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See the armchair CEO's dartboard is back out again
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indeed but a rumour site this is and a little bit of fun
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I would imagine a good size fleet at BHX from Day 1 with multiple daily domestics such as GLA, EDI, BHD maybe IOM and CI..
Plus a range of European destination within 2 hour flying time. I wouldn't expect much apart from BHX initially :-) But all guess work on my part ! |
Dash 8
Thursday was busy, today it managed just over 15 minutes before returning to BHX en route Cardiff, tech I believe.
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CIs might be stretching it a bit, BHX already has GR serving Guernsey, SI and Easyjet serving Jersey, is there room for three???
The training flight routes and airports seem interesting, maybe random but most likely not. Liverpool featured on Thursday. |
The training flight routes and airports seem interesting, maybe random but most likely not. Liverpool featured on Thursday. My money is on random :ok: |
Wouldn’t be so sure. I’d heard LPL were very keen to entice them onto BHD-LPL.
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But why random? Surely it would make more sense to visit airports you'll operate into if you're going to bother with the training in the first place. (assuming this is mandated by the CAA for experience). Not saying the routes will be the routes, but it seems odd they would visit some of the airfields they are if not intending to operate into them. But then its Flybe so random with no benefit would also make complete sense. They're hardly known for their joined up thinking.
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Using that logic Prestwick, Newquay etc would be busier airports than they are.
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Newquay would make sense, but when did they visit Prestwick? If you look at where they have been all of the airfields would be logical options for them to operate into / out of.
If your talking about the use of both these airfields for training by other airlines, you need to differentiate between training like Flybe are doing (that is not the norm) and Base Training for a none ZFT type rating. Both Newquay and Prestiwck are used for Base Training by a few airlines, no doubt for many reasons. |
NQY and PIK are used because there's bugger all else going on and they can do as many touch and gos/landings as they want without hindrance
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you need to differentiate between training like Flybe are doing (that is not the norm) If you look at where they have been all of the airfields would be logical options for them to operate into / out of. And maybe that's what they want everybody to think. Maybe it's the old magicians trick - when they are telling us to look left, we should be looking right :ok: |
How many airlines fly aircraft around empty to conduct training other than for base training? This is probably similar to what Celio went through when gaining their AOC, getting everyone up to speed with an amount of experience flying simulated revenue flights. Line training without the passengers. Certainly not the norm.
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Just to be clear regarding Assured Aviation Services this is there first time trying ground handling. All they do at the moment is aircraft cleaning and washing.
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I'd say it's extremely unlikely for there to be enough room for BE to serve the CIs, certainly not profitably.
It's worth noting that Loganair currently serve ABZ, INV and IOM from BHX. If they were to potentially add GLA/EDI to that list, and taking into consideration the new tripartite partnership that they've just inked between themselves, GR & SI, I think they'll have the BHX to CIs market pretty much covered. For those travellers who fly between Scotland and the CIs, I'd guess that they'll more than likely make use of the existing option of connecting via SOU, or the direct easyJet service to JER from GLA. As for BHD, Emerald Airlines will almost certainly be considering BHX as a key route in the future once they've obtained their UK AOC and they'll simply take over from BA Cityflyer who only stepped-in as a consequence of Stobart Air's demise. |
7Three7Specialist
What could possibly go wrong!! |
I wonder how many Ground Handling companies actually tendered for the contract, Flybe choose the company with 0 experience verses the well established companies at BHX, maybe there wasn't to much choice? For a company trying to establish itself they're probably more willing to take a risk vs swissport and the rest who got their fingers burnt by Flybe Mk1.
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Being interesting to see who they use when the destinations are announced. Which GH companies lost money to mk 1?
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BHX only had one handling company before this announcement - Swissport !
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If we're going to be super accurate, Jet2 have their own handling company that operates at BHX. Interesting to see though Swissport didn't win the bid / were they interested? Most if not all companies that dealt with Flybe Mk1 lost money when they went under, unpaid bills etc etc. Thats no secret. Swissport being one of the larger handling agents throughout the flybe network will no doubt have had unpaid bills owed to them, therefore lost money, therefore had their fingers burnt.
Wasn't it World Fuels that actually started the whole process that ended up with the company ceasing operation when they refused to fuel aircraft due to unpaid bills? Creating the ripple effect that ended up with aircraft being seized by airports again due to unpaid bills? Or was all that just rumour? From what I remember of that night one domino fell and the rest went with it... with many fingers being burnt along the way. |
Were Swissport not an unsecured creditor of the previous incarnation?
If so it's entirely possible they told Flybe 2.0 that they would not deal with them unless or until the old debt was cleared. I certainly would have if I were in that position. |
World Flight Services handled Flybe prior to their ceasing Ops, I would have imagined the bill would have been settled prior to the change of service provider.
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Fair enough, no issues there then, unless other stations have o/s debts that head office would look to recover.
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Considering very few (if any) other organisations owed money by Flybe have received money, id have imagined that they did not settle any bill with WFS.
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I think D9009 was probably referring to Swissport's bills (for BHX services) WFS as you suggest were probably left out of pocket.
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Sorry, none of this makes sense. Are you saying that whoever handled BE at BHX were a secured creditor, and would have got all the money they were owed? Unless BE were paying in advance (unlikely!), I can't see any other scenario where the ground handlers at the time BE mk 1 went bust have been paid
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I think you're wasting your time trying to get others to differentiate between old and new Flybe.
Despite the fact this is a new company, run by a new Board of Directors and in different part of the Country....... Clearly whatever happened in the past will be repeated because the companies share the same name and logo but thats about it. :ugh: |
But the new BE seem quite happy to use the connection when it suits - "we're back after a break" :yuk: - and the people who lost money the first time are entitled to be sceptical....
fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, |
So if Zombie-flybe #norelationhonestguv intend on using GLA/EDI/ABZ/MAN/SOU/BHD are they not at some point going to have to use Swissport UK who arguably believe they're owed a lot of money? Or Menzies or similar?
Oh and seeing Jamie2009 advocating a W LHR from ABZ/EDI, I thought they'd lost those slots? |
It will be interesting to see what happens, whilst it may be legally a different company, its a hard pill to swallow for companies owed money, swissport and the fuel companies will be huge debts.
Maybe we will see Assured Aviation opening up handling bases all over the country?? Thats one way to get around any issues. |
Jamie2009
You have to remember whilst legally it might be a different company it is essentially the same owners, same name, same aircraft etc etc. A lot of people were effected by the closure, granted most companies had plotted it demise long before hence the quick reactions of the likes of LM / GR / SI and even to some extent Easy. These companies have now stepped in and in very challenging conditions trying to make it work. You then have the handling companies that laid off a lot of staff straight after (but before covid) due to Flybe. Newrest, outside of London, GONE, overnight. All due to Flybe. Cleaning companies, fuel companies and so on. March 2020 prior to covid was very turbulent for many people due to Flybe, even people who weren't directly working for Flybe, its understandable people have reservations / frustrations etc. Id imagine Eastern and Blue Islands struggled through due to loosing money thanks to being Franchise Partners... then 2 weeks later COVID! |
On the one hand if the FlyBe brand has recognition and support, and it probably does, then that goodwill is an asset the liquidator can realise. I doubt it'll be more than a fraction of a penny for the unsecured creditors but that's how capitalism works.
Can anybody explain how the current legal/beneficial interests in 'new' FlyBe align with those of old FlyBe? |
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, it's probably a duck.
Nobody else get this? As you may have heard or seen in the news a few months ago, a new company called Thyme OpCo (later renamed “flybe Limited”) acquired the assets of old flybe Limited (in Administration) earlier this year as part of an asset sale and purchase agreement (the “Asset Transfer”). As part of this Asset Transfer, your personal customer data on file with old flybe Limited (in Administration) (which may include booking date, name, address, home/mobile phone number, email address and language preference) was transferred to Thyme OpCo (the new flybe Limited.) either because you had previously granted old flybe permission to use this information for your booked flights and other services, or because your data was otherwise part of the permitted database of airline customers and contacts that was being used by old flybe Limited (in Administration). flybe Limited as a data controller Accordingly, we are writing to let you know that the new flybe Limited (company number 12875147), is now the 'data controller' of your data, and that the new flybe Limited will process your personal data in accordance with our privacy policy which you can find here. Your data and your marketing preferences You will have the opportunity to update your account details in future communications. If you had previously given your consent to receiving electronic marketing (or if you had opted in when making a purchase), you will also have the opportunity to update your marketing preferences in future communications. If you have any questions in the meantime, you can contact us at [email protected] Thanks for your patience while we work hard to bring back a new and improved flybe. Best wishes from the entire team at the new flybe Limited. |
I suspect that's no more than what Data Protection Law requires when the insolvent company's brand and goodwill are sold on. I've had messages in very similar terms where High Street stores have gone belly up and the brand has re-emerged as a web based operation.
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Skipness One Foxtrot
so they’re planning going head to head with BA?? I’m struggling to believe this! |
I’m struggling to believe any of it. Im guessing any struggling ground servicing company would still take any ‘newCo’ business while leaving others to deal with debts.
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As I eluded on this thread back in April, there will always be one. Seen it too many times.
Outside of ground handling, it is clear they have agreements with core debtors they need to move forward and run the operation. Can not believe for 1 minute that affected CFO's would simply overlook and wave them through. BHX being one of them I imagine. |
I've certainly heard about a couple of airports and handlers declining to offer deals or credit terms to new Flybe and one of several reasons cited is the debt from old Flybe. Rogue One's comment is legally and technically correct, but that does not take into account the natural caution and ill-feeling generated towards one of the same shareholders now re-appearing as a new business after also seeing a preferential return from the security it held in old Flybe.
And I can't seriously believe they are going to go anywhere near the LHR operation, slots or no slots. |
I would have thought that their suppliers would be insisting on payment in advance into what I think us called an escrow account.
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Any previous supplier is likely to insist on payment in advance into what I think is called an escrow account.
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