On possible cooperation between BA and Flybe, when bmi operated LHR-LBA BA did codeshare on this route, but only when connecting to a BA long haul flight.

"BMI had 8 services a day to Amsterdam"

and far more reliable than BA - they were the airline of choice for many from LHR to AMS

I know, however codeshares are not all they are cracked up to be. bmi used to get £50 per codeshare flight, sometimes flights were booked full of them, often these are done way in advance meaning the Business man couldn't get a booking close to dep.
Part of the reason BMI ran a business class on domestics.

So whilst codeshares seem a good way to fill a flight they aren't a money maker

I think in BMA’s day it was more like £25 ow, £50 would be return. That’s why one of the companies I worked for stopped doing nightstops overseas because you had all the hotac, crew costs etc for an aircraft full of punters from whom you were getting peanuts. IMHO feeding long haul from short haul only works if it’s one carrier and the system revenue is what matters. Otherwise the short haul partner is screwed.

Rubbish, you just need to have someone competent in your Pricing dept who's not just going to roll over to have their tummy tickled by the LH carrier!

Given even Lufthansa couldn't turn around BMI, maybe it's not as easy as all that.....

BA woke up to this in the early 1980’s when yield management was in its infancy. Analysis of the revenue on the nightstoppers, particularly from AMS, BRU and CDG revealed Pan Am and TWA were paying peanuts to use these flights to feed their services from LHR. It led to the introduction of a 90% prorate requirement being published which soon ensured the low yield tap was turned off and more profitable traffic replaced that which was lost.

As for Flybe, I am puzzled by their LHR network. Is someone paying them to use some slots? In the longer term with high LHR charges, both airport and handling, it will be a struggle to make money with 78 seat aircraft and that is before any UK261 liabilities they may incur if they happen to deliver any missed connection traffic. No doubt all will be revealed in the fullness of time. I do hope they survive and prosper as we need successful domestic airlines to assist businesses and individuals across the country reach where they need to be at an affordable price. Cross Country train fares are often very high. Hopefully the reduction in domestic APD will provide some tailwind help from next year. There are more than enough headwinds for airlines at present!

I looked at one way morning fares for Leeds to London by train, it’s £143 tomorrow, £125 on Monday with a few £88s around in three weeks time. The last minute ones come with warnings of limited seats being free. Evening journeys north start from £104 tomorrow and around £59 in a months time.

There probably is a decent market for those wanting to go south in relative comfort and those wanting to save a bit of money. It’s worth noting anything less than £143 single on the train is no more flexible than the flight as it’s set train only. Although the airport comes with costs like parking, city centre car parks near stations aren’t cheap either.

The problem will be filling the opposite direction where the train at equivalent times can be as little as £38 return. And of course whether undercutting the train even at something like £200 return makes money with LHR’s charges.

You also have to remember many companies won’t even consider allowing the plane journey regardless of the difference in costs. Lots of policies prohibit plane rides when the train is under a certain length of time or no flights on domestic etc.

The train is great for city centre to city centre travel, provided that one of the city centres is London. For most people who do not live in a city centre, a journey by air may be preferable, and quite often cheaper and, subject to proximity to an airport, often quicker.

One doesn't have to live far from London for it to be a 2 hour journey plus, with several changes, just to get up to London, before even starting a 2 hour train journey to Leeds/Manchester or 3 hour train journey to Newcastle. Also one needs to consider that travel to/from Heathrow by train involves going via London and using different London stations plus the tube, while carrying luggage.

Domestic routes to/from LHR offer a one stop connection to the world, so LHR-LBA is not surprising especially as no one else is on it, and there maybe scope for code sharing. Would have expected another unserved domestic route rather than LHR-AMS, LPL perhaps (apart from the Liverpool conurbation it also has an additional populated catchment area in Flintshire/Denbighshire). LHR-LPL on U2's list if it ever starts Heathrow operations. Alternatively NQY, a route the old BE did well on, four times a day. Would it work without the PSO arrangements?

Also bear in mind that with weekend engineering works, rail travel is often a 5 days/week option. As for road travel, endless roadworks, death-trap smart motorways, heavy congestion, and speed cameras make this horridly slow and unpleasant.

It's good to have as much transport choice as possible and if a route doesn't pay, it will be pulled.

Very true but virtually all those I know in the north are self-employed/consultants who can travel how they choose, whereas those who travel north for work purposes are mostly employed and as you say prohibited from flying.

Not sure how representative that is of the wider world but certainly there is a market there, but equally yes in the wider sense corporate sustainability is a challenging factor to domestic that wasn’t there for BE Mk 1. I guess we’re both right!

It remains to be seen what the day before air fares are so as to compare like with like.

There's always been a bit of a market to SW London and Surrey, offices in Woking, Kingston etc. But surely the main LBA-LHR market has been connections to the world. The morning flight up to LBA was always a godsend after a long overnight flight arriving into LHR at 6 am. But will long haul travellers be willing to do self-connect? That feels a bit risky to me.

We've come a long way considering many "experts" on here suggested that it was purely a slot grab to cash in on Heathrow slots. The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe it's just a shame that most of the cold apples seem to be on this forum who have nothing better to do than belittle and moan. Let's just be thankful that lots of people will be able to get back into the jobs they loved, I for one wish new Flybe all the best.

Secondly, does anyone else think the new flybe livery has a close resemblance to the proposed Air Southwest livery that never actually happened? The uniforms certainly are a copycat of ASW although why they've gone for black with a purple neckscarf I have no idea, I would have preferred the old purple uniforms back. I've also been told that the cabins have been given a well deserved refresh with new seat covers although what colour I have no idea! I'm certainly looking forward to flying with them out of Heathrow in a few months time.

majority of the public? The majority of the public couldn’t care less and if you look at social media there is a fair amount of negative comments.

Let’s just see how it goes before making presumptuous comments and acting like society is crying out for Flybe2.

The addition of LHR-LBA and LHR-AMS don’t really scream serious airline planning to keep those slots long term…

Id love you to be able to substantiate that assertion but I’m guessing you won’t be able to. Let’s see what happens, but I think you maybe having to eat some humble pie in the future.

Hmm the same humble pie i'm still waiting to eat when I said Flybe V2 would come to fruition? Typical spotters "I know more than you, I think you opinion is a load of poo and therefore I will find any reason to make it sound as such".

They haven't flown one revenue flight yet.

Where was this gem of insight pulled from?

Bit of an assumption there assuming I’m a spotter isn’t it? You’ve made a statement of fact, I’m asking if you can back it up which it seems you can’t.

Over 100 different tweets too Flybe, I've only come across 5 angry tweets asking for money back or calling them Flymaybe. The majority of them are welcoming them back or asking them if they will be opening routes back up near to that persons location. Maybe go read some of the comments instead of sticking in your narrowminded bubble. I don't type anything without having actually done some research!

Take a look at the Flybe twitter page, Maybe go do some research instead of spouting crap on this forum like the rest of the dickheads on here.

I have just checked the Flybe Facebook page. First thing you see is the administration notice from March 2020. No recent posts and nothing about the new routes announced.

Another polite user. I’ll give you a hand. Rather than going to the propaganda source, go to Twitter, use the search function and write in Flybe.

Here’s some examples of the results:

“Is the Flybe sizer scam back too, or is it just commercial creditors taking a reaming this time?”

“@flybe
I’ve paid for flights and not received any Confirmation? Money has been taken out of my account.”

“Same planes , same baggage policies , no doubt the same unreliable service . Airlines run by VCs are all about money, it won’t be mine. Why keep the name of such a dreadful company with an awful reputation”

“Must say I’m surprised to see them trading again after going bust not that long ago,do these companies have to make good on previous debts before being licensed again,surely there were losers when Flybe went bust”

“So
@flybe
are back! I'll still never fly with you guys again. Charlatans and thieves.”

“Hi again flybe, good to know you are back. Now, how can I get my money back for the flights you cancelled 2 years ago?”

“I thought fly(may)be went under? Not in a rush to book soon after leaving me stranded in Southend a few years back in the middle of the night”

There’s more but at least it gives an example.

I can only assume the defenders of Flybe2 have a horse in the race hence their passion to call people they have never met profanities and insults, which is bizarre as it would make me even less likely to want to use the carrier.

no - they have good memories of the Airline

What they don't want to believe is that others got burnt

personally I don't think they were any better or worse than any other small European airline of the time. I'd use the new FB - but without any rose tinted specs as to what might occur. They might be important for a few of the smaller airports if they are successful but a new major player they are not

What confuses me about Flybe 2 is as follows (and I have no axe to grind, either way). Normally a company, not just an airline, is founded to meet a perceived need, to “fill a hole”, if you will. But this does not seem to be obviously the case here. Virtually all the routes announced are already served by competitors, and those that aren’t don’t look like gold mines. So what is the purpose - what is the usp that will drive Flybe 2’s profitability? I just keep coming back to the LHR and AMS slots, even though I can’t quite see how. One other comment. A few years ago I was sitting next to COW at an industry lunch. I remarked that I thought the Flybe business model was very complicated with bases all over the place and a route network that looked like a spiders web. Seems Flybe 2 is already going the same way.

BA318:

I admire your diligence in locating and transcribing negative posting about Flybe from people who have suffered financial loss from the failure of the previous business, or have found fault in the new airline's booking process. However it can't have been too difficult a task, anyone could find negative postings on [email protected] about a myriad of other airlines, bus companies, hotels. And don't get me wrong, if I had lost money as a result of the collapse of a business, be it retail, travel or whatever I would be similarly miffed. What neither of the postings quoted appear to grasp is that whatever the name, this is not the Flybe that went bust, it happens to simply be trading under the same name. Personally I don't believe that was a particularly wise decision, but I'm not a marketing guru and I am guessing that the view of the new management and their marketing advisors the positives of the brand out weigh the negatives in the minds of the majority of the people from whom they hope to get booking. Would it have been better to call the new carrier "Flyme" and paint their aircraft pink? Perhaps; perhaps not.

Time alone will tell whether their marketing and route strategies are correct or not.

I think that tells the story - it's as ridiculous to say nobody likes flyBe based on Twitter comments as it is to say the majority of the public are behind them (or to believe Twitter relfects the real world in anyway...)

And I know it's all legal, but what I despise is that they can come back under the same name, pretending to be back, without paying their debts.

LHR-AMS certainly doesn't make much sense given the stiff competition that they'll likely face from both BA & KLM; LHR-LBA makes a little more sense given it's currently an unserved route that has been previously operated from/to LHR, however it's already been discussed that a lack of a codeshare/interline agreement to allow for connections will not really help as customers will be required to pick their bags up and re-check in with the onward carrier.

I did hear a rather intriguing rumour from someone yesterday that they [Flybe 2.0] won't actually fly from/to LHR...they've just announced and put those routes on sale in order to avoid risk losing the slots. When I enquired as to a reason why, I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR, but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there and the runway length at LHR surely isn't an issue so I can't/don't believe this could be the case, however I'm not sure if any other airline has used the same aircraft type into LHR though and experienced issue(s)...?

Loganair will be using ATR into LHR from the Isle of Man which is even slower.

Codeshare tie ups are not money makers, Flybe would typicall pick up around £25-£30 per codeshare ticket and flybe would be left with the lost luggage liability at the other end in LBA or Ams
KLM often used Embraer into LHR and BA A319 suggesting the Pax numbers aren't just there these days

Exactly. I don’t think the public care. If the price is right and it’s a route they want then they will use it. Otherwise they couldn’t care less.

The real test will be once ops start. A few issues and the names will stick. Hopefully things go well and they can expand into some of the missing niches.

Problem seems to be that the one aircraft they have been using for crew training appears to have been something of a "hangar queen" over the last couple of months. Tech issues and cancellations from the outset is the last thing they need as the MSM and Twitterati will be all over them like the proverbial rash.

But I’m
 

I imagine it’s whispers and rumours to be honest and they have no basis in reality. flyBe 1.0 flew them for a fair number of years. A quick Google suggests flyBe we’re the only operator of the Q400 to Heathrow. So either operationally or commercially it’s a dubious idea…

All of that said the LBA-LHR timetable works for some trips I need to make, so I’m taking a risk they will successfully launch and fly the route. A new airline for the logbook, if not a new brand, I suppose.

Luxair used to fly the Q400 into LHR from Luxembourg circa 2006 until pressure from LHR Auth.


https://www.flightglobal.com/baa-pre.../76296.article

KLM were also regulars with the Fokker 50 until 2010.

"There's more" lol you've managed to find only a select few, most of those are probably the same people that would moan if the flight was 2 minutes late or because they've got a grudge with the airline anyway. You've also failed to acknowledge that the majority of tweets are asking them when they are going to reopen routes to Exeter, Newquay etc or welcoming them back.

I honestly don't know what your agenda is but you clearly have a grudge with Flybe and anyone who wants them to succeed. I'm all for having an alternative view point but when it's starts getting pathetic and just looking to bring up any old piece of dirty to further your own agenda that's when I get pissed.

Hence why the start of operations is with very limited routes, if you actually look at it and work it out. It's one aircraft flying with another on standby. Sensible and logical, unlike what some people seem to think of Flybe v2.