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AirportPlanner1 24th Mar 2022 07:41


Originally Posted by BA318 (Post 11204850)
You also have to remember many companies wonít even consider allowing the plane journey regardless of the difference in costs. Lots of policies prohibit plane rides when the train is under a certain length of time or no flights on domestic etc.

Very true but virtually all those I know in the north are self-employed/consultants who can travel how they choose, whereas those who travel north for work purposes are mostly employed and as you say prohibited from flying.

Not sure how representative that is of the wider world but certainly there is a market there, but equally yes in the wider sense corporate sustainability is a challenging factor to domestic that wasnít there for BE Mk 1. I guess weíre both right!

anothertyke 24th Mar 2022 12:29


Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 (Post 11204848)
I looked at one way morning fares for Leeds to London by train, itís £143 tomorrow, £125 on Monday with a few £88s around in three weeks time. The last minute ones come with warnings of limited seats being free. Evening journeys north start from £104 tomorrow and around £59 in a months time.

There probably is a decent market for those wanting to go south in relative comfort and those wanting to save a bit of money. Itís worth noting anything less than £143 single on the train is no more flexible than the flight as itís set train only. Although the airport comes with costs like parking, city centre car parks near stations arenít cheap either.

The problem will be filling the opposite direction where the train at equivalent times can be as little as £38 return. And of course whether undercutting the train even at something like £200 return makes money with LHRís charges.

It remains to be seen what the day before air fares are so as to compare like with like.

There's always been a bit of a market to SW London and Surrey, offices in Woking, Kingston etc. But surely the main LBA-LHR market has been connections to the world. The morning flight up to LBA was always a godsend after a long overnight flight arriving into LHR at 6 am. But will long haul travellers be willing to do self-connect? That feels a bit risky to me.

BA318 27th Mar 2022 18:21


Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 11206485)
We've come a long way considering many "experts" on here suggested that it was purely a slot grab to cash in on Heathrow slots. The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe it's just a shame that most of the cold apples seem to be on this forum who have nothing better to do than belittle and moan. Let's just be thankful that lots of people will be able to get back into the jobs they loved, I for one wish new Flybe all the best.

Secondly, does anyone else think the new flybe livery has a close resemblance to the proposed Air Southwest livery that never actually happened? The uniforms certainly are a copycat of ASW although why they've gone for black with a purple neckscarf I have no idea, I would have preferred the old purple uniforms back. I've also been told that the cabins have been given a well deserved refresh with new seat covers although what colour I have no idea! I'm certainly looking forward to flying with them out of Heathrow in a few months time.

majority of the public? The majority of the public couldnít care less and if you look at social media there is a fair amount of negative comments.

Letís just see how it goes before making presumptuous comments and acting like society is crying out for Flybe2.

The addition of LHR-LBA and LHR-AMS donít really scream serious airline planning to keep those slots long termÖ

Atlantic Explorer 27th Mar 2022 18:22


Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 11206485)
We've come a long way considering many "experts" on here suggested that it was purely a slot grab to cash in on Heathrow slots. The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe it's just a shame that most of the cold apples seem to be on this forum who have nothing better to do than belittle and moan. Let's just be thankful that lots of people will be able to get back into the jobs they loved, I for one wish new Flybe all the best.

Secondly, does anyone else think the new flybe livery has a close resemblance to the proposed Air Southwest livery that never actually happened? The uniforms certainly are a copycat of ASW although why they've gone for black with a purple neckscarf I have no idea, I would have preferred the old purple uniforms back. I've also been told that the cabins have been given a well deserved refresh with new seat covers although what colour I have no idea! I'm certainly looking forward to flying with them out of Heathrow in a few months time.

Id love you to be able to substantiate that assertion but Iím guessing you wonít be able to. Letís see what happens, but I think you maybe having to eat some humble pie in the future.

Eejit 27th Mar 2022 20:43


Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 11206542)
Hmm the same humble pie i'm still waiting to eat when I said Flybe V2 would come to fruition? Typical spotters "I know more than you, I think you opinion is a load of poo and therefore I will find any reason to make it sound as such".

They haven't flown one revenue flight yet.

Skipness One Foxtrot 27th Mar 2022 21:15


The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe
Where was this gem of insight pulled from?

Atlantic Explorer 27th Mar 2022 21:16


Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 11206542)
Hmm the same humble pie i'm still waiting to eat when I said Flybe V2 would come to fruition? Typical spotters "I know more than you, I think you opinion is a load of poo and therefore I will find any reason to make it sound as such".

Bit of an assumption there assuming Iím a spotter isnít it? Youíve made a statement of fact, Iím asking if you can back it up which it seems you canít.

horatio_b 27th Mar 2022 22:03

I have just checked the Flybe Facebook page. First thing you see is the administration notice from March 2020. No recent posts and nothing about the new routes announced.

BA318 28th Mar 2022 06:57


Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 11206579)
Take a look at the Flybe twitter page, Maybe go do some research instead of spouting crap on this forum like the rest of the dickheads on here.

Another polite user. Iíll give you a hand. Rather than going to the propaganda source, go to Twitter, use the search function and write in Flybe.

Hereís some examples of the results:

ďIs the Flybe sizer scam back too, or is it just commercial creditors taking a reaming this time?Ē

ď
@flybe
Iíve paid for flights and not received any Confirmation? Money has been taken out of my account.Ē

ďSame planes , same baggage policies , no doubt the same unreliable service . Airlines run by VCs are all about money, it wonít be mine. Why keep the name of such a dreadful company with an awful reputationĒ

ďMust say Iím surprised to see them trading again after going bust not that long ago,do these companies have to make good on previous debts before being licensed again,surely there were losers when
Flybe went bustĒ

ďSo

@flybe
are back! I'll still never fly with you guys again. Charlatans and thieves.Ē

ďHi again flybe, good to know you are back. Now, how can I get my money back for the flights you cancelled 2 years ago?Ē

ďI thought fly(may)be went under? Not in a rush to book soon after leaving me stranded in Southend a few years back in the middle of the nightĒ

Thereís more but at least it gives an example.


I can only assume the defenders of Flybe2 have a horse in the race hence their passion to call people they have never met profanities and insults, which is bizarre as it would make me even less likely to want to use the carrier.

Asturias56 28th Mar 2022 08:13

no - they have good memories of the Airline

What they don't want to believe is that others got burnt

personally I don't think they were any better or worse than any other small European airline of the time. I'd use the new FB - but without any rose tinted specs as to what might occur. They might be important for a few of the smaller airports if they are successful but a new major player they are not

willy wombat 28th Mar 2022 08:49

What confuses me about Flybe 2 is as follows (and I have no axe to grind, either way). Normally a company, not just an airline, is founded to meet a perceived need, to “fill a hole”, if you will. But this does not seem to be obviously the case here. Virtually all the routes announced are already served by competitors, and those that aren’t don’t look like gold mines. So what is the purpose - what is the usp that will drive Flybe 2’s profitability? I just keep coming back to the LHR and AMS slots, even though I can’t quite see how. One other comment. A few years ago I was sitting next to COW at an industry lunch. I remarked that I thought the Flybe business model was very complicated with bases all over the place and a route network that looked like a spiders web. Seems Flybe 2 is already going the same way.

ATNotts 28th Mar 2022 08:57

BA318:

I admire your diligence in locating and transcribing negative posting about Flybe from people who have suffered financial loss from the failure of the previous business, or have found fault in the new airline's booking process. However it can't have been too difficult a task, anyone could find negative postings on [email protected] about a myriad of other airlines, bus companies, hotels. And don't get me wrong, if I had lost money as a result of the collapse of a business, be it retail, travel or whatever I would be similarly miffed. What neither of the postings quoted appear to grasp is that whatever the name, this is not the Flybe that went bust, it happens to simply be trading under the same name. Personally I don't believe that was a particularly wise decision, but I'm not a marketing guru and I am guessing that the view of the new management and their marketing advisors the positives of the brand out weigh the negatives in the minds of the majority of the people from whom they hope to get booking. Would it have been better to call the new carrier "Flyme" and paint their aircraft pink? Perhaps; perhaps not.

Time alone will tell whether their marketing and route strategies are correct or not.

SWBKCB 28th Mar 2022 09:33


The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe

Over 100 different tweets too Flybe, I've only come across 5 angry tweets asking for money back or calling them Flymaybe.

Rather than going to the propaganda source, go to Twitter, use the search function and write in Flybe. Here’s some examples of the results:

I admire your diligence in locating and transcribing negative posting about Flybe from people who have suffered financial loss from the failure of the previous business, or have found fault in the new airline's booking process. However it can't have been too difficult a task, anyone could find negative postings on [email protected] about a myriad of other airlines, bus companies, hotels.
I think that tells the story - it's as ridiculous to say nobody likes flyBe based on Twitter comments as it is to say the majority of the public are behind them (or to believe Twitter relfects the real world in anyway...)

And I know it's all legal, but what I despise is that they can come back under the same name, pretending to be back, without paying their debts.

jmdavies86 28th Mar 2022 09:43


Originally Posted by BA318 (Post 11206492)
The addition of LHR-LBA and LHR-AMS don’t really scream serious airline planning to keep those slots long term…

LHR-AMS certainly doesn't make much sense given the stiff competition that they'll likely face from both BA & KLM; LHR-LBA makes a little more sense given it's currently an unserved route that has been previously operated from/to LHR, however it's already been discussed that a lack of a codeshare/interline agreement to allow for connections will not really help as customers will be required to pick their bags up and re-check in with the onward carrier.

I did hear a rather intriguing rumour from someone yesterday that they [Flybe 2.0] won't actually fly from/to LHR...they've just announced and put those routes on sale in order to avoid risk losing the slots. When I enquired as to a reason why, I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR, but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there and the runway length at LHR surely isn't an issue so I can't/don't believe this could be the case, however I'm not sure if any other airline has used the same aircraft type into LHR though and experienced issue(s)...?

tictack67 28th Mar 2022 09:49


Originally Posted by jmdavies86 (Post 11206754)
LHR-AMS certainly doesn't make much sense given the stiff competition that they'll likely face from both BA & KLM; LHR-LBA makes a little more sense given it's currently an unserved route that has been previously operated from/to LHR, however it's already been discussed that a lack of a codeshare/interline agreement to allow for connections will not really help as customers will be required to pick their bags up and re-check in with the onward carrier.

I did hear a rather intriguing rumour from someone yesterday that they [Flybe 2.0] won't actually fly from/to LHR...they've just announced and put those routes on sale in order to avoid risk losing the slots. When I enquired as to a reason why, I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR...but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there so I can't/don't believe this could be the case; not sure whether any other airline has used the aircraft type into LHR though and experienced any issue(s)...?

Loganair will be using ATR into LHR from the Isle of Man which is even slower.

Codeshare tie ups are not money makers, Flybe would typicall pick up around £25-£30 per codeshare ticket and flybe would be left with the lost luggage liability at the other end in LBA or Ams
KLM often used Embraer into LHR and BA A319 suggesting the Pax numbers aren't just there these days

BA318 28th Mar 2022 10:23


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11206748)
I think that tells the story - it's as ridiculous to say nobody likes flyBe based on Twitter comments as it is to say the majority of the public are behind them (or to believe Twitter relfects the real world in anyway...)

And I know it's all legal, but what I despise is that they can come back under the same name, pretending to be back, without paying their debts.

Exactly. I donít think the public care. If the price is right and itís a route they want then they will use it. Otherwise they couldnít care less.

The real test will be once ops start. A few issues and the names will stick. Hopefully things go well and they can expand into some of the missing niches.

ATNotts 28th Mar 2022 10:40


Originally Posted by BA318 (Post 11206774)
Exactly. I donít think the public care. If the price is right and itís a route they want then they will use it. Otherwise they couldnít care less.

The real test will be once ops start. A few issues and the names will stick. Hopefully things go well and they can expand into some of the missing niches.

Problem seems to be that the one aircraft they have been using for crew training appears to have been something of a "hangar queen" over the last couple of months. Tech issues and cancellations from the outset is the last thing they need as the MSM and Twitterati will be all over them like the proverbial rash.

brian_dromey 28th Mar 2022 11:08

But Iím
 

Originally Posted by jmdavies86 (Post 11206754)
When I enquired as to a reason whyk , I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR...but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there so I can't/don't believe this could be the case; not sure whether any other airline has used the aircraft type into LHR though and experienced any issue(s)...?

I imagine itís whispers and rumours to be honest and they have no basis in reality. flyBe 1.0 flew them for a fair number of years. A quick Google suggests flyBe weíre the only operator of the Q400 to Heathrow. So either operationally or commercially itís a dubious ideaÖ

All of that said the LBA-LHR timetable works for some trips I need to make, so Iím taking a risk they will successfully launch and fly the route. A new airline for the logbook, if not a new brand, I suppose.

tictack67 28th Mar 2022 15:13


Originally Posted by brian_dromey (Post 11206793)
I imagine itís whispers and rumours to be honest and they have no basis in reality. flyBe 1.0 flew them for a fair number of years. A quick Google suggests flyBe weíre the only operator of the Q400 to Heathrow. So either operationally or commercially itís a dubious ideaÖ

All of that said the LBA-LHR timetable works for some trips I need to make, so Iím taking a risk they will successfully launch and fly the route. A new airline for the logbook, if not a new brand, I suppose.

Luxair used to fly the Q400 into LHR from Luxembourg circa 2006 until pressure from LHR Auth.


https://www.flightglobal.com/baa-pre.../76296.article


cavokblues 28th Mar 2022 15:41


Originally Posted by tictack67 (Post 11206886)
Luxair used to fly the Q400 into LHR from Luxembourg circa 2006 until pressure from LHR Auth.


https://www.flightglobal.com/baa-pre.../76296.article

KLM were also regulars with the Fokker 50 until 2010.


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