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-   -   Flybe-V1 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637085-flybe-v1.html)

Rivet Joint 26th Sep 2021 14:33

Skipness One Foxtrot

Valid points but then they pushed pretty much every other region operator off routes in the past and even bought a few as a result of the q400. This was before the vanity project of getting involved with jets. LM stand no chance against a new BE on trunk routes to the UK. The 145s are incredibly cramp and the ATR 500s that they use are noisy and slow. The q400 might still be a prop but it is fast, relatively quiet and spacious compared to those two. The price is always going to be much lower on a q400 vs a 145 as well which customers will notice. If LM were building their fleet around the ATR 600 then you would probably have a point about joe public not noticing the difference. I think LM plan to have 4 600s so maybe they are planning to use some on the right routes.

commit aviation 26th Sep 2021 15:42

I am wondering if another point is around the number of seats on the different types.
The E145s and ATR 42s have around 50 seats whilst the Q400 has around 80.
I presume that in the same way as Flybe would struggle for example against EZY on BHX - EDI where the economics of an A319 wins over a Dash albeit with less rotations, the same applies between the Q400 and a 145 / ATR 42?
Obviously the ATR 72 has more seats so the maths would likely be closer on that equation.

cavokblues 26th Sep 2021 15:47

Time difference between an older ATR and a Dash 8 on UK domestic routes will be negligible, especially when the sectors are padded out time wise like all operators do.

Fly757X 26th Sep 2021 16:33

There is no doubt that the Q400 is a fast prop, that is true. However, as other posters have mentioned this benefit will not be realised at all. And, if it is, it'll be a matter of minutes on the longest of sectors. The 145s may look cramped but I've personally never had a bad experience on them. I'd go as far as saying they are possibly the most comfortable experience on the UK domestic market despite their cabins being dated. I haven't had a terrible experience on a Q400 either but I have always found them tighter. This is of course subjective. As for the ATR fleet it must also be noted that the -500/-600 denotation is a marketing name for the -212A rendering them essentially the same bar a few matters which won't make much of a difference to passenger experience. These include newer PW127M engines and also a refreshed avionics suite on the -600. Furthermore, all of LM's -500s have recieved new cabins indentical to that which are most commonly found on -600s today. Infact I do believe the cabin is indential to the AT46 they've recieved recently. The fact is "Joe Public" won't notice a difference between their AT45/46s, and if they do, they're also a spotter with knowledge of specifics!

As for cost... Well again this is tough. From my understanding LM have exclusive access to the leases of most of their Embraers which makes them as good as owned as they are from a closely related company. The only three which aren't in that state were previously leased but were bought outright by Loganair last year. Ownership costs will indeed only go so far and the Q400 of course operationally is much more attractive financially.

fjencl 26th Sep 2021 16:58

So, with the job adverts out there now for flight deck as well as cabin crew and managers , they must have an operational starting date in mind.

planedrive 26th Sep 2021 22:07

Manchester, Birmingham, Southampton and Belfast listed as the choices for operating bases on the Flight deck application forms.

Blackfriar 26th Sep 2021 23:09

Easyjet are already back to 3 or 4 a day on BRS-BFS which will be a thinner route than BHX-BFS. But they do have it to themselves.
the EasyJet schedule on BHX-BFS is between 2 and 4 a day in October and there are other carriers I’m sure, so what room is there for Flybe?
so the traffic is back and Flybe is nowhere.

Alteagod 27th Sep 2021 12:45

And Emerald at BHD. Are they building stands 11 to 23 then?

055166k 27th Sep 2021 12:46

Does Belfast City Airport have any advantage over Aldergrove for passengers?

Dorking 27th Sep 2021 14:25

Depends where you`re making for, but for me it was 10 mins in a cab from City Airport to the City Centre. Aldergrove is in Country Antrim 18 miles west of Belfast. City Airport is smaller, neater and easier to use.

Alteagod 27th Sep 2021 16:50

And depends which airport gives better deal to airline. I would honestly not rule BFS out as a base

Albert Hall 27th Sep 2021 17:57

And I think that is a big missing factor in all of these debates - which airports want Flybe back. From what I hear of a few, they do not want to return to 90% of their business being with one airline and they are not offering deals for them to return and push others out. A network based around who will and won’t do deals will be eclectic to say the least.

Blackfriar 27th Sep 2021 23:11


If you are going into Belfast it’s a £10 cab fare vs £30 cab fare at BFS. Makes a huge difference to the overall cost when the flight might cost £25. City is easier to get through as a passenger, smaller and more compact. BHD couldn’t accommodate all the Belfast flights as EasyJet has a huge operation at BFS now. Well, huge compared to when I worked there in the 1980s and we had Shuttle, BMA to LGW, and a couple of LBA. Now regularly 3 or 4 320s on stand when I come in, plus the charter stuff and Jet2.

True Blue 27th Sep 2021 23:21

Or you could take about a 40 minute bus journey at £8?

Blackfriar 28th Sep 2021 05:39

or walk for free. Not the point. The bus doesn’t go where I want to, but a taxi does. Buses are slow, infrequent and unreliable.

Alteagod 28th Sep 2021 06:08

Airlines only interested in fees charges handling costs etc not how much it will cost Joe Soap to get to airport. I understand that BFS wants to be less dependent on one carrier for all its domestic traffic and to diversify it carrier portfolioi

Jet Set Willie 28th Sep 2021 07:08

Have to back what skipness one echo says as operating out of SOU. The view was from pax I spoke to, having worried about FlyBe having gone bust in the past, they now see it as a blessing in disguise with reliable operators like Loganair and BACF on routes that are now showing very healthy loads. Raising Flybe from the ashes will definitely mean it will bring unwanted baggage with it.

SWBKCB 28th Sep 2021 07:30

Albert Hall

Wasn't it only SOU and EXT where BE 90% of the business?

SKOJB 28th Sep 2021 08:08

Think BHD also

SWBKCB 28th Sep 2021 11:47

Thought LHR would be more than 10% of BHD's business?

SKOJB 28th Sep 2021 12:05

Seems BE had around 80% of scheduled flights from BHD, so the airport were heavily reliant on the purple planes!

cavokblues 13th Oct 2021 18:19


bean 16th Oct 2021 09:36


Utterley incortect
SOU BHX and SOU were very big bases

Alteagod 16th Oct 2021 12:31

I think the point is the airport was overly reliant on just one carrier ie BE a situation they not keen is repeated

bean 16th Oct 2021 14:57

So was Sou
I despiar after 9 years but, is there any remote chance of some accuaracy?

bean 16th Oct 2021 15:05

Ops original post badly phrased
so, now, instead of correcting inaccuaricies until i'm blue in the face, i have to be a mind reader as well.

allan1987 17th Oct 2021 21:19

Looks to be G-JECX will be the first plane for Flybe 2.0
and is painted in the new Flybe purple livery similar as G-JECP


southamptonavgeek 18th Oct 2021 10:40

Do any photographs of this aircraft exist with the new scheme?

Jamie2009 19th Oct 2021 17:11

Feels like it getting close…. All the pieces are coming together. :ok: Slot grab my arse

Skipness One Foxtrot 19th Oct 2021 22:08

I think the slot grab was Plan A.
Ressurecting a defunct airline in a post pandemic world is Plan B.
You can imagine how many former passengers are still owed money by flybe....! What's the pitch to the formally loyal customers? £££

southamptonavgeek 20th Oct 2021 07:41

And yet a quote from ACL in a recently-posted article suggests that the new airline has had the slots transferred to it.

globetrotter79 20th Oct 2021 09:31

..does this mean transferred to it from the 'old' flybe's holding, or flybe 2 have re-applied for remedy slots and been allocated some from the BA/BD remedy 'pool'?

Obviously this doesn't make a whole lot of difference at LHR (other than that, in the latter scenario, flybe 2 would have less flexibility to be able to use those slots to serve other routings for 3 years), it is more of a fundamental question whether flybe 2 can get their hands directly on original flybe slot holdings elsewhere..

DC3 Dave 20th Oct 2021 10:00

So many hints; articles suggesting this and that. Interpretations, calculations and assumptions.

Let us have some flesh on the bone.

ATNotts 20th Oct 2021 10:44

You're not going to get that until the airline is good and ready. If there are any new employees on PPRuNe they are, with total justification, keeping their fingers off their keyboards on the subject.

southamptonavgeek 20th Oct 2021 16:30

I believe that, alongside the remedy slots 'leased' from BA, some/all slots have been transferred from the 'old' Flybe.

From this article: https://www.business-live.co.uk/ente...h-new-21833195
Specifically the paragraph which reads as follows:

ACL, the company which coordinates slots at 46 airports, confirmed to Business Live that some landing slots had transferred from the original firm to the new Flybe company.

In June 2021 ACL said: “Following the revocation of the former Flybe’s operating licence, ACL confirms that the airline held no slots at UK or Irish airports at the time of the revocation, having transferred them to the new Flybe operation, to which the Flybe business was transferred in October 2020.”

It added: “ACL is not expecting any slots held by Flybe 2 to be returned. If they are, it will re-allocate them to other carriers.”

BA318 20th Oct 2021 17:26

My understanding was these are the other slots MAN for example. The disputed BA slots went back to BA. The new Flybe can of course get them but will have to use them for the same period before they would keep them as before. Does anyone know if they did or are they leasing separate slots from BA?

allan1987 20th Oct 2021 20:29

New Flybe livery

Jamie2009 20th Oct 2021 20:29


Atlantic Explorer 20th Oct 2021 20:32

Blimey, I bet it didn’t take them long to come up with that design! I hope that’s not the finished article?

euromanxdude 20th Oct 2021 20:51

New livery.
I like it. Distinctive, keeping it simple.

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