Ryanair - 8 [Archive] - Page 3

RAT 5

8th Feb 2011, 22:19

DjerbDevil: Now that's going to be an interesting bull fight. RYR claim that pax agreed to T's & C's when they booked their ticket. Andalucia will claim that RYR agreed to the local T's & C's when they operate out of their airports. Horse & cart or chicken & egg? Will Andalucia police this or will it expect a pax to complain first? Either way the feathers will fly. Is it enough for RYR to throw toys out of pram, or are those airports too big a prize to give up? I suspect the latter. No doubt RYR will be camped on the steps of the high court in Brussels. Will the matador blink first? If the bull turns tail it will have ramificiations throughout the whole EU. It's not just a storm in a small tea-cup. It could be the thin end of a big wedge for other seemingly trivial items. Anyone know why Andalucia has taken up this cause?

racedo

8th Feb 2011, 22:30

FR will simply say no boarding pass, no boarding.

Nothing to do with them if someones forgets ticket.

eu01

9th Feb 2011, 04:01

I certainly prefer MOL fighting with... well, taxes, fees, politicians ("morons"), airports, other carriers, but do not like him fighting with trains. It resembles me Don Quixote and his windmills, sorry. TheAVE high-speed train will travel from Valencia to central Madrid in just 90 minutes.(...)

So called route planning strategy is seemingly not the the strongest point of FR. Possibly they didn't even bother to analyze the regional infrastructure development plans.... :hmm: (...)

There is NO NEED to try blindly and with no expertise what happen if we start this or that arbitrary, what for? It can result in selling tickets for six or twelve months for just a few euros, reducing frequencies, losing money without any logical reason. Right, Ryanair is strong enough to afford it, but there is simply no need for it. Carrying out some research, not expensive indeed, could be in fact another form of SAVING real money.
Cited above is my opinion posted here in November 2010 after FR decided to compete with trains on Valencia - Madrid route, with 3 daily flights in both directions. Guess what? The route will end in March. Reiterating: "carrying out some research..."

RAT 5

9th Feb 2011, 10:06

I remember reading in the French press a couple of years ago RYR trumpeting their intention to compete with the TGV Beauvais-MRS. The claim was it would 1/2 the price and that the pax capture area was the whole of France north of Paris, not just Paris. Did it ever happen and what was the outcome?

pee

9th Feb 2011, 10:20

Some new route announcements are coming today.
From what I can see from the Northern side of Europe ;) at least this one will be (has been?) announced:
Stockholm NYO - Kaunas (2,4,6) from April 14th.

Seljuk22

9th Feb 2011, 10:44

ALC getting a new route to Brno and frequencies will be increased to STN, LBA, MAN and PMI
Ryanair abre una nueva ruta con Brno y aumenta sus frecuencias con Reino Unido. europapress.es (http://www.europapress.es/comunitat-valenciana/noticia-ryanair-abre-nueva-ruta-brno-aumenta-frecuencias-reino-unido-20110209120251.html)

Telstar

9th Feb 2011, 10:44

Cited above is my opinion posted here in November 2010 after FR decided to compete with trains on Valencia - Madrid route, with 3 daily flights in both directions. Guess what? The route will end in March. Reiterating: "carrying out some research..."

eu01

Then on the other hand CIA-BGY is, the last time I looked, the 2nd most profitable route in the whole company, and they compete against the high speed train and trains in theory in this route with 4 flights a day. I think FR have admitted sometimes they just try a route completely randomly and it sometimes is a flop and sometimes is a great surprise.

Where are the next bases or bulk of expansion going to be? Lot's of aircraft coming in the next year.

Stewart28

9th Feb 2011, 10:57

Any new routes for Derry Airport

pee

9th Feb 2011, 12:21

CIA-BGY is, the last time I looked, the 2nd most profitable route in the whole company, and they compete against the high speed train and trains in theory in this route with 4 flights a day. I think FR have admitted sometimes they just try a route completely randomly and it sometimes is a flop and sometimes is a great surprise.

Where are the next bases or bulk of expansion going to be? Lot's of aircraft coming in the next year.
I've checked the travel time from Bergamo to Rome by train, it's 4 hours 30 min.
From Valencia to Madrid with AVE it's 1 hour 38 minutes.
Quite a significant difference. (my own small research ;))

There is at least one EU country where many domestic routes could prove a success. Poland. Last year I've travelled from Tampere to Gdansk (Wizzair) and then continued by train. Oh dear! The shortest travel time from Gdansk to Wroclaw was over 7 hours :ooh: and back from Wroclaw to Warsaw 5½ hours. That's where a couple of bases should be created (should have been already). Next year they organize the European Football Championship there.

PS. And of course at least one base in Finland :ok:

Telstar

9th Feb 2011, 12:50

Pee

Thats the conventional train, there is a high speed option from Milan 02hrs:45mins, which is not Bergamo I know but it's where the passengers are coming from so it could be argued it's even easier for them to take the train:

Railway Gazette: Italian north-south high speed line completed (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/italian-north-south-high-speed-line-completed.html)

DjerbaDevil

9th Feb 2011, 13:56

FR will simply say no boarding pass, no boarding.
Nothing to do with them if someones forgets ticket.

According to the Spanish Judge there is a European Law, an International Law and a Spanish Law that state that an airline is obliged to provide FREE ticket and embarkation documents for their passengers.
So any action by FR going against the passengers lawful rights would increase their liabilities to the passengers and draw further actions and fines from the authorities and consumer protection agencies against the airline.
Andalusia has probably taken a lead from the Barcelona judgement and this will probably be followed by Valencia (Alicante) and Madrid.
It will be up to FR to get some ruling in the European Courts but this seems unlikely.

Jamie2k9

9th Feb 2011, 18:36

CIA-BGY is, the last time I looked, the 2nd most profitable route in the whole company,

Its not the 2 most profitable route but it's in the top 6.

NorthernCounties

9th Feb 2011, 19:21

Any new routes for Derry Airport

Sadly not yet. Fingers crossed though, the year is still young... I'm expecting passenger numbers to be up on last year for January. I think Flybe is who we should be waiting for too Stewart.

jpta2000

10th Feb 2011, 06:06

New route announced by FR in the Maltese media yesterday to PIK.

timesofmalta.com - Ryanair launches Malta - Glasgow route (http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110209/local/ryanair-launches-malta-glasgow-route)

This brings the additional routes over last summer to 2, with the gain of EIN and BHX and the loss of BOH.

CelticRambler

10th Feb 2011, 07:53

There's no TGV through Beauvais, closest is "Haute-Picardie" on the Brussels-Lille-Paris line. If that's what was being referred to, RA is introducing Lille-MRS six days/wk from 14th April at prices that certainly compete with the TGV (which, incidentally, is gradually having it's state subventions eroded)

barrymah

10th Feb 2011, 08:11

Well, until they pulled out Jan 11, they were. The TGV has so many deals it is hard to say they were half price. A lot of people I know from Northern Paris used the. I think it is to be reinstated.

Jamie2k9

10th Feb 2011, 10:37

Ryanair Delivers Online Lesson to Belgian Students (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-delivers-online-lesson-to-belgian-students)

eu01

10th Feb 2011, 18:15

Germany’s highest court says low airport fees for Ryanair may breach EU competition rules, Deutsche Welle (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14834865,00.html) reports. Lufthansa and Air Berlin want the budget airline to repay millions of euros in what they claim are illegal subsidies.

Lufthansa and Air Berlin claim that Irish budget airline Ryanair is using its dominant position at small, regional airports to force them to cut their fees. They argue that this gives Ryanair an unfair competitive advantage. The two airlines want the Dublin-based company to be forced to pay back millions of euros in what they claim are essentially illegal subsidies.

On Thursday, the Federal Court of Justice in Karlsruhe overturned judgements by the relevant regional and appeals courts, and ruled that the low fees may indeed amount to subsidies in breach of EU competition rules. This is being seen by observers as an indication that Lufthansa and Air Berlin now have a good chance of winning.

Ryanair argues that is has neither sought subsidies nor received any. It said that Lufthansa and Air Berlin should lower their ticket prices and not waste money on expensive lawsuits.

“If these expensive airlines don't want to pay exorbitant fees to expensive airports that are already taking on more traffic than they can handle, than they too are free to fly to Frankfurt-Hahn Airport or Hamburg-Lübeck Airport, like we do,” said Ryanair.

Lufthansa is optimistic it will win its claim. “We expect that it will become more difficult for Ryanair and smaller airports to profit from illegal subsidies and distort competition in the air travel industry,” a statement said.

“We consider the court's decision to be a success,” said a spokeswoman for Air Berlin.

Seljuk22

12th Feb 2011, 13:05

FR in talks with AENA to open a base at PMI with 3 a/c from end of March
Ryanair negocia con AENA abrir en marzo una base permanente en Son Sant Joan » Local » Noticias » Ultima Hora Mallorca (http://ultimahora.es/mallorca/noticia/noticias/local/ryanair-negocia-con-aena-abrir-en-marzo-una-base-permanente-en-son-sant-joan.html)

eu01

12th Feb 2011, 15:22

negotiating with AENA to open a permanent base at Palma airport by the end of March.
To open a base on such a short notice? It would be extremely short indeed even when it relates to Ryanair.:hmm:

racedo

12th Feb 2011, 16:28

To open a base on such a short notice? It would be extremely short indeed even when it relates to Ryanair.

It may not have been FR that has been doing the courting here as no doubt the airport authorities see what is likely to happen in the summer.

DjerbaDevil

12th Feb 2011, 18:58

Looks as if the FR idea is to copy the Air Berlin hub system at PMI with flights from other Spanish airports to feed into PMI and then on to German and possibly English cities ......

eu01

12th Feb 2011, 20:38

Looks as if the FR idea is to copy the Air Berlin hub system at PMI with flights from other Spanish airports to feed into PMI and then on to German and possibly English cities.No, I don't think so. Ryanair never did anything at all to facilitate transfers from one flight to another, unfortunately. Long ago I've lost my faith to see Ryanair starting connecting flights, they prefer rather selling cheap tickets and flying with unsatisfactory load factors on some routes while the connecting flights could do very much to improve the profitability.

In some cases just better thought schedules could do the trick without any official connecting flights, as FR don't bother to sell them. Say, on Mo and Wed morning from Northern A-airport to a centrally located B-airport and in the evening from there to the Southern European C-airport. Then on Tu, Thu the same flights, but originating in the morning in C, arriving to A in the evening. Totally unofficially, with no hazard to the carrier, without a common ticket. Many pax would decide to make such a combination at their own risk. But no, the present schedules are (on purpose?) constructed as if to prevent people from doing so. Losing many potential pax... why?

INKJET

13th Feb 2011, 08:23

The Super complaint launched by Which will if upheld have a massive impact on all budget airlines, for those that haven't seen the press basically Which are saying that charging Credit and debit card fee's per person per sector is plain wrong and does not reflect the airlines cost of proccesing credit card.

MOL second in charge ( MOL wannabe) defended the charge saying that it also reflected the costs of the website search engine and IT support!! What utter bollocks that's like paying for clothes at Marks and Spencer and getting hit for a credit card charge or each item to pay for the shop window FFS!!

In some strange Irish logic they would sell the shirt for £1:99 but you'd still end up paying £22:00

At long last consumer protection is catching up with the budget airlines and not before time, I have posted on Ryanair thread because by and large they are the worse and the others tend to follow where Ryanair tread, it is now a requirement to show the ticket price including taxes and airport charges at the first point of sale. No doubt the usual suspect will be on in minutes supporting FR action and pointing out that things are free with Electron, that will be the next investigation or part of the CC issue, the issue here is what's in it for FR?

If you manage to persuade a million people to put £200 on an Electron card that pays no interest you have £200 million on which you pay no interest, that would by a few boeings, not that there is any link of course.

EI-BUD

13th Feb 2011, 08:34

INKJET; I have to say that I completely agree with. The 'credit card charges' are in no way a reflection of the actual charges that the airline incurs when they accept credit cards as method of payment.

A company like Ryanair on most cards excl Amex(which they wont accept) would incur a very small percentage in fees owing to their scale and clout, I would guesstimate 1.2%-1.5% tops.

I'm all for a level playing field and more transparency will lead airlines like Ryanair to publish a fare that reflects the complete cost of carrying a passenger from A to B, and not just Ryanair but any airline for that matter.

Yes and there are a few who will dive in and give the reasons and the Ryanair position to death. It's irrelevant whether they allow Electron (previously) or Prepaid mastercard now as no fee route. These card providers charge a fee too to Ryanair and allowing 1 card with no fee effectively allows Ryanair to say the charges are actually optional, which is such a fudge.

I have prepaid mastercard which i load up when i think I will want to fly Ryanair, and it takes a few days to transfer funds from my bank account online, so its all not worth the hassle. I try not to use them these days as much as possible.
EI-BUD

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 08:50

If you manage to persuade a million people to put £200 on an Electron card that pays no interest you have £200 million on which you pay no interest, that would by a few boeings, not that there is any link of course.

Aside from FACT that FR haven't accepted as a free card for well over a year and secondly IF you have an Electron card that is with a BANK where you can spend the money where you like.

But please do tell how an airline gets a benefit from someone in Germany having an electron card with a German bank and who has have never flown Ryanair..........this should be interesting.

Facelookbovvered

13th Feb 2011, 09:27

Little surprise that you pop up to defend the indefensible

Ryanair method of operation is past its zenith, the market is no longer growing, other have reduce their bloated cost base and customer retention will play a growing part in future.

Why a safe profitable company needs to behave in this way is beyond me:cool:

daz211

13th Feb 2011, 09:51

If RyanAir and others are forced to scrap the CC charge (which I have no problem with) because I use a INSTANT bank transfer to my pre-payed master card which takes seconds to transfer money. RyanAir could simply stop the CC charge and start charging a seat charge £10 per seat £20 per exit row, this will not cover the total amount lost throught the CC charge but will cover a large amount of the lost money. I understand that the free seating rule that RyanAir use is to get people to the gate way before the Aircraft gets to the gate but this in itself may help with making more money as more people may miss the flight and would have to pay for a new flight if they are not at the gate on time.
We all need to remember that all Airlines are there to make money.

davidjohnson6

13th Feb 2011, 10:47

If we assume 70 million people were paying 5 euros per head, that comes to 350 million euros per year. Yes, that allows 2.7 million sectors in 2010 to have been paid for from a fee-free payment method.

Yes, an "exit row seating" charge might bring in some revenue, but it's not going to be enough to cover all that money from card charges.

Anyone want to come up with other credible wheezes as to how FR might replace this income ? Will we see a return of the "Dream up charges as to how we can abuse you, and win a cash prize" competition ?

daz211

13th Feb 2011, 11:04

Im not saying just and exit row seat charge im saying £10 per seat and £20 per Exit seat. or the could just add a fuel payment to the ticket price.

davidjohnson6

13th Feb 2011, 11:23

daz - any sort of surcharges are a possibility (I'm sure some PR bod can find a way to get round the previous 'Ryanair will never have fuel surcharges' claim)

However, the charges need to be "optional" or at least sufficiently optional that the airline can claim they can be avoided without ending up in court on the grounds of false advertising

Possible ideas include
1 - Surcharge for hand luggage above a certain size. Thus allow people to take a *very* small personal bag weighing up to (e.g.) 1 kg, and charge above this. Of course, the hand lugage charge has to be smaller than for checking luggage into the hold.
2 - Happy hour - an additional charge which is lifted only at certain times of the day. Thus, if you want to book at 8 pm, you pay extra. If you're prepared to book at 4 am, it's cheaper
3 - Something like Spirit's "convenience fee". If you go to an office at the airport to make a booking and wait in a long line, there is no fee. If you want to pay online, there is a fee. Given that many FR airports are in out of the way places, the cost and hassle of going out to the airport usually outweighs the fee.

Ian Brooks

13th Feb 2011, 12:17

Bet most womens handbags weigh over 1KG lol!

Ian B

egnxema

13th Feb 2011, 12:19

This is all so funny to read!

Why the need to create all these hidden fees with clauses which are very clearly extra revenue to the airline.

What was ever wrong with the thing called the FARE, which covered the necesary.

People talk about business models maturing etc - but at the same time surely the general public are maturing or "wising up" to the fact that flying from London to Dublin costs more than 9.99. While one or two may have flown for this price, by only taking one pair of underpants in a see through plastic bag and paying by the nominated card that banks issue to 16 year olds, it does not mean that is what the ACTUAL seat/cost/sector is. Someone, somewhere ends up covering the ACTUAL cost.

I for one full support airlines charging a fair fare, and only charging extra for the truly optional extras.

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 14:00

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 14:02

I for one full support airlines charging a fair fare, and only charging extra for the truly optional extras.Oh you mean like BA adding on more Fuel surcharges.

Hollymead

13th Feb 2011, 15:21

I have prepaid mastercard which i load up when i think I will want to fly Ryanair, and it takes a few days to transfer funds from my bank account online, so its all not worth the hassle.

I'd get yourself a better card , mine transfers instantly .

jdcg

13th Feb 2011, 18:05

My understanding was that with BA the fuel surcharge is already included in the quoted price on their website.
I think most passngers now know that when they book with a cheap airline they'll have to run the gauntlet of add-on fees for baggage, insurance etc if they so wish. But what's really annoying is to go through all that and then find that you are charged way over the odds for paying by credit card and especially debit card. Even worse with Ryanair is that you pay per passenger, not per transaction, which is just completely dishonest in my view. Also, to theoretically charge you for online check-in is just insolent. Those charges pop-up when you're booking straightaway so why bother getting people's backs up - just include it in the initial price. It's been a pain in the neck having to sort out an Electron card and then a Mastercard prepaid, but they're not that difficult to sort out. If they just charged a fair price for a normal card I would use that every time, even if FR made, say, 50p profit per transaction on it anyway. The reality is though that they want to make more profit from it and so we all end up feeling abused and the likes of "Which" get involved.

RAT 5

13th Feb 2011, 18:08

I've seem a few TV interviews with MOL. He has 2 mantras, which he quoted incessantly. 1. RYR has the lowest ticket price. 2. RYR has no fuel surcharge. When asked why RYR had increased its add-ons by between 350-600% in the passed 6 years he repeated the above mantras. He claimed that everything was an optional extra. When asked about the airport check-in fee on the internet as being mandatory he claimed that it was not a surprise as the pax was made aware of it befoe buying. It didn't answer the question as to why it was not included in the ticket price. The same with the 'insurance & wheel chair levy'. They should be plain & simple. If the lowest ticket price is the holy grail then these extras will remain. What pax do not seem to understand that the 'fare' might not always be the cheapest option. Often I find that a major carrier is similar priced, considering a realistic baggage load, and often at more convenient times. I'm amazed at the prices ez & FR charge nearer the date or as the a/c fills up. I also amazed at the last booking pax are paying these prices. The majors are often cheaper in the same circumstances. Surely the LoCo's will need to change. The competition is hotting up.

OliWW

13th Feb 2011, 18:11

Ryanair are considering PMI, but its for a June launch, not March... they are talking to AENA, but they are having issues securing slots from Brussels

daz211

13th Feb 2011, 18:25

Dont make me laugh "the majors" you dont get more major than Ryanair !

How many new routes do your so called majors announce every few months ?
How fast have your so called majors grown in the last ten years ?
How many new A/C orders have your so called majors bought in the last few years ?
How many new bases has your so called majors opened in the last few years ?
the list could go on and on.

And while you are talking about how the lowest fare my not be with Ryanair I think you will find that your so called majors have had to stop charging silly money for a 2 hr flight to Europe and thats all down to Ryanair ... your welcome

PhilW1981

13th Feb 2011, 19:19

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 19:35

Simple fact - were it not for exhorbitant card fees Ryanair would've made zero profit last year. In effect they made £400 Million from reselling 50 pence credit card charges for £5, the actual running of aircraft was of secondary concern.

Simple fact dealt with in previously qtrly presentations that approx 60% of their passengers do not pay Credit card fees.

PhilW1981

13th Feb 2011, 19:55

daz211

13th Feb 2011, 20:01

Ryanair, with added optional charges are still cheaper than other Airlines MAJOR or not I have taken 100's of flights and never found a cheaper price than the price I payed with Ryanair (FACT).

Also what other Airline offers there passengers cheap flights and removes the tax from the final price ond dont say this is only on afew flights or seats because I have never payed tax on any of my Ryanair flights (FACT).

gcuk

13th Feb 2011, 20:12

Ryanair is a business and will, like any other business, seek to generate sufficient revenue to exceed costs. Credit cards fees are simply revenue. If you don't want to pay the £5 fee, get a prepaid Mastercard. It's not difficult, some are available for free and I refill mine instantly via the issuers website. I'm quite happy that others can't be bothered. Them paying the card fees means I pay lower airfares. This week I flew to Bremen and back for £3 each way. I'm not complaining.

FR-

13th Feb 2011, 20:16

Some of you have no real undertanding of a business, if ryanair drop the card fee, the base price will increase, simples. And ryanair will still be much cheaper than the likes of easyJet, BA, LH, IB and the rest . . . .

fr-

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 20:21

OK, so the PR people put a nice spin on it on a technicality. Are you telling me that 60% of bookings are made with a pre paid mastercard (am I allowed to roll around the floor with laughter at this point) or are the PR people ignoring DEBIT card charges to put a positive spin on things?

What technicality ?

You are aware that providing false information in annual accounts gets a company hammered by a stock exchange.

The figures were given for time when Electron was in use and as Irish customers had difficultly accessing these then figures will have gone up since.

PhilW1981

13th Feb 2011, 20:52

pee

13th Feb 2011, 20:58

Are you telling me that 60% of bookings are made with a pre paid mastercardThis is something I do not believe either.

The figures were given for time when Electron was in useCould be true.

the figures have gone up sinceThe figures must have gone down, I'm sure.

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 21:01

So your statement that "60 % of passengers don't pay cc fees" was inaccurate then, or rather at best it was out of date, so back to the point I was making, Ryanair made £400 Million last year from reselling CC charges without which their profitability as a business would have been zero. Electron hasn't been FOC for 12 months or so.

Note, before I am jumped on by yet another O'Leary worshipper, at no point have I actually criticised them for this, they make their money through somewhat sharp business practice that penalises the less savvy traveller. I don't have a huge problem with that as it allows those who do have some knowledge to access cheaper fares.

That said I really don't see why they can't simply absorb the CC fee and online check in fee into their base price, they'd still be the cheapest (in most cases) and customers wouldn't constantly feel like their being cheated.Dear oh dear

Electron was not available in Ireland and with in excess of 7 million passengers carried from Ireland then clearly many people were paying the charges with no option to avoid.

Now with prepaid mastercard being more widely available the 30% figure of people avoiding paying is likely to have risen. (The 60% number is incorrect
it should read 30% in 2009)

As for making £400 Million well that would mean they had 80 million passengers which was not the case, nobody had availed of avoid the charges, again not the case so aside from another anti FR whinge what exactly is your point ?

If you dislike them you have the option of using someone else.

pee

13th Feb 2011, 21:10

If you dislike them you have the option of using someone else.
Some do like them, but are able to understand why FR tend to be so repellent for others. Suggesting the need to change a few things is like the expertise given for free ;) - just a pity that nobody listens.

PhilW1981

13th Feb 2011, 21:59

Some do like them, but are able to understand why FR tend to be so repellent for others. Suggesting the need to change a few things is like the expertise given for free http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif - just a pity that nobody listens. In one, I find them quite handy for short european trips and am wise enough to know how to ensure I don't get stung by their charges, others are not so and are put off as they don't want to take their chances.

The FR fanboys are hilarious.

And just for redress, Electron is far more common in the UK than pre paid mastercard and FR carry far more from the UK than EIRE.

EI-BUD

13th Feb 2011, 22:00

racedo I have to hand it to you, your unwavering defence all things Ryanair is impressive, whether good or bad! If MOL is tuned in all I can say is whatever you pay this guy (Or gal not sure what he is!)it's not enough!!

EI-BUD

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 22:18

racedo

13th Feb 2011, 22:22

And just for redress, Electron is far more common in the UK than pre paid mastercard and FR carry far more from the UK than EIRE.

Electron is not widely available and aside from Halifax every other major bank has abandoned it and replaced it with a debit card.

As for prepaid Mastercard
Compare prepaid cards | Apply for a prepaid card ? moneysupermarket.com (http://www.moneysupermarket.com/prepaidcards/?p=0&ef_id=65pNJiPYBQAAAHU:20110213232150:s)

This kinda gives an idea as to availability.

canberra97

13th Feb 2011, 22:45

I agree with you totally I always fly with Ryanair where I can fly with with no Tax added, have flown 100s of Ryanair flights as well and to destinations the majors dont fly which I find very interesting and it has taken me to destinations I would never had thought going to if it were not for Ryanair!

Although on major trunk routes such as Barcelona, Venice, etc I do prefer to fly BA.

pee

16th Feb 2011, 09:17

Now it looks like: "Bye, bye Girona". Despedida!Ryanair today confirmed the cancellation of its five-year extension agreement at Barcelona Girona Airport, which was originally announced in December 2010, saying the new Catalan government has refused to honour its agreement with the airline

"In December 2010 Ryanair and the Government of Catalonia reached agreement on a five year extension of its base operation at Girona Airport under which Ryanair agreed to base 11 aircraft at Girona, operate 64 routes and deliver 4m passengers p.a. which would sustain up to 4,000 jobs in and around Girona Airport," Ryanair said.

"However, the new government has refused to honour the agreement despite being consulted on it by the outgoing government."

Ryanair is to reduce its operations from the airport by five aircraft, close 18 (of 64) routes and reduce frequencies on 17 other routes, the airline said.

The move will result in the loss of over 100 weekly flights, which will see Ryanair’s Girona traffic fall from 4m to 2.3m per annum, which it said will cause the loss of up to 1,700 local jobs

"Ryanair will now switch these five aircraft to lower cost airports elsewhere in Europe," the airline said.

"It is a remarkable achievement by the new government to have caused such job and tourism losses within weeks of taking office," said spokesman Michael Cawley.

"However, while this is a significant loss for Girona, Ryanair will continue to grow at other lower cost airports in Spain and elsewhere in Europe.”

So when the cancellations are due to begin? :rolleyes:

boyzinblue

16th Feb 2011, 09:33

Imagine that. The local government not honouring an agreement. Great that Ryanair always honour agreements eg. Shannon etc.

Stevek

16th Feb 2011, 10:15

They'll need to free up a few aircraft for the expansion at Dublin.;)

INKJET

16th Feb 2011, 11:39

Never mind there plenty of room to park them up at Boeing Field East AKA EMA & BHX

wOW 1700 hundred jobs with maths like that are there enough people on the planet to work to support Ryanairs growth plans

horatio_b

16th Feb 2011, 11:42

I flew on the FR556 from DUB-MAN last Saturday evening and there were, at most, 50 pax on board.

Considering that this is one of their longest standing routes, it is probably becoming increasing difficult for them to find routes suitable for a 189 seat aircraft.

Jippie

16th Feb 2011, 12:20

GRO will be reduced from the beginning of the summer season as far I understood.
No surprise really, with the rise of BCN this was bound to happen, they were just waiting for an excuse.

Noxegon

16th Feb 2011, 12:55

Shed-on-a-Pole

16th Feb 2011, 13:01

horatio b

The loading you report is a poor one but it is not typical of the DUB-MAN route as a whole. By Saturday evening, most people traveling for the weekend have already reached the location they wish to visit, but have yet to commence their return journey. Saturday teatime is also an unlikely choice for business travelers.

As it happens, that particular day also saw the Manchester United v Manchester City premiership 'derby' match with a lunchtime kick off. This is a very popular event amongst soccer fans from Ireland. I suspect (although I do not have the supporting data) that RYR and EIN will have enjoyed healthy demand with good yield on the morning eastbounds and evening westbound flights that day. In fact, I suspect that they would be well satisfied generally with traffic between Dublin and Manchester last weekend, as Rugby Union fans were in the mix too. As an aside, additional charter flights operated from Ireland / Scotland for the United v City match. Operators were CityJet, Aer Arann, Eastern Airways and Loganair.

Taking the big picture, as opposed to an off-peak snapshot, DUB-MAN has proved a particularly successful route for Ryanair.

Regards. SHED.

Cyrano

16th Feb 2011, 14:26

I'm not sure I agree with that. If they were really going to axe Girona, then why would they have announced a five year deal just eight weeks ago?

Ryanair Agrees 5 Year Extension of its Barcelona Girona Base (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-agrees-5-year-extension-of-its-barcelona-girona-base)

Not everyone flying to that part of the world is going to Barcelona. I''d have thought GRO could easily hold is own.

Details of the Girona routes being cancelled are here. (http://www.anna.aero/2011/02/16/ryanair-pulls-five-aircraft-from-girona-as-government-deal-falls-through/) As well as the likes of Gatwick, the list includes destinations like Kristianstad which have not even launched yet!

eu01

16th Feb 2011, 19:08

Some destinations are likely to disappear from Ryanair route map. Most recently Granada city has refused to pay Ryanair the incentives to restart several routes cancelled in recent years. The future of last two existing connections seems very uncertain now.

The French city Pau said it was ending the subsidies to maintain flights there because Ryanair's demands were "intolerable" and amounted to blackmail. Ryanair had asked Pau to hike its subsidies to 1.5 million euros a year if it wants to maintain flights to Britain, Belgium and Paris. The chamber of commerce in Pau has informed Ryanair of its decision "not to pay another penny in fees," said the chamber official today.

Meanwhile, the former Yugoslavian Republic of Montenegro could be getting some low cost flights in an apparent shift in government policy. Last year, the Montenegrin Government claimed that too many incentives would have to be given. The government is now singing a different tune. It now says that it will commence negotiations with 3 low cost airlines, among them Ryanair. The flights would operate on a scheduled basis.

CARNMANORLAD

16th Feb 2011, 22:45

Good news for Derry, RYR have added double rotations to STN on mon & fri from April. FAO is 3x weekly during july & aug. ALC is back 2x weekly for july & aug. Things are looking good for LDY and it seems that MO'L is finally showing interest in Derry!

thebig C

17th Feb 2011, 13:56

I wonder does anybody know if Ryanair have finalised their orders for C919s or MS21s yet?!:) hahaha!

NorthernCounties

17th Feb 2011, 14:18

I think it's getting more and more apparrent that Ryanair need different sized aircrafts. There's only so much expansion that can go on with the 737-800 in Europe. They need something like the new C-Series or E175/95 to fuel expansion in the Nordic Region, out of Irelands regional airports and flights both starting and terminating in Eastern Europe.

I won't hold my breath though.

pee

17th Feb 2011, 15:20

I think it's getting more and more apparrent that Ryanair need different sized aircrafts. There's only so much expansion that can go on with the 737-800 in Europe. Ryanair is in need of differentiating, true. But it's not about the aircraft size. It's a question of providing more options for flying, much more versatile options.
They need something like the new C-Series or E175/95 to fuel expansion in the Nordic Region
No, no. If they fly to places like Lappeenranta, they have to re-think the entire issue. Flying out of LPP just to Charleroi and Weeze is by far too monotonous. To get pax more excited about these destinations, FR has to create the option of connecting flights. Having the DAILY flights somewhere, e.g. to CRL, alternately morning and evening flights, would give pax an opportunity of making connections. Further to any city in Spain, Italy, Portugal. Just two morning flights a week with no return in the evening give no chance to travel anywhere but... well, to Charleroi and the city of Brussels. That's it. That's the problem. Any small airport will provide loads of pax if THEY, the passengers, can make their choice where to fly. No need to reduce the size of aircraft.

Think different, for God's sake! :*

NorthernCounties

17th Feb 2011, 15:48

Well I've flown to Tampere and Ryanair are operating quite a good range of destinations from there. But what I meant about the smaller aircrafts was that they were needed for inter-scandnavian flights, or between Finland and Estonia.

LDY had waited for ages to get a double daily flight to STN reinstated and only just got the double flights needed on Monday and Fridays from April. The likes of regional airports in Ireland such as LDY need a smaller aircraft to serve BRS, EDI or MAN.

LPN could definately avail of a smaller aircraft to give bargain flights to Gothenberg, Malmo, Stockholm, Tallinn, Oslo and Riga.

I remember one of my finnish friends saying finnish people only like to fly Finnair, but I remember when the days when irish people said they only liked to fly Aer Lingus. If RYR and EZY continue to make a credible attempt, finnish people will soon enjoy the cheap flights to lots of european destinations which other europeans have taken for granted over the past decade.

eu01

17th Feb 2011, 19:53

In order to be fair and objective, while pondering the support for Ryanair one has to put some facts and numbers into context.

Today heraldo.es (http://www.heraldo.es/noticias/detalle/pyrenair_recibido_millones_dga_cuatro_anos_para_000_viajeros .html) has published the data related to public support received by some airlines flying to the Aragon community in Northern Spain.
Well, the marketing support to Ryanair, that carried over 370,000 passengers in 2010, amounted to 3 million euros. Hence, for one traveller brought to the region by FR the local taxpayer had to pay 8.1 euros.
In comparison, Air Nostrum transported 58,784 pax and got almost 2.5 million euros, it equals to 41.8 €/pax.
The most expensive proved Pyrenair. Since 2007, the local government has spent 2.75 millions through agreements to promote tourism as the direct aid to Pyrenair, to carry some 19,000 passengers. It means, every traveler on a plane of Pyrenair has costed the Government of Aragon 144 euros on average.

It seems the support for Ryanair isn't so very expensive, after all.

NorthernCounties

17th Feb 2011, 19:59

daz211

17th Feb 2011, 20:17

What are you trying to say ? I hope I have the wrong end of the stick :mad:.

racedo

17th Feb 2011, 20:18

Very interesting EU! I do wonder though, especially when comparing the Ryanair Passenger and the Air Norstrum passenger; what the average salary of each would be, and what do they both spend in the local economy. Air Norstrum might be worth the extra money!

Maybe BUT even assumming 50% of passengers required accommodation just who would the tourism authorities prefer ? Who would those who have restaurants and coffee shops prefer ?

NorthernCounties

17th Feb 2011, 20:55

What are you trying to say ? I hope I have the wrong end of the stick .

Don't worry Daz... I'm not looking to offend, I'm a very frequent flyer on Ryanair. I mean are some Air Norstrum visitors business related. Help industry etc, and perhaps they are overly rich and have a result have a crazy disposable income!

MUFC_fan

18th Feb 2011, 08:53

DAA Reject Ryanair Offer Of 4m Traffic Growth (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/daa-reject-ryanair-offer-of-4m-traffic-growth)

If this man wasn't so good at running an airline, Satchi & Satchi would pay him big bucks to do what he does best.

compton3bravo

18th Feb 2011, 10:27

Or to put it another way, MOL has not got his own way again - seems to be happening quite a bit more these days.

looot

18th Feb 2011, 10:43

Ryanair rejects DAA's €60m discount offer - Irish, Business - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-rejects-daas-euro60m-discount-offer-2546375.html)

Noxegon

18th Feb 2011, 11:17

Always two sides to every story...

Latest News > Ryanair Rejects ?60M DAA Incentive Offer (http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/11-02-17/Ryanair_Rejects_€60M_DAA_Incentive_Offer.aspx)

eastern wiseguy

18th Feb 2011, 11:19

At what stage do the airports/regional governments/local councils decide that the amount in subsidies is outweighed by the cost conscious pax NOT contributing to the local economy in the way that was originally expected?

What is the Ryanair fallback position?

Is the business model built on the continual quest for subsidies?

Is the whole thing a "house of cards?"

Before I get jumped on by the regulars ,it is a genuine query that has been running through my mind watching the withdrawal of (seemingly good loads out of BHD)

MUFC_fan

18th Feb 2011, 11:58

At what stage do the airports/regional governments/local councils decide that the amount in subsidies is outweighed by the cost conscious pax NOT contributing to the local economy in the way that was originally expected?

I'm guessing it all depends on the airline's demographics. A charter airline usually attracts passengers willing to spend money in the airports while low cost is often perceived to attract more stringent passengers.

Having said this, Dublin is a massive destination for stag, hen and long weekends and Ryanair has played a big part in that. The Euro hasn't in recent times however.

Before I get jumped on by the regulars ,it is a genuine query that has been running through my mind watching the withdrawal of (seemingly good loads out of BHD)

Ryanair operates a low cost base (as in their costs are low, not...well you know what I mean) and that can only happen when they take advantage of economies of scale. Ryanair believed that the airport was to extend the runway and make other provisions meaning the flights could operate at maximum capacity (189 seats) and reach continental destinations.

There are only so many destinations that can be served within a far reduced range on an aircraft not able to use PAX capacity to it's limit.

So even if they sold 162 seats (I think that was the maximum capacity?) then the aircraft is still only flying a 86% of it's full potential. That would be fine over short distances to airports such as LPL and PIK but their costs are unit costs are higher because only one aircraft is paying for all the base costs as opposed to say 5-6 aircraft which I believe they would be up to by now had their plans come to fruition.

Hope this helps! :)

Seljuk22

18th Feb 2011, 18:08

Telstar

18th Feb 2011, 18:59

After FR cuts Girona new flights from Seville (Santander, Ancona, Bordeaux, Skavsta and Ibiza) and a 3rd a/c for this base were announced.

New routes from PMI to FMM and BGY and from Almeria to CRL were also announced.

I'm not doubting you but I couldn't find that information elsewhere what is your source? When is the extra aircraft for Seville?

Seljuk22

18th Feb 2011, 19:32

Local press. New aircrafts in SVQ and BGY will arrive in May (when GRO goes down).

Seville: Ryanair operará este verano cuatro vuelos semanales entre Santander y Sevilla - Qué.es (http://www.que.es/cantabria/201102171430-ryanair-operara-este-verano-cuatro-epi.html)

BGY gets also 2 additional a/c with 4 new routes (ACE, PMI, SKG and Plovdiv). Frequencies on existing routes will also be increased (+21/7).
Ryanair, quattro nuove rotte da Orio: Lanzarote, Palma, Plovdiv e Salonicco - Bergamo città - L'Eco di Bergamo (http://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/Bergamo%20citt%C3%A0/186554_ryanair_quattro_nuove_rotte_da_orio_lanzarote_palma_p lovdiv_e_salonicco/)

Facelookbovvered

18th Feb 2011, 20:12

Ryanair walked away because they know they can't deliver the pax numbers, they know that the days of pulling the wool over airport companies on legal loop holes are at an end and have to move into new markets where there are mugs yet to be had, give them another two years MOL will be gone and a more customer focused product will be in place and FR and Racedo will be off the pay roll

FR-

18th Feb 2011, 21:39

yes facelook your off the payroll aswell, but you went a few months ago . . . And how can you comment on people customer service skills? tit

frfly

19th Feb 2011, 06:48

EDI is a dark horse in the FR network as it gets another A/C this spring, which hasn't been announced but just added as the schedule has increased.

AGP/ALC will go 8 weekly (AGP 2xFR, ALC 2xSU)
PMI will go 7 weekly (2xSU) (reintroduced route)
NRN goes to 5 weekly
TRF goes to 4 weekly
TFS goes to 4 weekly
MLA goes to 3 weekly
BTS goes to 3 weekly

Re-added routes to BLL, BOD, MRS, PMI and PSA.

New routes added for the winter continue; FUE, BCN and TLL.

New 'W' pattern for EDI A/C EDI-BVA-TRN-BVA-EDI.

Some cut backs aswell, mainly in Germany in comparison to last summer.

Will be interesting how the sale of GLA will effect FR expansion at EDI. FR seem to have a very good relationship with the SNP government, and if more powers we're to be devolved including APD rights, maybe Scotland cause see more expansion in the coming years.

daz211

19th Feb 2011, 09:28

I see today 19th feb Ryanair have two departures from STN to LPA one in the morning and one in the afternoon, is this a one off or a regular double departure ?

OltonPete

19th Feb 2011, 09:45

daz211

No doubt half-term extras, which certainly from BHX they have never done before at this time of year.

BHX had an extra LPA last night using the new LPA based aircraft and this just operates for two Fridays and the same again tonight but from the new Tenerife base.

Last Christmas was the first year BHX received extra flights and with so many aircraft sitting around in winter I am surprised it took them so long.

I am still kicking myself as the original fare on the LPA was a bargain even after all the add-ons - he who hesitates................

Pete

daz211

19th Feb 2011, 10:08

Arr yer its half term, but again extra flights must mean demand is high, I wonder how Ryanair moving more into the holiday market is hurting the charter Airlines.

I do think that Ryanair could fill even more flights to TFS, LPA, ACE, FUE, IBZ, PMI, SKG AND RHO if only they would run a news paper or TV ad campain, you would be shocked to how many peope dont no that Ryanair even fly to many of the above destinations.

NorthernCounties

19th Feb 2011, 10:23

Daz, I think Ryanair usually argues that the Airports themselves should fund such adverts. I know that if I was in Airport Management, I would want to keep relations strong, however difficult it may be as really can deliver the passenger volumes.

We've complained or at least grumbled on the LDY thread that the airport hasn't done any announcement about the reintroduction of Alicante, (which was moaned about so much when people thought it was cancelled in the local press.) And no word about an extra rotation to Faro and the two extra rotations to Stansted.

How's an airport to grow in a recession if there's no word about good things such as route announcements. :*

Edit -

Regarding Ryanair rejecting the offer from DAA, why doesn't DAA offer it to Aer Lingus instead? We do have a national airline after all! :rolleyes:

daz211

19th Feb 2011, 10:31

I agree and dont get me started ... just take a look at BAA stansted website under NEW ROUTES ! its discusting the lack of new route infomation.:ugh:.
Nothing about BABY or the new Ryanair routes to Greece.

TSR2

19th Feb 2011, 10:54

I wonder how Ryanair moving more into the holiday market is hurting the charter Airlines.

EZY, LS and ZB have been hurting the charter airlines for years so FR is only bound to add to their misery.

An equally valid question is, I wonder how much FR moving more into the holiday market will hurt EZY, LS and ZB.

eu01

19th Feb 2011, 11:25

Not a very good news from Italy. The president of the Lazio Region, Renata Polverini has confirmed the earlier decision to close the Ciampino airport "in a short time". The airport in Viterbo will become the only option for lcc's in Lazio, Polverini says. As we know, FR has been a main opponent of Viterbo. This airfield is located pretty far from Rome, and indeed, its upgrade is only in the planning phase so far.

davidjohnson6

19th Feb 2011, 11:45

How much authority do Polverini and Mateoli have over this, what does ADR want, and how long can FR keep operations at Ciampino by appealing through the Italian (and possibly EU) courts ?

eu01

19th Feb 2011, 12:38

Polverini is a politician. Certainly she wants to calm all these noisy opponents of noise near Ciampino. However, if the owners of your favourite market in town just decide to close it... whatever the reason is... what can you do? Will you start a lawsuit against them?

Wozik

20th Feb 2011, 16:23

WTF, I must say... accordingly to Lithuanian press (http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/pinigai/geronomika/wizz-air-konkurencijos-issigandes-ryanair-savo-baze-steigs-ir-vilniuje-129-138567), tomorrow is the day when Ryanair is announcing the Vilnius base to compete with Wizz Air.

Right now FR has a two-plane + an hangar base 100 km away from VNO - at KUN.

The linked article speculates that FR is going to directly compete and fly to the same destinations as Wizz (http://wizzair.com/flights/Vilnius/).

RAT 5

20th Feb 2011, 16:36

eu01

20th Feb 2011, 16:40

Ryanair has been very reluctant to create its bases in Central-Eastern Europe. And indeed I've heard the rumours about the second base in CE Europe to be announced possibly as early as next week. So, where this new base would be located, I started to analyze. In Poland perhaps, with a substantial traffic for so many years? Or could it be Bratislava, so well located as the capital city of Slovakia with neighbouring Vienna as a parallel target?

Well, if this rumour about Vilnius is true, I'll be truly amazed.

Or simply WTF, as you put it. Competing just to compete?

But let's wait and see. There in Lithuania (with its 3 million population) they have also an airport in Palanga nearby, could it be the third base to come? :}

racedo

20th Feb 2011, 16:52

Back to an earlier question with no answers, but this point raises it again. I heard from a Wizz air pilot that the main investor in RYR & Wizz are the same. Thus there is an unofficial agreement of not treading on toes. Speculation abounds as to what will happen when Wizz go to the stock market. Will RYR take a majority stake and merge the two? Will they leave well alone and reap profit? If that is all true it begs the question of this now declared direct competition. Any insiders from either party with some facts?

Some investors are the same BUT not all and those the same are not majority shareholders which is key.

Any agreement not to compete would be called a Cartel, not only is it illegal BUT you get a nice cell as a result plus a huge fine and EU goes through your company like a dose of the 5hits.

Its easily argued they don't compete but you could argue just the same with Easyjet and others.

In relation to if Wizz ever floats well if FR decided to take a stake it would have to be an arms length transaction and would get crawled over.

Just because you own shares in Company A and Company B unless you personally get a major benefit from company A why would you give them your shares.

In addition IF FR decided to buy shares in Wizz post float, the shareholding by joint investors could get lumped in with the FR holding and both parties could get accused of acting as a concert party which could get tricky.

It is a complex area BUT given how much money the Texans pay in legal advice I think you can pretty much guarantee that the holdings are viewed and looked at separately and any instructions re competition aren't going to happen.

CARNMANORLAD

20th Feb 2011, 17:20

I wonder will the announcement regarding LDY happen at the press conference tomoro? Hope so!

Charlie Roy

20th Feb 2011, 21:40

I wonder will the announcement regarding LDY happen at the press conference tomoro? "the announcement" - someone started a rumour that LDY was due more announcements following the Alicante news. But as far as I'm aware, it's just a rumour. No more announcements due for LDY.

NorthernCounties

20th Feb 2011, 22:08

Quote:
I wonder will the announcement regarding LDY happen at the press conference tomoro?
"the announcement" - soemone started a rumour that LDY was due more announcements following the Alicante news. But as far as I'm aware, it's just a rumour. No more announcements due for LDY.

I've been following the threads progression and two seperate people with thinks with Ryanair have verified it, and seem to both know the route... one has suggested that there are early discussions around two further routes. Someone did speculate a BE announcement but I haven't seen any substance to that anywhere. But hey... lets hope Feb 21st is a date to remember for LDY! :}

CARNMANORLAD

20th Feb 2011, 22:24

I honestly think some people dont want LDY to get more routes and almost have a grudge against the place!:{

Im gona put this to rest and let the route slip, the announment may or may not be tomoro but TENERIFE SOUTH will become an LDY route for summer 2011!

NorthernCounties

21st Feb 2011, 07:44

That's great news Carnmanor, another route for LDY. God knows the region could really benefit from the 1000 jobs this will create in the area, or is it 2000? I can never remember the formula RYR use.....

I think it'll actually solve all unemployment in Ireland and systematically sort out our economy and banks... or so MOL would have you believe! :ok:

Great news! Thanks for finally letting it slip! I've got my eyes on Ryanair's website for any breaking news or booking form update! :8

BALLSOUT

21st Feb 2011, 10:33

LDY-TSF I doubt it, the runway at LDY is very restrictive, without doing the sums I would guess that you could probably manage about 50 pax plus min fuel to TSF out of LDY, that is unless they have extended the runway since I was last there!

jpthomas72

21st Feb 2011, 10:36

Wozik, you've linked the wrong article from 15min.lt, it's this one here:
Google Translate (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=lt&tl=en&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/pinigai/geronomika/wizz-air-konkurencijos-issigandes-ryanair-savo-baze-steigs-ir-vilniuje-129-138567&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgNX9CqovunQM0znxI9E6ewqvddCg)I could see why there are some advantages having some flights from VNO in addition to KUN, as Vilnius is the main tourist destination in LT. KUN is more convenient though for many people from LT, esp the West. Demand for GB-LT is high enough to sustain both Wizzair and Ryanair, I mean look at flight prices e.g. for Easter. There are examples of unofficial friendly coexistence like EZY LTN/LGW-SXF and FR STN-SXF. Service-wise, Wizz feels more like EZY. Can't really see FR leaving KUN completely.
Let's see. Our experience in BHX and also MAN is that FR come and go, then again come and go. E.g. they'll probably announce VNO-SXF, then cancel it after 6 months. But please FR, don't go for VNO-DSA, instead please EMA-VNO and keep BHX-KUN :).
Oh, unconfirmed news just in ! It's only London and Dublin, not more. So no worries yet, Wizzair folks.
Google Translate (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=lt&tl=en&u=http://www.lrytas.lt/-12982790481296424087-ryanair-i%25C5%25A1-vilniaus-skris-%25C4%25AF-dublin%25C4%2585-ir-london%25C4%2585.htm&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhi63d6NbCwJ7DcO507Kp-QqrcExJA)

johnref

21st Feb 2011, 10:37

@Ballsout - When were you last in LDY - the long awaited extension is complete and the run way is just shy of 2000m (1967m I believe) and is supposed to be capable of full B737 or equiv. Ops. I do stand open to correction though on range of aircraft.

ericlday

21st Feb 2011, 11:29

Ballsout.........TSF Venice or TFS Tenerife South ?

jpthomas72

21st Feb 2011, 13:42

... though this is a renowned newspaper, so there is some truth in the Story. Dublin, London (not said which one, probably STN), Milan (BGY, I reckon), Barcelona (BCN ?), Rome (CIA, I reckon).
Google Translate (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=lt&tl=en&u=http://www.lrytas.lt/-12982790481296424087-ryanair-i%25C5%25A1-vilniaus-skris-%25C4%25AF-dublin%25C4%2585-london%25C4%2585-milan%25C4%2585-barselon%25C4%2585-ir-rom%25C4%2585.htm&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhj2PIindkBd9-Mk6_JqlsM9s9xRFQ)Impact on Wizzair can only be judged after the schedules are more visible (e.g. usability for weekend trips). Starting May according to this source. I think there is enough of a market there, VNO has some big holes in its destination map. No German routes, while KUN has some. AirBaltic must be annoyed, but they haven't treated VNO well in the past years.

pee

21st Feb 2011, 13:53

Well, in the Irish Examiner you can find it as well... must be official then?Ryanair today announced its first five routes from the Lithuanian capital Vilnius, to Barcelona (Girona), Dublin, London (Stansted), Milan (Bergamo) and Rome (Ciampino) from May onwards.

Ryanair’s Barcelona (Girona) and Milan (Bergamo) routes will transfer from Kaunas to make way for Ryanair’s first Greek routes from Kaunas to Rhodes and Kos which were announced recently.

jpthomas72

21st Feb 2011, 14:16

... but Kaunas will stay their main base and keep STN and DUB. Good. About VNO frequencies, from what I can see in an article on delphi.lt:
STN: Daily, DUB, BGY and CIA: 3 pw, GRO: 2pw
Source:
?Ryanair? skraidys ir i? Vilniaus, Kaunas dr?sinasi, kad nenukent?s (http://verslas.delfi.lt/automoto/ryanair-skraidys-ir-is-vilniaus-kaunas-drasinasi-kad-nenukentes.d?id=42264261)The odd thing in all this is that UK and Spanish economies are struggling, Germany doing very well and on 1st May finally lifting all EU workers restrictions also for LT people. But FR still bets on UK and Spain. Let's see. E.g. LH had a third rotation planned for VNO-FRA, and knowing them, they might still set it up. 4U unfortunately has mostly retreated from Eastern Europe.

Seljuk22

21st Feb 2011, 15:56

Vilnius airport says:
Airport news (http://www.vno.lt/en/news/airport-news/detail.php?id=17767)

BALLSOUT

21st Feb 2011, 15:59

NorthernCounties

21st Feb 2011, 16:02

Vilnius airport says:
Airport news (http://www.vno.lt/en/news/airport-news/detail.php?id=17767)

I love Ryanair's arrogance in the article...

Ryanair is the worlds favourite airline

Really? Haha! I use them a lot... but not due to brand loyalty... only for price. :E

Telstar

21st Feb 2011, 16:17

John, Yea, it's been a while but I doubt if 2000 mtrs is enough to guarentee a full load, I will have to have a look at the LDY Perf. the last time i was in there we were restricted to 135 pax, and that was just for a short flight.
Only needed about three tons of fuel, and at a guess you would need about fifteen for TFS.

The 135 pax figure was in my mond too but looking at the latest Airfield briefing and RTOW figures for LDY there is no longer a pax restriction mentioned and looking at RWY 08 figures, ISA day, nil wind back of a fag packet calcs say you can lift about seventy two and a bit tonnes. Block fuel is around 12 tonnes from Dublin last time I looked so even with a full load it should be just about possible.

eu01

21st Feb 2011, 16:23

UK and Spanish economies are struggling, Germany doing very well and on 1st May finally lifting all EU workers restrictions also for LT people. But FR still bets on UK and Spain.
At least something left for Wizz Air. Let's note however that Wizz also do not sell any German routes from VNO so far.

NorthernCounties

21st Feb 2011, 16:27

I think this is to do with Ryanair~German relations at the moment. They're making their point. I'm sure Ryanair will make an attempt again with Germany in the future. They always return like the prodical son! :rolleyes:

airhumberside

21st Feb 2011, 21:38

Why all the concern for Wizz Air? They aren't pushovers and are no strangers to competing with FR. Doubt they will be happy with the announcement, but I doubt they are fearing for their future in Vilnius

jpthomas72

22nd Feb 2011, 08:58

I doubt they are fearing for their future in Vilnius But you forget the VNO curse ;-)
STN flight times now out, bookable. Well chosen. STN-VNO 16:50-21:25, VNO-STN 21:50-22:30, daily, starting 1st May. STN-based plane then.
If anybody at FR is reading this: Note the name of the city is 'Vilnius'. During the booking process, FR's website says 'Vilniaus' with the extra 'a', but this means 'of Vilnius' or 'from Vilnius'. So saying 'Stansted-Vilniaus' is somehow like saying 'Dublin-Mancunian'. See what I mean.

NorthernCounties

22nd Feb 2011, 09:23

TFS on the booking engine from Derry now... schedule still to appear though. ;)

Stewart28

22nd Feb 2011, 12:16

What has happened to TFS - LDY was on the booking system this morning now it is gone, can anyone explain

pee

22nd Feb 2011, 12:46

There are chances to get first ever private low-cost terminal in the territory of Finland. So far Finavia Civil Aviation Administration did its best to delay any development in the field of low-cost flying, now it has to do something with the issue as it even harder to continue with its constant excuses. In a few month an investor in Lappeenranta might succeed in refurbishing an old hangar as a basic low-cost terminal aimed at travellers from St. Petersburg, Russia.

http://yle.fi/ecepic/archive/00386/halpalentoterminaal_386041b.jpg ... very basic indeed.

The postulated adaptation of the existing terminal in LPP is pointless as Finavia-monopoly, its owner, has been completely unwilling to accomplish anything new anywhere in lo-co area and generally excludes any possibility of price differentiation for its services at Finnish airports.

Wellington Bomber

22nd Feb 2011, 14:16

nice greenhouse, where do they grow the tomatoes

pee

24th Feb 2011, 11:25

Lappeenranta? No way.

The Finnish state monopoly hardliners say Finavia could abandon the airport if Ryanair terminal is built. Just published English-language news (http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/02/finavia_could_leave_lappeenranta_if_ryanair_terminal_is_buil t_2387749.html) says:
Finnish Civil Aviation Authority Finavia is considering withdrawing from Lappeenranta airport if Ryanair carries out its plan to set up a private low-cost terminal there. The current number of passengers is not enough to justify two terminals, according to Finavia's head of airport operations Reijo Tasanen.
It’s currently laid down in law that Finavia maintains Finland’s airport infrastructure. Finavia says that its network of 25 airports all over Finland allows them to service planes at airports that would not otherwise be economically viable.

This model would be threatened by a new, private terminal for low-cost airlines. Finavia already has two terminals in Tampere and Turku, where one of the terminals is dedicated to low-cost airlines. Tasanen says that the number of passengers using Lappeenranta would have to treble from its current level of 60,000 before Finavia would build a new low-cost terminal there.

If permission is granted to build the new terminal, it could begin operations in June. The land on which the Lappeenranta International Airport Ltd has applied for permission to build the new terminal is actually owned by Finavia, and was rented to the city council in order to improve airport activities seven years ago.

“We can’t rent our land to competing operators,” says Reijo Tasanen.Fearing the competition on what used to be an unused airport! Simply unbelievable - all that is happening within the EU member state!

befree

24th Feb 2011, 13:22

The outlook for oil prices is uncertain with some projecting it will rise to $220/barrel. FR will clearly drop sectors as the fuel price goes up. It hedges around 90% of what it uses a year ahead. If we get very steep rises it could pull more than 10% of its flights and sell the hedged fuel on to others at a short term profit. After a year an oil price of over $200/barrel will kill off much of FRs traffic and drive europe into a big downturn. The nightmare for FR is if the revolts spread.

FR-

24th Feb 2011, 14:04

davidjohnson6

24th Feb 2011, 16:14

FR - what's to say that after the credit crunch in 2008, the global economy is now (slowly) recovering. In addition, China and India have seen their economies grow significantly in the last 24 months.
This of course means that China and India have a much higher demand for oil, and the rest of the world is now returning to the level of energy demand similiar to maybe 2006

Oil supply (measured in millions of barrel pumped out per day) has not increased significantly.

The only obvious conclusion, is that the invisible hand of capitalism allocates a higher price to a barrel of crude, and the more elastic consumers (e.g leisure based) find the cost of transport sometimes costing more than they are prepared to pay - i.e. leisure airline passengers find they can make do with staying nearer to home compared to flying

Yes, the blow up in Libya has had a short term effect, but the underlying growing world demand for energy is still driving up the price

FR-

24th Feb 2011, 16:26

But no one long term is expecting $200, if so my shares in rrr.lse would be worth alot more. These gains will be short term then level back down to about $80.
The earlier civil uprising in Tunisia and Egypt saw crude price rise around 20 percent, from US$80 to US$100 a barrel, but now as the revolutionary movement crosses into Libya - and threatens to spread further into more volatile, and oil-rich, parts of the Middle East - the rally has accelerated significantly. Might I add with the new higher prices we will see new oil fields now being cost effective like puntland.
The biggest fear is that the ‘unrest contagion’ could spread to the world's largest oil producing nation Saudi Arabi – where Al Saud, or the House of Saud, has ruled since the kingdom was founded in the nineteen-thirties.
Saudi Arabia is the world’s largest oil exporting nation and it has the largest oil reserve with around 19 percent of the world’s total reserves. So often the region’s politics and the oil industry go hand-in-hand, particularly as threatened and embattled leaders leverage the remaining piece of collateral they hold over Western nations. Yesterday’s reports of Gaddafi’s order - which went unanswered - to blow up the country’s oil and gas infrastructure has echoes of Iraq’s burning oilfields in the days leading up to Desert Storm. So I fail to see how oil will go much above $140 in the short term.
And OPEC spare capacity will also likely be drawn down to 2.1 million barrels a day.
fr-

eu01

24th Feb 2011, 16:43

But no one long term is expecting $200I'll try to remember to return here next year. I hope YOU are right.

FR-

24th Feb 2011, 16:50

Yeh maybe we should return to all the derampers on here, doom and gloom bunch :E

derelicte

24th Feb 2011, 17:36

For aviation, oil prices and supply are the elephant in the room aren't they?

Plenty of peeps (geologists, not economists) think they we just may have already gone over peak production. It will take an awful lot of sunflower oil to fill up one of those 737s.

Any ideas what plan B will look like will be read with great interest.

WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia cannot pump enough oil to keep a lid on prices | Business | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/08/saudi-oil-reserves-overstated-wikileaks)

underfish

24th Feb 2011, 20:48

Finnish Civil Aviation Authority Finavia is considering withdrawing from Lappeenranta airport if Ryanair carries out its plan to set up a private low-cost terminal there. The current number of passengers is not enough to justify two terminals, according to Finavia's head of airport operations Reijo Tasanen.
It’s currently laid down in law that Finavia maintains Finland’s airport infrastructure. Finavia says that its network of 25 airports all over Finland allows them to service planes at airports that would not otherwise be economically viable.

This model would be threatened by a new, private terminal for low-cost airlines. Finavia already has two terminals in Tampere and Turku, where one of the terminals is dedicated to low-cost airlines. Tasanen says that the number of passengers using Lappeenranta would have to treble from its current level of 60,000 before Finavia would build a new low-cost terminal there.

If permission is granted to build the new terminal, it could begin operations in June. The land on which the Lappeenranta International Airport Ltd has applied for permission to build the new terminal is actually owned by Finavia, and was rented to the city council in order to improve airport activities seven years ago.

“We can’t rent our land to competing operators,” says Reijo Tasanen.
Very interesting. Concerning 180 000 p.a., for Ryanair it is just 3 in/out operations per day with LF~85%, not very hard to achieve even in current year.

befree

25th Feb 2011, 06:33

Who is talking about $200? Befree do you not thing the high cost of oil will actually help in the long run, fr has the lowest cost base. It will be the smaller higher cost airline that will go under. Plus this high is a short term rise.

fr-

FT Alphaville Nomura’s $220-a-barrel crisis oil call (http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/02/23/496331/nomuras-220-a-barrel-crisis-oil-call/)

FR low base cost only works with low fuel prices and punters who fly in the dead periods. Adding 15 euros to the ticket price will kill off demand at a time when they have even more planes to fill. FR has also done well from high selling prices for 737s. If world airtravel srinks 20% it will be hard to sell 2nd hand planes.

pee

25th Feb 2011, 06:56

Very interesting.
Yes, interesting. In fact, the similar situation takes place in Tampere. The most ugly terminal in Europe, TMP-Pirkkala Two needs acutely some very basic investment to keep it going. Finavia was able to invest 150 millions Euro to support AY's needs in Vantaa and built a new terminal there with no hesitation at all. The cost of a most basic investment in Tampere low-cost would be not more than € 3,3 million. Finavia didn't find the money, no way. Then the city of Tampere with the help of the State has expressed its readiness to provide the sum required. But no, before Finavia gives the green light, the traffic should go up 50%. Yeah, it's however virtually impossible to add more traffic with the present very limited capacity of the terminal in question. And the stalemate situation continues.

Actually, Finavia could easily be re-branded as the National Agency for Protection of Domestic Carrier, it looks more and more that way.

Generally I don't like Ryanair's quarrelsome and defiant conduct on many occasions, but here we do have a typical situation where some strong arguments against Finavia's impartiality could be found.

FR-

25th Feb 2011, 06:58

Nomura’s commodity analysts, led by Michael Lo, are calling for oil at $220 a barrel, if both Libya and Algeria were to stop oil production. Oil’s currently around $113.
Might I add, Gaddafi’s order - which went unanswered - to blow up the country’s oil and gas infrastructure.
No new government will blow up its biggest income of tax.

Plus we have all seen your endless posts about how ryanair will be out of business next year . . . .

befree

25th Feb 2011, 15:35

I have never said FR will be out of business next year. What I have repeadly said is the FR business model is breaking and they will soon be making a loss.

With FRs massive capital it will take 5-10 years for them to go under if things go wrong for them. They have already run out of growth in the last few months.

by the way I did predict Silverjet going under and Coventry airport going broke.

davidjohnson6

25th Feb 2011, 16:08

I very much suspect that if Ryanair gets to the stage of having to report an annual loss to shareholders using formal accounting standards (none of this pro forma or EBITDA rubbish), MOL will realise he has to do something about it quickly. He is, after all, an accountant. I suspect also that loss making routes can be chopped quickly, and that FR has the capacity to significantly reduce staff numbers if they so wish

The capital cushion means FR will have plenty of time to take action

eu01

25th Feb 2011, 17:01

The capital cushion means FR will have plenty of time to take action.Right. Nevertheless, for years Ryanair has been having plenty of time to make some reformation regardless of the economical environment and a timeframe, just in case. One of these things: to broaden the spectrum of customers. Not forgetting the average penny-pinchers, FR should try to enrich and diversify its offer targeting some other groups as well.

I will not repeat myself about what are the few simple things needed to achieve it.

racedo

25th Feb 2011, 18:00

Plus we have all seen your endless posts about how ryanair will be out of business next year . . .

And last year and the year before

What is funny is the ability of every other airline with higher fares being able to buy Oil at such a low price per tonne..............................oh wait thats not the case so they will have to increase the fuel surcharges even higher.

befree

25th Feb 2011, 18:23

Adding 15 euros to a 150 euro ticket will result in small loss of pax. Adding 15 euros to FRs 45 euro ticket will lead to a massive loss of pax. FR trades on generating demand by low headline fares. It had a low cost base as it could sell on 4-5 year old planes at around the cost it got them. With around 300 planes it is very much hurt by rising fuel prices hiting the other airlines.

It is going to take a lot of years for FR to sink but the whole firm is based on cheap oil and pax with lots of spare cash for a weekend in lubeck!

eu01

25th Feb 2011, 18:31

National Agency for Protection of Domestic Carrier
Not only there. What about Berlusconi's New Alitalia? Is it already profitable or are they still pumping money into that airline?

MidlandDeltic

25th Feb 2011, 18:33

Befree stated :

by the way I did predict Silverjet going under and Coventry airport going broke.

Of which neither prediction required a really strong crystal ball..... :rolleyes:

MD

daz211

25th Feb 2011, 18:54

Can we all just calm down, have a cup of tea and just think a little :ugh:.

Im sure you dont need me to point out that Ryanair will be a long way down the list of Airlines that will go under due to the price of oil, this will mean more passengers and routes for Ryanair.

racedo

25th Feb 2011, 19:00

S78

26th Feb 2011, 08:32

Air Transport News (http://www.airtransportnews.aero/article.pl?mcateg=&id=28488)

befree

26th Feb 2011, 11:22

Im sure you dont need me to point out that Ryanair will be a long way down the list of Airlines that will go under due to the price of oil, this will mean more passengers and routes for Ryanair.

I agree with the first part but not the second. The higher oil price will mean a lot less people travel. This is due to the direct effect and people having less spare cash to fund their 3rd, 4th and 5th trip away each year.

I read spain is dropping its speed limit on motorways to 110kph from 120kph. This save 15% on fuel. I guess FR will do the same and add 5-10 minutes to sector lengths now fuel costs a lot more than staff.

daz211

26th Feb 2011, 12:10

You need to look back over 2009/2010 people we being made jobless, people had alot less money but what happened ?

Yes thats right Ryanair opened upto the Holiday Islands of the Canaries, this in a time when people were being told to think about a UK holiday or a staycation ...

You just need to take a look at the Ryanair route map to see how many flights/destinations are availabe from these now bases to see that people will fly with Ryanair, so if/when other airlines put up fuel/ticket prices people will look for cheaper flights and we all know cheaper flights = Ryanair.

I remember not so long ago you would be looking around £300 for a rtn flight to the Canaires but guess what I can now do it for less than £50 and that is all down to Ryanair the only Airline I know who can adapt quickly to a changing market...

ericlday

26th Feb 2011, 13:06

Just booked a return flight for the two of us TFS - LTN - TFS 19/3 return 24/3 136€ each Total (everything included) I am more than happy with that.....try those dates with Monarch and you will get a surprise !!!!

davidjohnson6

26th Feb 2011, 13:36

Some people seem to be forgetting about what economists call elasticity of demand.

The family flying off for a 4 day half term break to Spain could quite happily make do with driving from their home to a beach for 4 days instead if the air fare looks too high - I doubt most people on this forum over the age of about 25 had many half term trips while they were kids to Mallorca, unless their parents were wealthy or they had family ties.

The large company trying to close a deal that would give a profit of tens of thousands is far less concerned about an air fare costing an extra 100 pounds compared to what they paid 10 years ago. Furthermore, businesses tend to be in the centres of major cities - not really FR's business model at the moment.

In addition, the duty of care placed on employers, and Ryanair's refusal to integrate with business travel agents' systems (no, I'm not talking about the HIgh Street chains) means that apart from niche routes and the risk of being mucked around (explaining to a potential client that Ryanair will put you on the next flight in 3 days time is not remotely plausible) makes companies of 100+ employees wary of Ryanair

Very little business travel will go Ryanair in the next 5 years. Yes, Ryanair could capture some of the market, but it will require substantial investment in systems, customer service and marketing, all of which take time. Easyjet can capture some of this business, but the rest remains with legacy carriers. If oil shoots up, business travel will largely go on - even if some goes to video conferencing.

Private individuals will find a way to keep their bills down. If rising oil prices mean that the weekly supermarket bill goes up, then while the annual family holiday will be preserved, those weekend trips to somewhere 2 hours flight away will get cut.

compton3bravo

26th Feb 2011, 15:33

And where David would you suggest a four day half-term beach break in the UK in February may I ask! Trust me most people will still find a short break in these hard times - plenty of them down in here in Southern Spain at the moment all enjoying the glorious weather in the lows 20s Centigrade!

ericlday

26th Feb 2011, 15:54

C3B.....ditto here in tenerife.

davidjohnson6

26th Feb 2011, 16:11

eric + compton - I agree that there will always be *some* people who can afford a half-term trip with kids to the beach. That number will of course vary based on a number of factors. A short break can always be found somewhere - at the worst case, just take the week off work, and take the kids out each day somewhere locally in half-term. It's very possible to trade down a notch or two - so that a trip to the Canary Islands instead becomes a trip to somewhere a little more modest when flight costs increase. Perhaps that 9 hour flight to the mouse in Florida becomes a train trip to Eurodisney instead ? Still a break, still see the mouse, maybe not as warm, but most definitely cheaper.

Do you by any chance have year-on-year data for the February half-term week showing the change in numbers of visitors to Tenerife from the UK for example ?

Furthermore, most airlines will have bought fuel on the forward market rather than spot. The people on the beach right now will have purchased their flights based on fuel prices from (approx) summer / autumn 2010. Because most airlines tend not to pass on any new fuel charges to those who have already purchased their tickets, there is usually a lag of several months before a spike in the price of a barrel of crude oil affects the number of people observed building sandcastles on a Spanish beach

On a separate note - if you're wandering around the beach in Tenerife, what on earth are you doing posting at PPRuNe ?

ericlday

26th Feb 2011, 16:41

DJ6......sorry no access to figures just observations around Los Cristianos/Playa. No I am not on the beach, not at weekends and kids holidays, too busy and noisy. Prefer the solitude of the sun terrace. Take Care.

clareview

26th Feb 2011, 16:57

Don't agree with your assessment that business trafic does not use Ryanair. I am aware of many firms that do. The lack of flexibility over a so called legacy carrier is well worth the risk - book at £50 instead of £100 and if one in 10 goes wrong is still a good gamble.

Centrefire

26th Feb 2011, 23:51

befree, "Adding 15 euros to a 150 euro ticket will result in small loss of pax. Adding 15 euros to FRs 45 euro ticket will lead to a massive loss of pax."

Adding €15 to a €150 ticket will make the cost €165. Adding €15 to FR's €45 ticket will make this ticket €60.

FR's price is still dirt cheap by comparison.

frfly

27th Feb 2011, 12:19

What Ryanair has done over the past 10 years is reduce their cost base to make it the lowest in Europe. Im afraid to say to those Ryanair haters, it is other airlines that will have more problems with the rise in Oil price.

Ryanair are already changing their business model, and this so far has resulted in moving onto longer sectors, with a higher demand and therefore the ability to push up fares without resulting in loss of passenger numbers. Airlines trying now to compete with Ryanair on these routes ie Canaries etc are the ones who will lose out as they simply dont have a low enough cost base to lower fares to compete.

Ryanair will in turn reduce the number of routes that are loss making (where marketing deals finish) ie in Pau. Routes into airports like this need extremely low fares to generate demand. Ryanair cannot provide this without low landing fees and "marketing support" as it is worded. Capacity will be switched to routes where there will always be demand, ie major cities and bucket and spade routes.

Ryanair have a hefty cash reserve, they have the strongest business model in Europe and unlike other airlines can react very quickly to market conditions. This will in the long term benefit Ryanair as more airlines collapse and pull off routes, leaving them for Ryanair's taking.

Ryanair is changing, slowly but surely as the airline now matures. More will be obvious in the coming years.

TSR2

27th Feb 2011, 12:52

Airlines trying now to compete with Ryanair on these routes ie Canaries etc are the ones who will lose out as they simply dont have a low enough cost base to lower fares to compete.

Let's not forget that there are many people out there who would prefer a better product and who are quite willing to pay a little extra.

wowzz

27th Feb 2011, 13:02

TSR2 - Totally agree with you.
I am fortunate to have the choice of EZY or Ryanair for my trips to the UK. I never even look at the Ryanair prices, as I prefer EZY's level of service [ I know they are not perfect, but who is?]. I also get a bigger baggage allowance, and more hand-luggage allowance.
MOL has gone down the cost route and nothing but the cost. Many of us
prefer the service route.

clareview

27th Feb 2011, 16:06

The issue is that its not a little extra to fly with the opposition, its usually a lot extra.

clareview

27th Feb 2011, 16:08

The 70m + pax that booked FR last year were obviously happy to pay what they paid.

BFS101

27th Feb 2011, 16:41

The 70m + pax that booked FR last year were obviously happy to pay what they paid.
Obviously some people love FR and others not so much. I have used FR in the past and probably will again, if substantially cheaper than the alternative, or the only direct option available.

However this statistic keeps coming up and up, as quoted above. Who says that these 70m + passengers are happy. Many may have no option but to fly FR for convenience. How many are indifferent, or don't particularly like FR but put up with them?? As an example, how many people shop in Aldi or Lidl, as they feel they have no other option, but would prefer M&S or Waitrose. How many Aldi shoppers actually like or enjoy shopping there? People shop in Primark, would they prefer All Saints or Selfridges if all things were equal??

If passengers have an awful experience, they may avoid FR in the future, but that still leaves those who find the product indifferent or poor, but simply tolerate it for convenience / price, or like I mentioned, have no real alternative. The 70m+ happy flyers, I think is a very misleading statistic.

racedo

27th Feb 2011, 17:05

The large company trying to close a deal that would give a profit of tens of thousands is far less concerned about an air fare costing an extra 100 pounds compared to what they paid 10 years ago. Furthermore, businesses tend to be in the centres of major cities - not really FR's business model at the moment.

In addition, the duty of care placed on employers, and Ryanair's refusal to integrate with business travel agents' systems (no, I'm not talking about the HIgh Street chains) means that apart from niche routes and the risk of being mucked around (explaining to a potential client that Ryanair will put you on the next flight in 3 days time is not remotely plausible) makes companies of 100+ employees wary of Ryanair

Not an unreasonable summation but over last 10 years I have come across a surprising amount of people who see it differently.....Head Offices arre in cities manufacturing are generally not.

Not all business is in cities as many areas across europe have manufacturing plants or business where they need people moved around who happily use FR and other low costs.

I came across one company who a mate works for and they have plants across Europe and before they sent senior people once a quarter because that was what they could afford.

Now with lean manufacturing and logistics they move people around weekly whether its quality / technical / production or logistics and he reckons in any one week they have between 20-40 people moving around, sounded a lot but they employ 5,000 across Europe.

Also know 4/5 people who run their own businesses who use LCC's simply because as one put it, £30 return v £400 I just can't afford and even if 1 in 10 goes wrong and he flies 30 times a year I can afford to pay extra on that one time but £12,000 v £1,000 is 2 months revenue to him.

racedo

27th Feb 2011, 17:13

However this statistic keeps coming up and up, as quoted above. Who says that these 70m + passengers are happy. Many may have no option but to fly FR for convenience. How many are indifferent, or don't particularly like FR but put up with them?? As an example, how many people shop in Aldi or Lidl, as they feel they have no other option, but would prefer M&S or Waitrose. How many Aldi shoppers actually like or enjoy shopping there? People shop in Primark, would they prefer All Saints or Selfridges if all things were equal??

If passengers have an awful experience, they may avoid FR in the future, but that still leaves those who find the product indifferent or poor, but simply tolerate it for convenience / price, or like I mentioned, have no real alternative. The 70m+ happy flyers, I think is a very misleading statistic.

BUT you assume that the same doesn't apply to other airlines.....

U2 ....................cancelled flights and not enough crew last summer which has been well documented on here
BA ..................strikes, baggage losses etc etc on a huge scale over last number of years

BFS101

27th Feb 2011, 17:35

BUT you assume that the same doesn't apply to other airlines.....

Oh I totally do... Regardless of airline, no one can say with any certainty that all, or any proportion of the passengers, were completely happy (unless surverying carried out, and even then how representative would that be??).

It just seems one of the main retorts on this thread, when people question or fault FR service, the statistic of 70m + happy passengers is used. It's just a personal opinion, but think that statistic really has no accuracy at all.

FR-

27th Feb 2011, 17:47

When I talk to customers, so many tell me how good ryanair is, its just tossers and the press who go over the top and point out all the bad bits or when things do go wrong.

fr-

BFS101

27th Feb 2011, 18:09

its just tossers and the press who go over the topNice....

And again, anyone could say the same about any airline, with absolutely no degree of accuracy. While customer satisfaction may be hard to accurately judge, and FR do carry a huge amount of passengers, they always seem to fair pretty badly in surveys whether it be Which? or other travel related surverys, from whatever demographic.

But that is really not the point I was making. Simply stating that 70m + passengers use FR annually, does not directly correlate passenger satisfaction, and that can apply to any carrier, or mode of transport.

racedo

27th Feb 2011, 18:17

Nice....

Sadly an element of truth in it.....

BA well known for its "friendly" views for Journo's travelling or the book economy and get upgraded syndrome.

Have met many people who claim X airline is so bad because their cousin's uncle sister flew them or they read in the daily mail about them.

take-off

27th Feb 2011, 19:01

Please tell me where you can book a £50 return flight with Ryanair to the canairies, and i'll book it!!! :mad: Last times i checked that wasn't much in it between the airlines by time taxes and charges are put on. Have flown a couple of times with them, not overly plesant but no means as bad as people make out. Biggest gripe i have with ryanair and with many airlines now , is how much they charge to pay with your debit or credit card, other major gripe is being charged to check in online with my own computer, anyway other than that ryanair provide a service at a cost that many people otherwise wouldnt use, albeit not always the cheapest , but in my case i use ryanair as benchmark price and then check the competition out, if your on a budget then people should shop round first.:ok:

davidjohnson6

27th Feb 2011, 19:16

Please tell me where you can book a £50 return flight with Ryanair to the canairies, and i'll book it!!! take-off
I regret I am unable to predict when flights to the Canaries will be dirt cheap, but if you had booked in mid November 2010 for

Saturday 04 Dec Stansted dep 0730 Lanzarote 1145
Sunday 05 Dec Lanzarote dep 1825 Luton arr 2240

then you would have been able to pay a total fare inclusive of non-optional taxes + charges of £37. This of course assumes you can play Ryanair's game - i.e. have a pre-paid Mastercard, and that you have only hand luggage. By virtue of the dates, one implicitly also assumes that you do not have kids who have to do homework at the weekend. I imagine that if one is happy to fly mid-week, the price could be lower.

Certainly this is a remarkable bargain and for some people 4+ hours each way of Ryanair may be a little wearing particularly with all the various assumptions in getting FR's lowest fares, but it seems to indicate that if you are very flexible on dates and prepared to spend a lot of time searching air fares, a round trip from the UK to the Canaries and back can be done for under £50

IJM

27th Feb 2011, 19:24

When I talk to customers, so many tell me how good ryanair is, its just tossers and the press who go over the top and point out all the bad bits or when things do go wrong.

On another thread on this website recently, there were some comments on Ryanair's reported cancellation, at short notice, of routes from Girona, and the impact upon Ryanair customers who had booked on these flights.

Are the Ryanair customers who have been inconvenienced, and have the temerity to comment on it, "tossers"?

Fine way to describe your customers.

widey158

27th Feb 2011, 20:07

take-off,

Depending on where you are from

Midlands:
March 28-April 1 EMA-TFS-EMA £54, if you get the return ticket separately £24+€30=£50
March 29-April BHX-TFS-BHX £50
London:
March 27-31 LTN-FUE-LTN £50

Bottom line is, that's possible. I've been to Canaries for this price (screenshot):
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7735/74879158557910854496156.jpg

Back on topic, in case of rapid fuel price spike, I do think Ryanair is in good position. They have the lowest cost base, huge capital, so for them to go under several things have to go wrong, not just one. Moreover, they are cheaper than everyone else and the gap is considerable.

If fuel and ticket prices rise, I think many businesses might switching to cheaper alternatives, i.e. easyJet or some Ryanair too. That's a huge problem for legacies.

Skipness One Echo

27th Feb 2011, 22:40

When I talk to customers, so many tell me how good ryanair is, its just tossers and the press who go over the top and point out all the bad bits or when things do go wrong.

fr-

Actually this is typically circular Ryanair thinking. There are lots of good points about the business model but since the dash for growth phase, closely welded to the "we don't need to listen as there's another new customer along in a minute" is over. Hence you now need to start listening and the first lesson in that is not to box everyone who disagrees with you as a "tosser". We pay your wages, perhaps that's worth remembering.

The article in the Sunday Times is worth reading.

FR-

28th Feb 2011, 01:23

The tosser bit was pointing towards a few on here who just post crap about ryanair all the time. The fact is you dont know what your on about.

fr-

pwalhx

28th Feb 2011, 07:13

I was avoiding comment but have to after the last one.

I guess I am a 'tosser' as I have critisised Ryanair in the past, in my view with good reason.

However I do know what I am talking about. I use Ryanair and I accept when using them that I will get a fairly low level service but at a cheap price and that is why I use them. I do get annoyed when I am in a queue at an airport for an FR flight and people are moaning and have often said what do you expect for what you pay. I suspect a fair proportion of the 70 million passengers think the same as me.

I agree some of the comments on here are O.T.T. but please do not delude yourself regarding service levels.

INKJET

28th Feb 2011, 08:38

I think that people who moan all the time about Ryanair are in fact tossers in the same way that Racedo & FR are tossers for seeing no failings in their beloved Ryanair, in fact neither groups are tossers!!

The Ryanair product is rather good 99% of the time, the problem is the culture behind it, you can not help feeling that you are about to be scammed should you let your guard slip even for a second, i witness day after day people re packing suit cases, throwing away clothes and anything heavy and long queues to pay fines because they thought they were buying a ticket to fly to Spain not entry into a competition to see how well they had read the small print.

Ryanair do have a cost base advantage, but its not what it was once and moving to proper airports will over time level the playing field somewhat.

Any recovery in airline employment will see a mass exodus of pilots, one could fill a 777 a week to Dubai with wannabe 777 drivers from Ryanair, Emirates is an airline to aspire to whether an employee or a passenger, the same cannot be said of Ryanair, but i do not see 777 parked up all over Europe for days on end.

Ryanair product good, culture bad, stagnant market.........

pee

28th Feb 2011, 08:53

Ryanair product good, culture bad, stagnant market.........
That's a pretty good summary.

I think FR has kind of "secret weapon" they could use with a thriving effect. Starting a big PR campaign, like "The New Face of Ryanair". The same punctual, reliable and cheap carrier, but now more customer-friendly, caring. We'll offer now more pleasant experience (blah, blah), generally the better "treatment". It could do miracles, I guess. Worth trying, along with the better schedules (connections?), less deceptive booking system and a few more innovations - it could bring many pax more.

pwalhx

28th Feb 2011, 11:46

At last some sanity in the debate on here, pee you make some very good suggestions there.

eu01

28th Feb 2011, 15:57

Let's notice:
SEATTLE, Feb. 28, 2011 -- Boeing has delivered the 300th Next Generation 737-800 to Europe's largest low-fare carrier, Ryanair. The airline will take delivery of a total of 37 of these aircraft during 2011 and is the world's largest operator of the 737-800. Ryanair took delivery of its first 737-800, which seats 189 passengers, from Boeing in 1999.

Ryanair's Chief Executive Michael O'Leary said, "We are proud to take delivery of our 300th brand new Boeing 737 aircraft. The total value of the Ryanair fleet is now over $18 billion. We are proud to operate the youngest, greenest and most fuel-efficient fleet of any major European airline. This aircraft will help us to grow to 78 million passengers this year."(...)

"The milestone delivery of this 737-800 to Ryanair is a tribute to the 737 and the strength and sustainability of Ryanair's business model", said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales & Marketing for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "The 737 offers an unbeatable combination of economics that will continue to give Ryanair a competitive advantage in the marketplace."Source: PRNewswire/Boeing (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1640).

Bengt

28th Feb 2011, 18:56

I think FR has kind of "secret weapon" they could use with a thriving effect. Starting a big PR campaign, like "The New Face of Ryanair". The same punctual, reliable and cheap carrier, but now more customer-friendly, caring. We'll offer now more pleasant experience (blah, blah), generally the better "treatment". It could do miracles, I guess. Worth trying, along with the better schedules (connections?), less deceptive booking system and a few more innovations - it could bring many pax more.
I could not agree more. A Ryanair 2.0 with the credit card charge eliminated and instead included in all prices (not only the campaign prices) as well as all taxes included in all prices (not only the campaign prices). Add to that a Low Fares Explanation and Declaration which should be shown clearly on the website as well as in all booking confirmations:
Why Ryanair offer you not only the lowest fares but now also the best value:
1. Ryanair do not print boarding cards, you do and you save. If not Ryanair will charge you €40 (or whatever it is now).
2. Checked in Luggage is not included. If you want to send luggage you need to book it in advance etc...
3. Ryanair sometimes uses other airports than the main airport. This is to cut costs which gives you lower fares
4. Ryanair strictly follows all legislation regarding consumer protection. When you travel with Ryanair you are still expected to handle unexpected circumstances on your own and later possibly claim it back if it is eligible. Ryanair recommends travel insurance for all travellers (link...)

The phrasing could be better but I really do believe that this really could improve Ryanair's image. Think of it as now a low price but honest company.

Actually this is not very far from what Ryanair is today in practice (well the credit charge and taxes are) but it is very far away in image. I believe it could increase the brand value in about the same way as Skoda has changed it's brand name over the last 10 years.
This is coming from another frequent Ryanair traveller who often flies from Sweden to Spain (and UK and France and....) often with a disabled child and frequently gets excellent service by friendly Ryanair personell.

looot

1st Mar 2011, 09:20

west lakes

1st Mar 2011, 09:48

and where is this 18 billion noted in the balance sheet or annual report

Possibly something to do with the plaque on flight deck doors that states who the aircraft is leased from, FR don't as such own them as far as I know.
So the statement attesting to the value is correct.

MidlandDeltic

1st Mar 2011, 10:37

Possibly something to do with the plaque on flight deck doors that states who the aircraft is leased from, FR don't as such own them as far as I know.

All were purchased by the company, with a proportion on sale and leaseback from finance companies. I believe a proportion are directly owned.

MD

befree

1st Mar 2011, 15:18

18 billion for 300 planes makes each around 60 million euros.
that is something like the new list price.

many are owned by 3rd parties to which FR pay leasefees (74 m a qtr) and the value of the own aircraft drops by 200m a qrt (for a fleet of 255 planes as 31/12/2010). When they come to sell the aircraft they can make an additional profit or loss depending on the gap between book price and real selling price. As the market for 2nd hand planes is bad at the mo they are returning planes to leaseholders instread of selling off owned planes.

One line from the q3 accounts may help you value the fleet:-In the nine months ended December 31, 2009 four Boeing 737-800 aircraft and two spare engines were disposed of, generating sales proceeds of €93.3m.

The 18 billion worth of new planes are worth about 7 billion after 5 years. (its almost as bad a new cars). In reality MOL paid a lot less that 18 billion for them.

racedo

1st Mar 2011, 18:57

"The total value of the Ryanair fleet is now over $18 billion"

and where is this 18 billion noted in the balance sheet or annual report? Last year's total assets were about 7 billion euros.... Cash 2 billion euros.

Why does it have to be anywhere ?

Its a statement in a Press release..............that's er it.

racedo

1st Mar 2011, 19:02

In the nine months ended December 31, 2009 four Boeing 737-800 aircraft and two spare engines were disposed of, generating sales proceeds of €93.3m.

Lets see average exchange rates in 2009 make each aircraft sold for approx $32 Million and as they would have been ordered in 2001 giving a best guess of $22 Million each then they are slightly different than a car.

TSR2

1st Mar 2011, 19:22

Would you call these passengers tossers?

Passengers arriving for the Girona to Madrid flights last week found no aircraft, no crew, and no explanation at the Ryanair check-in desk. It appears that the flights were withdrawn but Ryanair made no comment.

LGS6753

1st Mar 2011, 19:50

According to Travel Weekly, Ryanair have agreed to display fully inclusive prices for flights from June 1st:

Ryanair agrees to demands for price transparency - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2011/02/28/36280/ryanair+agrees+to+demands+for+price+transparency.html)

Discuss...

eu01

1st Mar 2011, 20:07

agreed to display fully inclusive prices
High time. Good for them. Should have happened voluntarily years ago.

alexccfairport

3rd Mar 2011, 09:00

Hello everybody ! This is my 1st message on this forum :)

Ryanair cancelled all routes at Pau airport from March 26th 2011.

New rumours :

Paris Beauvais (BVA) to Carcassonne (CCF)
Paris Beauvais (BVA) to Lourdes (LDE)
Paris Beauvais (BVA) to Perpignan (PGF)

FR-

3rd Mar 2011, 10:35

Do you have any idea which base will be flying the new BVA routes

fr-

pee

3rd Mar 2011, 12:18

It took a while for Ryanair to realize that South-European destinations are much more attractive for Finnish passengers than many else, but now things start to happen. Two new Italian destinations from Tampere just announced: Rome and Trapani, to be launched in May and June, respectively.

Well done.:ok:

alexccfairport

3rd Mar 2011, 12:21

New route confirmed

Paris Beauvais Tillé (BVA) to Béziers Cap d'Agde (BZR)

alexccfairport

3rd Mar 2011, 12:30

New routes from Rome as well :

Rome Ciampino (CIA) to Riga International (RIX)
Rome, Ciampino (CIA) to Thessaloniki, Makedonia (SKG)

alexccfairport

3rd Mar 2011, 12:34

And ryanair transfered the Pau-Charleroi route to Biarritz

Skipness One Echo

3rd Mar 2011, 12:56

Why does it have to be anywhere ?

Its a statement in a Press release..............that's er it.

It's a clever-ish way of representing the fleet as an owned assset without explicitly stating it as such. Now of course anyone with a business background will see through that but most people will go "Blimey, cash in the bank!". Which it's not.

I love Ryanair press statements, a challenge for Dewey Decimal I think!

Seljuk22

3rd Mar 2011, 13:53

CIA to FMM, RIX, TMP, SKG and VNO (announced earlier) and a 7th a/c will arrive in May.
Ryanair punta sempre più forte su Ciampino: altri 5 voli e nuovi investimenti - Economia - ilGiornale.it del 03-03-2011 (http://www.ilgiornale.it/economia/ryanair_punta_sempre_piu_forte_ciampino_altri_5_voli_e_nuovi _investimenti/aeroporti_roma-ciampino-ryanair-oleary-ciampino-viterbo-riga-vilnius-tampere-salonicco-monaco/03-03-2011/articolo-id=509537-page=0-comments=1)

Charlie Roy

3rd Mar 2011, 14:07

CIA to FMM, RIX, TMP, SKG and VNO (announced earlier) and a 7th a/c will arrive in May.

pee will be happy :ok:

FA10

3rd Mar 2011, 14:33

Air France will be happy - they departed Pau to Orly by the same time FR went to BVA. AF was flying seats, FR was flying passengers (a lot of!).

However - travelling distance from Pau to Tarbes is quite short, less than average FR passengers are used to.
Maybe FR is going to call it Lourdes/Tarbes-Pau East.

The route BVA-PUF was to be done by a Cagliari based aircraft in summer, the gap is likely to be filled with one of the new southern french destinations from BVA.

FA10

racedo

3rd Mar 2011, 18:56

It's a clever-ish way of representing the fleet as an owned assset without explicitly stating it as such. Now of course anyone with a business background will see through that but most people will go "Blimey, cash in the bank!". Which it's not.

Nope it is stating VALUE and even then not qualified value, ownership is not mentioned. Its a PR release NOT a statement to a Bank, Stock Exchange or Investor.

befree

4th Mar 2011, 09:12

Ryanair loves spining the value of its planes but over the next few years they will become a dead weight.

The traffic numbers are out for Feb. Easyjet adds 13% more pax and fills 87% of seats, FR adds just under 5% and sells only 76% of its seats. it looks like FR had about 25% of its fleet grounded last month for most of each week. That is a few billion euros of assets not working for shareholders.

Skipness One Echo

4th Mar 2011, 09:33

Nope it is stating VALUE and even then not qualified value, ownership is not mentioned. Its a PR release NOT a statement to a Bank, Stock Exchange or Investor.

racedo you are of course correct in what you say, the overall impression that the message gives is subtly different, Joe Public hears it in a simpler way.

Sorry Joe !

MUFC_fan

4th Mar 2011, 09:38

it looks like FR had about 25% of its fleet grounded last month for most of each week.

It very much depends on which 25% you talk about. That is a few billion euros of assets not working for shareholders.

If those are ones that are directly owned by Ryanair then really they're losing less money sat there than in the sky as MOL has said on many occasions.

The traffic numbers are out for Feb. Easyjet adds 13% more pax and fills 87% of seats, FR adds just under 5% and sells only 76% of its seats.

easyJet does seem to have the more sustainable business product and IMO chose the right aircraft size in the A319. Now they've added the A320 to add more flexibility to the schedule which can only be of benefit, certainly during the summer in and out of AGP, ALC etc.

AP1995

6th Mar 2011, 14:31

i was wondering if anyone could help me, i have booked a flight with ryanair from manchester to alicante & i was wondering how long before the flight check in closes, is it 40 minutes before the flight?

Jamie2k9

6th Mar 2011, 14:37

Check-in - closes 40 minutes before flights departure tiime.
Gate - closes 20 minutes before flight departure tiime.

frfly

6th Mar 2011, 14:44

Haha be careful there....check in shuts -4hours. Bag Drop closes -40mins.

clareview

6th Mar 2011, 21:56

Be very careful of the above advice - Ryanair check in is on line and must be done at least 4 hours before departure.

BALLSOUT

7th Mar 2011, 09:05

check in closes 4 hours before departure but this is done on line and normaly from home.
If you have bags to check in then you will need to be there to drop them into bag drop at least 40 minutes before departure.
If you only have hand bagage, you just go straight through security and must be at the departure gate at least 20 minutes before departure.

lfc84

7th Mar 2011, 09:50

Have a read of this.

FAQS : Online Check-In/Airport Bag Drop Desks (http://www.ryanair.com/en/questions/airport-and-online-check-in)

planenut321

7th Mar 2011, 11:29

Little off topic...

I was wondering if anyone can help me...

I need to write a report on Ryanair for a bit of coursework. Would anyone be able to tell me where I can get load factors for Ryanair flights and a comparison with other airlines on the same routes. Preferably ones where the FR LF is far greater than the other airline.

Cheers.

horatio_b

7th Mar 2011, 12:04

Figures might be quite difficult to compare

I understand that Ryanair include no-shows in their published load factors

Jamie2k9

8th Mar 2011, 19:06

Ryanair may reduce flights from Alciante from October because of a dispute. Airlines will have to install passenger boarding bridges in the new Terminal. Ticket prices will also rise as a result.

Ryanair threatens to reduce operations at Alicante Airport (http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_29536.shtml)

Problems in Gran Canaria with the new airport computer system. Ryanair have said they will close the base within months in the problem isn't resolved.

GnRdL

8th Mar 2011, 19:55

Ryanair may reduce flights from Alciante from October because of a dispute. Airlines will have to install passenger boarding bridges in the new Terminal. Ticket prices will also rise as a result.
Regarding the argument to raise prices for using the airbridges, is as improbable as keep an eye on the prices of the routes from Madrid (where they operate with airbridges) and prices from Alicante. According to this reason, the basis of Madrid should be a major economic losses.

FR-

8th Mar 2011, 20:44

Why try and compare MAD to ALC? Totally different markets.

fr-

sierra5913

9th Mar 2011, 00:30

Ryanair talks Chinese, Russian jets after falling out with Boeing

Ryanair talks Chinese, Russian jets after falling out with Boeing (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/ryanair-talks-chinese-russian-jets-after-falling-out-with-boeing-20110309-1bn5g.html)

I'm sure its a bit of brinkmanship on behalf of Ryanair. I had a laugh anyway.

Ryanair, Europe's biggest low-cost airline, has launched talks with Russian and Chinese aircraft manufacturers about supplying the carrier with new planes, Ryanair head Michael O'Leary said yesterday.

The Irish airline currently flies only Boeing 737 jets but it broke off negotiations with the US firm on a massive new plane order in late 2009 because the two sides could not agree on terms and conditions.

Russia's United Aircraft and China's Comac have provided jets mostly to their domestic carriers and are largely untested in Western markets, where Boeing and European rival Airbus dominate the market.

"We have just started talks with the Russian and the Chinese. There is nothing to update on that at the moment," O'Leary told a news conference in Madrid.

United Aircraft Corp. is developing a medium range jet that can seat between 150 and 212 passengers called the MS-21 that will compete with Boeing's 737 and Airbus' A320 and which has already been ordered by Russia's Aeroflot.
Comac is working on a similar single-aisle passenger jet called the C919.

Both are expected to be introduced after 2014.
Ryanair, which operates more than 1500 flights a day, expects to carry around 73.5 million passengers in the fiscal year ending March 2011.

411A

9th Mar 2011, 02:18

I wish them well, however....as one Russian new type crashed just awhile ago, I expect passengers will not be amused.
MOL seems to get more 'strange' every day....ready for the rubber room perhaps?

Capetonian

9th Mar 2011, 02:36

MOL seems to get more 'strange' every day
He should team up with Gadaffi, who may soon have a few unused jets going. I think there is some potential there :

Fly Ryanair from your closest military airport in a Sukhoi fighter direct to your destination.
Land as close as you want to your destination with Ryanair's new ejector seat service.
Flights from 0.99.
Ejector seats, safety harnesses, fuel, ammunition, pilot, overflying fees, UN sanctions charges not included

MountainBear

9th Mar 2011, 05:41

MOL seems to get more 'strange' every day....ready for the rubber room perhaps?

I don't see what is so crazy about this idea. Granted, I think Ryanair may be a decade or two ahead of schedule but I think that it's a foregone conclusion that one day China will make an airplane just well and just as safe as the USA or Europe and likely significantly cheaper.

Ahead of his time, maybe. Crazy? Nope.

A. Le Rhone

9th Mar 2011, 05:58

Unsophisticated negotiation skills epitomized!

As if Boeing and Airbus can't see past such a stupid tactic.

In spite of all of the 'nearly there's' The Russians and certainly not the Chinese are yet able to manufacture an aircraft that reaches wester levels of reliability and safety.

In the Russian case the problem is expense of operation. As even Aeroflot admitted, the economics of current Russian airlines just don't compare to Airbusses and Boeings. In such a low-margin industry as low cost airlines there is no way Ryanair could make them work.

And Chinese airliners? Perhaps in 20 years but no way right now. Just look at the AVIC DC9 copy for a perfect example of why you wouldn't do that.

So it does raise a concern that MOL thinks such a stupid negotiation ploy would work. Perhaps Airbus and Boeing should just say 'go right ahead Michael. See the value of MOL's shares plummet then!

Stu666

9th Mar 2011, 06:23

Would it not have been more plausible if MOL had said Airbus or Embraer?

non0

9th Mar 2011, 07:23

They can talk as much as they want but surely if they want to continue to be a EULC, they will transition to A320!

BEagle

9th Mar 2011, 07:43

Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing over aircraft orders immediately after the 11 Sep 2001 terrorist attack, it's hardly surprising that they aren't prepared to offer such low prices to O'Leary's tawdry airline again.

Boeing have obviously learned that "If you sup with the devil you need a long spoon"!

Boeing and Airbus can survive without Ryanair; one wonders whether the converse applies?

Bobbsy

9th Mar 2011, 08:12

MOL's penny-pinching style is more than just an Ilyushin....

mickyman

9th Mar 2011, 08:17

BEagle:

'Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing'

Do you have a source for this qoute please...

'O'Leary's tawdry airline' which flies close on 70M 'tawdry passengers'

Evanelpus

9th Mar 2011, 08:20

Comic Relief and April Fools Day all rolled into one.

MOL is a joke, he mugged Boeing post 9/11 and got a stack of aircraft at rock bottom prices and now he's got the hump because it's back to the real world.

I very much doubt Ryanair will go Chinese or Russian, it's all willy waving if you ask me.

groundbum

9th Mar 2011, 08:34

I think MOL needs to also think resale value, ie after he has these mystery jets for 5 or 10 years will he be able to sell them for anything? There's a reason BMWs and Mercedes cost more, they hold their value, and that has a huge impact on total cost of ownership calculations..

Of course the manufacturer may offer to buy their own jets back for a fair price, as the leverage they would get from exposure to a Western airline would be huge...

Flypuppy

9th Mar 2011, 08:37

Mickyman
In full flight but aiming to go higher - Business, Frontpage - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/in-full-flight-but-aiming-to-go-higher-1044083.html)
Untitled Page (http://www.andyallen.info/ryanair_buying_strategy.html)

Piltdown Man

9th Mar 2011, 09:17

The Pikey is almost certainly speaking with all potential aircraft manufacturers, it's what he's paid to do. But whether the talks will progress into orders, assuming the aircraft are developed and deliverable, is another thing. But will other manufacturers play ball? Unlikely. He's going to be screwed over whatever he buys next. And then there's the cost of retraining - will RYR's pilots be able to afford it?

As for Russians and Chinese building to Western standards. No problem, they have excellent designers and engineers. They've just never had a large enough market for Western style aircraft - until now. They are not going away and every day they improve their products. Their engineers are every bit as capable as Boeing's and they have the full support of their governments - If the same support happens for Boeing or Airbus someone will shout "Foul!"

mickyman

9th Mar 2011, 10:03

Flypuppy

Thanks for the reference re:the shameful comment.

Piltdown Man

Your comments are negated by the use of the term 'Pikey'

MM

Skipness One Echo

9th Mar 2011, 10:16

BEagle:'Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing'

mickeyman mon ami
It's also in Siobhan Creaton's book, also well worth a read if you can.....you might learn how MOL got so very rich and treats his staff like sh1t. Not a tabloid sting by any means, just a look back about how Ryanair ended up where they are.

mickyman

9th Mar 2011, 10:39

Skipness:

Im not naive - but some comments are allowable/funny/stupid and some comments are not.

MM

Momoe

9th Mar 2011, 11:17

"as one Russian new type crashed just awhile ago"

As have Boeing's, Airbus and other aircraft. Russian aircraft design isn't too shabby, if the aircraft were flown to western standards the hull loss stats would improve dramatically.
The TU154M that did the emergency landing at a disused field in Russia looks like it'll fly out soon, care to emulate that with any equivalent western type?

The only aircraft I can recall that passengers were wary of was the DC-10, think yourself lucky you flew the other Tri.

Skipness One Echo

9th Mar 2011, 12:41

Im not naive - but some comments are allowable/funny/stupid and some comments are not.

I agree entirely, a CEO publically mentioning he "raped" his main supplier is not professional.

NorthernCounties

9th Mar 2011, 14:11

Apart from of course a decent replacement for older 738's why doesn;t O'Leary look at the E195. This would be perfect for Ryanair to make profit from smaller destinations but still be able to pack the passengers in!

SmilingKnifed

9th Mar 2011, 17:49

[QUOTE]O'Leary's tawdry airline' which flies close on 70M 'tawdry passengers/QUOTE]

That would be the one, yes.

mickyman

9th Mar 2011, 18:24

SmilingKnifed

Arrogance catching is it ?

MM

racedo

9th Mar 2011, 22:18

I don't see what is so crazy about this idea. Granted, I think Ryanair may be a decade or two ahead of schedule but I think that it's a foregone conclusion that one day China will make an airplane just well and just as safe as the USA or Europe and likely significantly cheaper.

They already assembling Airbus', how long ago were they doing the same with cars and look what their car industry is now.

SmilingKnifed

10th Mar 2011, 00:22

Sorry mickyman, you did leave rather a good opening though! :ok:

clareview

10th Mar 2011, 18:33

Tell me one person who does not try to play one supplier off against another? Do none of you price around when buying a car or a holiday or a tv?

Thats what Ryanair did to get such a good deal from Boeing and to describe good negotiating, driving a hard bargain and bettering all other buyers can hardly be describes as a joke.

Of course times change and the tactics that worked in 2001/2002 may not be appropriate now. Remember however at one stage Ryanair did stop buying new for a while and was seriously in the market for good second hand B737's.

Business is business and getting the best possible deal is good business

BFS101

10th Mar 2011, 19:46

Business is business and getting the best possible deal is good business
Oh I agree completely, but would you come out of Curry's or a Thomson travel shop claiming that you had r*ped them!! I wouldn't like to think so. A bit of dignity, decorum and self-respect, but those words don't really seem to appear in FR / MO'L vocabulary.

If Curry's staff witnessed you spouting such rubbish, do you really think they'll great you with open arms the next time you go back to change your blu-ray player, or pick up a toaster???

racedo

10th Mar 2011, 21:33

If Curry's staff witnessed you spouting such rubbish, do you really think they'll great you with open arms the next time you go back to change your blu-ray player, or pick up a toaster???Yup they would if there was commission in it.

Much as Boeing feel aggrieved they a lot happier they got the order than Airbus.

300 Aircraft later plus 48 on order and 173 options they still have a big grin on their faces. Ryanair has purchased the equivalent of 1 1/2 years production from Boeing of their 737.

Ask the Boeing rep who signed the deal would he rather be known as the guy who got Ryanair to start buying their 500 plus jets they will buy or the Guy who lost Ryanair to Airbus.

carbootking

11th Mar 2011, 07:34

as much as we all hate ryanair it keeps us in a job, at the of the day the planes have to maintenance and parts and parts cost money new tyres etc all these keep people in jobs , local areas where ryanair base planes cabin crew need to rent somewhere , so if ryanair is to pull out an area , or go bust in the end it kills whole areas.

racedo

13th Mar 2011, 21:34

Kicked this one to the Mods to look at as Flightmapping is a midlands based site and concerned that given what posters have highlighted it appears to be a "deliberate" false story.

wowzz

13th Mar 2011, 21:48

I was always told that the secret to a good negotiation was to make sure that the losing party [ies] felt that they had a chance to get the business when the next bidding opportunity came along.
In this case, if I was Airbus, I wouldn't even bother to tender, meaning that Boeing could 'rape' [his words] MOL

PPRuNe Pop

13th Mar 2011, 22:13

Before anyone places a post on this or any other thread that is questionable, as this one is, it must not be placed if it is NOT fact. Something 5 years or more is NOT.

That particular tale is now removed. Please do not repeat it.

svencarlson

15th Mar 2011, 11:44

Can anyone help me to find out the number of Ryanair aircraft at each of their bases for Summer 2011?

Seljuk22

15th Mar 2011, 11:59

svencarlson, looking for the same thing. I think it could be like that:

Stansted 40 ?
Dublin 15 ?
Madrid 14
Bergamo 14
Charleroi 13
Alicante 10 (11 July/August ?)
Hahn 8
Liverpool 8
Barcelona 8
Niederrhein 7
Ciampino 7
Pisa 7
Faro 7
Edinburgh 6 (up to 8 ?)
Nottingham 6
Prestwick 6
Skavsta 6
Gerona 5
Bristol 5
Porto 5
Malaga 4
Bologna 4
Trapani 4
Birmingham 4
Luton 4
Rygge 4
Bremen 3
Reus 3
Sevilla 3
Kaunas 2
Leeds 2
Bari 2
Cagliari 2
Valencia 2
Gran Canaria 2
Teneriffa 2
Lanzarote 2
Marseille 2 (base will close in September)
Bournemouth 1
Cork 1 (2 Juni - August)
Alghero 1
Brindisi 1
Pescara 1
Malta 1
Shannon 1