Jamie2009

..so is anything that slow. :E

If it is coordinated by Loganair, and it most probably is, then I thought it was quite a well-targeted social media low-level bombing run. I guess if Flybe are looking to take them on, it makes it clear that they'll hold their ground although I'd be surprised if anyone thought any differently. I can't think that many of the Flybe execs involved in the last war are still around, but the Loganair people certainly are. It will be a shame if it comes down to another pitch battle as the intense losses will take years to recover given the meagre returns in this market.

I think your fuel burn figures are way out. When I last looked at this about five years ago, the E145 trip fuel was fractionally below the Q400 on the same sector. If you fill both aircraft, the Q400 is far more efficient per seat, but if you're only carrying 40 passengers on either, the E145 was better. In other words, you need to fill the Q400 to make it any better environmentally - it's not a straight argument. The ATR beats both into a cocked hat, but its cruise speed is indeed a drawback.

I doubt it’s co-ordinated. Loganair has had loads of posts like this on LinkedIn over the past few months with their crew and staff really promoting the carrier.

Isn't this stuff about fuel burns all really rather missing the point? Several postings on here in recent days about companies not allowing their employees to fly at all and obliging them to use trains, yet there's a debate about the relative merits of a Q400 versus an Emb-145! The nuances of fuel burn differentials between one type and another are pretty irrelevant when anything with wings is perceived to be bad news for the environment. It's an argument that it's impossible to win in the court of public opinion beyond PPrune.

Some very profitable routes out there still unserved.

https://www.anna.aero/2020/10/23/fly...till-unserved/

If they're taking on the old Dash 8's/Q400's that were in service before, lets hope the technical problems are soted out. Flybe realilibity performance was a big problem before they went bust.

based on my experience of 60 flights a year over the previous 9 years I’d say tech issues were minor. I had one 5 hour delay down route due bird strike, 3 cancellations due weather and probably a handful of delays up to 2 hours due tech, staffing or weather issues.

Never seemed a particular issue for me and I’d be loathe to call that luck when my experience spanned 500 flights. Although I was on a route served once daily so I appreciate we’d more likely get an aircraft swap while a Belfast or Glasgow, for example, would be cancelled and pushed on to the next service.

crewmeal

Utter garbage.

TT, I’m not sure on what basis you feel able to make such a sweeping statement, but perhaps you’re talking about a different aeroplane to the one I used to fly. I flew it for 15 years, not out of choice, but because I couldn’t get off it and it was a bl***¥ nightmare. The number of delays I took ran into the high hundreds as aircraft were juggled by ops to try and avoid paying passenger compensation with delays rippling down the program, and dispatching under the MEL happened far too frequently. And don’t get me started on the ergonomics of operating the damn thing.

So I’m sorry, I have to agree with the previous post, but I guess it’s all a matter of perspective as to where you were sitting day to day.

BusterHot...just going by the CAA official stats. Everything else is just hearsay/conjecture or personal opinion/gripe.

I agree unless of course you've actually operated the aircraft in which case you'd be only too aware of what's its problems were....as for the CAA figures I'm sure you'll remember the old adage about stats and lies etc

New Regional Partnership
 

Loganair, Aurigny and Blue Islands announce partnership, creating the largest U.K regional airline, albeit individually owned and operated. With their individual niche markets and fairly strong (certainly in the cases of Aurigny and Loganair) local branding / reputation it will no doubt make Flybe's comeback even more challenging.

This is exactly what is needed.

Will Flybe 2.0 acquire/partner with Eastern and try to enter the market that way I wonder?

Makes things somewhat more difficult / interesting however the principal base is said to be BHX and aside of the Channel Islands, Aberdeen and Isle of Man they don't have a large presence there - but of course Flybe still has a little matter of Easyjet to compete with on the principal Scotland / BHX trunk routes.

The size of the operation that is indicated by staff numbers (new jobs created) I anticipate there'll be plenty to go at from BHX without going head to head with the new Loganair / Aurigny / Blue Islands alliance.

What routes from BHX are you thinking Flybe 2.0 will do? I can't think of any pressing need on any route that isn't already served.... I'm struggling to understand the business case.

Don’t think Flybe need to start panicking just yet given the Channel Islands lot have 8 ATRs between them, hardly a massive fleet to bargain with. I wouldn’t be surprised if Flybe complain to the anti competition people.

I think they’ll fly to ABZ, INV, GLA, EDI, BHD, AMS, CDG, round the Channel Islands and regional France in the summer.

Possibly NOC, NQY, Germany.

I think aggressive pricing will be Flybe’s method of retaking market share🤷‍♂️. Not great for the airlines but the consumers will get some good deals that may encourage them to start flying again.

STR, BER, HAM, LYS, MXP, TLS, NOC, BHD, AMS plus some seasonal French routes.

More than enough for a small fleet of around half a dozen DH4s to go at.

Whilst the Channel Island airlines do only have handful of aircraft, Blue Islands with 5 ATR and Aurigny with 3 ATR, 1 EMB190 and 2 or 3 DO228 its LM with its large fleet, that combined means the partnership has around 54 aircraft. A number that shouldn't be looked down on. Its funny in some ways how LM and Blue Islands were both Franchise partners of the original Flybe, would be somewhat ironic if Flybe 2.0 ended up joining in and somehow becoming part of it all BUT one of the smaller partners.

Not sure how a anti competition complaint would stand, SI have been working with GR for sometime, SI and LM have also been working together for some time, its just a case that now SI, GR and LM are all working together. So far States of Guernsey, the Government of Jersey and the Scottish Government clearly haven't had issue, so maybe it will just come down to those pesky English.

All very exciting and no doubt will benefit the consumer, whether or not thats through harsh price wars or through cooperation to ensure the regions are genuinely connected and who knows maybe Flybe 2.0 would fit in there somewhere?

wanna

Definitely think this is an anti Flybe alliance.

If it is, can you blame them? Better to work together than separately and out of the 3, LM and SI have both had their fingers burnt by Flybe.

Anyone old enough to have some perspective (l'm sure there are many) must be thinking that the Loganair/Aurigny/Blue Islands alliance looks a lot like British Regional Airlines and Flybe 2 is rather similar to Birmingham Executive Airlines. Plus ca change...

wanna

Not at all. Think it's a great move.

Looks like G-JECX had a return trip to BHX today using a Jersey training callsign.

I do hope we are not to have to expect a running commentary on every movement by the aircraft. It surely suffices to know they have aircraft and are continuing to prepare for operations ?

That is hardly fair. This is I believe the first training sortie by Flybe since their resurrection and as such worthy of note. Further sorties may be considered less worthy of comment.

I don't know if it is or it isn't the first. But it's not "new news" that they have an aircraft and that they are getting ready to start flying, which is all well and good in itself.

​​​ATNotts. Totally agree. FLYBE info on a Flybe thread, and solid data for a change. I'm booking as soon as I can...... I don't even care where the plane goes.... I know the agonies some of the crews have been through. Welcome back. Have a look at opposition fares and weep......some are higher than rail fares!

High fares are the norm for regional turboprops, low fares lead to bankruptcy. Zombie-Flybe will only have low fares til there's blood on the carpet and one survivor in market.

Dash 8, 31 inch seat pitch and quick to turn around against sardine-jet 29 inch seat pitch in claustrophobic 6 abreast and a mega-snail load/unload nightmare. Flybe is a breath of fresh air. Anyone remember the Tridents that did the domestic shuttles..... a real cattle - class - scum passenger experience they were. Mind you, I do still have a couple of the Cat 3 ties they used to hand out after an autoland.
I do hope FLYBE bring back the chocolates, we do miss them.

Well the Dash was a nightmare for me and a lot of people I know who used to hate flying on it. I would pay more to fly on a jet than a dash if I had the choice.

I’m curious why you think Flybe is a breath of fresh air when we know nothing of routes, pricing or business model or anything really? Are you part of the management that know something we don’t?

055166k

What a strange post. All I can say is that I did a day return LGW EDI LGW yesterday on EZY A320, full going North and 80% coming home and I’d take that over a dash 8 any day (for the record the flights were excellent, both arrived early and very friendly crews).
Also the comment about Tridents is misleading. The trident fuselage had a narrower cross section than a 737 and of course an A320 is an inch or two wider than a 737 (one of its USPs). I agree the Tridents were tight (flew on them many times) but they were definitely nicer to travel on than the Vanguards they replaced, which brings us back to your turboprop vs jet discussion. .

Atlantic Explorer

Just about sums up the whole thread. :ok:

Flybe Mk.2 appears to be "Marmite" on this thread. Some avidly anti - mostly because they either lost out when Mk.1 went down, or find the manner of their resurrection distasteful, and others wearing rose tinted glasses. Then there are some somewhere in the middle.

Nobody who is currently employed by Mk.2 would surely be stupid enough to disclose their plans, so everyone will just have to wait and see. I don't believe it'll be far into January before pans are revealed, then the armchair CEOs will be able to rip them apart or praise them to the hilt!

Couple of little bits of information in this article:

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/...first-aircraft

Flybe to lease 12 Q400 from NAC and are aiming to ultimately have a fleet of 32. Guess they'll be about half their previous size if this ends up coming to fruition.

Very much a we shall see situation of course...

12 seems a lot. The cynics will undoubtedly say that is so they have 6 to cover for tech issues!

& if that happens, New Flybe will have covered their back & have clauses in the leasing contracts that will pay them compensation from the lessors, due to downtime. The A/C will have to be delivered in excellent condition just as they had to be handed back by Flybe v1 - and capable of the cycles they'll be put through.

Flybe v2 will also have access to the tech records of all the previous Q400 fleet and will know which airframes were constantly going tech, which ones had a leak here, or a sensor fault there. the hope is these will not be chosen, or these things will have been replaced prior to leasing.

..& the leasing contracts will likely be on more favourable terms to Flybe v2 this time too. No leasing company wants their planes sat on the tarmac somewhere.

Mr Loganair said this week that business travel is really subdued and unlikely to come back. Q400 best suited to 'business' type routes, so where does that leave Flybe?

Id suggest up the proverbial creek without a rowing device.

Gosh, wonder why Mr Loganair chose to say that? :rolleyes:

In fairness, the article I read with those quotes from Loganair also had a quote from easyJet saying their business pax numbers from September 2021 weren't too different to their numbers in Feb 2020.

I guess they're two airlines operating in different markets, Loganair exclusively UK with easyJet more UK - Europe so it's perfectly possible both statements could be true.