Edinburgh-4
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
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Biggest problem is they’ve now built an airport on broken foundations (not literally)
Check-in is an absolute mess the second it gets near busy. Jet2 check in is too cramp and the whole area is very poorly signposted.
Ryanair check-in and international arrivals 1 being next to each other means people waiting for arrivals can’t do so in a way that allow allows the clear passage of other arrivals into a very poorly signposted area for tourists.
Security has 6 (I might be wrong) lanes whereas Glasgow has something like 13. The lack of scanners is not helped by the lack of area to queue passengers, and is also not helped by passengers being inefficient with trays and protocols.
The gate area is like it’s made out of lego, start with a box and then build little bits onto it. Gate 17 is particularly awful as it’s in the middle of a narrow corridor that both departures and domestic arrivals use.
International arrivals 2 is genuinely one of the worst layouts of any UK airport, why make me walk up 5 flights of stairs to walk back downstairs, as most gates only have 1 lift good luck for those who struggle with stairs. Then having passengers flow into the hall from two directions creates unnecessary path crossings and inefficiencies.
Overall it’s far too small for the passengers it’s handling and realistically spending money on vanity projects like US Pre-Clearance isn’t going to fix it.
it also faces a risk that is unique to them, it’s grown rapidly in an area with multiple alternatives. Draw a circle with a journey time of 2 hours from EDI and you get 3 other international airports, all of which have them beat in infrastructure.
It’s not beyond fixing, it just needs to fix what it has before continuing to grow.
Check-in is an absolute mess the second it gets near busy. Jet2 check in is too cramp and the whole area is very poorly signposted.
Ryanair check-in and international arrivals 1 being next to each other means people waiting for arrivals can’t do so in a way that allow allows the clear passage of other arrivals into a very poorly signposted area for tourists.
Security has 6 (I might be wrong) lanes whereas Glasgow has something like 13. The lack of scanners is not helped by the lack of area to queue passengers, and is also not helped by passengers being inefficient with trays and protocols.
The gate area is like it’s made out of lego, start with a box and then build little bits onto it. Gate 17 is particularly awful as it’s in the middle of a narrow corridor that both departures and domestic arrivals use.
International arrivals 2 is genuinely one of the worst layouts of any UK airport, why make me walk up 5 flights of stairs to walk back downstairs, as most gates only have 1 lift good luck for those who struggle with stairs. Then having passengers flow into the hall from two directions creates unnecessary path crossings and inefficiencies.
Overall it’s far too small for the passengers it’s handling and realistically spending money on vanity projects like US Pre-Clearance isn’t going to fix it.
it also faces a risk that is unique to them, it’s grown rapidly in an area with multiple alternatives. Draw a circle with a journey time of 2 hours from EDI and you get 3 other international airports, all of which have them beat in infrastructure.
It’s not beyond fixing, it just needs to fix what it has before continuing to grow.
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Glasgow
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In the bigger picture, could it be the case that management see US pre-clearance and the new routes that the CEO claims would follow as a way to increase the value of the business and/or sale price? This is part of a CEO’s job. Maximise profit for the owners. The airport is for sale and is being actively marketed right now. The current owners have “plans” to spend approx £77m over the next 6 years or so to expand the terminal infrastructure. This isn’t a plan to solve the current congestion problems. As many have commented, a new pier etc would cost way more than £77m. Would a new owner commit to spend the cash required to take the airport to the next level or at the very least be able to cope far better with peak summer demands?
plus it’s ideal for non Americans but with all bar MCO being predominately Americans onboard it’s usefulness is reduced
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
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https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citize...ssport-control
Join Date: Jun 2023
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I believe EDI is being considered for a pilot scheme, where pax departing to US destinations would go through enhanced type screening in an area next to the current security area. They would then be allowed to access the main departure lounge and mingle, without the requirement to enter a separate secured area prior to boarding. This would obviously suit EDI and help to keep the costs down. It’s also been reported that the pilot scheme could run alongside the US MPC scheme. This in theory would dramatically cut down the time to process pax. Given that the majority of pax using services to/from EDI are US citizens, only a small percentage of pax would need to go through enhanced screening.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citize...ssport-control
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citize...ssport-control
Spending significant sums of money on services for a small group of customers won’t fly with airlines like Ryanair who provide 2.5 million pax in the same period and are still going to be subject to ground delays due to poor taxiway layouts and a runway which is in an awful condition.
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Interesting, but even that raises the issue of where would this new security screening be, ultimately USA traffic has a maximum of just under 505k pax for this summer.
Spending significant sums of money on services for a small group of customers won’t fly with airlines like Ryanair who provide 2.5 million pax in the same period and are still going to be subject to ground delays due to poor taxiway layouts and a runway which is in an awful condition.
Spending significant sums of money on services for a small group of customers won’t fly with airlines like Ryanair who provide 2.5 million pax in the same period and are still going to be subject to ground delays due to poor taxiway layouts and a runway which is in an awful condition.
EDI management clearly believe US Pre-clearance is a big part of the jigsaw, which would lead to more direct routes and most importantly; year round services to/from the US. The CEO also believes there is scope to attract more pax travelling to the US from the continent via EDI.
The last meeting minutes also made reference to an extension of the current security area. Management offices behind the security area will be removed to create additional space. I suspect this could be the area required for “enhanced screening”. Time will tell.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
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Guys, the point has always been that post US CBP you are considered to be on US soil and free to enter the US domestically. There's no major country on Earth that does customs any other way. You're actually conflating two issues here :
1) Security - easy fix if the US "trusts" the DfT level of security, which given they do daily for flights to the US shouldn't be an issue IMHO. Not even sure why the second security check is even needed in DUB. Anyone know?
2) Entering the US and clearing customs before leaving Scotland. Facial recognition doesn't get you round that one.You can't do this then go to Weatherspooons (is there even one? I don't drink and fly!) for a pint with Shug and his new bird. Really.
Sounds like a lot of nice PR fluff and dollars for the lads. Happy to be wrong if someone can explain what we're all missing here.
1) Security - easy fix if the US "trusts" the DfT level of security, which given they do daily for flights to the US shouldn't be an issue IMHO. Not even sure why the second security check is even needed in DUB. Anyone know?
2) Entering the US and clearing customs before leaving Scotland. Facial recognition doesn't get you round that one.You can't do this then go to Weatherspooons (is there even one? I don't drink and fly!) for a pint with Shug and his new bird. Really.
Sounds like a lot of nice PR fluff and dollars for the lads. Happy to be wrong if someone can explain what we're all missing here.
I believe EDI is being considered for a pilot scheme, where pax departing to US destinations would go through enhanced type screening in an area next to the current security area. They would then be allowed to access the main departure lounge and mingle, without the requirement to enter a separate secured area prior to boarding. This would obviously suit EDI and help to keep the costs down. It’s also been reported that the pilot scheme could run alongside the US MPC scheme. This in theory would dramatically cut down the time to process pax. Given that the majority of pax using services to/from EDI are US citizens, only a small percentage of pax would need to go through enhanced screening.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citize...ssport-control
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citize...ssport-control
Anyway, congressional officials coming next month for a butcher's apparently:
https://www.edinburghinquirer.co.uk/...pitals-airport
A team of US Congressional officials from Florida are due in Scotland in late September to discuss a special ‘Little America’ Preclearance zone for all passengers leaving Edinburgh Airport on flights bound for the United States
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Sounds from the above as if pre-cleared US passengers could meet "Shug and his new bird" for a pint in Wetherspoons. Really.
Anyway, congressional officials coming next month for a butcher's apparently:
https://www.edinburghinquirer.co.uk/...pitals-airport
Anyway, congressional officials coming next month for a butcher's apparently:
https://www.edinburghinquirer.co.uk/...pitals-airport
Apart from the so-called Vanity Project, was it clear, for such huge expense and running costs, who in-particular benefits, given inbound/outbound demographic (which I don’t think is identical to DUB).
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Interesting, but even that raises the issue of where would this new security screening be, ultimately USA traffic has a maximum of just under 505k pax for this summer.
Spending significant sums of money on services for a small group of customers won’t fly with airlines like Ryanair who provide 2.5 million pax in the same period and are still going to be subject to ground delays due to poor taxiway layouts and a runway which is in an awful condition.
Spending significant sums of money on services for a small group of customers won’t fly with airlines like Ryanair who provide 2.5 million pax in the same period and are still going to be subject to ground delays due to poor taxiway layouts and a runway which is in an awful condition.
One presumes all US flights will run on time with zero queues, gate delays etc on that particular day… ‘will run like clockwork’.
Apart from the so-called Vanity Project, was it clear, for such huge expense and running costs, who in-particular benefits, given inbound/outbound demographic (which I don’t think is identical to DUB).
Apart from the so-called Vanity Project, was it clear, for such huge expense and running costs, who in-particular benefits, given inbound/outbound demographic (which I don’t think is identical to DUB).
Join Date: Jun 2023
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"ultimately USA traffic has a maximum of just under 505k pax for this summer" is not of much relevance given the airport hopes that if it was able to get pre-clearance it may well lead to additional services. The "awful condition" of the runway should be addressed by the 'Major Runway Rehab' works planned to be complete by January 2026 (source see 2.1).
Various parties could benefit according to this. Whether those benefits outweigh the "huge expense and running costs" is not for me to say but time will tell if the various parties think that they would.
Various parties could benefit according to this. Whether those benefits outweigh the "huge expense and running costs" is not for me to say but time will tell if the various parties think that they would.
The break-up of BAA has meant the end of cross subsidy for the greater good of the group. Huge benefits in terms of passenger volumes and routes BUT the need to make consistent money in a regional environment means that future strategic investment to take the business to the next level is a challenge.
There's a tempting case for a completely new terminal by compulsory purchase of Ingliston showground land and build fit for the 21st century. But that won't happen so add ons to the existing 1977 building are the only realistic option. Forever.
And that's a pain point and a half. Something this big should ideally be public/private partnership IMHO. It's beyond the pockets of any sensible private business to get this right. And that's not EDI's fault, it just is what it is now.
There's a tempting case for a completely new terminal by compulsory purchase of Ingliston showground land and build fit for the 21st century. But that won't happen so add ons to the existing 1977 building are the only realistic option. Forever.
And that's a pain point and a half. Something this big should ideally be public/private partnership IMHO. It's beyond the pockets of any sensible private business to get this right. And that's not EDI's fault, it just is what it is now.
But why should the public subsidise another airport operator, even in part? There a re lot of other calls on the cash - defence, hospitals, care etc
Perhaps if the owners took out less cash the business would be in better shape?
Perhaps if the owners took out less cash the business would be in better shape?
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
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Politics, rightly or wrongly will take centre stage re any financial support and growth at EDI. I don’t think it is unreasonable to say that there will be very little chance of any substantial support from the current Scottish Gov. The Green Party in particular openly talk of their desire to wipe out air travel, tax private individuals to the hilt for flying into Scotland and destroy the sector as a result. The UK Gov is far more likely to be supportive. It is politically advantageous for them. They have already indicated their support for EDI’s pre-clearance application. After all, if successful, EDI would be the first UK airport to have pre-clearance. The special relationship etc.
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Doubt there will be any UK Gov interaction with Pre-Clearance at EDI. If anything ever came to fruition, they’ll be all over it like a rash. Head office one previous owner camper-van.
Join Date: Aug 2023
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US Pre Clearance
One presumes all US flights will run on time with zero queues, gate delays etc on that particular day… ‘will run like clockwork’.
Apart from the so-called Vanity Project, was it clear, for such huge expense and running costs, who in-particular benefits, given inbound/outbound demographic (which I don’t think is identical to DUB).
Apart from the so-called Vanity Project, was it clear, for such huge expense and running costs, who in-particular benefits, given inbound/outbound demographic (which I don’t think is identical to DUB).
We have never built a major private sector airport in the UK, they've all been taxpayer funded then flogged off. The closest we got was DSA being built on the site of RAF Finningley.
Maybe the East Cost will bubble pop and the lowland market will rebalance but imagine where'll we'll be in ten years if they don't start putting in something major now.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Dublin's USA bound passenger profile does differ considerably from Edinburghs'. In relation to the biggest trans Atlantic carrier at Dublin..Aer Lingus, it carries a considerable number of transit passengers. These are fed into the hub from the UK and Continental Europe by Aer Lingus and Emerald Air. I don't have a breakdown of US v Non US passengers at Dublin but it's probably around 60/40, US/Non US
Join Date: Apr 2002
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yes - for EVRY Passenger - not just one airline or one set of destinations.
Join Date: Mar 2013
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wonder if the hub aspect and huge connecting set up as at DUB has any advantages for pre- clearance or does it not really matter? I think my presumption was its not of huge benefit to homeward bound US passengers anyway which would seem odd if 70% of the throughput would be in that category? And for those that fly to US a lot, reasonably easy now to get Global Entry.
Pre-clearance in Ireland long pre-dates modern Hub & Spoke. It's a clear advantage negotiated by Aer Lingus back in 1986 to give them some saleable benefit in trans-Atlantic operations over the big boys - especially BA and LHR.
It is/was totally politically driven and had nothing to do with transit advantages etc
It is/was totally politically driven and had nothing to do with transit advantages etc