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Edinburgh-4

Old 21st Apr 2023, 19:51
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tictack67
That's doesn't reflect in the low number of routes from Manchester to US and Canada this summer

Served from Manchester
OrlandoNew York JFK Atalanta
Houston
Toronto.

​​​​​​
​​​​​​Served from EdinburghNew York JFK & EWRAtlantaBostonChicagoWashingtonOrlando (School Holiday)
TorontoCalgary
​​​​​
​​​​​
Yes, at a time of the pound's historic low and the obvious increase in inbound tourism. The Pound will recover. Edinburgh will imho thus shed some of these routes. Manchester will regain Boston, EWR, possibly Chicago, Philadelphia by W2024 anyways so that leaves just Washington and Calgary from your list? EDI lacks the huge population & thus outbound demand of the North West area. Manchester in Summer 17 had directs to PHL, ORD, JFK, YVR, YYZ, LAS, MCO, LAX, SFO, SEA, ATL among others.. That demand has not gone away.
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Old 21st Apr 2023, 22:15
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by laviation
Yes, at a time of the pound's historic low and the obvious increase in inbound tourism. The Pound will recover. Edinburgh will imho thus shed some of these routes. Manchester will regain Boston, EWR, possibly Chicago, Philadelphia by W2024 anyways so that leaves just Washington and Calgary from your list? EDI lacks the huge population & thus outbound demand of the North West area. Manchester in Summer 17 had directs to PHL, ORD, JFK, YVR, YYZ, LAS, MCO, LAX, SFO, SEA, ATL among others.. That demand has not gone away.
Let's not do the "my airport deserves long haul more than yours does".....but having said that, there's no announcement or anything on sale out of MAN from AA/DL/UA on their own metal. When you say BOS/EWR/ORD/PHL are due back by winter 2024, well there's nothing beyond aspirational fluff from marketing types and PR execs to back that up just yet. Demand for new aircraft will be fought over internally and I think MAN will see some US legacies back, but to say what you said is wrong. The demand is still there as you say, but the outbound demand to the US is unbalanced, MAN is not a "must see tourist destination" in the same mould as Scotland/Ireland is for visiting US tourists. Sure there's loads of outbound UK POS, but Delta consciously gave that to Virgin to cut costs and American screwed themselves from 4 routes down to none, which I suspect was someone's plan for a BA codeshare all along. I reckon MAN-EWR will come back soon, but we don't need to attack each other simply because one team is remarkably doing well. Sometimes momentum matters a lot, just don't let it cannibalise existing success and eat itself.
I well remember MAN's (Gil Thomson's?) comment that Scotland didn't even need it's own transatlantic flights as that was what MAN was there for.....

Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 21st Apr 2023 at 22:46.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 03:28
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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The diverted United 767 is still sitting over at cargo. That’s been well over a week now.

It’s been scheduled out the last couple of days and still hasn’t left.

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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 06:54
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
Let's not do the "my airport deserves long haul more than yours does".....but having said that, there's no announcement or anything on sale out of MAN from AA/DL/UA on their own metal. When you say BOS/EWR/ORD/PHL are due back by winter 2024, well there's nothing beyond aspirational fluff from marketing types and PR execs to back that up just yet. Demand for new aircraft will be fought over internally and I think MAN will see some US legacies back, but to say what you said is wrong. The demand is still there as you say, but the outbound demand to the US is unbalanced, MAN is not a "must see tourist destination" in the same mould as Scotland/Ireland is for visiting US tourists. Sure there's loads of outbound UK POS, but Delta consciously gave that to Virgin to cut costs and American screwed themselves from 4 routes down to none, which I suspect was someone's plan for a BA codeshare all along. I reckon MAN-EWR will come back soon, but we don't need to attack each other simply because one team is remarkably doing well. Sometimes momentum matters a lot, just don't let it cannibalise existing success and eat itself.
I well remember MAN's (Gil Thomson's?) comment that Scotland didn't even need it's own transatlantic flights as that was what MAN was there for.....
I didn’t mean to come off as rude! What I meant to say was that Edinburgh is currently vastly overperforming even what they had pre-Covid. Manchester is vastly underperforming pre-covid US levels. One hopes EDI can hold on to these routes for the foreseeable but that doesn’t seem likely imo.. The routes I listed to gain back for W24 would be Aer Lingus (AA Codeshare) who have plans for large expansion anyway and United who seem a given. To be honest I think it would be better for EDI come the time Virgin have a spare A330 or two for VS to take on the Delta routes. This would largely guarantee some more ‘obscure’ ones like Atlanta to stay..
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 07:38
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
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Atlanta is the pride and joy of Delta's US operation - they're not going to risk 'mericans not flying with them because some of the route is operated by "an obscure European airline"
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 07:59
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by laviation
I didn’t mean to come off as rude! What I meant to say was that Edinburgh is currently vastly overperforming even what they had pre-Covid. Manchester is vastly underperforming pre-covid US levels. One hopes EDI can hold on to these routes for the foreseeable but that doesn’t seem likely imo.. The routes I listed to gain back for W24 would be Aer Lingus (AA Codeshare) who have plans for large expansion anyway and United who seem a given. To be honest I think it would be better for EDI come the time Virgin have a spare A330 or two for VS to take on the Delta routes. This would largely guarantee some more ‘obscure’ ones like Atlanta to stay..
I think the fact you think Atlanta, the world’s busiest hub, is “obscure” demonstrates that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

And the fact that it’s the route VS cut back at the first sign of a pilot shortage shows just how unimportant MAN is to the US majors.

The airline that operated the majority of the routes you listed went bust. Maybe there wasn’t demand after all. US majors serve routes to make money, not please spotters.

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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 08:22
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Atlanta is the pride and joy of Delta's US operation
But just not been a hit specifically on the two previous attempts to make ATL-EDI work. Lets hope third time lucky.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 08:53
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CabinCrewe
But just not been a hit specifically on the two previous attempts to make ATL-EDI work. Lets hope third time lucky.
I'm pretty sure they've operated the route only once, in the mid-2000s. They then swapped it for JFK, then ditched that then restarted it (link below refers to the restart of JFK after seven years, having swapped it for ATL). And their luck seems to be holding so far given that they increased the frequency of the route from the initially-planned five-weekly service to daily before it's even started.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...lights-1496882

Last edited by tartan 201; 22nd Apr 2023 at 09:04.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 09:08
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
I think the fact you think Atlanta, the world’s busiest hub, is “obscure” demonstrates that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

And the fact that it’s the route VS cut back at the first sign of a pilot shortage shows just how unimportant MAN is to the US majors.

The airline that operated the majority of the routes you listed went bust. Maybe there wasn’t demand after all. US majors serve routes to make money, not please spotters.
Atlanta is an obscure route from a regional airport such as EDI or MAN.. Resorting to insults shows you are probably the one who doesn’t know what they are talking about.. I am absolutely sure both airports can support a route. All I suggested was Delta hand over their operation to Virgin who would likely be the better option now they are in Sky Team!
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 09:28
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by laviation
Atlanta is an obscure route from a regional airport such as EDI or MAN.. Resorting to insults shows you are probably the one who doesn’t know what they are talking about.. I am absolutely sure both airports can support a route. All I suggested was Delta hand over their operation to Virgin who would likely be the better option now they are in Sky Team!
Why hand it over to Virgin? 1) VS don't have a base at EDI. 2) Doesnt the DL pilots contracts have a clause in which other airlines can only operate a small percentage of JV flights?

Also, if your wondering about EDI v MAN, there must be a reason why AC are keeping a 787 on EDI, and MAN is getting a leased 767 for a month or so...
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 09:45
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GrahamK
Why hand it over to Virgin? 1) VS don't have a base at EDI. 2) Doesnt the DL pilots contracts have a clause in which other airlines can only operate a small percentage of JV flights?

Also, if your wondering about EDI v MAN, there must be a reason why AC are keeping a 787 on EDI, and MAN is getting a leased 767 for a month or so...
There was no insinuation of an “EDI v MAN”….
Virgin do send up a Manchester based A350 to operate Orlando. MAN-JFK seems to be getting put onto A350 so assumedly that frees up the A330 operating it? Correct me if I am wrong!
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 10:31
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Originally Posted by CabinCrewe
Maybe just a reflection of the wrong aircraft for off season. An A321LR /XLR when available would be better fit. If average 76, there must be days when way lower.
I have been on this route this year in late Jan and the 763 nearly full, did an earlier post not indicated healthy load factors in Jan?
maybe slimmer in Feb / March when a 321LR might fit but I fly the route again Monday and again nearly full. The demand is there in April.

Separately I thought I had read DL had increased JFK to 7weekly in NW23. Must have been mistaken.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 11:36
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by laviation
Atlanta is an obscure route from a regional airport such as EDI or MAN.. Resorting to insults shows you are probably the one who doesn’t know what they are talking about.. I am absolutely sure both airports can support a route. All I suggested was Delta hand over their operation to Virgin who would likely be the better option now they are in Sky Team!
Basic errors here. Atlanta is the main connecting hub BUT since much of Scotland-US was East Coast bound, JFK was a more sensible entry point to stop people doubling back. As EDI-JFK has grown, I would imagine ATL is coming on line to free up JFK for more point to point and filter connections over the ATL hub. It's not obscure anymore than DTW, it's a Delta superhub. Your rationale for wanting a larger Virgin A330 rather than a Delta 'frame makes some sense as the JV is "metal neutral" BUT there is a labour agreement with ALPA to keep Delta in the UK market on their own.
As for having flown a busy flight in deepest winter, remember loads don't reflect yields and that aircraft can well make more money elsewhere.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 12:23
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sk1schoolsam
I have been on this route this year in late Jan and the 763 nearly full, did an earlier post not indicated healthy load factors in Jan?
maybe slimmer in Feb / March when a 321LR might fit but I fly the route again Monday and again nearly full. The demand is there in April.

Separately I thought I had read DL had increased JFK to 7weekly in NW23. Must have been mistaken.
You are correct. DL did intend increasing to daily in W23. Flights were on sale. Something has changed, be it drop in demand or logistical issues.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 12:27
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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Amazing that people are absolutely losing their **** because Edinburgh has half a dozen US routes, almost willing the failure of some new routes.

Gobsmacking.

As for Atlanta
-93 million passengers a year
-5 parallel runways
- the world's busiest airport since 1998 (except one year 2020 covid).

Why shouldn't Scotland have a connection to this.

​​​ATL gives connections to Las Vegas, New Orleans, San Fransisco, LAX, as well as Georgia, Mex and Florida.

The route isn't for the regional market of Edinburgh, people travel from all over Scotland and North England to use these services.

Much the same as GLA-DXB isn't just used by the Glasgow populus but likely people from all over Scotland .

Manchester Airport not having new destinations is Manchester Airports fault, complain to them

Last edited by tictack67; 22nd Apr 2023 at 13:37.
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Old 22nd Apr 2023, 15:03
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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Ticktack67.....you earned my respect today......well said 👌
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Old 23rd Apr 2023, 12:33
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Originally Posted by Budfrey27
Ticktack67.....you earned my respect today......well said 👌
100% agree
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Old 24th Apr 2023, 12:41
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Originally Posted by Planeraz
You are correct. DL did intend increasing to daily in W23. Flights were on sale. Something has changed, be it drop in demand or logistical issues.
On my way to SFO via JFK with Delta today. Another really quick and smooth check in (no que it’s took literally a few mins) and boarding experience with Delta from EDI to JFK.
airport was busy but all lanes open at security so actually very efficient.
Lively, friendly crew, so far, once again a great start to the journey with Delta.
Hope United are just as good in June to ORD.
Yes I expect and hour at immigration in JFK but applying for Global Entry to minimise that in the future. I feel avoiding LHR is a win right now.

I really hope all 3 routes from EDI with Delta can be a success and that the W23 JFK reduction in early 24 is reversed.
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Old 25th Apr 2023, 18:55
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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American Airlines converting most of their seasonal European routes to year round. What a pity the PHL route was dropped. What possibly could have been for EDI.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230425-aanw23
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Old 25th Apr 2023, 21:22
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Originally Posted by Planeraz
American Airlines converting most of their seasonal European routes to year round. What a pity the PHL route was dropped. What possibly could have been for EDI.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230425-aanw23
Philadelphia Airport are currently trying to push American to relaunch most of the lost COVID routes, including Edinburgh and Manchester, in Summer 2024

If it isn’t 24 due to aircraft delivery delays it will certainly be 2025 when the A321s start coming online

The suicidal pre-emptive retirement of the 757s and A330s really screwed up their transatlantic network. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Edinburgh was scheduled to restart in 2021 alongside destinations such as Prague, Keflavik, Manchester although these aforementioned retirements jeopardised this plan

Source
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