Doncaster Sheffield-3
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, the general feeling is that Peel have mismanaged the airport either purposefully or inadvertently to the point that it has become unviable. This is evident by the ground swell on various social media pressure sites and seems to have been taken as gospel by the leaders trying to save it themselves. They keep saying they believe the airport could and should be a success, and have probably appointed specialists to write a report on what they want to hear.
DSA has always been seen as high risk by most airlines, I fail to see how this risk will be reduced under any new ownership model. Unless the council are offering to subsidise the venture then I can’t see what’s in it for any private sector investor unless they own the freehold outright, and then what’s to stop anyone else doing the same thing as Peel?
I think 5% chance of reopening is about right, even less for it to be a success with any longevity.
DSA has always been seen as high risk by most airlines, I fail to see how this risk will be reduced under any new ownership model. Unless the council are offering to subsidise the venture then I can’t see what’s in it for any private sector investor unless they own the freehold outright, and then what’s to stop anyone else doing the same thing as Peel?
I think 5% chance of reopening is about right, even less for it to be a success with any longevity.
I cannot see Doncaster Council subsidising this as they do not have the £10m a year needed to subsidise this and Oliver won't pay.
On the other hand, Lord Chadwick said many new interested parties. Yes there were if you count non airport operators as interested parties. Some airlines turned up though according to a worker at Doncaster Council
I cannot see Doncaster Council subsidising this as they do not have the £10m a year needed to subsidise this and Oliver won't pay.
On the other hand, Lord Chadwick said many new interested parties. Yes there were if you count non airport operators as interested parties. Some airlines turned up though according to a worker at Doncaster Council
On the other hand, Lord Chadwick said many new interested parties. Yes there were if you count non airport operators as interested parties. Some airlines turned up though according to a worker at Doncaster Council
Would like to know who exactly turned up to this.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: leeds
Age: 77
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get the point that airports like these need to find alternative aviation sources of revenue, but having the facilities and resources to handle 737 aircraft carrying passengers at a profitable volume is expensive these days, so it needs to reach the critical volume to be viable.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 58
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southend is arguably a cautionary tale of what happens when you rely on large passenger throughput generated by two airlines.
Get the point that airports like these need to find alternative aviation sources of revenue, but having the facilities and resources to handle 737 aircraft carrying passengers at a profitable volume is expensive these days, so it needs to reach the critical volume to be viable.
Get the point that airports like these need to find alternative aviation sources of revenue, but having the facilities and resources to handle 737 aircraft carrying passengers at a profitable volume is expensive these days, so it needs to reach the critical volume to be viable.
It is interesting to note from earlier posts that BOH manages to turn a profit annually with essentially two passenger operators and similar if not less passenger aircraft movements than DSA did - but then they may not be doing any wizardry with the accounts.
Last edited by G-FORZ; 19th Jul 2023 at 10:12.
Isn’t it the case that unless there are large scale freight operations (was the UAE interest freight related?) any future success of DSA and of any other regional airport for that matter is in the hands of only 5 sizeable UK airline operators - failure to get a big based commitment from one or a good mix of at least three can end in tears.
It is interesting to note from earlier posts that BOH manages to turn a profit annually with essentially two passenger operators and similar if not less passenger aircraft movements than DSA did - but then they may not be doing any wizardry with the accounts.
It is interesting to note from earlier posts that BOH manages to turn a profit annually with essentially two passenger operators and similar if not less passenger aircraft movements than DSA did - but then they may not be doing any wizardry with the accounts.
UAE based interested investor (chancer) was someone involved in tourism in one of the states there, nothing to do with freight.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 58
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dont know if BOH ‘turns a profit’ but I’m not sure even with its most recent terminal expansion whether its capacity is anywhere near what DSA’s was or what their staffing levels are etc. also, I think the site has developed a lot of aviation related business over decades which contributed to the bottom line. It also serves a fairly large and prosperous conurbation with little direct competition which will help matters.
UAE based interested investor (chancer) was someone involved in tourism in one of the states there, nothing to do with freight.
UAE based interested investor (chancer) was someone involved in tourism in one of the states there, nothing to do with freight.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 58
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You might want to take a look at accounts for NWI and EXT and then consider why DSA underperformed those airports also, but with significantly more passengers and aircraft movements. Yes all different airports, but things don’t add up or look right.
You can’t compare those to DSA as they were never built to handle over 2.5 mppa, and they aren’t operated to do so either. Seems things don’t look right to you because you don’t want them to..
BOH has very diverse aviation activity. Passenger, Cargo, GA, Biz Jets, Pseudo Military (Draken), Military visitors, Maintenance organisations and lots of non aviation activity on the old Vickers/ BAC/BAe site.
I remember times in the 1970s and 80s when there were no passenger flights some days, but the airport survived.
To rely on only passengers requires a large throughput.
I remember times in the 1970s and 80s when there were no passenger flights some days, but the airport survived.
To rely on only passengers requires a large throughput.
BOH has very diverse aviation activity. Passenger, Cargo, GA, Biz Jets, Pseudo Military (Draken), Military visitors, Maintenance organisations and lots of non aviation activity on the old Vickers/ BAC/BAe site.
I remember times in the 1970s and 80s when there were no passenger flights some days, but the airport survived.
To rely on only passengers requires a large throughput.
I remember times in the 1970s and 80s when there were no passenger flights some days, but the airport survived.
To rely on only passengers requires a large throughput.
Be interested to know how much 2Excel, NPAS, Flight Schools and the other businesses on site actually paid to be there. I suspect very little. Then you have support to airlines by charging less than competing airports to encourage them to stay and build that baseline passenger throughput and add the cost of operating a full service 24 hour airport operation.
You cannot compare with BOH, NWI or EXT.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 58
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But you can if we are comparing published accounts reported revenue year to March 22 (the ones that say they can’t operate the airport profitably)
DSA £8.4m
NWI £13.8m
EXT £11.2m
BOH £45.1m
Clearly Peel are not reporting the revenue of the “Airport” and has an operating company set up to take all the operating costs, and conveniently put profitable operations (ancillary activities) in another operating company. The actual revenue of the “Airport” may even exceed that of BOH.
DSA £8.4m
NWI £13.8m
EXT £11.2m
BOH £45.1m
Clearly Peel are not reporting the revenue of the “Airport” and has an operating company set up to take all the operating costs, and conveniently put profitable operations (ancillary activities) in another operating company. The actual revenue of the “Airport” may even exceed that of BOH.
But you can if we are comparing published accounts reported revenue year to March 22 (the ones that say they can’t operate the airport profitably)
DSA £8.4m
NWI £13.8m
EXT £11.2m
BOH £45.1m
Clearly Peel are not reporting the revenue of the “Airport” and has an operating company set up to take all the operating costs, and conveniently put profitable operations (ancillary activities) in another operating company. The actual revenue of the “Airport” may even exceed that of BOH.
DSA £8.4m
NWI £13.8m
EXT £11.2m
BOH £45.1m
Clearly Peel are not reporting the revenue of the “Airport” and has an operating company set up to take all the operating costs, and conveniently put profitable operations (ancillary activities) in another operating company. The actual revenue of the “Airport” may even exceed that of BOH.
Last edited by pug; 19th Jul 2023 at 14:27.
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Teesside
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Up the road at MME revenue for year upto March 22 was £7.7m and that was with only 84k passengers and 20k movements.
I await with baited breath the provisional financials for 22-23 year which are due out soon, as this will give a better feel for revenues as it is an increase on pre covid levels. But the 22 year was 55k less passengers than pre covid, so not giving a true picture really.
Looking at DSA revenue for year 21 was £6.1m for 184k passengers.
MME year 21 revenue was £4.8m with 14.5k passengers.
MME year 22 revenue was £7.7m with 84k passengers.
Just goes to show how much more diverse in operations at MME is delivering greater revenue levels than DSA.
I await with baited breath the provisional financials for 22-23 year which are due out soon, as this will give a better feel for revenues as it is an increase on pre covid levels. But the 22 year was 55k less passengers than pre covid, so not giving a true picture really.
Looking at DSA revenue for year 21 was £6.1m for 184k passengers.
MME year 21 revenue was £4.8m with 14.5k passengers.
MME year 22 revenue was £7.7m with 84k passengers.
Just goes to show how much more diverse in operations at MME is delivering greater revenue levels than DSA.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chobham
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Needs lots and lots of peripheral income. The likes of Bournemouth have a tonne of property assets generating substantial rent and as someone else pointed out here, that steady flow of non-airline business, maintenance visitors etc. Even when Doncaster was renting the big hangars, the rents were very low. Ignore the cited £10m/annum costs of running the place, add in reserves for periodic infrastructure upgrades/maintenance/replacement and that's blown out of the water.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Doncaster
Age: 50
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Needs lots and lots of peripheral income. The likes of Bournemouth have a tonne of property assets generating substantial rent and as someone else pointed out here, that steady flow of non-airline business, maintenance visitors etc. Even when Doncaster was renting the big hangars, the rents were very low. Ignore the cited £10m/annum costs of running the place, add in reserves for periodic infrastructure upgrades/maintenance/replacement and that's blown out of the water.