Doncaster Sheffield-3

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by davidjpowell

As I understand it the council are in very active discussions with an established operator, with another in the wings as a backup.

Perhaps ask them?

Whichever established operator it or they are will need a very good business case and a very attractive offer to be lured in. That means repeating the previous business model - essentially paying an airline to use the airport and relying on ancillary income to balance the books.

It didn't work last time. How is it likely to turn out differently if it is tried again?

[ORAC]

https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/ne...oduction-site/

Hybrid Air Vehicles and the City of Doncaster Council agree terms on flagship production site for Airlander 10

• City of Doncaster Council and Hybrid Air Vehicles Ltd reach agreement for major new Airlander 10 production centre at Carcroft Common site, for production, testing and certification operations.
• Hybrid Air Vehicles’ plans for Doncaster will create a £1bn+ per annum export business, over 1,200 high-value green jobs and new supply chains within the South Yorkshire Investment Zone.
• Announcement builds on a previous agreement with SYMCA, underpinned by a £7m investment by the region.

The City of Doncaster Council and Hybrid Air Vehicles Ltd, the UK-based leader in sustainable aircraft technology, have agreed to locate the production programme for Airlander 10, the world’s most efficient large aircraft, at Carcroft Common.

Carcroft Common is a 50-hectare site identified by the City of Doncaster Council for development to unlock new economic growth. The freehold for the site will be acquired by Hybrid Air Vehicles under the terms of the agreement.

Hybrid Air Vehicles will now initiate activities leading towards a planning application, working with the local community and other stakeholders as part of the planning and preparation process.

Subject to planning approval, Hybrid Air Vehicles will develop new flagship facilities for Airlander 10’s production, testing, and certification operations, capable of producing up to 24 aircraft per year at the site. It will house cutting-edge aerospace production equipment, such as new assembly lines for Airlander’s composite-based airframe, propulsion systems, and electrical and avionics systems.

Airlander 10 is a new type of ultra-low emissions aircraft capable of carrying 100 passengers, or ten tonnes of payload. The reserved orderbook for Airlander 10 stands in excess of £1bn, with the first aircraft set to enter service from 2028 with the likes of Air Nostrum Group, the launch airline customer.

In partnership with the City of Doncaster Council, Hybrid Air Vehicles will establish Carcroft Common as a hub for advanced manufacturing and sustainable aviation in South Yorkshire, creating over 1,200 new jobs and thriving supply chains. Hybrid Air Vehicles will also work closely with important regional partners like the University of Sheffield’s Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre, and the Doncaster UTC.

The announcement marks important progress toward the City of Doncaster’s Economic Strategy 2030, and the success of the South Yorkshire Investment Zone, which is focused on advanced manufacturing. The Carcroft Common site is part of the Investment Zone, launched by the Chancellor of Exchequer in July 2023, which aims to improve investment through planning, development, and skills support.

In February 2024, the City of Doncaster Council and South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority published ambitious plans for South Yorkshire Airport City, re-opening Doncaster Sheffield Airport alongside a focus on new green advanced manufacturing and sustainable industrial innovation, including Hybrid Air Vehicles investment into Carcroft Common.

The announcement of a production site builds on a previous agreement with the Mayor of Doncaster and the Mayor of South Yorkshire, Oliver Coppard, in March 2023. Underpinned by a £7m investment by the region, this included a commitment to collaborate on skills and supply chain development.

[ATNotts]

Didn't see that coming!

Certainly has the potential to be a better bet than relying solely on commercial aviation.

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

Didn't see that coming!

Certainly has the potential to be a better bet than relying solely on commercial aviation.

But it isn't at Finningley?

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

But it isn't at Finningley?

That will teach me for scanning and making (false) assumptions!

[davidjpowell]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

Whichever established operator it or they are will need a very good business case and a very attractive offer to be lured in. That means repeating the previous business model - essentially paying an airline to use the airport and relying on ancillary income to balance the books.

It didn't work last time. How is it likely to turn out differently if it is tried again?

Let's see who the Operator is? My prediction is it will not be a mickey mouse operator but a well funded and experiences operator who knows their market better than me or you...

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by davidjpowell

Let's see who the Operator is? My prediction is it will not be a mickey mouse operator but a well funded and experiences operator who knows their market better than me or you...

Well that rules out Global Airlines!!

Seriously, I don't doubt the sustainability of the carrier, there aren't that many to choose from that aren't these days. However whoever it is will be making a leap of faith and will drive a hard bargain to be induced into operating from DSA. This is why I am sceptical as to how the airport operating company is going to make money.

As to which airline it may be I'm not going to speculate about, I just hope its not Wizz or Wizz UK who shat on thd airport before, and a serial sh1tters have done similar to CWL.

[N707ZS]

I see the Airlander airship factory is to be built elsewhere in Doncaster and not at the airport.

[ShyTorque]

Carcroft Industrial Estate is 8.5 nm NW of EGCN airport and well clear of the runway centreline.

[goldeneye]

If/when the airport reopens, who are the likely airlines.

TUI and Wizz once again ?

Doubt Jet2 will want to open a base so close to LBA & EMA.

[eggc]

It better be a damn sight more than Wizz and TUI as that's what was there previously and the operation lost a fortune. The problem has got to be who else is there.

I doubt Jet2 with the proximity of Leeds. EasyJet's business model seems to have shifted more towards larger airports these days. Ryanair have aircraft shortages already and new base option limited.

So who does that leave ? Would like to be wrong and call me pessimistic, but I really cannot see airlines queing to get into a newly opened DSA and then we're back where we started....a cash burner.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by eggc

It better be a damn sight more than Wizz and TUI as that's what was there previously and the operation lost a fortune. The problem has got to be who else is there.

I doubt Jet2 with the proximity of Leeds. EasyJet's business model seems to have shifted more towards larger airports these days. Ryanair have aircraft shortages already and new base option limited.

So who does that leave ? Would like to be wrong and call me pessimistic, but I really cannot see airlines queing to get into a newly opened DSA and then we're back where we started....a cash burner.

You have summed the conumdrum up to a tee.

[N707ZS]

Dose new DSA get to keep the income from any company still on the industrial site.

[TimmyW]

From what I can gather, it will be open on a much smaller scale than before, with only limited passenger services complimenting other services such as freight.

I'm thinking it will just be a small TUI base and nothing more than that.

[SWBKCB]

How much room is there at LBA for Jet2 to keep expanding? Given the opening of the LPL and BOH bases, is their thinking developing and DSA not as unlikely as it once was?

[pabely]

And isn't MAN technically full overnight?

[FRatSTN]

How much room is there at LBA for Jet2 to keep expanding?

And isn't MAN technically full overnight?

That's largely no doubt why LPL is now being added.

[pug]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

How much room is there at LBA for Jet2 to keep expanding? Given the opening of the LPL and BOH bases, is their thinking developing and DSA not as unlikely as it once was?

Creation of ten extra parking stands, that’s 33% increase, starts this winter at LBA alongside the redevelopment of the terminal which will see capacity double. So once completed there will be plenty of room to base more aircraft if they want to. Thats not to say Jet2 wouldn’t look at DSA as they have ambitious growth plans over the next 6 years, but I don’t think it’s comparable to the decision to go in to LPL which in itself is a much larger market than Yorkshire/Lincolnshire, nor the decision to base at BOH which is the last heavily populated part of the country without any exposure to Jet2 and Jet2holidays.

[TimmyW]

As I said, the passenger function will be on a much smaller scale than previously. I can promise you that passenger services are not their priority at all.

Everyone involved knows passenger services will not keep the place going. As I said, you may get a small TUI base, but that will be it.

[SWBKCB]

I can promise you that passenger services are not their priority at all.

So what is the plan to make money? Cargo (if so, the same question applies - who?), Business park with a runway in the middle?