You just have to laugh. This was an airline which in its first incarnation had something like four different colour schemes on the go at the time it ceased trading as each new CEO introduced one. It goes bankrupt, restarts and the first thing the next CEO does is come up with another new colour scheme. What's the point? If you were going to change the brand in its entirety then I can understand why you would need a new scheme, but this is just a continuation of the previous comedy sketch.

This is far from a continuation, it’s a fresh start, a reset and a new business. All the past terrible business decisions wiped clean. I like the new paint scheme - keep it simple. It’s going to be an interesting few months

I don't disagree that it's an interesting few months ahead, but I disagree with the reset and a new business. If that was genuinely the case, you wouldn't have painted Flybe down the side of the 'plane. But they very clearly have.

When I finished at Flybe two years ago there were 5 different colour shemes on the Q400 fleet.
Blue and white, purple/ yellow/ red / white, new purple and white, old Brussels blue fin, old Continental airlines.
I hoped to get a photo of all 5 on stands 1 to 5 at SOU but never saw that, only saw 4 in a row.

Jamie2009

Yeah try telling that to all the people who got burnt and lost money due to the previous Flybe.

I agree with Albert Hall, it’s just laughable. If anything, the ‘new’ flybe should be running a mile from the old one in terms of marketing and branding.

It is bizarre. How many other businesses have been relaunched from bankrupt predecessors with the same name and similar branding? Especially ones which had such a notable ending. They seem to think there is value in the brand. I am not so sure.

The only airline examples I can think of are in the US and they didn’t last - Pan Am, Eastern.

If this lot get cracking and in 5 years time they are still in business, I'll take my hat off to them....until then....

I can think of many, though not necessarily businesses with a high public profile, though there have been several retailers that have been bought out of administration as a "pre-pack" have royally shat over the creditors of the former business. Adding "2021" to the former business name normally does the trick.

It's immoral, but it happens every day of the week. If the new airline has the goodwill of creditors such as airports, fuel suppliers, Eurocontrol and the like then that's half the battle. For passengers, if the offer (price and schedule) is right most, but not all, will happily pay up and fly.

A good friend of mine, with a lot of experience in the industry said to me at the time, with the crazy leasing structure in place due to past Walker Trust dealings, they never stood a chance. The only way that company could have survived was to shut down and start again. They had to shake of those legacy leases and aircraft and it was the only way. The COVID 19 Pandemic came right in the middle of the event, it was going to happen anyway. It's what has delayed the whole restart. Fundamentally, if it wasn't for those outrageous leases, the airline was a sound business. I wish it well and hope they can get back as many of the superb pilots and cabin crew they had before back into the skies soon. The Q400 is by far a better aeroplane than the other regional turboprops out there. I wish them well.

RVF750, I'm going to call you out yet again for peddling this line about the Walker leases. It simply is not true.

I'm not sure how accurate that is. The costs of the Embraers were certainly outrageous - but I'm fairly certain if you go through the accounts and remove the lease costs the airline still loses money for the last few years.

The main issue with the lease agreements on the Dash 8's was they left the airline in a position where they had no control over the size of the fleet and were committed to operating 70+ aircraft when they didn't really have anywhere to operate them. Hence the new bases which were tried in the last few years, Bournemouth, Liverpool etc - they were desperate to fly the aircraft somewhere to try to limit loss.

Fundamentally the leases were signed by the management. The leases were onerous but I think it was the outrageous management which fundamentally lead to the airline's demise.

Cavokblues, thank you. The largest single issue was the huge Embraer commitment which tied the airline into a lot of expensive aeroplanes that it did not need and had to go through all sorts of hoops to try to escape. There were a hundred and one other challenges, mistakes, errors and misjudgements which contributed to Flybe's eventual demise. Heathrow was one, and it's interesting to see that it is apparently part of the new plan, although the bmi remedy slots have been handed back for this winter season.

Getting a strange feeling of deja vu here. Who cares! It’s all history and it’s not as if any of us know the full picture but are fully aware of how it came to a demise.

The new company should be mindful of the past mistakes but they’re unlikely to be repeated.

onwards and upwards….

I can see the launch including codeshares with virgin and it would really lay down the gauntlet if they went after the oil contracts from eastern / Logan although I doubt they’ll have the capacity at the start.

Throw down the gauntlet? Have you already forgotten how it ended last time Flybe went after Loganair.

I agree that going after an established carrier such as Loganair would be a very poor strategy, but as far as we're concerned at the minute, the new airline is probably being (relatively) generously funded by Cyrus. The "old" company was already on its knees by the time of the Loganair/Eastern debacle. Unless Flybe want to be competed against from all sides, it will be very interesting to see whether they "team up" with LM/SI or T3/GR.

Does Loganair receive a subsidy from the Scottish Government for route development?

No more than what is available to others. Such subsidy would be technically illegal state aid and likely to cause issues if it wasn’t given transparently and fairly. Hence why Ryanair is constantly in court. They do have PSO routes which probably help keep the budget healthy.

​​​​​​Surely since the UK left the EU the government can pretty well do what it wants regarding state aid.

No - carried over into UK law. Also comes into WTO considerations - see the various Boeing and Airbus scuffles.

Dorking

..until then we'll have to listen to the nonsense spouted by all the naysayers on here. CAN WE NOW PLEASE be happy for those people who might get their jobs back, and the 100s of jobs this new airline will not only create, but also support at all the airports they chose to operate to.

Big thumbs up to all involved.

Jamie2009

Exactly. This is Flybe Ltd, new company, new owners, & despite the same name, all the old legacy decisions and mistakes now sit with the old company - which is Flybe Realisations Ltd for anyone keeping score (paying attention)

Yep as said all EU law was carried over into UK law so until repealed it will still apply. And other countries can still object as the WTO example shows.

RogueOne

Normally I d ignore your rant but since you've quoted me so here goes...everyone is entitled to their opinion..such opinions are honestly held and just as valid as yours and just as valid to put forward..If you don't like what you read read you scroll past. Instead you reacted like a child in a playground...jog on

I think if you are expecting large numbers of people whose pension partly depended on Flybe from the BRAL scheme to “live and let live”, then you have another think coming. Many will find the presence of a renewed Flybe backed by the same venture capitalist which was in the privileged position of taking security over many assets and has already received big payouts from the administrator to be deeply distasteful.

You may argue that this is capitalism and a good thing. They would argue it is the unacceptable face of capitalism which has wiped out large aspects of their pensions for which they had worked in good faith.

You are 100% correct. The people at the financial heart of the 'new' Flybe pulled off an asset stripping exercise and managed to dump their obligations to the BRAL pensioners in the process when they shut down 'old' Flybe.

Those who are cheering on the new company seem unwilling or unable to understand that those same financial wide boys are gearing up to repeat the whole process.
All of this is technically legal but morally repugnant.

southamptonavgeek

Looks like it would be a LM / SI / GR team up with the codeshare SI, GR and LM seem to have going. Or maybe T3 would be easy pickings for the new flybe?

https://www.cityam.com/dave-pflieger...mpression=true

Ravn Air? Sounds just the manhttps://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/08...utive-a-bonus/

You forgot to cut and paste the part about Ravn filing for bankruptcy due to a global pandemic and the fact it restarted in 2020 under the same name but different business behind it…. Sounds familiar.

Clearly this guys worked with Cyrus a lot, he’s been mentioned in the companies filings at companies house for the last few months.

I suppose the question is, how many of those in the "startup space" (don't you just love business :mad:) are still going?

Onceagain, negativity from amateurs

Starting an airline, and achieving consistent profitability is tough. The record of past small airlines is not particularly great. I wish Flybe well, but being a bit wary seems to go with the territory

Amateur yes, but not in business, and curiously the airline industry is a business. Good thing is that this gent has history in the industry and isn't just a bean (pardon the pun) counter brought in from an unrelated sector. That rarely ends well whatever the sector.

The question is, is there a 'startup space' ? What is flybe mk2 proposing to provide which isn't already being provided by Loganair or Eastern? Are they planning to use planes which are markedly more economical or of a better size? I haven't been convinced by the supporters on this thread.

As SWBKCB highlighted the people involved here are not the sort to lose anything. They will know every trick in the book to protect themselves.

Thank goodness for that, I was worried that Flybe2 might struggle like many other startup’s but that is reassuring!

inOban

And what's to stop Eastern, Logan, Blue Islands and Aurigny teaming up to try and suppress any start up space? Loganair already has code shares with Blue Islands, Blue Islands with Aurigny and Loganair, wouldn't be to far fetched to include Eastern in all of this and then one united front v flybe mk2. Lets face it of the 4, 3 have directly been burned and Aurigny are desperate to make some money and not having Flybe to compete with wouldn't be a bad thing.

Competition and Markets Authority?

We have competition laws and authorities which would probably need to approve any such collaboration. I doubt it would be approved on the basis that 4 carriers didn’t want a 5th joining the market. However they could probably codeshare or have some kind of frequent flyer partnership without much fuss.

Eastern seem a bit of a basket case. As soon as any other operator appears they drop the route, and it feels like their schedules change on a weekly basis so I’m not sure they add anything anyway. Probably the easiest carrier for Flybe to target but then Eastern haven’t made money for a while and Flybe flying bigger planes on the same routes will probably just lose even more.

If correct, this will help Flybe’s start up!

https://apple.news/ARfLifsTJRo2iAsP_X2uV9w

Yep, APD cut for uk regional flights👍