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Albert Hall 12th Apr 2021 21:11

Originally Posted by Jamie2009 (Post 11026604)
Albert Hall

Whoís left the business out of interest? Which posts not people?

Chief Technical Officer, Director of Maintenance and Director of Safety/Security/Compliance. Not sure those were their exact job titles, but three have all left recently. From what I know, there's an obvious / strong personal reason why one has jumped ship but the same drivers are not present for the others.

Going back to the debate, Flybe's representative at the CAA hearing said - and I quote:

The slots are essential to the business. Without them, there is simply no business. We can't operate at Heathrow without slots. We can't operate at Schiphol without slots there. And so on.
Without them, there is simply no business. There is always a danger in taking a single quote out of context but I think that says quite enough. Pretty much the whole argument put forward to the CAA to keep the original Flybe licence alive came down to slots.

SKOJB 12th Apr 2021 22:07

This whole thread is becoming slightly boring as its very obvious that there will be no BE mk2 and instead is a transaction to recover huge financial sums from LHR slots

Sandy78 12th Apr 2021 22:51

It's all slightly amusing! Very nicely polarised!
Just to get a few things straight in my mind, didn't Cyrus (through connect) mortgage the LHR slots to finance Flybe? Wouldn't that be a good reason to want to keep hold of them aside from starting up a new/old airline? Also, if Cyrus get to hang on to them, can they just sell them to anyone at anytime? Aren't they domestic only? My knowledge is limited on the opaque world of slot trading!

Finally, Cyrus have past (very lucrative) history with Virgin America, I would have thought the scenario that played out in the US would be a motivator in any new venture the two guys at the top get involved with.

Skipness One Foxtrot 13th Apr 2021 00:18

If it's no big deal why are you so very obviously angry at what happened to Air Southwest? Surely another airline would simply take their place? Well no, clearly not, and you know that. And if Loganair go bust, that's just like buses really, as another airline will launch services in their place tomorrow. Stornoway being the Heathrow of the North......?

Just like Plymouth, I mean that's a bustling regional airport? Right? Super simple as Newquay went from strenght to strenght? Er no.

You're over-simplyfying things, and as for a post COVID UK market, no one knows what that's going to look like, and while I welcome competition, as I said, I don't welcome a debt free Zombie Flybe capacity dumping simply to build market share and bump off the competition weakened by the last year. That's not leading to lower prices for anyone in the medium term. Time will tell.

ATNotts 13th Apr 2021 08:00


How you can in all confidence make such a statement is totally beyond me. The ONLY PEOPLE in any position to make such assertion are Cyrus, Thyme Op-Co and their employees. If you were one of the latter, then divulging such information would be unprofessional at best, at worse subject to legal consequences for breeching commercial confidentiality.

cavokblues 13th Apr 2021 09:49

I'm probably doing 2+2=5 here but I wonder if there is any connection between the rumours Mesa Air want to get involved in a European carrier and the new Flybe?

Mesa were sniffing around Flybe a few years ago I seem to recall.

JobsaGoodun 13th Apr 2021 10:27

If Jamie2009 is correct then I'd suggest the link is Virgin America. Wiki (whether you believe it or not) says that Dave Pflieger was involved in setting up Virgin America at a time when Cyrus Capital as one of the original investors.

Jamie2009 13th Apr 2021 10:35

Itís in the filings at companies house

Albert Hall 13th Apr 2021 11:46

He's been involved for many months. Must be first public mention of it but he has certainly been around for a while and the link is with Cyrus from Virgin America. He was described to me as very knowledgeable about aircraft and technical but not everyone's cup of tea. To be fair I guess that is not unusual in senior roles though, and that was one person's view alone.

ATNotts 13th Apr 2021 11:55

I have had several bosses down the years who were extremely knowledgeable, but also obnoxious. Technically or financially competent people aren't always the easiest to work with or for.

Jamie2009 13th Apr 2021 18:28

Flybe is reborn. Thyme Opco has just been officially renamed......

fjencl 13th Apr 2021 18:43

So what happens next ?

cavokblues 13th Apr 2021 19:02

I suspect it all depends on their appeal against the CAA's decision to revoke their OL.

jethro15 13th Apr 2021 19:14


toledoashley 14th Apr 2021 06:56


Wasn’t it the case that they were waiting for that to be resolved before changing the name?

jamestkirk 14th Apr 2021 14:44

If it does get going again, calling it Flybe is nothing short of corporate self harm.

good luck with a relaunch but for the love of god rebrand.

commit aviation 14th Apr 2021 14:50

Reborn Flybe plans summer restart | Travel Weekly

More a PR piece than any new details. Will be interesting to see how they get on.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs previously discussed, I imagine that the Dash8 with it's low cost base and extra seats compared to the E145 might fair ok in these markets.
However on the key routes where EZY are competing with an Airbus, maybe less favourably. No doubt BE will look to operate more frequencies to appeal to the business traveller but without the low cost mass market element, I imagine they could lose out.
I wish them well and hope I am proved wrong.

Whispering Giant 14th Apr 2021 15:09

Sale of Flybe to Thyme Opco completed, and Thyme Opco as of last night had already changed there name to Flybe.


cavokblues 14th Apr 2021 15:42


I could be wrong but I think the rename was more to do with the sale of the assets by EY rather than a sign their appeal against the CAA's decision has been successful. If you read the CAA's report, they're clear that the it's the old company, now called FBE Realisations, which has to meet the financial tests not Thyme / Flybe 2.0 to be considered for the OL. They very clearly state the OL is not something which can be transferred as an asset.

Flybe's own argument at the CAA hearing said: "Removing Flybe’s OL would jeopardise the sale of Flybe to Thyme OpCo and, with it, the potential benefits for the UK economy." I think it's a fair bet the entire restart hinges on them getting the OL back.

In terms of an appeal being successful against CAA, would a lot of their recent activity - i.e. aircraft being registered etc - be an attempt to rectify shortcomings mentioned with the CAA's conclusions where they stated back in March: were Flybe to apply for an OL for the first time now it would not qualify, irrespective of its financial position, because it is not purporting to function as an air carrier even notwithstanding the constraints of the COVID-19 pandemic

It seems like the CAA had not seen enough evidence they were an actual airline, so perhaps the new directors and fleet registrations allow them to show they are a genuine airline able to meet 12 month financial obligations? Even so, I'm not convinced that is enough for the CAA to agree to the transfer of the OL judging by their conclusions as they're not the previous airline, despite what legal titles may say.

esa-aardvark 14th Apr 2021 15:44

I travelled a bit with Flybe. Their schedule to/from Spain did not fit
with holiday apartment bookings. Ground staff seemed to hate passengers.

caaardiff 14th Apr 2021 16:24

I wouldn't say ground staff hated passengers. I would say ground staff hated inconsistencies with Flybes policies, especially related to hand baggage. This led to a lot of confrontation with passengers which Flybe didn't seem to care about. Ground staff had to enforce it regardless.

toledoashley 14th Apr 2021 16:28

You would hope with a clean slate (near enough), that former policy decisions would be reversed. I'm curious as to the announcement, with them previously stating that the sale would be on condition of resolving the slot situation with the CAA, that neither would mention it in the press soundbites today.

ATNotts 15th Apr 2021 10:21

Those claiming the new FlyBe was nothing more than a slots sales ruse have gone a little quiet this morning


I won't the first to trumpet this as a great success, as Simon Calder notes in The Independent it's not going to be an easy ride as so many of the former FlyBe routes have been taken on by other carriers, but I'm sure many, if not most people posting here will with the new management every success.

We'll see where they are in 2 years time.

toledoashley 15th Apr 2021 10:48

In addition, in Simon’s article it only referenced ‘domestic routes’. The story in the European side is slightly different, and in some cases could be an interesting starting point.

cavokblues 15th Apr 2021 11:07

A slight word of caution - right now all that is happened is Thyme OpCo has legally bought the old name. As far as I'm aware they have not overturned the CAA's decision not to award them the OL. It doesn't disprove anything just yet about whether it is or isn't a slot grab.

Flybe / Thyme clearly state in the hearing the award of the OL is integral to the airline restarting.

Back at NH 15th Apr 2021 11:31


Its been a long time since I was fiddling around in this area, but I’m pretty sure a prerequisite for an OL is an AOC. Hence, “not purporting to function as an air carrier”.


airspeed75 15th Apr 2021 13:32

Interesting to think this FlyBe Mk2 reckon they'll be back this year.

A "summer restart" with current social restrictions in place and all four nations of the UK unable to agree any commonality with said restrictions is going to seriously limit any launch plans for a "new" airline. Particularly since most people will have already booked accommodation wherever they plan on holidaying domestically, most will plan on driving due to it being easier having the car.

Also, business travel will never be the same again with the large scale adaption of zoom meetings and the likes. Let's not forget that FlyBe 1.0 had a large proportion of business travelers on their first and last wave flights. My partner for instance used to take two trips per month minimum and will no longer be doing so in a WFH environment.

With SAGE now worrying about local restrictions due to the SA variant etc who knows what farcical restrictions we can expect to rear their ugly head.

Take it from someone who is currently flying that this summer is all but a write off- as for next winter god help us.

I did a positioning flight into BHX lately on an our A320 arriving at about 2000 and the terminal duty manager had to come and turn the lights on and unlock the terminal to let us out. The passenger numbers are that bleak. Terminals lie empty, public perception is anti-flying due to being anti-variant.

Good luck and all but the industry has fundamentally shifted and those who have been away from flying for over a year potentially haven't seen first hand the empty terminals and airport car parks- or received a load-sheet in single figures on an aircraft and route which used to be triple figures.

brummmy 15th Apr 2021 22:49

I see £20m has been plonked into the coffers, for starters, according to Companies House...

Pistonprop 16th Apr 2021 17:43

That will just about cover the executives' salaries until they find a convenient excuse a year or two later that the project is not viable!

ATNotts 16th Apr 2021 22:38

Absolutely understand your desire for the airline to fail, but with respect that is a slightly daft statement.

Jamesair1 17th Apr 2021 09:21

I wish them the best of luck and I'm looking forward to reading more about the planned intra UK route structure. With only four of its previous 46 UK routes left unserved but with a forecast of huge Staycation demand, competition on popular routes is a strong posibility. Has anyone heard where the proposed main base will be?

RVF750 17th Apr 2021 11:06

I sincerely hope they manage to pull it off. So many good friends driving delivery vans right now who deserve to be back in the air. I would think Southampton and Birmingham may well be the most likely places to start, with Manchester shortly afterwards. It's often true that the price of the seat is often inverse to the size of the aircraft. If you aren't :mad: a fortune in bent leases to Uncle Jack's kids fund, the Q400 is an excellent aircraft, 78 seats for the operating cost of the 50 seaters. If they get the cost base right, they can could compete very well indeed.

A Q400 on UK domestic routes will be as fast as a 145 within a few minutes and half the cost to run, so should be a bloodbath. One thing they need to learn is the mistakes of the customer experience. Disinterested 3rd party staff enforcing draconian hand baggage rules, lack of flexibility in booking and travelling. These things put folk off. The crews were the absolute best. I'd love to see them back where they belong.

cavokblues 17th Apr 2021 12:47

Failed Flybe set for new takeoff (archive.org)

From the Telegraph the other day:

Flybe is close to taking off once again after regulators granted the airline permission to return to the skies.

The Civil Aviation Authority has granted a new company founded by Cyrus Capital’s Lucien Farrell an operating licence.

Mr Farrell’s Mayfair fund bought Flybe’s brand and other assets from administrators EY last October amid plans to “restore essential regional connectivity in the UK”.

Cyrus was a shareholder in Flybe alongside Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Atlantic when what had been Europe’s biggest regional airline collapsed in March 2020.

Jon Peachey, who previously led Sir Richard’s US operations, is a director of the new company that recently changed its name from Thyme OpCo to Flybe Limited.

He is working alongside Kevin Hatton, the former British Airways sales executive who was named in the “dirty tricks” litigation with Virgin Atlantic 30 years ago.

Granting an operating licence removes a key hurdle in Mr Farrell’s dream of returning the airline to service.

Making his dream a reality now hinges on whether the CAA will reverse its decision to revoke the operating licence of the Flybe company that is in administration. This business retains the rights to take-off and landing slots at Heathrow airport that could be worth tens of millions of pounds.

Despite intensive lobbying from Mr Farrell, EY and law firm Freshfields, the regulator stripped the company that is in administration of its operating licence in late February.

An appeal about that decision has been lodged with Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary. Until a final decision is made, the slots remain in the hands of administrators.

If the slots are still in their control by June 3, they could be transferred to Mr Farrell’s new company.

Industry sources have long suspected that Mr Farrell’s motive for relaunching Flybe was to sell the slots, rather than run what has been historically a loss-making airline.

A CAA spokesman said: “The UK Civil Aviation Authority can confirm that Flybe (formally known as Thyme OpCo Limited) has been granted an operating licence. This licence allows Flybe to undertake commercial air transport and was granted subject to the company meeting the qualifying legislative criteria and requirements of a new applicant.”

A spokesman for EY said: "An appeal has been lodged against the Civil Aviation Authority’s decision to revoke the operating licence held by FBE Realisations 2021 Limited (in Administration). Currently, and during any appeal process, the operating licence continues to remain valid."

Cyrus Capital declined to comment.

Plastic787 17th Apr 2021 17:02


Whilst I agree that the situation is dire right now it has to be taken in context; travel is still illegal except for a few specified reasons. Projecting forward using passenger numbers right now is like making a diagnosis about a patient in hospital with a broken leg that he’ll never walk again because he can’t make his own way to the toilet. Things will improve from the present picture, I’m not hugely optimistic that it’ll be going gang busters again straight away but it will improve..

southamptonavgeek 17th Apr 2021 17:48

This may not be significant but the G-INFO page for G-CLXC now reads "Flybe Ltd" under "Aircraft operated by AOC Holder".

davidjpowell 18th Apr 2021 12:25

I see along with the slot argument people are going on about the pandemic.

but the newco is coming out of it with minimal overheads and can simply start to ramp up operations when recovery is viable without the headache of paying for the last 12/18 months downtime.

we donít know quite wha the world will look like, but people will still want to travel on holiday and for business. While zoom meetings keep things going there are a lot of businesses desperate to get some sort of face to face interaction. Biggest change may be amount of home working but I canít imagine this sort of commuter was ever a Flybe customer.

They also have the old route data, plus regional airports on their knees.

I am not writing them off in my head, as yet.

Asturias56 18th Apr 2021 17:56

I liked the original BMI but Flybe was neither one thing nor the other in my experience. Never seemed to be able to make its mind up as to what sort of airline it was.

One thing for sure - they'll have to change a lot of things to succeed post Covid. The UK hasn't missed Flybe at all - and the competition is practised and in place - I wouldn't put any of my savings into a new airline for sure,

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