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-   -   Flybe-V1 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637085-flybe-v1.html)

ATNotts 13th Aug 2021 15:03

I am guessing that there's been some cutting and pasting from application form templates used by the "old" Flybe - if the new enterprise is proposing a scattergun approach with 4 bases from the get-go then I'm afraid they're probably repeating the same mistakes as their predecessors.

willy wombat 13th Aug 2021 15:14

Indeed. Flybe never subscribed to the KISS principle.

Alteagod 13th Aug 2021 18:15

7 aircraft apperantly for BHD.

fjencl 13th Aug 2021 18:29

Any news on how many for BHX, MAN, SOU

southamptonavgeek 13th Aug 2021 19:29

Alteagod

Could I ask where you heard this please?

Flightrider 13th Aug 2021 21:27

I think we’re into wild rumour territory here. Best to wait and see.

cavokblues 13th Aug 2021 22:20

No idea how true all these rumours are.

But I'm sceptical that the current post Covid market is big enough for a new Flybe and Loganair's current route network.

willy wombat 13th Aug 2021 22:24

I heard 10 for SOU, one to operate and nine to cover for AOG etc

Jamie2009 14th Aug 2021 17:28

I think those aircraft numbers for bases are wildly optimistic given the location of the DASH sims and half the old DASH fleet have moved to new operators.

ATNotts 14th Aug 2021 17:59

There is more than a smidgen of cynicism in WW's post!

southamptonavgeek 23rd Aug 2021 11:00

According to Skyliner G-CLXC is due into Keflavik. Looks like Flybe could be disposing of their only aircraft?

RogueOne 23rd Aug 2021 14:13

I thought it was common knowledge, but G-CLXC (according to G-INFO) was "chartered" and not Flybe owned. Most likely for AOC or to satisfy other license approval requirements. With a slim possibility it could be used for currency for certain post-holders, albeit unlikely.

With the relaunch of Flybe v.2 imminent, I would suspect favourable leasing deals have been struck with lessors that have Q400s already in Flybe purple colours sat on the ground. That'll certainly save a bit of money than getting new airframes or repainting others. Plus v2 gets to pick which are the newest, best maintained airframes with the least amount of cycles until next checks..

Jamie2009 23rd Aug 2021 19:10

My guess is the former mortgaged DASHs that were reposted by the German bank and are Saarnbrucken now owned by the Irish lease company.

Buster the Bear 26th Aug 2021 22:54

Thyme Opco DH8D G-CLXC (1404) flew Keflavik to St John’s yesterday.

Appears to be heading the wrong way.

allan1987 27th Aug 2021 12:04

Looks to be be the 20 Q400 planes will start be being delivered to Flybe from October

https://www.flightglobal.com/airline...145212.article

Irish lessor Aergo Capital believes strengthening demand for domestic and regional aviation is driving customer interest in a package of 20 De Havilland Canada Dash 8-400s it acquired earlier this year.

Aergo took ownership of the former Flybe twin-turboprops in July, registering them to its special purpose vehicle, Wellington Leasing No 33, according to UK Civil Aviation Authority data.

G-PRPA is one of 20 Q400s acquired by Aergo Capital

But the lessor is already close to securing customers for all 20 aircraft. “Aergo Capital acquired 20 ex-FlyBe Q400s earlier this year and have found very strong demand for these aircraft across four continents.

“We have contracted, executed letters of intent or are in advanced negotiations for all 20 aircraft,” it says.

First deliveries are due in October, running through 2022, with pre-delivery maintenance already under way, says Aergo.

“We are now enjoying growing demand across our turboprop fleet which is driving strengthening lease rates and therefore underlying aircraft values.

“This is a reflection of demand for high-quality domestic and close regional flying in many markets globally, and especially within emerging markets, at a time when medium- and especially long-haul travel remains deeply subdued.”

SKOJB 27th Aug 2021 12:12

Possibly although I doubt all 20 will be delivered to new Flybe, not sure if any indications have been given on total numbers for the new start up!

Expressflight 27th Aug 2021 14:02

I can see nothing in that article which makes it particularly likely that Flybe will be the recipient of any of those 20 aircraft, let alone the whole fleet. Indeed, it intimates that the users will be a number of different operators.


oldart 28th Aug 2021 09:41

To Flybe or not to Flybe, that's the question. How many Q400's?

AirUK 29th Aug 2021 03:28

Flymaybe Mk.II…

Blackfriar 29th Aug 2021 07:55

cavokblues

In my experience, yes. BA 1-11s we’re slagged off by passengers in the 80s as was anything then with a G-Axxx registration. One horrified Gatwick passenger on a Jersey flight took one look at the aircraft from the terminal and described the HS-748 as a converted World War Two bomber.

ATNotts 29th Aug 2021 10:36

I disagree, more than ever these days people are concerned with price first, and reliability second. For many it is 'a plane'.

Despite the 'Flymaybee' jibes, neither me, and more so MrsATN who used them more frequently had serious punctuality issues

BA318 29th Aug 2021 12:45

If you search Flybe Delay on Twitter there are lots of comments from when they were operating. Even crew saying about delays… the name stuck for a reason.

“even the delays”


It varies on whether people chose a flight based on a plane. If someone flies the route more than once on two competitors they are likely to compare them. I know plenty of people who would then say I’m sticking with BA or Easyjet rather than the little thing Flybe took me on. Irrational yes but it happens.

ollie135 29th Aug 2021 13:13

Surely that's just an ex crew member being sentimental. I wasn't at Flybe all that long but on the 140 odd flights I operated I can only think of a couple which were significantly delayed or cancelled, barely 2 or 3 percent. I'm sure that other parts of the network were worse but certainly it was not a sea of delays and cancellations. We shall see what happens...

c52 30th Aug 2021 12:43

Of the various airliners I've flown on, I found both the prop aircraft (Jetstream, Do 328) to be significantly unpleasant. I'm sure the Dash 8 is equally best avoided. Among the jets, the back row on an F-70 was horrible, being noisy and almost windowless.

ZULUBOY 30th Aug 2021 21:53

BA318

In my circle of friends and family nobody would have a clue (or be interested in) what plane they were flying on when booking a flight or holiday

Alteagod 31st Aug 2021 08:01

Balkan Holidays to Bulgaria in the 80s kinds proves the theory price over plane tbh. Il18 and TU154s but a very cheap holiday.


Jamie2009 31st Aug 2021 09:48

I’d be surprised if you have a choice of competitors who don’t fly turboprops on a lot of the routes and certainly won’t be competing on BA routes. Easy will deploy the fleet to more profitable routes from the current emergency cash generating domestic routes which is ironically further damaging the regional airlines who will be left to compete with Flybe.
Average flight time was 58 mins for Flybe, not long to be sat on a TP…. Price and schedule are key and given they’re going to be debt free prices should be low.

I take it the slot grab conversation is over.

Jamie2009 31st Aug 2021 09:53

Expressflight

They’re painted Flybe and the airline is not being rebranded, that we know. They are the newer aircraft from the old fleet so makes perfect sense. I bet the deal was done months ago when the lease firm bought them. Would be interesting to know if Cyrus has an interest in that company.

domperry76 3rd Sep 2021 09:00

Let's just say it's my understanding that some of those Q400s will probably (the deal isn't signed off yet) end up with Flybe. Other airlines will also take a number.

Skipness One Foxtrot 3rd Sep 2021 15:33

ZULUBOY

True, except the repeat business is harder to come by if the turboprop experience is sub optimal. Having done LON-GLA/EDI/ABZ on every option available in the last 15 years, I tried flybe for the novelty of it but it would never, ever get my repeat business in that market with real jets as the alternative. The Q400 works well in niche routes up against the ATR, it's not a quality option up against jets, which ironically is why flybe made the horrible mistake of leasing expensive ERJs.

What's the top 10 routes for zombie flybe that don't have an incumbent operator? That's the proof of the pudding IMHO.

OzzyOzBorn 3rd Sep 2021 23:09

But it isn't as simple as 'which routes now have a new incumbent operator'. Frequency and capacity must also be factored in. A route such as MAN-SOU now flown once daily by Eastern ATR72 cannot be considered backfilled from the FlyBe operation of upto six Q400 departures per day. Likewise MAN-EXT, now operating less than once daily with Blue Islands. Many other 're-adopted' routes across the former FlyBe network also see this pattern of just one flight per day or fewer replicated. Obviously, covid-related demand supression is a major factor shaping the current regional networks, but as confidence in travel grows and interline opportunities open up again, additional frequencies will be required. Whether or not these can be offered by the new incumbents (who generally have very limited fleet availability) or whether there is space for a second operator to enter the market remains to be seen.

dc9-32 4th Sep 2021 05:49

Maybe the new Flybe will be wet leasing to other operators !

NorthEasterner 4th Sep 2021 08:51

Two of the aircraft will be leased to Connect Airlines based in Canada, from September, with the option of three more.

https://bit.ly/3yz8cM0?fbclid=IwAR1q...7OogOvmgOA7otw

willy wombat 4th Sep 2021 09:03

OzzyOzBorn

to be blunt, the likes of Blue Islands and Eastern may have “very limited fleet availability” but they’ve both got considerably more “fleet availability” than Flybe 2 has (and if you’re about to argue that Flybe 2 can add aircraft to its current fleet of zero, so can the others).

Flightrider 4th Sep 2021 10:08

There is surely a point here that backfill to the previous frequency and capacity levels of Flybe will only result in the same outcome. The market has changed massively in the time that they have been out of the game, and if anyone (including new Flybe) think that six Q400s a day between SOU and MAN is needed to serve the demand today, they are in for a nasty shock.

The size of the market today is being determined by passenger demand and not by artificial constraints on capacity created by any perceived lack of seats on Flybe routes.

And given how much these people are apparently spending on consultants to set up the airline, I very much doubt it will be debt free either !!

BA318 4th Sep 2021 10:19

Indeed. They have been going for a while now with no income while paying management, consultants, applying for their license, leasing the Q400 that has now gone. Plus they will need a huge ad & pr campaign on launch. The debt soon ads up. It will all depend how deep their pockets are. If they can go at it long enough to drive others off the routes they might have a chance.

southamptonavgeek 4th Sep 2021 10:56

NorthEasterner

Theirs are coming from Chorus, not Aergo.

cavokblues 4th Sep 2021 14:15

If aircraft are being delivered in the next few weeks shouldn't the airline be announcing their launch routes very soon and getting the website launched to start getting some money coming in the other way?

JSCL 4th Sep 2021 14:46

Knowing how web developers work, the very existence of https://staging.flybe.com/ and it being protected suggests that there is an imminent web launch coming.

OzzyOzBorn 4th Sep 2021 15:19

willy wombat

I actually agree with you. My post made no assertions about the fleet capability of what is currently an unknown quantity. But the point which I did make stands.


There is surely a point here that backfill to the previous frequency and capacity levels of Flybe will only result in the same outcome. The market has changed massively in the time that they have been out of the game, and if anyone (including new Flybe) think that six Q400s a day between SOU and MAN is needed to serve the demand today, they are in for a nasty shock.
Likewise, I made no assertions about specific optimal route frequency in a much-changed economic environment. But since you raise the issue, I do contend that the sweetspot is at least a frequency which provides for day return business travel on both of the routes which I cited as examples. Given current frequency offered on routes such as these, opportunities for regional expansion do exist as air travel confidence returns and interline becomes more feasible once again. On your point that increasing frequencies "will only result in the same outcome [as FlyBe 1]" ... I simply disagree with you. FlyBe 1's demise arose from a number of issues including excessively priced lease agreements for Embraer Jets and marginal routes between a number of points on their network. However, not all of their routes were basket cases, and the two I cited in my examples were certainly not responsible for the carrier's ultimate fate. Without access to the books I cannot insist that they were profitable, but I would be quite surprised if they were not.


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