TFS and FAO need to be loaded yet, for Doncaster as well. ALC has been cut from Maastricht, so don't know about that.

[pee]

In-flight pornography? If that's what people are ready to pay for during the flight and if that form of ancillary revenue would lower fares... Absolutely not interested myself, but don't know what people might think. Or is it just the next publicity stunt of MOL?

Concerning all these aircraft standing during the winter season. I'd try something new. Like creating "low season connecting hubs" for every small airport in the FR network. During the winter, when the load factors worsen and flight frequencies normally fall, I'd entirely stop connecting the smallest airports with each other. It really doesn't pay. Instead, I'd determine (specify) one FR base for every small non-base airport in Europe and I'd start to transfer all local pax only there. Once in the evening, once in the morning. Say, HHN for Plovdiv, CRL for LPP, NRN for Småland, STN for Haugesund, BGY for Brno and so on. Selling these pax connecting flights to other major cities: Madrid, Paris, Rome. With so many "spare" aircraft it could work. And that way only for winter, during the summer schedules returning to operate just the core business, point-to-point.

Just some thoughts of mine...

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

In order to keep costs to an absolute minimum, perhaps MOL should star in these adult films himself. Just think ... no wages to pay, no licensing fees. Perhaps some of the local politicians who subsidise RYR services could agree to star alongside him as part of their 'support package' ... what could possibly go wrong?

[eu01]

A comment found on the net: How can you plan in-flight pornography reducing at the same time the amount of toilets on the plane? :p:oh:

[vytgri]

@EU01 - jack-off paper bags for €5 will do the job ;))

[mickyman]

pee

'Or is it just the next publicity stunt of MOL?'

Might have turned a corner there with your understanding of MOL.....?

'Just some thoughts of mine...' er yeah just keep'em to yourself in

future - thanks.

MM

[eu01]

Let's go back to business. Isn't the Turin (Torino) base more likely now than ever before? I'd bet it is...

[Cyrano]

pee

'Just some thoughts of mine...' er yeah just keep'em to yourself in

future - thanks.

MM

I for one would much prefer to read and discuss reasonable alternative ideas for deploying the aircraft rather than wade through puerile Ryanair-is-great-no-it-isn't-yes-it-is argy-bargy. Feel free to skip the network suggestion posts if you don't like them, but don't assume that everyone else feels the same way.

[racedo]

I for one would much prefer to read and discuss reasonable alternative ideas for deploying the aircraft rather than wade through puerile Ryanair-is-great-no-it-isn't-yes-it-is argy-bargy. Feel free to skip the network suggestion posts if you don't like them, but don't assume that everyone else feels the same way.

Tis a fair comment.....

In the old days the movement of aircraft out of season was the start of the Aircraft leasing business but not sure it is as applicable these days.

[mickyman]

'Concerning all these aircraft standing during the winter season. I'd try something new. Like creating "low season connecting hubs" for every small airport in the FR network. During the winter, when the load factors worsen and flight frequencies normally fall, I'd entirely stop connecting the smallest airports with each other. It really doesn't pay.'

Ryanair have a tried and tested formula/mode of operations which has been a success for many years - perhaps they realise the limits during
the winter months of this business model and are flexible enough to
store aircraft for a while.Perhaps they just know what they are doing?

pee - sorry I was a bit too rude initially.

MM

[Jorik]

Is there somebody with news over the restart of some of the Eindhoven routes? The Eindhoven - Oslo (Rygge) route was stopped without any announcement. The rumour was that it would return last april (2011). A friend of mine was told the same by one of the Rygge ground crew.

Besides that, in Oct 2006 Ryanair started Eindhoven - Glasgow (Prestwick), but that stopped as well. So, Eindhoven Airport hasn't got a route to the UK besides London. Scotland is very popular with Dutch old people and I like to see it myself as well. So, any chance for routes to Scotland? Prestwick or Edinburgh.

Thanks in advance :)

[pee]

First quoting mickyman:
Ryanair have a tried and tested formula/mode of operations which has been a success for many years (...) Perhaps they just know what they are doing?
Then quoting others:

Everything can be improved. (C. W. Barron)

When a man is no longer anxious to do better than well, he is done for. (Benjamin Haydon)

He who stops being better stops being good. (Oliver Cromwell)

One of the best uses of your time is to increase your competence in your key result areas. (Brian Tracy)

Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow. (Ronald E. Osborn)

To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often. (Winston Churchill)

Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there. (Will Rogers)

The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement. (unknown)
My own thoughts I'll try to keep to myself, promise. ;)

[Sober Lark]

Don't worry Pee. He is looking into steam generator units for in-flight saunas for their Scandinavian customers. The in-flight trolley service is to sell back brushes, sand timers, buckets, dippers and whisks. I kid you not this is from a reliable source and remember where you heard it first.

[RAT 5]

Some years ago various European charter airlines had arrangements with non-EU airlines to sub-lase a/c to them, even with crews. Those airlines had winter peaks in their schedules. It might have been only for a couple of months, e.g. Caribbean over Christmas and school holidays from USA & Canada. There might be some S.Hemisphere operators, S.America or S.Africa, even India, China or Indonesia that need a help out. Has RYR even considered these possibilities. However, no crew or engineers to send as chaperones might stifle the plan.

[AMS flyer]

Is there somebody with news over the restart of some of the Eindhoven routes? The Eindhoven - Oslo (Rygge) route was stopped without any announcement. The rumour was that it would return last april (2011). A friend of mine was told the same by one of the Rygge ground crew.

Besides that, in Oct 2006 Ryanair started Eindhoven - Glasgow (Prestwick), but that stopped as well. So, Eindhoven Airport hasn't got a route to the UK besides London. Scotland is very popular with Dutch old people and I like to see it myself as well. So, any chance for routes to Scotland? Prestwick or Edinburgh.

Thanks in advance

As far as I know the EIN-RYG and EIN-PIK route were terminated because of low load factors. Maybe in the future EIN-EDI will come up??

[CCFAIRPORT]

Eindhoven to Bristol has been closed as well due to low load factors

[andrew1968]

Bristol to Eindhoven been gone for a long, long time!

[Jippie]

The growth from EIN is especially in the (sun) holiday markets. But who knows, the STN frequency did go from 12x to 16x weekly :-)
The summer slots will be released somewhere next week so we should know more then!

[JohnnyPharm]

I always thought doing special Champions League/Europa League point-to point flights with the grounded aircraft would have made sense. FR has aircraft in (or close to) virtually every major city in europe, and would have made an ideal revenue stream through out the winter. On second thoughts probably more effective to ground the plane for the full winter than flying them once a fortnight.

[james170969]

AMS Flyer - EIN PIK never actually got off the ground. Ryanair cancelled the route long before the first flight was due to take off.

[pee]

Next Ryanair's destination in Finland will be Turku. Flights from CRL and STN will start end March, in Summer probably also Barcelona (BCN?) and Malaga.

[FR-]

Will it be sold as Turku or Helsinki West?

fr-

[MARKEYD]

Looks like Ryanair have cut Bournemouth s only daily flight next summer to popular Alicante to just 4 flights now , always had high load factors but i am guessing it must be to do with the dispute about air bridges ?

At the moment Gerona remains at 5 flights a week but with Vuelling about to announce services next summer to Barcelona from Southampton i wonder how long that will remain at

Any more news on the possible Malta service being re started from Bournemouth as well ?

[TimmyW]

Rumours that Ryanair won't operate from Doncaster next year also, leaving DSA with a handfull of flights per day.

[Stewart28]

Does anyone know if Tenerife to Londonderry will be operating next summer it is still showing in the route map but it is not bookable.

[pee]

Will it be sold as Turku or Helsinki West?
Well, not as Helsinki. It's 2 hrs by train, 170 km. The only airport close enough to HEL to be considered is Tallinn (Estonia), 86km South, with excellent ferry connections.

Turku (Swedish Åbo) is a mid-size old town, former capital city of Finland. For tourist flying there, good opportunity to visit both Finland and Sweden. E.g. STN - TKU, night ferry to Stockholm (VERY cheap tickets usually available), wherefrom NYO - STN back home.

[Jorik]

According to a Dutch Finland-fan website flights to Turku will start in April. To Brussels (Charleroi) and one of the London-airport (Luton or Stansted). It's not been comfirmed that it will be Stansted yet. Indeed Malaga and Barcelona for the summer. Exp. passengers set at 100.000.

[WJ888]

STN it is.

Ryanair announces new route from London Stansted to Turku

10th November 2011

Ryanair has announced a new route from London Stansted to Turku in Finland from April 2012.

Ryanair celebrated this new route to Finland, which goes on sale tomorrow, by releasing 1 million £9.99 seats for travel across its European network in December and January which are available for booking on ryanair.com until midnight on Thursday November 17.

Ryanair’s Maria Macken said: “Ryanair is pleased to announce a new route from London Stansted to Turku on Finland’s south-west coast which will operate three times weekly from April. Ryanair’s London Stansted consumers now have a choice of three routes to Finland (Tampere, Lappeenranta & Turku) [---> not correct, currently no flights between STN and LPP], allowing them to beat the recession by choosing Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares and no fuel surcharges.

“To celebrate our new route from London Stansted, Ryanair is releasing 1million £9.99 seats for travel across Europe in December and January. Since these seats will be snapped up fast we urge passengers to book immediately on ryanair.com.

“Fares on the new route from London Stansted to Turku will start from just £37.99 for travel in April and May and are available to book on ryanair.com before midnight on Friday 18 November.”

[Bagmanlgw]

With the new owners of Gatwick out to attract new airlines and routes for their investment

Are there any plans for next summer for Ryanair to expand into new markets from Gatwick ?

Would be nice to see a base created at Gatwick with maybe a couple of aircraft to start with

Any body have any information into any future plans

Bagmanlgw

[Jorik]

All routes now confirmed, check out Ryanair.com (route map)
- London-Stansted
- Brussels (Charleroi)
- Barcelona (Girona)
- Malaga

[Jamie2k9]

As it stands 14 routes being dropped with questions over another 4 -6. Most routes that operate will see a reduction. Things could change but thats how its looking now.