Flybe-V1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 37
Flybe-V1
"On the evening of 3 March 2020, the directors of Flybe were informed by Virgin that, as a result of the adverse impact of COVID-19 coronavirus on its own bookings, it was no longer able to provide further funding to Connect or Flybe."
Thank you to Sandy78 for pointing out the document. I stand by my original comment. 24 hours prior to the collapse, Virgin pulled out of providing any additional funding, which had been agreed back in January. There were many reasons Flybe/Connect failed, but the final nail in the coffin was Virgin (rightly) choosing mainline over the "subsidiary".
Thank you to Sandy78 for pointing out the document. I stand by my original comment. 24 hours prior to the collapse, Virgin pulled out of providing any additional funding, which had been agreed back in January. There were many reasons Flybe/Connect failed, but the final nail in the coffin was Virgin (rightly) choosing mainline over the "subsidiary".
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Doncaster
Age: 48
Posts: 187
This thread is confusing. I think it would not be wrong to say Flybe was not in a good state in December. It had hope from the new ownership structure, but it was not out of the woods.
Covid then came along and I do recall press releases about booking falling off a cliff. On top of that the new owners bookings were presumably seeing a similar pattern and it would have been only a matter of time before they had to prioritise funding their mainline airline survival.
Whether it was Virgin or one of the other investors it was going to happen. The investors did not put the final nail in the coffin. Covid did.
Covid then came along and I do recall press releases about booking falling off a cliff. On top of that the new owners bookings were presumably seeing a similar pattern and it would have been only a matter of time before they had to prioritise funding their mainline airline survival.
Whether it was Virgin or one of the other investors it was going to happen. The investors did not put the final nail in the coffin. Covid did.
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: London
Posts: 202
Not only caused by Covid, as soon as the general public gets a hint of an airline in trouble (and their money being lost), the speculation rapidly turns into a fact with forward bookings grinding to a shuddering halt.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 189
I'm not sure - BACF's announcement is very much just a weekend summer operation only. I, personally, would be surprised if Flybe is back in the skies by when the flights end next October....! Never say never...
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 172
It seems EY has updated it's document. https://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey...-proposals.pdf
It previously said that Virgin & Cyrus wanted to put more cash into Flybe but Stobart pulled out, now it says Stobart had pulled out, then Virgin did and Cyrus was considering it's position.
Any idea why this has been changed?
It previously said that Virgin & Cyrus wanted to put more cash into Flybe but Stobart pulled out, now it says Stobart had pulled out, then Virgin did and Cyrus was considering it's position.
Any idea why this has been changed?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North of the M4
Posts: 297
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10693875
This damage. I remember him boasting about the 5Bn bit. Shortly after that he invited Digby Jones onto the board.
This damage. I remember him boasting about the 5Bn bit. Shortly after that he invited Digby Jones onto the board.
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 172
I was referring to C.O.W but yes that Embraer deal never helped, Saad did a good job offloading it but why Republic only took 20 aircraft when they made Flybe take on 24 of their Q400s made no sense. Look back it's easy to see what could have been done better, obviously Flybe should have scaled back and offloaded the E195s faster. The issue was it never seemed to know it's business model. It was meant to be an airline for business people but it's offering was rubbish. Dirty old cabins with seats that didn't match the purple interior, bare threaded carpets, staff uniforms that looked cheap and the 'Cafe Flybe' menu was a joke. Flybe should have really taken some inspiration from Porter Airlines who seem to have a fairly strong business. Instead they tried to be a business airline, ski airline, a charter airline and a tourist airline along with a low cost airline to match Easyjet/Ryanair (when they are completely different) all in one go. The pricing was often stupid £65 Exeter to London City when an airline like EasyJet would only charge £29.99.
Don't get me wrong I love Flybe it was a great airline to work for but the business has been on a loose footing ever since they took on BA Connect in 2007 which is one of the biggest mistakes they ever made, they expanded too fast in all the wrong places, bought completely the wrong type of aircraft, bought airlines or took them over that financially were on their last legs anyway. Top that off with the 2008 financial crisis, Icelandic volcano delays, French ATC strikes, & Brexit it was clear that any further crisis would topple them, yet the management just sat back. COW sold off all the valuable assets such as the hangar in Exeter, she also sold aircraft Flybe owned to leasing companies(which should have just been sold off completely), extended leases on Q400s the airline didn't need the list goes on and on...
Don't get me wrong I love Flybe it was a great airline to work for but the business has been on a loose footing ever since they took on BA Connect in 2007 which is one of the biggest mistakes they ever made, they expanded too fast in all the wrong places, bought completely the wrong type of aircraft, bought airlines or took them over that financially were on their last legs anyway. Top that off with the 2008 financial crisis, Icelandic volcano delays, French ATC strikes, & Brexit it was clear that any further crisis would topple them, yet the management just sat back. COW sold off all the valuable assets such as the hangar in Exeter, she also sold aircraft Flybe owned to leasing companies(which should have just been sold off completely), extended leases on Q400s the airline didn't need the list goes on and on...
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 39
Posts: 417
£65 EXT-LCY doesn’t sound too bad at all to me, given it was up against the peak train it should actually have been more. £30 is unrealistic and EZY on a route like that is fantasy. Perhaps a good assessment then of the overall faults.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 189
Originally Posted by airsouthwest
Flybe should have scaled back and offloaded the E195s faster
Like every airline failure the company had bad decision compounded by bad decision over several years. They just had too many aircraft and no control over the size of their fleet.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,139
Originally Posted by airsouthwest
Flybe should have really taken some inspiration from Porter Airlines who seem to have a fairly strong business. Instead they tried to be a business airline, ski airline, a charter airline and a tourist airline along with a low cost airline to match Easyjet/Ryanair
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 189
I think Flybe did, to a degree, have a similar strategy to Porter with their operations out of City airport, where did they quite well.
They were obviously a much larger airline than Porter. Their problem was a lot of their trunk routes elsewhere didn't make much money. And if they did they were always in danger of a easyJet or Ryanair coming along, with a much lower cost base, and stealing their market.
With the right fleet selection, and free or ridiculous lease agreements, there probably is a bit of money to be made replicating a bit of Flybe's old route network. It's just never going to be a huge money spinner IMO.
They were obviously a much larger airline than Porter. Their problem was a lot of their trunk routes elsewhere didn't make much money. And if they did they were always in danger of a easyJet or Ryanair coming along, with a much lower cost base, and stealing their market.
With the right fleet selection, and free or ridiculous lease agreements, there probably is a bit of money to be made replicating a bit of Flybe's old route network. It's just never going to be a huge money spinner IMO.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BMA
Posts: 749
virginblue
Porter are more like BA Cityflyer. They seem to target slightly higher end tourist markets in the downtime on their business routes and they offer an onboard service and a more premium approach.
FlyBe on the other hand tried to be everything to everyone - a business airline, a cheap airline, a holiday airline and obviously failed at that. I still think FlyBe missed so many opportunities. It started flying from LCY and went up against BA on the routes rather than operating other routes - there is a gap for services to smaller Scandinavian cities, French towns for second home owners (similar to where they flew from SOU).
Porter are more like BA Cityflyer. They seem to target slightly higher end tourist markets in the downtime on their business routes and they offer an onboard service and a more premium approach.
FlyBe on the other hand tried to be everything to everyone - a business airline, a cheap airline, a holiday airline and obviously failed at that. I still think FlyBe missed so many opportunities. It started flying from LCY and went up against BA on the routes rather than operating other routes - there is a gap for services to smaller Scandinavian cities, French towns for second home owners (similar to where they flew from SOU).
