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-   -   Flybe-V1 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637085-flybe-v1.html)

Snr 24th Nov 2020 14:51

"On the evening of 3 March 2020, the directors of Flybe were informed by Virgin that, as a result of the adverse impact of COVID-19 coronavirus on its own bookings, it was no longer able to provide further funding to Connect or Flybe."

Thank you to Sandy78 for pointing out the document. I stand by my original comment. 24 hours prior to the collapse, Virgin pulled out of providing any additional funding, which had been agreed back in January. There were many reasons Flybe/Connect failed, but the final nail in the coffin was Virgin (rightly) choosing mainline over the "subsidiary".

davidjpowell 27th Nov 2020 07:53

This thread is confusing. I think it would not be wrong to say Flybe was not in a good state in December. It had hope from the new ownership structure, but it was not out of the woods.

Covid then came along and I do recall press releases about booking falling off a cliff. On top of that the new owners bookings were presumably seeing a similar pattern and it would have been only a matter of time before they had to prioritise funding their mainline airline survival.

Whether it was Virgin or one of the other investors it was going to happen. The investors did not put the final nail in the coffin. Covid did.

robby239 28th Nov 2020 22:17

what will happen to the former Flybe MPL cadets?

Jamesair1 29th Nov 2020 08:46

Not only caused by Covid, as soon as the general public gets a hint of an airline in trouble (and their money being lost), the speculation rapidly turns into a fact with forward bookings grinding to a shuddering halt.

fjencl 2nd Dec 2020 21:27

Today's update
Flybe's return to the skies moves a step closer
Cyrus Capital applies for operating licence for the airline and pledges to 'restore essential regional connectivity

Flitefone 9th Dec 2020 15:00

...and a step further away perhaps with the BACF announcement today re Southampton routes..

cavokblues 9th Dec 2020 15:17

I'm not sure - BACF's announcement is very much just a weekend summer operation only. I, personally, would be surprised if Flybe is back in the skies by when the flights end next October....! Never say never...

airsouthwest 12th Dec 2020 23:12

It seems EY has updated it's document. https://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey...-proposals.pdf

It previously said that Virgin & Cyrus wanted to put more cash into Flybe but Stobart pulled out, now it says Stobart had pulled out, then Virgin did and Cyrus was considering it's position.

Any idea why this has been changed?

HH6702 13th Dec 2020 15:39

maybe as Cyrus now owns the name they have requested the change before they relaunch

shamrock7seal 14th Dec 2020 08:43

So debts or liabilities basically total GBP427m

How on earth is this going to work?

JobsaGoodun 14th Dec 2020 12:12

If I'm not mistaken, the debts remain with the original business and therefore probably aren't picked up by the new company, Thyme OpCo.

airsouthwest 7th Jan 2021 00:42


It goes to show how much damage a certain CEO did. Flybe had £163m in spare cash in 2016. By 2019 that was almost gone and Connect Airways kept it limping on for another 14 months.

biddedout 7th Jan 2021 08:06

This damage. I remember him boasting about the 5Bn bit. Shortly after that he invited Digby Jones onto the board. :rolleyes:

airsouthwest 11th Jan 2021 01:19

I was referring to C.O.W but yes that Embraer deal never helped, Saad did a good job offloading it but why Republic only took 20 aircraft when they made Flybe take on 24 of their Q400s made no sense. Look back it's easy to see what could have been done better, obviously Flybe should have scaled back and offloaded the E195s faster. The issue was it never seemed to know it's business model. It was meant to be an airline for business people but it's offering was rubbish. Dirty old cabins with seats that didn't match the purple interior, bare threaded carpets, staff uniforms that looked cheap and the 'Cafe Flybe' menu was a joke. Flybe should have really taken some inspiration from Porter Airlines who seem to have a fairly strong business. Instead they tried to be a business airline, ski airline, a charter airline and a tourist airline along with a low cost airline to match Easyjet/Ryanair (when they are completely different) all in one go. The pricing was often stupid £65 Exeter to London City when an airline like EasyJet would only charge £29.99.

Don't get me wrong I love Flybe it was a great airline to work for but the business has been on a loose footing ever since they took on BA Connect in 2007 which is one of the biggest mistakes they ever made, they expanded too fast in all the wrong places, bought completely the wrong type of aircraft, bought airlines or took them over that financially were on their last legs anyway. Top that off with the 2008 financial crisis, Icelandic volcano delays, French ATC strikes, & Brexit it was clear that any further crisis would topple them, yet the management just sat back. COW sold off all the valuable assets such as the hangar in Exeter, she also sold aircraft Flybe owned to leasing companies(which should have just been sold off completely), extended leases on Q400s the airline didn't need the list goes on and on...

AirportPlanner1 11th Jan 2021 06:57

£65 EXT-LCY doesnít sound too bad at all to me, given it was up against the peak train it should actually have been more. £30 is unrealistic and EZY on a route like that is fantasy. Perhaps a good assessment then of the overall faults.

fjencl 11th Jan 2021 10:56

Are we likely to see this year 2021 the opening up of flybe2 .......

cavokblues 11th Jan 2021 11:20

Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 10965242)
Flybe should have scaled back and offloaded the E195s faster

To be fair I think they tried everything to rid themselves of those aircraft but they were tied in to those contracts and concluded it was better to fly them and at least try and make some money for them, rather than having them sat on the ground.

Like every airline failure the company had bad decision compounded by bad decision over several years. They just had too many aircraft and no control over the size of their fleet.

virginblue 11th Jan 2021 11:45

Originally Posted by airsouthwest (Post 10965242)
Flybe should have really taken some inspiration from Porter Airlines who seem to have a fairly strong business. Instead they tried to be a business airline, ski airline, a charter airline and a tourist airline along with a low cost airline to match Easyjet/Ryanair

Porter has also expandend into leisure/ski/tourist markets - I am not really sure this really is the difference between the two.

cavokblues 11th Jan 2021 14:09

I think Flybe did, to a degree, have a similar strategy to Porter with their operations out of City airport, where did they quite well.

They were obviously a much larger airline than Porter. Their problem was a lot of their trunk routes elsewhere didn't make much money. And if they did they were always in danger of a easyJet or Ryanair coming along, with a much lower cost base, and stealing their market.

With the right fleet selection, and free or ridiculous lease agreements, there probably is a bit of money to be made replicating a bit of Flybe's old route network. It's just never going to be a huge money spinner IMO.

BA318 11th Jan 2021 14:20


Porter are more like BA Cityflyer. They seem to target slightly higher end tourist markets in the downtime on their business routes and they offer an onboard service and a more premium approach.

FlyBe on the other hand tried to be everything to everyone - a business airline, a cheap airline, a holiday airline and obviously failed at that. I still think FlyBe missed so many opportunities. It started flying from LCY and went up against BA on the routes rather than operating other routes - there is a gap for services to smaller Scandinavian cities, French towns for second home owners (similar to where they flew from SOU).

Albert Hall 11th Jan 2021 17:26

I think Flybe did, to a degree, have a similar strategy to Porter with their operations out of City airport, where did they quite well
Flybe's operations at LCY, and the LHR services, were an utter calamity. I am not sure where you get the idea that they "did quite well" but they did not. BHD was the only route at LCY which was any good and that only did OK because of an overall deal on airport charges that forced Flybe to fly lots of other LCY routes to generate volume. The rest and particularly EDI-LCY were complete basketcases. If Flybe 2 want to replicate Flybe 1, I hope they have deep pockets.

airsouthwest 12th Jan 2021 08:03

I know it's a fantasy because I just said it for comparison. The point being Flybe was well known for being more expensive than other low cost airlines.

ATNotts 12th Jan 2021 08:11

But FlyBe were never set up as a low cost airline, the routes they appear to have done best on were those where they weren't competing with a low cost carrier, or were in code share agreements with.

airsouthwest 12th Jan 2021 08:14


I would agree with that, Cityflyer are very efficient in terms of aircraft utilisation & network planning. Where is Flybe just seem to open and close routes for the fun of it, considering it was a 40 year old business it still seemed very amateurish in places.

For others saying it was like Porter it's not. It had flights out of City, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Southend & even Luton I believe. A similar picture across other parts of the UK where it was serving two airports very close to each other in the name of 'connectivity' rather than having everything at a single airport.

cavokblues 12th Jan 2021 08:15

Originally Posted by Albert Hall (Post 10965791)
Flybe's operations at LCY, and the LHR services, were an utter calamity. I am not sure where you get the idea that they "did quite well" but they did not.

Fair point, mine was purely anecdotal and I assumed because the Edinburgh, Exeter, Amsterdam routes had been there for 6 years or so they must have been making some money on them, but not sure that's even true with Flybe. I recall reading something that when Saad came in 59% of their routes were loss making!

airsouthwest 12th Jan 2021 13:46


Errm I think you might want to do a bit of research i.e https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/artic...s-flybe/150963

Even the adverts back in 2010 make out it's a 'low cost airline'. I worked & trained with Flybe for 5 years so I know what it's business model was and the majority of the issues it had.

airsouthwest 12th Jan 2021 13:49

Yeah a lot of the routes made a loss and subsequently got axed or changed. Newquay to Gatwick survived under the government support scheme. I think if Saad had more flexibility he would have just paid to get rid of the E195s and scaled down the business a bit. It was a shame he left in 2016 although I suspect he left because he wasn't given enough freedom to sort out the business as he would have liked too.

AirportPlanner1 12th Jan 2021 14:53

Was EDI-LCY a basket case? Thatís the one I took a few times and always seemed to do well for loads and as an outsider Iíd have said fares werenít too low either. Iíve seen it said a lot that BHD-LCY was a real winner.

The logic and strategy of the LCY network at the start seemed sound but clearly some routes didnít work at all - some a surprise, some less so - and some were trimmed.

But the whole London strategy quickly became muddled and the LCY network itself represented a u-turn. They had quit the London market having sold the LGW slots and were focusing on the regions. Fine. But then they ended up being pressured/paid(?) to keep the NQY-LGW route. And then largely reinstating the old LGW network into LCY. And then added a couple of routes into STN which didnít last long including a bizarrely timed double-daily to NCL where both flight were off-peak. And they had the Stobart franchise operation in their name at SEN, plus a short-lived DUB route that was operated directly outside the franchise. And Loganair into STN which was also a franchise.

So from a long-standing LGW operation they quickly went to dribs and drabs at multiple airports.

allan1987 12th Jan 2021 17:34

I thought the BHD and EDI to LCY went quite well, also since also with using Stobart Air's E190 on both routes

TartinTon 12th Jan 2021 17:39

AMS was the only route that made any money ex-LCY (and not very much at that)...not conjecture...fact.

CWL757 15th Jan 2021 00:12

11 ex Flybe Q400s going over to be tankers in Canada.

biddedout 15th Jan 2021 08:35

That will be a really good use for them. The huge amount of extra power will be very comforting for firefighting pilots operating very low level.

SKOJB 15th Jan 2021 10:15


Rather appropriate you might say as BE had been fire fighting for several years!

CWL757 15th Jan 2021 12:52

Oooh that's quite a burn.

Sorry ill see myself out 😁

CabinCrewe 15th Jan 2021 12:58

cant believe this thread still going. BE is gone and never to be seen again in any shape or form!

ETOPS 17th Jan 2021 12:36

I would'nt be that sure ;)

Albert Hall 17th Jan 2021 17:29

Exactly. That's what should happen - as the more you hear of the restart plans the more crazy it sounds - but it may well turn out not to be that way.

jmccrew 22nd Jan 2021 13:06


allan1987 22nd Jan 2021 13:47

G-CLXC DHC-8-400 has been registered to THYME OPCO

Expressflight 22nd Jan 2021 14:10

…... and the nature of business as stated by Thyme Opco in its Companies House registration is Scheduled Passenger Air Transport.

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